AUSTIN, Texas - June 2, 2003 - Motorola, Inc. (NYSE:MOT) has delivered some of the first volume shipments of microprocessors produced using a low-k insulating dielectric during the metallization process. Motorola has applied this process to PowerPC microprocessor products including the G4 PowerPC processor, Motorola's MPC 7455 and the recently introduced 7457. Products manufactured with this method run up to 20 percent faster and at lower power than those made without it while maintaining high yields and reliability. This manufacturing breakthrough is a part of Motorola's ongoing commitment to high performance products. Motorola has led the industry in volume shipments of Silicon-on-insulator (SOI) technology since fourth quarter 2001.
The process was reverse transferred into a high performance 0.18 micron SOI process for immediate product shipments. Motorola has been shipping products manufactured at the 0.18 micron SOI process since the first quarter 2003 and plans to ship at 0.13 micron later this year.
Maybe this explains the 1.25GHz and 1.42GHz parts.
If the G4 scales perfectly to 2 GHz they will have spec200 marks as a IBM970 at 1.3 GHz integers and 700 MHz floating points. So the only reason to use would be if it is a drop in replacement as a stop gap thing before the next motherboard revison
If the G4 scales perfectly to 2 GHz they will have spec200 marks as a IBM970 at 1.3 GHz integers and 700 MHz floating points. So the only reason to use would be if it is a drop in replacement as a stop gap thing before the next motherboard revison
I have read some benchmarks comparing the dual G4 1,42 with the old dual 1,25 ghz. The dual 1,42 is only 3 % better. Perhaps these bad results are due to a lame disk on the computer tested ( a 8MB cache WD HD 120), but i think this result are due to the lame old MPX busses.
A 2 ghz G4 will not ouperform much the current dual, if the same lame bus is still there.
There is no future for the current G4, and the RM version disappeared from the roadmap.
IBM can easily adapt an altivec unit to the current G3 fx (see the mojave thread), they have already developped the VMX for the 970 (95 % ) of the job is done. This chip may appear when IBM will have good success with the ,09micron process, in order to still have a very small chip with low power consumption for high end embedded market.
It's pretty contradictory to say that Mot. is fabbing .09 micron parts now, with 0.13 micron parts coming later.
I think the .09 micron rumor is bull-- if Motorola were really able to fab at 0.09 microns, they'd be crowing about it big time, but they themselves are just saying .13 parts "soon."
I don't believe for one second that Moto figured out how to fab using a 90 nm process. No way. All the reports of dirty fabs, deserting engineers, and incompetent management are totally incongruous with Moto suddenly jumping from a 180 nm process to a 90 nm process. MAYBE if someone like IBM or AMD held their hand, built the fabs for them, and provided advisors to help manage the fabs and keep them clean...but what are the chances of this?
No, I think Steve Jobs is fixing to put his foot in Moto's ass real soon. Moto has been the bane of Apple's existence ever since the G4 was introduced, and unless Jobs has some masochistic tendencies I don't see him using the G4 one day longer than he must.
I have read some benchmarks comparing the dual G4 1,42 with the old dual 1,25 ghz. The dual 1,42 is only 3 % better. Perhaps these bad results are due to a lame disk on the computer tested ( a 8MB cache WD HD 120)
Slightly OT, but aren't those WDs some of the quickest out there?
I don't believe for one second that Moto figured out how to fab using a 90 nm process. No way. All the reports of dirty fabs, deserting engineers, and incompetent management are totally incongruous with Moto suddenly jumping from a 180 nm process to a 90 nm process. MAYBE if someone like IBM or AMD held their hand, built the fabs for them, and provided advisors to help manage the fabs and keep them clean...but what are the chances of this?
Motorola partnered with Philips Semiconductor and STM Microelectronics (the largest fabrication company in Europe) on a fab in Crolles, France. This is where the 90nm parts are supposed to come from.
So yes, in fact, they're getting some hand-holding. And they're getting to use someone else's brand-new fab, too.
Quote:
No, I think Steve Jobs is fixing to put his foot in Moto's ass real soon. Moto has been the bane of Apple's existence ever since the G4 was introduced, and unless Jobs has some masochistic tendencies I don't see him using the G4 one day longer than he must.
This is probably true regardless of what Motorola manages to do. I agree that some of the news seems contradictory, but it's not rumor that Mot has a 90nm plant in partnership with Philips and STM, nor is it a secret that they were hoping to leap straight to 90nm. The biggest issue with 130nm and smaller is capacitance between wires, and that's why they're trumpeting their low-k dielectric technology: It helps keep the electrons in the wires, where they belong. Without that technology, there's very little gain in heat dissipation from 130nm to 90nm.
Mot being Mot, their plans might have gone astray, etc. One should never underestimate the ability of bad management to make hash of just about anything. It's really hard to say what kind of shape SPS is in, but I can't imagine it's anything like what it was 5 years ago.
Thanks Amorph, rickag, and Programmer for such reasoned and reasonable posts. So much angst about Moto, sheesh.
/long rant
It seems people forget Moto is a company, and are (trying) to do what is best for Moto. They are not going to do what is right for Apple, and it is not reasonable to expect them to. They are having (or had, hopefully) major financial problems, forcing them to really focus on key their key markets. They focus on the embedded market, where they really do excel. The fact that Apple uses the G4 (an embedded chip) shows the range of uses the G4 can cover. Remember, if Apple isn't happy with Moto's chips, they can and must go elsewhere. Yes, it sucks that the G4 isn't at 3+ GHz, but the responsibility is 100% Apples'. Frankly, I think everyone should be more mad at Apple for either not paying Moto money to develop a special chip just for Apple's use, or moving to something to someone else. Apple alone controls Apple's destiny, and if they aren't attending to such basic, serious hardware problems then Apple's management is doing a bad job.
/end long rant
Programmer nailed this rumor, that it never says anything about the G4 at 0.09, just that they are fabbing chips at 0.09. I dare-say that Moto/STS/Philips are simply working out the manufacturing, too, and not real products. We don't know. Amorph talked about Moto's desire to skip 0.13 altogether, so this news should not be really that shocking.
Finally, I fail to see why this isn't good news. Moto makes PPC chips, so the more companies that make PPC chips the better. If they really do have 0.09 fab process down (which is causing EVERYONE problems), then more power to them - and I truly hope they do bring the G4 (or whatever) to 0.09, as it will give Apple more options for chips. As I recall, someone at Apple once said options were a good thing.
I have read some benchmarks comparing the dual G4 1,42 with the old dual 1,25 ghz. The dual 1,42 is only 3 % better. Perhaps these bad results are due to a lame disk on the computer tested ( a 8MB cache WD HD 120), but i think this result are due to the lame old MPX busses.
A 2 ghz G4 will not ouperform much the current dual, if the same lame bus is still there.
There is no future for the current G4, and the RM version disappeared from the roadmap.
IBM can easily adapt an altivec unit to the current G3 fx (see the mojave thread), they have already developped the VMX for the 970 (95 % ) of the job is done. This chip may appear when IBM will have good success with the ,09micron process, in order to still have a very small chip with low power consumption for high end embedded market.
Thanks Amorph, rickag, and Programmer for such reasoned and reasonable posts. So much angst about Moto, sheesh.
/long rant
It seems people forget Moto is a company, and are (trying) to do what is best for Moto. They are not going to do what is right for Apple, and it is not reasonable to expect them to. They are having (or had, hopefully) major financial problems, forcing them to really focus on key their key markets. They focus on the embedded market, where they really do excel. The fact that Apple uses the G4 (an embedded chip) shows the range of uses the G4 can cover. Remember, if Apple isn't happy with Moto's chips, they can and must go elsewhere. Yes, it sucks that the G4 isn't at 3+ GHz, but the responsibility is 100% Apples'. Frankly, I think everyone should be more mad at Apple for either not paying Moto money to develop a special chip just for Apple's use, or moving to something to someone else. Apple alone controls Apple's destiny, and if they aren't attending to such basic, serious hardware problems then Apple's management is doing a bad job.
/end long rant
Speaking of angst...
Yeah, Moto is a company, and if they can't adhere to projected schedules and keep their customers satisfied, they lose them. Thus, Apple is turning elsewhere for PPC chips. That's not good for Moto, so you're reasoning is flawed. If Moto did what's right for Moto, then they would have been sure to keep a large customer like Apple happy.
I good company does what's right for their customers, in the interest of profits. The fact that Moto is currently having financial problems just goes to prove that they are rather incompetent, primarily due to poor management.
As for Apple paying Moto to design a decent chip for them, that's just ridiculous. No doubt Apple shared in the 970 development costs, and they probably did share in G4 development costs, but they aren't going to pay for ALL of the R&D. To blame the G4 fiasco on Apple is wrong. As it turns out, Apple probably went to IBM for the 970 soon after the G4 was introduced, since it probably took 2-3 years to design the 970. Apple is on the ball, they were simply saddled with Moto.
I suppose you're the type who buys a car that turns out to be a lemon, and instead of blaming the car manufacturer, you blame yourself for buying it.
Yeah, Moto is a company, and if they can't adhere to projected schedules and keep their customers satisfied, they lose them. Thus, Apple is turning elsewhere for PPC chips. That's not good for Moto, so you're reasoning is flawed. If Moto did what's right for Moto, then they would have been sure to keep a large customer like Apple happy.
I good company does what's right for their customers, in the interest of profits. The fact that Moto is currently having financial problems just goes to prove that they are rather incompetent, primarily due to poor management.
Well you assuming that Apple is that important to Mot and this is the real problem. Apple's needs are not the same as the average mot customer. Most mac fans simply can live with the fact that Apple is not a major factor for mot.
Quote:
As for Apple paying Moto to design a decent chip for them, that's just ridiculous. No doubt Apple shared in the 970 development costs, and they probably did share in G4 development costs, but they aren't going to pay for ALL of the R&D. To blame the G4 fiasco on Apple is wrong. As it turns out, Apple probably went to IBM for the 970 soon after the G4 was introduced, since it probably took 2-3 years to design the 970. Apple is on the ball, they were simply saddled with Moto.
[/B]
It's funny to see everybody blaming Mot and nobody is blaming IBM! Where the hell was IBM the last 4 years? They left Somerset and did nothing but increasing the speed of the 750 that didn't even match the mhz of the G4 at any time. Suddenly IBM is everybody's darling, do mac fans really have such short memory?
I don't see any sense in hoping that mot fails, the opposite sould be the case! We all should hope the mot and IBM are starting to compete again, it help the x86 so much that AMD is fighting Intel. If mot leaves the party and IBM does another "Somerset" the real trouble starts.
It's funny to see everybody blaming Mot and nobody is blaming IBM! Where the hell was IBM the last 4 years? They left Somerset and did nothing but increasing the speed of the 750 that didn't even match the mhz of the G4 at any time. Suddenly IBM is everybody's darling, do mac fans really have such short memory?
That's why I'm pulling for Mot to overcome their problems and get back in the game. If Apple goes from single source to single source, their situation hasn't really improved - even if, in the short term, the top-end CPU available to them has.
The problem with Mot was that they weren't doing what was in their own interest: Their management was legendarily incompetent, their engineering was wasteful and directionless as a result, just about everything was redundant and inefficient, and their best chip designers were ignored and underpaid - until they got sick of this treatment and left for Intel about two years ago. Eventually Mot lost so much money that they had to shut down some of the air purification systems in their fabs, and then their fabs got dirty, crippling their ability to produce high-end CPUs. Nobody should blame Apple for not pouring money into a company in these sorts of straits; they might as well just pile it up on the front lawn and burn it, for all the good it would do. Mot's trying to rebound now, but that doesn't mean they're ready to renew their commitment to Apple as a supplier.
The problem with IBM, of course, is that IBM is huge enough to do things entirely in its own interest, following its own compass, and so they ended up making smaller and smaller G3s rather than jump on the SIMD wagon because it met some internal goal. The best situation for Apple is multiple vendors - that's why they went with AIM in the first place, rather than AM or AI.
Not really -- IBM did all that Apple requested of them. As I posted here in '99, there was a serious logjam from the top Motorola Powermac chip on down which completely stunted the g3 line of products. The consumer line could not out perform the pro line in any fashion, so there wasn't anything to do.
Since 2000, Apple and IBM have used their resources for a much higher goal -- to create a true solution rather than merely a implement a bandage.
Not really -- IBM did all that Apple requested of them. As I posted here in '99, there was a serious logjam from the top Motorola Powermac chip on down which completely stunted the g3 line of products. The consumer line could not out perform the pro line in any fashion, so there wasn't anything to do.
Since 2000, Apple and IBM have used their resources for a much higher goal -- to create a true solution rather than merely a implement a bandage.
{double post, please delete the above one -- I thought I could make an amendment and then delete the first post, but I guess the delete post is not global.}
Unlike Motorola, IBM is very involved in the server market, a juicy one. IBM needs performant chips not only to sell to his customers, but also for his own usage. Considering that the server market is more important than the PPC market, IBM needs more a brillant high end destop PPC chip than motorola.
I will made an anology with the car industry. BMW for example invest many bucks for developping good high end motors, >= 6 cylinders not to sell it to others customers (even if he did it in several occasions) but to promote his own cars.
many others constructors like Renault are able to develop fine high end motors, but it's not their market, so they do nothing in this aera .
Motorola in the recent past was not interested enough in the PPC desktop market to make good products and commit many failures. IBM was not interested in the past by high end desktop chip. Now he is interested. It give room for the next years to develop this new family of chips. As long as the entry level server market is important for IBM, Apple will have good chips.
We will notice also, that the most important job of r&D developpement is already made, a power 4 core with an VMX unit. IBM has spent many r&D in this VMX unit. He is not obliged to develop it more in the next generations. If he want he can only change of core, power 5 core for the 980 and power 6 core for the 990.
There is slight chances that IBM will be not interested by entry server, but i doubt that they will loose the server market, one of the most important market for IBM.
Comments
http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/...175_23,00.html
AUSTIN, Texas - June 2, 2003 - Motorola, Inc. (NYSE:MOT) has delivered some of the first volume shipments of microprocessors produced using a low-k insulating dielectric during the metallization process. Motorola has applied this process to PowerPC microprocessor products including the G4 PowerPC processor, Motorola's MPC 7455 and the recently introduced 7457. Products manufactured with this method run up to 20 percent faster and at lower power than those made without it while maintaining high yields and reliability. This manufacturing breakthrough is a part of Motorola's ongoing commitment to high performance products. Motorola has led the industry in volume shipments of Silicon-on-insulator (SOI) technology since fourth quarter 2001.
rooster
Originally posted by Rooster
Motorola Delivers Volume Shipments of Low-K Microprocessors
http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/...175_23,00.html
rooster
Another quote from the press release
The process was reverse transferred into a high performance 0.18 micron SOI process for immediate product shipments. Motorola has been shipping products manufactured at the 0.18 micron SOI process since the first quarter 2003 and plans to ship at 0.13 micron later this year.
Maybe this explains the 1.25GHz and 1.42GHz parts.
Originally posted by rickag
Maybe this explains the 1.25GHz and 1.42GHz parts.
Seems likely. But if so, the press release came out a little too late. Or Moto did their best to keep it secret.
Originally posted by DrBoar
If the G4 scales perfectly to 2 GHz they will have spec200 marks as a IBM970 at 1.3 GHz integers and 700 MHz floating points. So the only reason to use would be if it is a drop in replacement as a stop gap thing before the next motherboard revison
You make perfect sense, will Apple?
A 2 ghz G4 will not ouperform much the current dual, if the same lame bus is still there.
There is no future for the current G4, and the RM version disappeared from the roadmap.
IBM can easily adapt an altivec unit to the current G3 fx (see the mojave thread), they have already developped the VMX for the 970 (95 % ) of the job is done. This chip may appear when IBM will have good success with the ,09micron process, in order to still have a very small chip with low power consumption for high end embedded market.
I think the .09 micron rumor is bull-- if Motorola were really able to fab at 0.09 microns, they'd be crowing about it big time, but they themselves are just saying .13 parts "soon."
We all know what "soon" means with Motorola.
CV
No, I think Steve Jobs is fixing to put his foot in Moto's ass real soon. Moto has been the bane of Apple's existence ever since the G4 was introduced, and unless Jobs has some masochistic tendencies I don't see him using the G4 one day longer than he must.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I have read some benchmarks comparing the dual G4 1,42 with the old dual 1,25 ghz. The dual 1,42 is only 3 % better. Perhaps these bad results are due to a lame disk on the computer tested ( a 8MB cache WD HD 120)
Slightly OT, but aren't those WDs some of the quickest out there?
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
I don't believe for one second that Moto figured out how to fab using a 90 nm process. No way. All the reports of dirty fabs, deserting engineers, and incompetent management are totally incongruous with Moto suddenly jumping from a 180 nm process to a 90 nm process. MAYBE if someone like IBM or AMD held their hand, built the fabs for them, and provided advisors to help manage the fabs and keep them clean...but what are the chances of this?
Motorola partnered with Philips Semiconductor and STM Microelectronics (the largest fabrication company in Europe) on a fab in Crolles, France. This is where the 90nm parts are supposed to come from.
So yes, in fact, they're getting some hand-holding. And they're getting to use someone else's brand-new fab, too.
No, I think Steve Jobs is fixing to put his foot in Moto's ass real soon. Moto has been the bane of Apple's existence ever since the G4 was introduced, and unless Jobs has some masochistic tendencies I don't see him using the G4 one day longer than he must.
This is probably true regardless of what Motorola manages to do. I agree that some of the news seems contradictory, but it's not rumor that Mot has a 90nm plant in partnership with Philips and STM, nor is it a secret that they were hoping to leap straight to 90nm. The biggest issue with 130nm and smaller is capacitance between wires, and that's why they're trumpeting their low-k dielectric technology: It helps keep the electrons in the wires, where they belong. Without that technology, there's very little gain in heat dissipation from 130nm to 90nm.
Mot being Mot, their plans might have gone astray, etc. One should never underestimate the ability of bad management to make hash of just about anything. It's really hard to say what kind of shape SPS is in, but I can't imagine it's anything like what it was 5 years ago.
/long rant
It seems people forget Moto is a company, and are (trying) to do what is best for Moto. They are not going to do what is right for Apple, and it is not reasonable to expect them to. They are having (or had, hopefully) major financial problems, forcing them to really focus on key their key markets. They focus on the embedded market, where they really do excel. The fact that Apple uses the G4 (an embedded chip) shows the range of uses the G4 can cover. Remember, if Apple isn't happy with Moto's chips, they can and must go elsewhere. Yes, it sucks that the G4 isn't at 3+ GHz, but the responsibility is 100% Apples'. Frankly, I think everyone should be more mad at Apple for either not paying Moto money to develop a special chip just for Apple's use, or moving to something to someone else. Apple alone controls Apple's destiny, and if they aren't attending to such basic, serious hardware problems then Apple's management is doing a bad job.
/end long rant
Programmer nailed this rumor, that it never says anything about the G4 at 0.09, just that they are fabbing chips at 0.09. I dare-say that Moto/STS/Philips are simply working out the manufacturing, too, and not real products. We don't know. Amorph talked about Moto's desire to skip 0.13 altogether, so this news should not be really that shocking.
Finally, I fail to see why this isn't good news. Moto makes PPC chips, so the more companies that make PPC chips the better. If they really do have 0.09 fab process down (which is causing EVERYONE problems), then more power to them - and I truly hope they do bring the G4 (or whatever) to 0.09, as it will give Apple more options for chips. As I recall, someone at Apple once said options were a good thing.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I have read some benchmarks comparing the dual G4 1,42 with the old dual 1,25 ghz. The dual 1,42 is only 3 % better. Perhaps these bad results are due to a lame disk on the computer tested ( a 8MB cache WD HD 120), but i think this result are due to the lame old MPX busses.
A 2 ghz G4 will not ouperform much the current dual, if the same lame bus is still there.
There is no future for the current G4, and the RM version disappeared from the roadmap.
IBM can easily adapt an altivec unit to the current G3 fx (see the mojave thread), they have already developped the VMX for the 970 (95 % ) of the job is done. This chip may appear when IBM will have good success with the ,09micron process, in order to still have a very small chip with low power consumption for high end embedded market.
DP1.42 is worse in some cases.
Originally posted by low-fi
Slightly OT, but aren't those WDs some of the quickest out there?
For the mac, the "old" IBM HD included in the first generation dual 1,25 ghz, seemed to be faster.
The current dual G4 are memory starved : upclocking the G4 give now very limited impact in real application performance.
Originally posted by Thai Moof
Thanks Amorph, rickag, and Programmer for such reasoned and reasonable posts. So much angst about Moto, sheesh.
/long rant
It seems people forget Moto is a company, and are (trying) to do what is best for Moto. They are not going to do what is right for Apple, and it is not reasonable to expect them to. They are having (or had, hopefully) major financial problems, forcing them to really focus on key their key markets. They focus on the embedded market, where they really do excel. The fact that Apple uses the G4 (an embedded chip) shows the range of uses the G4 can cover. Remember, if Apple isn't happy with Moto's chips, they can and must go elsewhere. Yes, it sucks that the G4 isn't at 3+ GHz, but the responsibility is 100% Apples'. Frankly, I think everyone should be more mad at Apple for either not paying Moto money to develop a special chip just for Apple's use, or moving to something to someone else. Apple alone controls Apple's destiny, and if they aren't attending to such basic, serious hardware problems then Apple's management is doing a bad job.
/end long rant
Speaking of angst...
Yeah, Moto is a company, and if they can't adhere to projected schedules and keep their customers satisfied, they lose them. Thus, Apple is turning elsewhere for PPC chips. That's not good for Moto, so you're reasoning is flawed. If Moto did what's right for Moto, then they would have been sure to keep a large customer like Apple happy.
I good company does what's right for their customers, in the interest of profits. The fact that Moto is currently having financial problems just goes to prove that they are rather incompetent, primarily due to poor management.
As for Apple paying Moto to design a decent chip for them, that's just ridiculous. No doubt Apple shared in the 970 development costs, and they probably did share in G4 development costs, but they aren't going to pay for ALL of the R&D. To blame the G4 fiasco on Apple is wrong. As it turns out, Apple probably went to IBM for the 970 soon after the G4 was introduced, since it probably took 2-3 years to design the 970. Apple is on the ball, they were simply saddled with Moto.
I suppose you're the type who buys a car that turns out to be a lemon, and instead of blaming the car manufacturer, you blame yourself for buying it.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Speaking of angst...
...
I suppose you're the type who buys a car that turns out to be a lemon, and instead of blaming the car manufacturer, you blame yourself for buying it.
Well, I am NOT the type of person to assume anything about anyone based on a single post in a thread.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Speaking of angst...
Yeah, Moto is a company, and if they can't adhere to projected schedules and keep their customers satisfied, they lose them. Thus, Apple is turning elsewhere for PPC chips. That's not good for Moto, so you're reasoning is flawed. If Moto did what's right for Moto, then they would have been sure to keep a large customer like Apple happy.
I good company does what's right for their customers, in the interest of profits. The fact that Moto is currently having financial problems just goes to prove that they are rather incompetent, primarily due to poor management.
Well you assuming that Apple is that important to Mot and this is the real problem. Apple's needs are not the same as the average mot customer. Most mac fans simply can live with the fact that Apple is not a major factor for mot.
As for Apple paying Moto to design a decent chip for them, that's just ridiculous. No doubt Apple shared in the 970 development costs, and they probably did share in G4 development costs, but they aren't going to pay for ALL of the R&D. To blame the G4 fiasco on Apple is wrong. As it turns out, Apple probably went to IBM for the 970 soon after the G4 was introduced, since it probably took 2-3 years to design the 970. Apple is on the ball, they were simply saddled with Moto.
[/B]
It's funny to see everybody blaming Mot and nobody is blaming IBM! Where the hell was IBM the last 4 years? They left Somerset and did nothing but increasing the speed of the 750 that didn't even match the mhz of the G4 at any time. Suddenly IBM is everybody's darling, do mac fans really have such short memory?
I don't see any sense in hoping that mot fails, the opposite sould be the case! We all should hope the mot and IBM are starting to compete again, it help the x86 so much that AMD is fighting Intel. If mot leaves the party and IBM does another "Somerset" the real trouble starts.
End of Line
Originally posted by User Tron
It's funny to see everybody blaming Mot and nobody is blaming IBM! Where the hell was IBM the last 4 years? They left Somerset and did nothing but increasing the speed of the 750 that didn't even match the mhz of the G4 at any time. Suddenly IBM is everybody's darling, do mac fans really have such short memory?
That's why I'm pulling for Mot to overcome their problems and get back in the game. If Apple goes from single source to single source, their situation hasn't really improved - even if, in the short term, the top-end CPU available to them has.
The problem with Mot was that they weren't doing what was in their own interest: Their management was legendarily incompetent, their engineering was wasteful and directionless as a result, just about everything was redundant and inefficient, and their best chip designers were ignored and underpaid - until they got sick of this treatment and left for Intel about two years ago. Eventually Mot lost so much money that they had to shut down some of the air purification systems in their fabs, and then their fabs got dirty, crippling their ability to produce high-end CPUs. Nobody should blame Apple for not pouring money into a company in these sorts of straits; they might as well just pile it up on the front lawn and burn it, for all the good it would do. Mot's trying to rebound now, but that doesn't mean they're ready to renew their commitment to Apple as a supplier.
The problem with IBM, of course, is that IBM is huge enough to do things entirely in its own interest, following its own compass, and so they ended up making smaller and smaller G3s rather than jump on the SIMD wagon because it met some internal goal. The best situation for Apple is multiple vendors - that's why they went with AIM in the first place, rather than AM or AI.
Good post.
Since 2000, Apple and IBM have used their resources for a much higher goal -- to create a true solution rather than merely a implement a bandage.
Originally posted by mugwump
Not really -- IBM did all that Apple requested of them. As I posted here in '99, there was a serious logjam from the top Motorola Powermac chip on down which completely stunted the g3 line of products. The consumer line could not out perform the pro line in any fashion, so there wasn't anything to do.
Since 2000, Apple and IBM have used their resources for a much higher goal -- to create a true solution rather than merely a implement a bandage.
{double post, please delete the above one -- I thought I could make an amendment and then delete the first post, but I guess the delete post is not global.}
Unlike Motorola, IBM is very involved in the server market, a juicy one. IBM needs performant chips not only to sell to his customers, but also for his own usage. Considering that the server market is more important than the PPC market, IBM needs more a brillant high end destop PPC chip than motorola.
I will made an anology with the car industry. BMW for example invest many bucks for developping good high end motors, >= 6 cylinders not to sell it to others customers (even if he did it in several occasions) but to promote his own cars.
many others constructors like Renault are able to develop fine high end motors, but it's not their market, so they do nothing in this aera .
Motorola in the recent past was not interested enough in the PPC desktop market to make good products and commit many failures. IBM was not interested in the past by high end desktop chip. Now he is interested. It give room for the next years to develop this new family of chips. As long as the entry level server market is important for IBM, Apple will have good chips.
We will notice also, that the most important job of r&D developpement is already made, a power 4 core with an VMX unit. IBM has spent many r&D in this VMX unit. He is not obliged to develop it more in the next generations. If he want he can only change of core, power 5 core for the 980 and power 6 core for the 990.
There is slight chances that IBM will be not interested by entry server, but i doubt that they will loose the server market, one of the most important market for IBM.