So! No WMD then!

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Donny says that maybe Saddam got rid of them all before the war.



Hi! I'm Donny! I can say this stuff now cuz we won and America doesn't care any more!



Wolfowitz says the claims were made for beaurocratic reasons anyway.



Hi! I'm Paul! I lie to Americans and they like it!



The "Saddam can WMD in 45 mins" came from Downing Steet against the will of the intelligence agency.



Hi! We're the UK government! How high should we jump Donny?



Only Tony is still sticking to the "they'll find um" line.



WE WERE LIED TO and that's a fact ... and I find it amazing that some of you lot seem really happy about it.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 24
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,937member
    Except that they just confirmed the two trailers found were bioweapons trailers.



    http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercuryne...aq/5961939.htm
  • Reply 2 of 24
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Harald

    WE WERE LIED TO and that's a fact ... and I find it amazing that some of you lot seem really happy about it.



    hmm... a government lying to us? You don't say! Never!



    (I'm not disputing you. I'm just adding a useless comment, like, "Dog bites man!")
  • Reply 3 of 24
    aquafireaquafire Posts: 2,758member
    You make me laugh..

    your so puffed up about them NOT being found..but who said anything about a there being a time limit on the search........Iraq is a big country.



    And if & when they do find such weapons..?



    You'll be the first to denounce the find...saying that they were "planted " by the CIA or Tony Blair's mum..

    Whatever....



    Of course they're out there and as real as the Tooth-fairy.Father Christmas, Easter Bunny, Jack Frost and many more to numerous to name.

  • Reply 4 of 24
    ghost_user_nameghost_user_name Posts: 22,667member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    Except that they just confirmed the two trailers found were bioweapons trailers.



    http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercuryne...aq/5961939.htm




    Quote:

    "U.S. intelligence officials said Wednesday that although they had no absolute proof, they were convinced that two trailers seized in Iraq by coalition forces were intended to be mobile biological-weapons laboratories."



    I swear. Aliens are living among us. No I can´t prove it but I just know they are.
  • Reply 5 of 24
    ghost_user_nameghost_user_name Posts: 22,667member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights

    hmm... a government lying to us? You don't say! Never!



    (I'm not disputing you. I'm just adding a useless comment, like, "Dog bites man!")




    What a great foundation to build democracy on.
  • Reply 6 of 24
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    Except that they just confirmed the two trailers found were bioweapons trailers.



    http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercuryne...aq/5961939.htm




    Except that they 'just' confirmed that two weeks ago, and besides there wasn't a trace of anything toxic found anywhere on them.



    I blame the incompetent UN inspectors who couldn't find their own feet if they were on fire, especially that pro-Saddam scumbag Hans Blix who not only helped Saddam to hide his WMD so well that the perfectly competent go-gettum 'Coalition' inspectors couldn't find them but (probably) licked those trailers clean and filled a bag with spit and nerve agent which he intends to use on the NY Subway.



    I remember some people hereabouts being particularly vociferous about the incompetence of the UN inspectors.



    You look particularly stupid now. Sorry, but you do.
  • Reply 7 of 24
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Anders the White

    What a great foundation to build democracy on.



    I was talking about governments in general, eh? ( <- Canadian influence from college.)



    The principles that most governments are founded on are pretty good. It's the people running the place that leaves much to be desired, which is the complaint of many people, such as Harald, I suppose. Of course, theoretically, communism is probably good, too, if the right people (like ME!) were in charge.



    But I'm sure none of the Roman consuls/emperors ever lied. Same with the senators. And the lobbyists.
  • Reply 8 of 24
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    Except that they just confirmed the two trailers found were bioweapons trailers.



    http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercuryne...aq/5961939.htm



    Do you ever stop?



    1. UN has already said that there were trailers used for many other purposes.



    Quote:

    Prior to the invasion, the Iraqis had conceded that they did in fact have mobile labs, but insisted that they were not used for the development of weapons. The mobile labs, the Iraqis had contended, were used for food analysis for disease outbreaks, mobile field hospitals, a military field bakery, food and medicine refrigeration trucks, a mobile military morgue and mobile ice making trucks. According to Ewen Buchanan, spokesman for the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission, inspectors had examined several of mobile labs and had concluded, ?The outline and characteristics of these trucks that we inspected were all consistent with the declared purposes.?



    From abc news via ccr



    Furthermore, it would make no sense for the trailer to be scrubbed but not demolished with explosives or otherwise. If they were 'scrubbed' to avoid US troops locating any bio weapons, they would have been dismantled.



    Note that they are not even claiming that it is definitive, which would make no sense either.



    Last, and perhaps most importantly, why would any state put all of their efforts into bio weapons?!?!?! Bio weapons are hardly useful! If Iraq had a weapons program it would be a chemical one, not a miniscule bio one.



    Do you ever ****ing think, sdw?



    Quote:

    Originally posted by aquafire

    but who said anything about a there being a time limit on the search



    Hi drone!



    The whole point is that



    a) there was no large or small scale weapons program. Chemical plants are not the size of pocketwatches.

    and

    b) if Saddam had these weapons (which anyone who actually studied it from the beginning knew he didn't) he didn't use them even when being ousted from power, and therefore was not a threat to the US.



    There was possibly 500 tons of mustard gas (though probably not, if you look at why it was suspected) and some degraded (and therefore useless) g-agents. This is the only dangerous stuff the US ever claimed Iraq had, though they trumpted it up so that dipshits that didn't know what they were referring to would go, 'WMD, WMD, WMD' as they followed blindly.



    OK, they did claim Iraq was going to make nuclear weapons, though that claim entailed citing nonexistent UN reports and fabricated documents.
  • Reply 9 of 24
    Quote:

    Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights

    I was talking about governments in general, eh? ( <- Canadian influence from college.)



    The principles that most governments are founded on are pretty good. It's the people running the place that leaves much to be desired, which is the complaint of many people, such as Harald, I suppose. Of course, theoretically, communism is probably good, too, if the right people (like ME!) were in charge.



    But I'm sure none of the Roman consuls/emperors ever lied. Same with the senators. And the lobbyists.




    Again this "but the others do it tooo (whaaaaaa)"



    Do you really think its desirable that the administration was lying to start the war? Or is it something that should be pointed out and heavily critisied every time it occurs?
  • Reply 10 of 24
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    Quote:

    Bio weapons are hardly useful! If Iraq had a weapons program it would be a chemical one, not a miniscule bio one.



    aren't chemical weapons the least effective and bulkiest of the three? (chem, bio, nuke)



    although i had to laugh at the idea of a mobile, million dollar ice maker.
  • Reply 11 of 24
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    aren't chemical weapons the least effective and bulkiest of the three? (chem, bio, nuke)



    You must be kidding. Go to school.

    Quote:

    although i had to laugh at the idea of a mobile, million dollar ice maker.



    maybe you missed this



    Quote:

    inspectors had examined several of mobile labs and had concluded, ?The outline and characteristics of these trucks that we inspected were all consistent with the declared purposes.?



    Maybe you also missed the fact that the mobile weapons lab was just an theory that UNSCOM thought up in the 90's that, though it was never backed by evidence, the US turned into a boogyman.



    Not that you've ever posted anything that stood up to scrutiny. Doesn't it bother you that your whole world view is like eternal Opposite Day?
  • Reply 12 of 24
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    what a rude little boy.
  • Reply 13 of 24
    Quote:

    Originally posted by aquafire

    ..but who said anything about a there being a time limit on the search........Iraq is a big country.



    The UN inspectors wanted more time and they were incompetent, useless bastards who couldn't find their own arseholes if their heads were stuck up them. The US and Tony Blair couldn't give the inspectors any more than four months to avoid a war.



    Now the US can't find any weapons and all of a sudden it doesn't matter how long their inspectors take?



    Ah. That'll be hypocrisy.
  • Reply 14 of 24
    enaena Posts: 667member
    Then what were the weapons inspector whining about---even during the Clinton administration? Why the minders in-country? Why not let the inspector run loose?



    With about three to six months of lead time---I think you could get rid of almost anything---thank you France, Germany.



    All sorts of things are possible here---and the various strategies are obvious. It's a little odd that the simplest scenario (Bush---bad, lie to start war---ugh!!) is the one being preached here. This is not a simple situation, billions of Euros and Rubles are at stake---along with the power players of the region.



    If the weapons went to Syria, and they knew that we knew they had them---even some of them, then certain people might be conducive to being helpful. I don't think it would come as a complete surprise that something like this might happen.
  • Reply 15 of 24
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    Quote:

    You must be kidding. Go to school.



    WOMD school? or was it a course you took on terrorist weapons?



    if you have links to show how chemical weapons are more effective and less bulky than bio weapons, link away. i'm more than happy to read it.



    as for the mobile labs. if you think Iraq would spend $1 million on a mobile ice maker.......
  • Reply 16 of 24
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes



    as for the mobile labs. if you think Iraq would spend $1 million on a mobile ice maker.......



    Whell, we know they did have mobile labs for "for food analysis for disease outbreaks, mobile field hospitals, a military field bakery, food and medicine refrigeration trucks, a mobile military morgue and mobile ice making trucks," so my thinking is in line with reality.



    Your BS is along the lines of getting hit in the head with a brick and saying "well, if you think I just got hit in the head with a brick..."
  • Reply 17 of 24
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ena





    If the weapons went to Syria,



    Which they didn't. That story originated at debka, the same place that spread the sci-fi story of bunkers under the sand that move by remote control and the hidden city under baghdad.



    Here's a hint: do some real research. then actually think about it.
  • Reply 18 of 24
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by aquafire

    You make me laugh..

    your so puffed up about them NOT being found..but who said anything about a there being a time limit on the search........Iraq is a big country.




    YEAH!!! Give the inspections of these facilities more time!!! Let the people put in charge of finding these weapons do their job without the burden of a time limit...



    oh wait, i thought we were talking about the pre-war UN WEAPONS INSPECTORS. guess not. :
  • Reply 19 of 24
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    well, i went to WOMD school, or the closest thing i could find .



    How stuff works: WOMD



    the internet rules sometimes.



    in any case, from the pretty table there we can see that it takes much less bio agent to kill someone than any of the chemical agents.



    so why would they focus on chemical weapons again?



    and why would they have a million dollar mobile icemaker? i know it was called that, but that doesn't mean it's true.
  • Reply 20 of 24
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    I don't understand Saddam Hussein's behavior, then. Why didn't he just open everything up? Ego? He wanted to defy the US just to look tough, even though it meant his defeat? It doesn't make sense, gievn his historical emphais on survival.
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