The better question is will there be a 20" iMac and will (should?) the 15" be dropped.
Nope. Push that entry iMac2 further down the ladder to get Switchers on the bottom rung and climbing.
A 20 inch iMac. Sure. Why not? I've seen a 19 inch PC LCD on a swivel 'arm' and it worked okay. No reason they can't hook up a 20 inch. It would be space saving for print and office folks.
If there's another (gggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrroooooooan) G4 bump to the iMac...well...it's a sandbagger (complete with the SAME Geforce 4MX tack...) because any 970 will squeeze sales. 1.4 970 Tower for £1-1300? iMac top end for £1500? I don't think so.
I think they should go for it. Yields must be good for the 1.4 970. (If the iMac refresh schedule is anything to go by...then .9 970s will be ready by then...from 1.8 - 2.5 gig? Who knows. I don't see the pro-laptops or iMac2 getting anymore G4s. ) Apple must know why iMac2s aint selling. I do. It's stupidly overpriced. Son of Cube. Hello. If it had the 970 in its top end config' with a decent graphics card then fair enough.
Come the fall or early next year...the big push to 2 gig G3 Extreme cpus should surely be with us.
Hmmm. The iMac2. The machine I'd love to have if Apple stuck a dual 1.8 gig 970 in it with a 20 inch monitor and a 9700 card. Isn't going to happen? Not anytime soon.
Who knows. Eventually maybe? By then, dual 980s will be here.
iMac is gonna be 1.2 ghz probably with ddr but no support for it.
i think a 100 gig hd 512mb ram and FIREWIRE 800 which no one has mentioned here yet.
as for the graphics card hopefully something like a 9700
Don't think we'll see 970 iMacs till next year.
I do however think that the iMac will be a very good deal Because if the powermacs stay at the current price point or if apple continues the trend of dropping the price on every update then the lowend Powermac 970 assuming it will cost 1500 running at 1.4ghz or 1.6ghz will seem juicier than the top end imac selling for 1800.
So if you see my point the iMac is probably gonna see a price drop in my opinion.
Well it comes down to one thing, Moto or no Moto. If no Moto, then I believe the Mojave+altivec will appear along side the 970 powermacs with new chip naming schemes. I think the powerbook would follow suit and the Mojave would trickle down to the iBook and eMac.
If Moto stays then the iMac will get the G4+ (7457 or something?)
or- Imac gets remaining 1.42 inventory till the Mojave is ready to go. Macwhispers believes Moto is out, gone, no more and tho he may have issues, I think the all IBM lineup is a very real possibility.
This is why I initiated the 970 iMac thread nearly a month ago, alot of the posts are spot on!. A 1.25 G4 iMac YAWN!.
Ok, maybe the 1.42 G4 (7455) - could well be a decent stop gap until faster and cooler say by Jan 04 (7457's) if not earlier are available.
The great thing about the G4 is its well suited to "Consumer" range of Apple's product line - leaving the "Pro" to the 970.
The other problem with the 970 iMac @ say 1.2G - is convincing the non techy consumer that its twice as fast as a 1G G4. The PMac crowd understands the benefits (particularly the expensive software packages that can/will support 64 bit computing), whereas the general consumer is unlikely to realise the benefit.
Of course, hopefully, IBM can get its G3+ or 850 chip and then its hasta la vista Moto. Until then, bring on faster G4's for the benefit of iMacs/eMacs.
I wonder...could they? In the month of January 2003...Apple had blitzed most of their product line.
Six months later...?
Lemon Bon Bon
Of course. Apple has never before churned almost the entire product line at once. Price point drops at the same time. Apple was setting the stage for something significant to take place mid-year.
The problem is that it could be almost anything. Could be a G3->G4, G4->970 jump. Could be new products in the matrix. Could be further price movement. Could be something really radical.
My guess is that Apple set price points early this year that they felt were right for upgrades and for a new product for the matrix, so don't expect a lot of price movement. I'd expect the G3 to go away and the G4 or IBMs new derivative to go in the iBooks, 970s everywhere else including laptops (1.2 GHz would be a substantial step-up for even the 17"), towers to get a new case and be dual across the board, and a new mini-tower/headless type box to settle in with a single 970. Xserves bump to 970s as well.
it remains the year of the laptop because in spite of the improvements to the desktop lines, they still don't blow away the Intel/AMD competition but instead become very competitive. The laptops are a whole other matter, though. Not only does Apple retain the best laptop design, they should be way faster than a Centrino machine. Next year is the year of the desktop, when the 970 really stretches out.
Also, I expect that Panther will amplify the speed gains by bringing a lot of the OS X optimizations out. If Panther can show the speed gains brought from 10.1 to 10.2 and Apple does the above, I think anyone would be pretty hard pressed to call a Mac 'slow' in any context.
There. All my predictions for this month in one place. I'll go nap until WWDC. Someone give me a nudge when it starts.
Poor iMac is stuck at a fork in the road. "Which way should I go? Oh my, what will I become?" Some say the iMac should get the 970 and a better graphics card. It should move toward the high end. Others say it would make a darn good general office computer that doesn't need much performance, just a much lower price. It should move toward the low end. Whose right? I think sales would improve either way, but which way would be most profitable?
There have been several interesting comments in other discussion that suggest a lower end iMac may make the most sense. Someone observed that higher end applications are often run on a PowerBook, which has the added advantage that you can take it with you. The PowerBook may be the AIO of the future for those who need an IBM 970 for their work. Another observed that for general office work, the desk space taken by a computer can be a very important factor. The iMac's general size and shape makes it almost ideal for office use. However, the iMac's present price is a barrier for selling into the general business market.
What should a new iMac be? I think it could be both. First, redesign it to keep as much of its present shape and function as possible, but make it something that can be manufactured at a much lower cost. Two low end models are for office use and simple home needs - - the 15 inch at $799 and the 17 inch at $999. That may seem a little too high, but for those who really value desk space, ergonomics and style, I believe it would sell. Then, in addition to a modest performer for the office, offer high end models too, with the IBM 970 and a really good graphics card.
A year from now we're all busy talking about the 980 and when it will show up in the powerbooks, powermacs and iMacs.
A year ago, however, we were all talking about the "G5". I am a believer, but I just want to see the 970 in something - anything - before speculating too much on where it will be generally.
I predict Apple just lets the iMac languish with lame upgrades for another year or two, then kills it.
Next update, 1.2 GHz G4, maybe a faster FSB, still no true DDR support. Same displays, incremental boost in HD capacity, maybe better video cards.
This update goes for 9-12 months, then the iMacs get a boost to 1.4 GHz G4, same crap FSB, faster video chipsets, bigger HDs...this is the last update before the iMac gets EOL'd.
It's sad but history proves that Apple doesn't nurture the iMacs well enough to sustain them.
What I'd like to see (realistically)--a stop-gap iMac that has Powermac G4 performance, after the Powermac 970s are introduced, of course:
-Combo drive standard; Superdrive BTO (standard on 19").
-60 GB, 80 GB, 120 GB HD
All models:
-FW 400, FW 800, USB 1, USB 2, Bluetooth.
-Audio line in, line out, mic in.
-VGA/S-Video/Composite video output with video mirroring
Price:
$999, $1299 , $1799
The key to this lineup the low-end 15 incher, with it's lame G4+133 FSB, low RAM, low-end graphics chipset, and small HD. I tried to make the specs realistic, and hopefully Apple could price it to go at $999--the price point that should ALWAYS include an iMac. It's a tragedy that Apple hasn't dropped a G4 iMac to this price point yet.
The 17" model is a solid iMac with much improved CPU/memory and a modern video card. Priced for the masses.
19" LCD iMac is the upscale iMac, essentially a Powermac G4 in the iMac's form factor. Since Powermac 970s will already be for sale, this iMac won't eat into "pro" sales. It's got a gamer's video card that won't be ready for the landfill in 9 months. DVI out and monitor spanning for pros. A real desktop Mac, but compact and stylish. With a good price, maybe it will attract ex-Cube enthusiasts.
Make this the last update for this form factor--new form factor will be for the 970. It should be more "cube-like" with an AGP slot and CPU daughter-card, room for full video card upgrade, but keep the swivel display and arm.
I tried to make the specs realistic, and hopefully Apple could price it to go at $999--the price point that should ALWAYS include an iMac. It's a tragedy that Apple hasn't dropped a G4 iMac to this price point yet.
I think that your guess is about what we will see. We'll see a speed bumped G4. However I disagree with you that the iMac will be cancelled in a year or two.
It's sad but history proves that Apple doesn't nurture the iMacs well enough to sustain them.
I disagree. They do and can only do as well as the towers are doing. If the towers were at 2.5ghz by now the iMac would be rolling along as well. They are second cousin to the towers, so when towers suffer.....
If the rumor is true that the 970 will cost Apple less than a decent G4 from Motorola, why wouldn't Apple use it in the iMac? It only makes sense. If the iMac runs the 970 at lower voltage, performance and power dissipation will be lower. Lower operating voltage ensures that the iMac's performance is lower than the PowerMac, even if it uses the same chip. Also, only one model of the PowerMac will likely be single processor. At these CPU prices, PowerMacs will be mostly duals.
What Apple needs for the low end is a G4 that is almost as cheap as a G3. I think we have to wait for that to come from IBM, possibly the Mojave. If there ever is a low end iMac as I suggested about, it will have to wait for such an economical G4. (I call it a G4 because I think that is what Apple will call it. Any software that requires a G4 for minimum or preferred system requirements, as stated on the box, will run on the Mojave if it includes SIMD as rumored. Calling it anything else would lead to customer confusion.)
Comments
Originally posted by keyboardf12
damn them. they should have built a time machine so they could see how much moto was going to frell them in the future.
freakin apple.
They did, but it needed the G5 chip that Moto didn't deliver.
Originally posted by Shaktai
They did, but it needed the G5 chip that Moto didn't deliver.
The better question is will there be a 20" iMac and will (should?) the 15" be dropped.
Nope. Push that entry iMac2 further down the ladder to get Switchers on the bottom rung and climbing.
A 20 inch iMac. Sure. Why not? I've seen a 19 inch PC LCD on a swivel 'arm' and it worked okay. No reason they can't hook up a 20 inch. It would be space saving for print and office folks.
If there's another (gggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrroooooooan) G4 bump to the iMac...well...it's a sandbagger (complete with the SAME Geforce 4MX tack...) because any 970 will squeeze sales. 1.4 970 Tower for £1-1300? iMac top end for £1500? I don't think so.
I think they should go for it. Yields must be good for the 1.4 970. (If the iMac refresh schedule is anything to go by...then .9 970s will be ready by then...from 1.8 - 2.5 gig? Who knows. I don't see the pro-laptops or iMac2 getting anymore G4s.
Come the fall or early next year...the big push to 2 gig G3 Extreme cpus should surely be with us.
Hmmm. The iMac2. The machine I'd love to have if Apple stuck a dual 1.8 gig 970 in it with a 20 inch monitor and a 9700 card. Isn't going to happen? Not anytime soon.
Who knows. Eventually maybe? By then, dual 980s will be here.
Lemon Bon Bon
i think a 100 gig hd 512mb ram and FIREWIRE 800 which no one has mentioned here yet.
as for the graphics card hopefully something like a 9700
Don't think we'll see 970 iMacs till next year.
I do however think that the iMac will be a very good deal Because if the powermacs stay at the current price point or if apple continues the trend of dropping the price on every update then the lowend Powermac 970 assuming it will cost 1500 running at 1.4ghz or 1.6ghz will seem juicier than the top end imac selling for 1800.
So if you see my point the iMac is probably gonna see a price drop in my opinion.
EDIT: Its July 31. Never mind.
Originally posted by O and A
i think a 100 gig hd 512mb ram and FIREWIRE 800 which no one has mentioned here yet.
as for the graphics card hopefully something like a 9700
Look at the world..
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Look at the world..
Don't blame him, dreams are not expansives, high end hardware stuff are just the contrary
In my fat greek opinion, all macs will be updated on June 30th
I wonder...could they? In the month of January 2003...Apple had blitzed most of their product line.
Six months later...?
Lemon Bon Bon
If Moto stays then the iMac will get the G4+ (7457 or something?)
or- Imac gets remaining 1.42 inventory till the Mojave is ready to go. Macwhispers believes Moto is out, gone, no more and tho he may have issues, I think the all IBM lineup is a very real possibility.
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Look at the world..
Yes look at the world
1799 IMAC RIGHT NOW
17-inch widescreen LCD
1GHz PowerPC G4
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
64MB DDR video memory
256MB DDR266 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA hard drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers
AirPort Extreme Ready
Bluetooth Ready
compare to waht i said
i think a 100 gig hd 512mb ram and FIREWIRE 800 which no one has mentioned here yet.
as for the graphics card hopefully something like a 9700
keyworkd HOPEFULLY for a 9700 but everyone knows that ain't happening.
Seems more than realistic to me.
Ok, maybe the 1.42 G4 (7455) - could well be a decent stop gap until faster and cooler say by Jan 04 (7457's) if not earlier are available.
The great thing about the G4 is its well suited to "Consumer" range of Apple's product line - leaving the "Pro" to the 970.
The other problem with the 970 iMac @ say 1.2G - is convincing the non techy consumer that its twice as fast as a 1G G4. The PMac crowd understands the benefits (particularly the expensive software packages that can/will support 64 bit computing), whereas the general consumer is unlikely to realise the benefit.
Of course, hopefully, IBM can get its G3+ or 850 chip and then its hasta la vista Moto. Until then, bring on faster G4's for the benefit of iMacs/eMacs.
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
I wonder...could they? In the month of January 2003...Apple had blitzed most of their product line.
Six months later...?
Lemon Bon Bon
Of course. Apple has never before churned almost the entire product line at once. Price point drops at the same time. Apple was setting the stage for something significant to take place mid-year.
The problem is that it could be almost anything. Could be a G3->G4, G4->970 jump. Could be new products in the matrix. Could be further price movement. Could be something really radical.
My guess is that Apple set price points early this year that they felt were right for upgrades and for a new product for the matrix, so don't expect a lot of price movement. I'd expect the G3 to go away and the G4 or IBMs new derivative to go in the iBooks, 970s everywhere else including laptops (1.2 GHz would be a substantial step-up for even the 17"), towers to get a new case and be dual across the board, and a new mini-tower/headless type box to settle in with a single 970. Xserves bump to 970s as well.
it remains the year of the laptop because in spite of the improvements to the desktop lines, they still don't blow away the Intel/AMD competition but instead become very competitive. The laptops are a whole other matter, though. Not only does Apple retain the best laptop design, they should be way faster than a Centrino machine. Next year is the year of the desktop, when the 970 really stretches out.
Also, I expect that Panther will amplify the speed gains by bringing a lot of the OS X optimizations out. If Panther can show the speed gains brought from 10.1 to 10.2 and Apple does the above, I think anyone would be pretty hard pressed to call a Mac 'slow' in any context.
There. All my predictions for this month in one place. I'll go nap until WWDC. Someone give me a nudge when it starts.
There have been several interesting comments in other discussion that suggest a lower end iMac may make the most sense. Someone observed that higher end applications are often run on a PowerBook, which has the added advantage that you can take it with you. The PowerBook may be the AIO of the future for those who need an IBM 970 for their work. Another observed that for general office work, the desk space taken by a computer can be a very important factor. The iMac's general size and shape makes it almost ideal for office use. However, the iMac's present price is a barrier for selling into the general business market.
What should a new iMac be? I think it could be both. First, redesign it to keep as much of its present shape and function as possible, but make it something that can be manufactured at a much lower cost. Two low end models are for office use and simple home needs - - the 15 inch at $799 and the 17 inch at $999. That may seem a little too high, but for those who really value desk space, ergonomics and style, I believe it would sell. Then, in addition to a modest performer for the office, offer high end models too, with the IBM 970 and a really good graphics card.
As some would say, fire when ready.
Originally posted by NETROMac
A year from now we're all busy talking about the 980 and when it will show up in the powerbooks, powermacs and iMacs.
A year ago, however, we were all talking about the "G5". I am a believer, but I just want to see the 970 in something - anything - before speculating too much on where it will be generally.
Next update, 1.2 GHz G4, maybe a faster FSB, still no true DDR support. Same displays, incremental boost in HD capacity, maybe better video cards.
This update goes for 9-12 months, then the iMacs get a boost to 1.4 GHz G4, same crap FSB, faster video chipsets, bigger HDs...this is the last update before the iMac gets EOL'd.
It's sad but history proves that Apple doesn't nurture the iMacs well enough to sustain them.
What I'd like to see (realistically)--a stop-gap iMac that has Powermac G4 performance, after the Powermac 970s are introduced, of course:
Summer update:
-1.0, 1.2, 1.4 GHz G4
-133, 166, 166 MHz FSB.
-256, 512, 512 MB DDR RAM
-15", 17", 19" LCD displays.
-Geforce 4mx 32 MB RAM (15"), Radeon 9000 64 MB RAM (17"), Radeon 9700 128 MB RAM with DVI out/video spanning. (19")
-Combo drive standard; Superdrive BTO (standard on 19").
-60 GB, 80 GB, 120 GB HD
All models:
-FW 400, FW 800, USB 1, USB 2, Bluetooth.
-Audio line in, line out, mic in.
-VGA/S-Video/Composite video output with video mirroring
Price:
$999, $1299 , $1799
The key to this lineup the low-end 15 incher, with it's lame G4+133 FSB, low RAM, low-end graphics chipset, and small HD. I tried to make the specs realistic, and hopefully Apple could price it to go at $999--the price point that should ALWAYS include an iMac. It's a tragedy that Apple hasn't dropped a G4 iMac to this price point yet.
The 17" model is a solid iMac with much improved CPU/memory and a modern video card. Priced for the masses.
19" LCD iMac is the upscale iMac, essentially a Powermac G4 in the iMac's form factor. Since Powermac 970s will already be for sale, this iMac won't eat into "pro" sales. It's got a gamer's video card that won't be ready for the landfill in 9 months. DVI out and monitor spanning for pros. A real desktop Mac, but compact and stylish. With a good price, maybe it will attract ex-Cube enthusiasts.
Make this the last update for this form factor--new form factor will be for the 970.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
I tried to make the specs realistic, and hopefully Apple could price it to go at $999--the price point that should ALWAYS include an iMac. It's a tragedy that Apple hasn't dropped a G4 iMac to this price point yet.
I think that your guess is about what we will see. We'll see a speed bumped G4. However I disagree with you that the iMac will be cancelled in a year or two.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
It's sad but history proves that Apple doesn't nurture the iMacs well enough to sustain them.
I disagree. They do and can only do as well as the towers are doing. If the towers were at 2.5ghz by now the iMac would be rolling along as well. They are second cousin to the towers, so when towers suffer.....
If Apple does a 19"iMac, why not then just use the existing 20" display?
I mean, whats another inch?
What Apple needs for the low end is a G4 that is almost as cheap as a G3. I think we have to wait for that to come from IBM, possibly the Mojave. If there ever is a low end iMac as I suggested about, it will have to wait for such an economical G4. (I call it a G4 because I think that is what Apple will call it. Any software that requires a G4 for minimum or preferred system requirements, as stated on the box, will run on the Mojave if it includes SIMD as rumored. Calling it anything else would lead to customer confusion.)