Maybe the new mobo is G5 ready <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> , if P58 is right!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think so, it's just a better G4. My point is if they call the G4+ a G5, what do you do about the IBM power4 core that's coming out 6 months later? I don't think it makes sence to market 2 new chip techs 6 months apart. I don't think the G4+ is anything breath taking, just more of what we've wanted from a chip & mobo for a while now. The IBM baby will just be that much better.
I don't think so, it's just a better G4. My point is if they call the G4+ a G5, what do you do about the IBM power4 core that's coming out 6 months later? I don't think it makes sence to market 2 new chip techs 6 months apart. I don't think the G4+ is anything breath taking, just more of what we've wanted from a chip & mobo for a while now. The IBM baby will just be that much better.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good point but I imagine that the GPUL will not be called a G# at all. But something new. In light of this idea it seems more likely apple will just call the moto chip the G4+ an slap it in the current case.
There has been NO insider info on updated G4s (apart from the info attached to the bogus G5 @ MacWorld SF 2002 rumors). Motorola hasn't announced anything high-end since the 7455 (Apollo) @ MPF 2001. This applies to the 7500 (high end G5) too.
The 7500 was on the Moto roadmap, then pulled in November 2001.
I suspect that Motorola has abandoned the high-end market. No more G4. Only low-end cores.
I'll bet that Motorola is pressuring Apple to get an alternative chip to the G4, so Moto can stop producing it entirely. Say goodbye to Motorola.
There may more PowerPC producers soon. I've got no evidence for this, but with Motorola out of the high-end...
Who would want to become a PowerPC producer? Apple? AMD? Via?
Anyway, most probably the GPUL will begin to be used in Macs starting in 2003 H2. 2003 H1, we could be stuck with the same Apollo G4s. I mean, Moto could be making 130nm G4s NOW, but instead they chose to make 130nm G5s.
What are the naming possibilities for the GPUL Power Macs?
"Power Mac G5". What does that mean? A 5th Generation Power Mac. So even though it won't use a next-gen CPU, there could be a Power Mac G5.
"Power Mac GPUL". A Power Mac with a GPUL (or whatever IBM names it).
"Power Mac G4". The GPUL is still a 4th Gen PowerPC. So it makes sense that because it is so radically different from the G4 that Apple goes with the "Power Mac G5" monkier.
Maybe the Power Mac MDD will be the last El Capitan revision. Maybe the GPUL Professional Macs will be Cubes. Cubes with 10Gb Ethernet or a new Apple high-speed bus (Gigawire?). Stack hard drive, superdrive and or PCI modules on top of your Cube.
The Power Mac GPUL Cube has a stupidly long name. How about the XMac G1 (Generation 1 XMac)? Or maybe just an XMac.
<strong>Ok, G4 and high-end G5 development seems halted.
There has been NO insider info on updated G4s (apart from the info attached to the bogus G5 @ MacWorld SF 2002 rumors). Motorola hasn't announced anything high-end since the 7455 (Apollo) @ MPF 2001. This applies to the 7500 (high end G5) too.
The 7500 was on the Moto roadmap, then pulled in November 2001.
I suspect that Motorola has abandoned the high-end market. No more G4. Only low-end cores.
I'll bet that Motorola is pressuring Apple to get an alternative chip to the G4, so Moto can stop producing it entirely. Say goodbye to Motorola.
There may more PowerPC producers soon. I've got no evidence for this, but with Motorola out of the high-end...
Who would want to become a PowerPC producer? Apple? AMD? Via?
Anyway, most probably the GPUL will begin to be used in Macs starting in 2003 H2. 2003 H1, we could be stuck with the same Apollo G4s. I mean, Moto could be making 130nm G4s NOW, but instead they chose to make 130nm G5s.
What are the naming possibilities for the GPUL Power Macs?
"Power Mac G5". What does that mean? A 5th Generation Power Mac. So even though it won't use a next-gen CPU, there could be a Power Mac G5.
"Power Mac GPUL". A Power Mac with a GPUL (or whatever IBM names it).
"Power Mac G4". The GPUL is still a 4th Gen PowerPC. So it makes sense that because it is so radically different from the G4 that Apple goes with the "Power Mac G5" monkier.
Maybe the Power Mac MDD will be the last El Capitan revision. Maybe the GPUL Professional Macs will be Cubes. Cubes with 10Gb Ethernet or a new Apple high-speed bus (Gigawire?). Stack hard drive, superdrive and or PCI modules on top of your Cube.
The Power Mac GPUL Cube has a stupidly long name. How about the XMac G1 (Generation 1 XMac)? Or maybe just an XMac.
Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, no insider info posted on the net does not mean halted, just means no insider info on the net. The inside info I have is that Moto will have a G4+ with new mobo with faster FSB and possibly true DDR. Not sure the speed but I guess up to 1.4ghz.
I wouldn't say goodbye to Moto all together, they may continue the G4 with the iMac, eMac and PB unless Apple uses IBM's Sahara and it gets the VMX thing for altivec.
I don't think so, it's just a better G4. My point is if they call the G4+ a G5, what do you do about the IBM power4 core that's coming out 6 months later? I don't think it makes sence to market 2 new chip techs 6 months apart. I don't think the G4+ is anything breath taking, just more of what we've wanted from a chip & mobo for a while now. The IBM baby will just be that much better.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sure it makes perfect sense to introduce two new processors next year! Apple has two really old procs in its machines right now and the need for speed has hardly ever been so bad to keep up with the wintel world. Apple will need one new chip for the pro line plus a new one for the consumer line (the G3 is definitively dropping out of sight!). I bet my hat that Apple will start 2003 with a Motorola G5 in its new PowerMacs: "Look folks! Great new chip in great new machines! Finally, you guys get your G5!". Later in 2003 or early 2004, the PowerMac's processor will be replaced with the legendary IBM GPUL (maybe dubbed the "G6" or "X1" or what the hell those maketing weenies will prefer!) -- and the Motorola G5 will be used in consumer and mobile products (iMac, PowerBook). "Look folks! G5 power for a really low price and another incredible huge power boost for the pro section with our new G6!". The eMac and iBook will probably stay with the G4 for some more time to make a clear distinction beween super-cheap (eMac, iBook with G4), consumer/pro mobile (iMac/PowerBook with G5) and pro (PowerMac and XServe with GPUL). And... by the way; this is not the fist time a processor has a short life cycle in the pro boxes: The relatively new G3 was quite soon replaced by the G4 in 1999 (the white/blue G3 PowerMac had a life span of a mere 6 months!) and was then used further on in the consumer line (after its initial consumer introduction in the iMac 1998, of course).
I don't think so, it's just a better G4. My point is if they call the G4+ a G5, what do you do about the IBM power4 core that's coming out 6 months later? I don't think it makes sence to market 2 new chip techs 6 months apart. I don't think the G4+ is anything breath taking, just more of what we've wanted from a chip & mobo for a while now. The IBM baby will just be that much better.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple would never call a G4++ chip G5. G5 uses Rapid IO and is Book-E based.
If there is a G5 in March, the IBM chip takes another year.
My hopes are:
At MWSF:"Double announcement!" <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
GPUL profi line
G5 consumer line
G4 entry line
...dream a little dream... oh, a big one.
but Steve will give as G4s (1/ 1.25/ 1.5GHz) with true DDR-RAM support in March.
Apple would never call a G4++ chip G5. G5 uses Rapid IO and is Book-E based.
If there is a G5 in March, the IBM chip takes another year.
My hopes are:
At MWSF:"Double announcement!" <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
GPUL profi line
G5 consumer line
G4 entry line
...dream a little dream... oh, a big one.
but Steve will give as G4s (1/ 1.25/ 1.5GHz) with true DDR-RAM support in March.</strong><hr></blockquote>
IBM's baby WILL (should) be out next fall reguardless of Moto's G4 in jan/Feb. BOTH chips are due for release next year according to what I've been told and that's why I don't think Apple will release a G5 in Jan (Moto's G4++) and then a completely new power4 core in Sept.
[quote]And... by the way; this is not the fist time a processor has a short life cycle in the pro boxes: The relatively new G3 was quite soon replaced by the G4 in 1999 (the white/blue G3 PowerMac had a life span of a mere 6 months!) and was then used further on in the consumer line (after its initial consumer introduction in the iMac 1998, of course).
<hr></blockquote>
I don't think Apple will have a G3, G4, G5 and G6 all at the same time much less the G5 and G6 released the same year. Doesn't make sense to me. Also, the original G3 was flawed or at least limited and thus the G4 quickly replaced it. The G4++ due in Jan will not be flawed, far from it. It will be a completely redesigned mobo with faster FSB, DDR etc and will be fast. Also, it will put out a LOT of heat which is why El Capitan has those vents in the front. This G4 needs MAJOR ventilation as it was exploding in test boxes due to heat.
I don't think Apple will have a G3, G4, G5 and G6 all at the same time much less the G5 and G6 released the same year. Doesn't make sense to me. Also, the original G3 was flawed or at least limited and thus the G4 quickly replaced it. The G4++ due in Jan will not be flawed, far from it. It will be a completely redesigned mobo with faster FSB, DDR etc and will be fast. Also, it will put out a LOT of heat which is why El Capitan has those vents in the front. This G4 needs MAJOR ventilation as it was exploding in test boxes due to heat.</strong><hr></blockquote>
A completely redesigned mobo?
5 month after announcement <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Faster FSB? How fast?
True DDR-RAM support, thats important
Dual-Channel DDR will boost the G4s
6.4GB/s memory bandwidth
I want to buy one <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
Than it doesn't matter whether G4, G5 or G6 :cool:
"I don't think Apple will have a G3, G4, G5 and G6 all at the same time much less the G5 and G6 released the same year. Doesn't make sense to me. Also, the original G3 was flawed or at least limited and thus the G4 quickly replaced it. The G4++ due in Jan will not be flawed, far from it. It will be a completely redesigned mobo with faster FSB, DDR etc and will be fast. Also, it will put out a LOT of heat which is why El Capitan has those vents in the front. This G4 needs MAJOR ventilation as it was exploding in test boxes due to heat."
-----
Exploding in test boxes!! lol Thats just so funny. I can just see their faces! Come on Dorsal, come back and post about one exploding.
\tRedkid is making a lot of sense as far as I am concerned. The only place I disagree with him is in apple not calling the G4+ by a new name. But the more I think about it the more I am starting to agree with him. Same cases with new chips (that all the current models really need).
\tBut then...umm what about the PowerBook? They must be waiting till MWSF to upgrade it. Is it possible that they could make one of these G4+'s go into a PowerBook without it giving you third degree burns?
\tRedkid is right about the G4+ though and about the specs (higher than 1.4ghz though not in the MWSF release). And the GPUL seems certain in light of IBM posting that link. I mean IBM couldn't have said it better if they declared it them selves. So it seems that 2003 is the year of the apple...lol! Hey redkid one more thing: Thanks for helping my thread out with your valuable info. Actually you have all had good posts. But we have many more pages to go before we beat that IBM one( you know the one I speak of).
RAID will become more prevalent in standard PowerMac configurations with the new systems due out in January, according to reliable Apple sources. The high-end system will come standard with two high-performance disk drives, 7200RPM ATA-133 disks with 4-8MB of cache memory, and will be formatted with RAID support standard. Not only will this improve Apple's image as a high-performance platform out of the box, but it will also drive the justification of Apple's move to no longer support the booting of OS 9 on these systems - after all, volumes built with Apple's RAID driver do not mount properly when booted under OS 9. Classic functionality will be unaffected, of course....
--------------
Seems as if apple is planing on having everything dual in these new PowerMacs. Dual CPUs, Dual CD drives,and Dual HDs. All of this along with the motorola G5 will make for some fast shit. LOL I think the duals are mainly here to stay. At least on the middle and upper end models.
Comments
<strong>
Maybe the new mobo is G5 ready <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> , if P58 is right!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think so, it's just a better G4. My point is if they call the G4+ a G5, what do you do about the IBM power4 core that's coming out 6 months later? I don't think it makes sence to market 2 new chip techs 6 months apart. I don't think the G4+ is anything breath taking, just more of what we've wanted from a chip & mobo for a while now. The IBM baby will just be that much better.
<strong>
I don't think so, it's just a better G4. My point is if they call the G4+ a G5, what do you do about the IBM power4 core that's coming out 6 months later? I don't think it makes sence to market 2 new chip techs 6 months apart. I don't think the G4+ is anything breath taking, just more of what we've wanted from a chip & mobo for a while now. The IBM baby will just be that much better.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good point but I imagine that the GPUL will not be called a G# at all. But something new. In light of this idea it seems more likely apple will just call the moto chip the G4+ an slap it in the current case.
There has been NO insider info on updated G4s (apart from the info attached to the bogus G5 @ MacWorld SF 2002 rumors). Motorola hasn't announced anything high-end since the 7455 (Apollo) @ MPF 2001. This applies to the 7500 (high end G5) too.
The 7500 was on the Moto roadmap, then pulled in November 2001.
I suspect that Motorola has abandoned the high-end market. No more G4. Only low-end cores.
I'll bet that Motorola is pressuring Apple to get an alternative chip to the G4, so Moto can stop producing it entirely. Say goodbye to Motorola.
There may more PowerPC producers soon. I've got no evidence for this, but with Motorola out of the high-end...
Who would want to become a PowerPC producer? Apple? AMD? Via?
Anyway, most probably the GPUL will begin to be used in Macs starting in 2003 H2. 2003 H1, we could be stuck with the same Apollo G4s. I mean, Moto could be making 130nm G4s NOW, but instead they chose to make 130nm G5s.
What are the naming possibilities for the GPUL Power Macs?
"Power Mac G5". What does that mean? A 5th Generation Power Mac. So even though it won't use a next-gen CPU, there could be a Power Mac G5.
"Power Mac GPUL". A Power Mac with a GPUL (or whatever IBM names it).
"Power Mac G4". The GPUL is still a 4th Gen PowerPC. So it makes sense that because it is so radically different from the G4 that Apple goes with the "Power Mac G5" monkier.
Maybe the Power Mac MDD will be the last El Capitan revision. Maybe the GPUL Professional Macs will be Cubes. Cubes with 10Gb Ethernet or a new Apple high-speed bus (Gigawire?). Stack hard drive, superdrive and or PCI modules on top of your Cube.
The Power Mac GPUL Cube has a stupidly long name. How about the XMac G1 (Generation 1 XMac)? Or maybe just an XMac.
Barto
<strong>Ok, G4 and high-end G5 development seems halted.
There has been NO insider info on updated G4s (apart from the info attached to the bogus G5 @ MacWorld SF 2002 rumors). Motorola hasn't announced anything high-end since the 7455 (Apollo) @ MPF 2001. This applies to the 7500 (high end G5) too.
The 7500 was on the Moto roadmap, then pulled in November 2001.
I suspect that Motorola has abandoned the high-end market. No more G4. Only low-end cores.
I'll bet that Motorola is pressuring Apple to get an alternative chip to the G4, so Moto can stop producing it entirely. Say goodbye to Motorola.
There may more PowerPC producers soon. I've got no evidence for this, but with Motorola out of the high-end...
Who would want to become a PowerPC producer? Apple? AMD? Via?
Anyway, most probably the GPUL will begin to be used in Macs starting in 2003 H2. 2003 H1, we could be stuck with the same Apollo G4s. I mean, Moto could be making 130nm G4s NOW, but instead they chose to make 130nm G5s.
What are the naming possibilities for the GPUL Power Macs?
"Power Mac G5". What does that mean? A 5th Generation Power Mac. So even though it won't use a next-gen CPU, there could be a Power Mac G5.
"Power Mac GPUL". A Power Mac with a GPUL (or whatever IBM names it).
"Power Mac G4". The GPUL is still a 4th Gen PowerPC. So it makes sense that because it is so radically different from the G4 that Apple goes with the "Power Mac G5" monkier.
Maybe the Power Mac MDD will be the last El Capitan revision. Maybe the GPUL Professional Macs will be Cubes. Cubes with 10Gb Ethernet or a new Apple high-speed bus (Gigawire?). Stack hard drive, superdrive and or PCI modules on top of your Cube.
The Power Mac GPUL Cube has a stupidly long name. How about the XMac G1 (Generation 1 XMac)? Or maybe just an XMac.
Barto</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, no insider info posted on the net does not mean halted, just means no insider info on the net. The inside info I have is that Moto will have a G4+ with new mobo with faster FSB and possibly true DDR. Not sure the speed but I guess up to 1.4ghz.
I wouldn't say goodbye to Moto all together, they may continue the G4 with the iMac, eMac and PB unless Apple uses IBM's Sahara and it gets the VMX thing for altivec.
(as the expressions "i++" is equivalent to "i=i+1" in C).
How about just PowerMac? It won't be a cube because you can't add more drives to it easily.
<strong>
I don't think so, it's just a better G4. My point is if they call the G4+ a G5, what do you do about the IBM power4 core that's coming out 6 months later? I don't think it makes sence to market 2 new chip techs 6 months apart. I don't think the G4+ is anything breath taking, just more of what we've wanted from a chip & mobo for a while now. The IBM baby will just be that much better.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sure it makes perfect sense to introduce two new processors next year! Apple has two really old procs in its machines right now and the need for speed has hardly ever been so bad to keep up with the wintel world. Apple will need one new chip for the pro line plus a new one for the consumer line (the G3 is definitively dropping out of sight!). I bet my hat that Apple will start 2003 with a Motorola G5 in its new PowerMacs: "Look folks! Great new chip in great new machines! Finally, you guys get your G5!". Later in 2003 or early 2004, the PowerMac's processor will be replaced with the legendary IBM GPUL (maybe dubbed the "G6" or "X1" or what the hell those maketing weenies will prefer!) -- and the Motorola G5 will be used in consumer and mobile products (iMac, PowerBook). "Look folks! G5 power for a really low price and another incredible huge power boost for the pro section with our new G6!". The eMac and iBook will probably stay with the G4 for some more time to make a clear distinction beween super-cheap (eMac, iBook with G4), consumer/pro mobile (iMac/PowerBook with G5) and pro (PowerMac and XServe with GPUL). And... by the way; this is not the fist time a processor has a short life cycle in the pro boxes: The relatively new G3 was quite soon replaced by the G4 in 1999 (the white/blue G3 PowerMac had a life span of a mere 6 months!) and was then used further on in the consumer line (after its initial consumer introduction in the iMac 1998, of course).
Motorola now refers to the model number, and calls them all "G4-class CPUs".
Barto
<strong>
I don't think so, it's just a better G4. My point is if they call the G4+ a G5, what do you do about the IBM power4 core that's coming out 6 months later? I don't think it makes sence to market 2 new chip techs 6 months apart. I don't think the G4+ is anything breath taking, just more of what we've wanted from a chip & mobo for a while now. The IBM baby will just be that much better.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple would never call a G4++ chip G5. G5 uses Rapid IO and is Book-E based.
If there is a G5 in March, the IBM chip takes another year.
My hopes are:
At MWSF:"Double announcement!" <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
GPUL profi line
G5 consumer line
G4 entry line
...dream a little dream... oh, a big one.
but Steve will give as G4s (1/ 1.25/ 1.5GHz) with true DDR-RAM support in March.
<strong>
Apple would never call a G4++ chip G5. G5 uses Rapid IO and is Book-E based.
If there is a G5 in March, the IBM chip takes another year.
My hopes are:
At MWSF:"Double announcement!" <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
GPUL profi line
G5 consumer line
G4 entry line
...dream a little dream... oh, a big one.
but Steve will give as G4s (1/ 1.25/ 1.5GHz) with true DDR-RAM support in March.</strong><hr></blockquote>
IBM's baby WILL (should) be out next fall reguardless of Moto's G4 in jan/Feb. BOTH chips are due for release next year according to what I've been told and that's why I don't think Apple will release a G5 in Jan (Moto's G4++) and then a completely new power4 core in Sept.
[quote]And... by the way; this is not the fist time a processor has a short life cycle in the pro boxes: The relatively new G3 was quite soon replaced by the G4 in 1999 (the white/blue G3 PowerMac had a life span of a mere 6 months!) and was then used further on in the consumer line (after its initial consumer introduction in the iMac 1998, of course).
<hr></blockquote>
I don't think Apple will have a G3, G4, G5 and G6 all at the same time much less the G5 and G6 released the same year. Doesn't make sense to me. Also, the original G3 was flawed or at least limited and thus the G4 quickly replaced it. The G4++ due in Jan will not be flawed, far from it. It will be a completely redesigned mobo with faster FSB, DDR etc and will be fast. Also, it will put out a LOT of heat which is why El Capitan has those vents in the front. This G4 needs MAJOR ventilation as it was exploding in test boxes due to heat.
<strong>
I don't think Apple will have a G3, G4, G5 and G6 all at the same time much less the G5 and G6 released the same year. Doesn't make sense to me. Also, the original G3 was flawed or at least limited and thus the G4 quickly replaced it. The G4++ due in Jan will not be flawed, far from it. It will be a completely redesigned mobo with faster FSB, DDR etc and will be fast. Also, it will put out a LOT of heat which is why El Capitan has those vents in the front. This G4 needs MAJOR ventilation as it was exploding in test boxes due to heat.</strong><hr></blockquote>
A completely redesigned mobo?
5 month after announcement <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Faster FSB? How fast?
True DDR-RAM support, thats important
Dual-Channel DDR will boost the G4s
6.4GB/s memory bandwidth
I want to buy one <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
Than it doesn't matter whether G4, G5 or G6 :cool:
"I don't think Apple will have a G3, G4, G5 and G6 all at the same time much less the G5 and G6 released the same year. Doesn't make sense to me. Also, the original G3 was flawed or at least limited and thus the G4 quickly replaced it. The G4++ due in Jan will not be flawed, far from it. It will be a completely redesigned mobo with faster FSB, DDR etc and will be fast. Also, it will put out a LOT of heat which is why El Capitan has those vents in the front. This G4 needs MAJOR ventilation as it was exploding in test boxes due to heat."
-----
Exploding in test boxes!! lol Thats just so funny. I can just see their faces! Come on Dorsal, come back and post about one exploding.
\tRedkid is making a lot of sense as far as I am concerned. The only place I disagree with him is in apple not calling the G4+ by a new name. But the more I think about it the more I am starting to agree with him. Same cases with new chips (that all the current models really need).
\tBut then...umm what about the PowerBook? They must be waiting till MWSF to upgrade it. Is it possible that they could make one of these G4+'s go into a PowerBook without it giving you third degree burns?
\tRedkid is right about the G4+ though and about the specs (higher than 1.4ghz though not in the MWSF release). And the GPUL seems certain in light of IBM posting that link. I mean IBM couldn't have said it better if they declared it them selves. So it seems that 2003 is the year of the apple...lol! Hey redkid one more thing: Thanks for helping my thread out with your valuable info. Actually you have all had good posts. But we have many more pages to go before we beat that IBM one( you know the one I speak of).
[ 10-01-2002: Message edited by: Algol ]</p>
All I care is a real powerful machine that deserves to wear the word "POWER"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RAID will become more prevalent in standard PowerMac configurations with the new systems due out in January, according to reliable Apple sources. The high-end system will come standard with two high-performance disk drives, 7200RPM ATA-133 disks with 4-8MB of cache memory, and will be formatted with RAID support standard. Not only will this improve Apple's image as a high-performance platform out of the box, but it will also drive the justification of Apple's move to no longer support the booting of OS 9 on these systems - after all, volumes built with Apple's RAID driver do not mount properly when booted under OS 9. Classic functionality will be unaffected, of course....
--------------
Seems as if apple is planing on having everything dual in these new PowerMacs. Dual CPUs, Dual CD drives,and Dual HDs. All of this along with the motorola G5 will make for some fast shit. LOL I think the duals are mainly here to stay. At least on the middle and upper end models.
All I care is a real powerful machine that deserves to wear the word "POWER"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Amen.
Lemon Bon Bon