Expected apple lineup using 970

vr6vr6
Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
I'm proposing this thread not discuss the 970 chip itself, but the systems we expect Apple to release using the chip and when we expect them.



Let me begin.



There are two big variables driving the outcome:

1) IBM's pricing of the chip to Apple

2) Apple's trade-off of trying to milk innovators and early adopters for as much cash as possible vs. catching up to Wintel computers across the board.



In the most optimistic scenario, the chip is cheap and Apple wants to rapidly grow market share so within a year we see:



PowerMac lineup- All dual 970s, 1.2GHz, 1.5GHz and 1.8GHz



PowerBook 970 - 1.0GHz and 1.2GHz



iMac 970 - single CPU, 1.2GHz and 1.5GHz



iBook - I got no idea where they're taking this one.



In the most pessimistic scenario, IBM wants to milk early adopters and so does Apple, so all we get within 12 months using the 970 is a new tower in configurations of single 1.2GHz, single 1.8GHz and dual 1.8GHz at outrageously high prices.



PS Moderators, please don't lock this thread, the other one is about the performance of the new chip, not about what systems Apple might release.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 75
    ompusompus Posts: 163member
    I don't want an All-in-one.

    I won't need and probably can't afford a dual 970.

    I hope to see a Basic Box, i.e., no flashy case, with a single 1.2 Ghz 970 priced competively with a Dell 2.53 Ghz p4.
  • Reply 2 of 75
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    [quote]Originally posted by Ompus:

    <strong>I don't want an All-in-one.

    I won't need and probably can't afford a dual 970.

    I hope to see a Basic Box, i.e., no flashy case, with a single 1.2 Ghz 970 priced competively with a Dell 2.53 Ghz p4.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    This isn't gonna happen... Apple has NEVER worked that way and if you are waiting for them to do it now I have a feeling you are gonna (again) be disapointed.



    Apple doesn't do 'cheap' and don't do 'let me buy all the parts myself' Apple charges MORE for their system because of the extras you get with the OS.



    Dell can do it cause they don't do dick.



    Apple can't - They write their own OS + Apps if you want the OS and you want the Apps you gotta buy the hardware the way they sell it.



    Just to save time...



    You are gonna say: Well I don't want the 'extras' and I don't wanna pay for em!



    Well given the choice, EVERYONE (mostly) would say the same thing just to pinch a few buck off the hardware cost (human nature what it is) and then what are we left with? A company with cheap hardware but an OS that is far less than it is today.



    You can't have it both ways... Cheap with DELL and Windows or roll your own unix or 1st class (at a premium) with Apple and OS X.



    Dave



    [ 10-17-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
  • Reply 3 of 75
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    Good topic, now that we know about the IBM 970 PPC. I believe only the PowerMac family will have the 970 while it is on the 130 nanometer process. Once it goes to 90 nanometers and the power drops, it will gradually be introduced into other Macs.



    Regarding PowerMacs, I think the 970 will debut in the present case, with maybe a few cosmetic changes. Many are hoping for a completely re-styled case for the 64 bit PPC, but it does not make sense. What is holding back sales is the lack of high performance PPC, so these PowerMacs will sell like hot cakes with today's case. We are in an economic downturn too. Why put development dollars into something that will not improve sales?
  • Reply 4 of 75
    yevgenyyevgeny Posts: 1,148member
    It all depends on chip yeilds. Lots of chips means that you can do dual processors on all the pro machines. Few chips means no TiBook's or iMac's with the new chip (and maybe no duals except on the top of the line pro machine). Given that the 970 only has 9 million transistors than a P4, I would expect yeilds to be good. Certainly better than Itanium chips (which have 170 million more transistors).



    Of course, to use this chip you need a new motherboard. I don't see Apple releasing three new motherboards at once (Pro, TiBook, iMac). I can see pro, then TiBook, then iMac.
  • Reply 5 of 75
    mrmistermrmister Posts: 1,095member
    I think we may see PBs with the .13 micron build, because of the low power requirements--remember, though there are startup costs Apple sells a lot of PowerBooks when they are fast. They'll want one out the door as soon as they can handle it.
  • Reply 6 of 75
    IBM is all the rage right now, but motorola is still an Apple CPU provider, so lets assume motorola comes out with the ppc 8500, right.

    and IBM the ppc 970, okay.

    then I would imagine someting like this

    powermacs

    single 8500 @ 1.25,

    dual 970 @ 1.5

    dual 970 @1.8

    Power books:

    single 8500 @800,

    single 8500 @ 1,

    single 8500 @ 1.25

    iMacs:

    single [email protected] 800

    single 8500 @ 1

    single 970 @ 1.5

    ibooks

    current day g4s(7450? is it) all single

    @ 867,1, and 1.25



    this is assuming the mysterious 8500 that we heard so much about back in the day, is a reality, is more powerful than current g4s and is still intended to be used.



    there would probably have to be a new naming scheme of sorts

    to show that the power books are more powerful than the ibooks at the same clock rate and to keep things understandable to the clueless mac user base
  • Reply 7 of 75
    addisonaddison Posts: 1,185member
    Apple is going to find it difficult to adopt this chip into just one range ie PM's. The performance gap is going to kill the other products unless the MPC8500 or something similar is available. So the answer as far as I am concerned is that until we know more about the 8500 (on/off?) it is just too difficult to make any predictions.
  • Reply 8 of 75
    mrmistermrmister Posts: 1,095member
    The 8500 can come out of my a$$, frankly speaking...I can't believe that people are still waiting for that, and based on what? What? Crappy half-baked rumors.



    MAYBE we get a G4 with some marginal improvements. And that's only a maybe.



    8500. Feh!
  • Reply 9 of 75
    addisonaddison Posts: 1,185member
    I agree except that I don't think the 970 is going to be cheap enough at first to filter throught the whole range. Therefor what are Apple going to do. If ther PM's step up to the 970, the others are going to just look daft.
  • Reply 10 of 75
    vr6vr6 Posts: 77member
    [quote]Originally posted by mrmister:

    <strong>



    8500. Feh!</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I couldn't agree more. There is no way we're going to see an 8500 in an Apple.



    although I don't even believe a desktop capable 8xxx series CPU is being designed by MOT, why would apple bother to create a motherboard for it knowing full well it was moving to IBM. Face it MOT lovers, IBM is the future. MOT might not even be in the CPU business by year end.
  • Reply 11 of 75
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    Well early info has the wattage of a single 1.8 at like 40 watts, duals would be upwards to 60-80watts. I just don't see that happening. The initial speeds were 1.4 and 1.8gzh, they miht underclock the 1.8 to get a 1.6ghz, otherwise they may do a Moto as the low end. Also, Moto will release a new G4 with new mobo in jan (unless things change) which would probably be up to 1.4ghz.



    Dual 1.4ghz G4

    Single 1.6ghz 970

    Single 1.8ghz 970

    or

    Single 1.4ghz 970

    Single 1.6ghz 970

    Single 18ghz 970





    I seriously doubt the PB will get the 970 for at least a year. The PB will get the 1.ghz, and the 1.2ghz G4 first. That's a year of speed bumps (1 every 6 months.) Depending on chip prices, the 970 could make the PB a 4K laptop, so I don't see 970 in it for awhile.



    iMacs and eMacs stay with G4s, moto still has a new G4 coming out in Jan, giving more time for it in the consumer machines.
  • Reply 12 of 75
    shawkshawk Posts: 116member
    An amusing option for Apple might be to release towers based on the 970 as soon as a few samples are available.



    A quad 1.8Ghz tower might cost $30,000 in January and $6,000 in June. So what.



    If Apple wants to gain mind share and shut up CPU speed junkies, Apple should give us some very expensive state of the art today.



    It's our money, Steve. Help us spend it.
  • Reply 13 of 75
    shawkshawk Posts: 116member
    An amusing option for Apple might be to release towers based on the 970 as soon as a few samples are available.



    A quad 1.8Ghz tower might cost $30,000 in January and $6,000 in June. So what.



    If Apple wants to gain mind share and shut up CPU speed junkies, Apple should give us some very expensive state of the art today.



    It's our money, Steve. Help us spend it.
  • Reply 14 of 75
    mrmistermrmister Posts: 1,095member
    The PowerMac will go all PPC970 at once--since the MB will need to be rebuilt, new busses, etc. it makes no sense for the low-end to be a G4 while the high-end is the PPC970...bad for margins, bad for branding, just bad.
  • Reply 15 of 75
    mrmistermrmister Posts: 1,095member
    [quote] A quad 1.8Ghz tower might cost $30,000 in January and $6,000 in June. So what. <hr></blockquote>



    I get what you are going for, but even at 30k you'd be getting this machine that hadn't even gone through QA--it'd be alphaware. Gaak.



    It's like paying someone extra cash for the honor of using a car that runs really poorly, but you are driving it first.
  • Reply 16 of 75
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    [quote]Originally posted by Wrong Robust:

    <strong>IBM is all the rage right now, but motorola is still an Apple CPU provider, so lets assume motorola comes out with the ppc 8500, right.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    No, wrong. The PPC 8540 is already out. 8xxx PPCs are communication processors. 75xx were supposed to be the desktop G5s, but they're not going to be ever released.
  • Reply 17 of 75
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    [quote]Originally posted by mrmister:

    <strong>The PowerMac will go all PPC970 at once--since the MB will need to be rebuilt, new busses, etc. it makes no sense for the low-end to be a G4 while the high-end is the PPC970...bad for margins, bad for branding, just bad.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    While I agree... Apple does has a bit of a probem given the 970. Apple would indeed have issues with trying to sell consumer grade stuff with todays CPUs when the pro stuff is just so far advanced. Unless they do a very slow move to the 970 where it only goes into the ultra-top end and slowly moves down the food chain and I don't think Apple or IBM would care too much for that. So yea a one fell swoop would be best but brings up problems of its own...



    When if ever has Apple done a clean sweep of their entire product line in one fell swoop? Never I think.. Hmmm... nope not even with the move to the PPC. Why? Well the cost and effort (R&D) to do a major bump on a single line is costly enough but to do all the lines at the same time... Sheech it would be a nightmare.



    Maybe it's time to re-eval the line...



    PowerMac

    iMac

    eMac



    TIBook

    iBook



    It could make sence if they cut some of the current lines..



    iMac and eMac well either the eMac stays with the G4 or it's gonna have to go. TIBook and iBook maybe it's time to have a merger or maybe the iBook will stay G3 remember a move to G4 would still mean more R&D so if they were to do that they might as well move it to the 970 as well.



    So if any combination of the above happens we now have.



    PowerMac

    iMac

    TIBook



    Okay that's a little better now either you'd still have the eMac and iBook (stuck with their current cpu family - better Mhz tho) or the eMac and iBook go away. If the iBook does go away then the TIBook would have to have some changes to 'middle of the road' the price to fit both sets of users and have a small and large screen version.



    Could they rev all 3 lines at once? Yea I guess it's possible and very exciting to think about but I'm still not sure I buy it.



    Maybe someone could have to look at Apple's R&D budget over the past 5 to 7 quarters and see if we see any strange things (like spikes that are larger than normal). It could tell us something (maybe).



    Dave



    [ 10-17-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
  • Reply 18 of 75
    vr6vr6 Posts: 77member
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by DaveGee:

    [QB]

    Well the cost and effort (R&D) to do a major bump on a single line is costly enough but to do all the lines at the same time... Sheech it would be a nightmare.



    QUOTE]



    Maybe I'm being naive, but in all honesty the iMac, eMac and TiBook can all have the exact same motherboard, thereby reducing R&D costs. It's the form factor rather than performance that's the difference between these current offerings right now.

    They all offer 800MHz G4 chips on a small motherboard with similar video cards, maximum ram, number and type of drives, firewire, usb, etc.



    If I'm way off, please let me down easy and don't call me an idiot, I'm just trying to think.
  • Reply 19 of 75
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    If you ask me IBM will be supplying the processor and the main controller. And unlike vr6, you CAN call me an idiot for thinking so
  • Reply 20 of 75
    yevgenyyevgeny Posts: 1,148member
    Once again, but this time with passion:



    Lineup will be determined by:



    [code]

    YIELDS YIELDS YIELDS YIELDS

    YIELDS YIELDS YIELDS YIELDS

    YIELDS YIELDS YIELDS YEILDS

    YIELDS YIELDS YEILDS YIELDS

    </pre><hr></blockquote>



    Chip yields are all what will determine dual vs. single CPU as well as speed. If Apple has enough chips to make the whole lineup duals, then they will go duals and offer machines that can crush a P4 at a premium price.
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