Assuming the large boxes from Apple are real at all, they're more likely to be PowerMacs. The iMac was updated too recently, and no Apple system besides the PowerMac (or any theoretical computer tower) would need that kind of a box.
That's assuming that there's only one device/system inside the box, of course.
You may be on to something with that last sentence. Those "large" boxes may contain "Buckets-o-iPods".
You refer to a system with a seperate memory and system controller. This is impossible. A system controller is the chip which links the CPU and Memory and to other devices in the system. Hence, it is the "system" controller.
Oh come on. The system controller is a name. It can denote anything anyone wants. I used the name because many people are familiar with the name and can understand the symbolism.
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The Apple diagram, instead of refering to northbridge/southbridge renames them System Controller/IO Controller
And??? Northbridge/Southbridge is PC nomenculture, so Apple use their own. The name doesn't mysteriously change the function of the chip.
Quote:
Apple has chosen to put controllers for devices which would benefit from the decreased latency and increased bandwidth in the system controller. Ethernet, FireWire and the primary ATA bus.
As has every chipset creator on the planet. Integration has been the name of the game since about 1970, in case you haven't noticed.
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You're saying, in essence, "Let's have a basic system controller where everything apart from memory [and I'm assuming AGP] is in the IO controller(s)".
Yes.
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BUT there is simply no off-the-shelf chip for Apple's IO needs. Apple would have to use multiple PCI-based controller chips for FireWire 800, Gigabit Ethernet, USB 2, ATA, Audio, Bluetooth, serial ports etc. If you wanted a beige box, there would be fewer controllers of course. But we are talking about Power Macs, not beige boxen.
That we know about yet. How far off can it be? I just want Apple to concentrate on its strong points and use others where it makes sense. nVidia nForce 3 PRO is short Firewire 800, but is up Dolby 5.1 sound, serial ATA and built in RAID. How long until they fix that?
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This normally would be a low-bandwidth, high latency solution. Your idea is to build eDRAM into the system controller. However, the individual PCI controller chips combined with the eDRAM might end up as expensive as having 5 different non-Apple PCI-based IO controllers. I don't think anyone can state that one Power Mac solution would be cheaper than the other.
I specifically mentioned using eDRAM as a possability. There are many other things you can do with the extra space, including not using it.
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This leaves one question remaining: Why would you limit Apple's SMP horizons by distributing controllers in such a way? Your system would limit Apple to one or two CPUs, with the cost increasing exponentially as more are added. With seperate hypertransport-based companion chips, Apple could add however many chips they want, and not end up with more busses than CPUs (and more cost to the end user) in low end systems.
Barto
And? Where is 100% of Apple's market at the moment? If someone wants a 4 CPU system let Apple cater for it in a very high margin xServe based product. I have always been talking desktops, and have assumed that in a thread discussing desktops you would be too.
You find me a 4 CPU system that is not considerably more expensive than a similar 2 CPU system. You won't find one because greater than 2 is hard and expensive. You need significantly better infrastructure to do 4 and greater CPU systems well (i.e. not the Daystar toy). Thats why there are no white box 4 CPU systems. They are all systems from HP, Sun, IBM etc. Big systems vendors who have been creating these architectures for years and years. Yes it is simpler now, but still hard, and not a market Apple should enter lightly.
heavy could be in reference to the all metal case of the new PM towers...no more plastic...
little nerd boys might actually develop some muscle moving their towers from home to the dorm...
(editors note: the above sentence should not in any way be viewed as a comment on any admin nor mod...especially not Brad, no, surely not...and don't call me shirley)
Let the speculation continue(like it was fading). The "heavy" hint sounds more like big iron.
Could Apple just start shipping the 970s in the Xserves?
My newly updated Totally Speculative Scenario?:
SJ introduces the "G5" Xserves and steep discounts on the G4 PowerMac line. No mention on when the "G5s" will go into the PowerMac line(that would kill the 10-15 monthly PowerMac sales).
if a single PPC 970 is introduced in the X serve and not in the tower, Apple will not sell anymore any towers.
If Apple is able to produce a mobo for an Xserve, i don't see wy they cannot produce a mobo for a tower. The reverse is also true.
Perhaps they will release both products altogether. The PPC 970 xserve can suit with the enigmatic Moki's description of too weightie for your house device ( i don't know many people who have a rack at home).
If Apple introduces/demoes(or mentions) anything with a 970 in it, sales of the current towers will suffer even more anyways. I agree that if the 970s can go into the Xserve now, there's no reason why they couldn't go into the towers now.
The only way sales of towers won't suffer(talk about an oxymoron) is if Apple/SJ avoids mentioning the 970s altogether and just talk about "future architectures" etc.
I wonder how much product(towers) is currently in the channels.
The only way sales of towers won't suffer(talk about an oxymoron) is if Apple/SJ avoids mentioning the 970s altogether and just talk about "future architectures" etc.
If there is no mention of the 970, Apple in general will suffer.
seeing as the previous thread was locked, I will post this here... the boxes are about the size of 3 of the current power mac boxes, which would give us about 20/30/40 power macs depending on size, (counting from the wraped pallet) awfuly low amount.
Assuming they are the new devices, Id "guess" there is around 600 "devices" total.
True. So the choice would be between the lesser of two evils. Demoing the 970s would be less "destructive" to the company as a whole than not mentioning the hopefully soon to come 970 machines.
yes, the only people that are concerned with the events of wwdc or even know about it, are us the hardcore, and the developers, and i guess the press but screw them. We and the developers aren't buying towers unless we absolutely need to right now cuz we think(know) that something's coming. There is no way a 970 announcement could hurt tower sales more than the current situation. Most people who are buying towers now, don't even know about the 970 in the first place. But the fact that stevenote will be broadcasted to apple stores means that they want the customers to know something. Apple needs to not only talk about the future but show us the future. Steve announces 970 machines, whenever they ship.. Preorders up the ass, people are excited about apples high-end again, more than makes up for a few g4 tower sales.
yes, the only people that are concerned with the events of wwdc or even know about it, are us the hardcore, and the developers, and i guess the press but screw them.
Hmm. I don't know about that.
Bad press=negative public info=fearmongering analysts=lower stock price
i guess that came out wrong but a 970 anouncement and/or demo regardless of when it ships will be good press for apple, its concrete proof of the future of apple. For f#$cks sake Steve give the people what they want already!
Well, with the amount of press(from all sources) that Apple always gets, news will spread fast. If the 970s are demoed expect whatever inventory is in the channels to be heavily discounted. I think that a large % of Apple users will hear the news of the new hardware in one way or another.
i guess that came out wrong but a 970 anouncement and/or demo regardless of when it ships will be good press for apple, its concrete proof of the future of apple. For f#$cks sake Steve give the people what they want already!
Agreed! Worst case scenario is Apple not mentioning the G5. followed by some analyst pretending he or she is in the know who starts blathering on how Apple failed to deliver.
Now I'm pretty convinced this won't happen. I'm suspecting the G5 will be shown and we'll all ogle as we've been dreaming of doing.
I'm not so sure Moki meant heavy as in poundage. I'm thinking more like, heavy, as in, "Far out, man, that new Zep album is HEAVY".
IF he did mean poundage, then the only explanation is a hulking xStation (666 tower for some ) This would be awesome, but not if it were the only 970 based desktop offered. WTF, keep the lame G4 Powermacs and only let rich folk in on the $4000 XStation? Not cool.
Germany Invites you to a [special or something] event in the heart of Europe.
Watch via satellite transmission the keynote of Steve Jobs for WWDC in San Francisco.
This will be an unforgettable event for audio, video, publishing, and media professionals. Expect some news that will exceed all your past expecations.
Be ready for a new computer era on 23.06.2003, starting at 6:00 PM in the ******.
Comments
Originally posted by Commodus
Assuming the large boxes from Apple are real at all, they're more likely to be PowerMacs. The iMac was updated too recently, and no Apple system besides the PowerMac (or any theoretical computer tower) would need that kind of a box.
That's assuming that there's only one device/system inside the box, of course.
You may be on to something with that last sentence. Those "large" boxes may contain "Buckets-o-iPods".
"Mr. Moki: What did you know and when did you know it?"
Moki: Would it be fair to say that the WWDC will not let us down?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/b...ection=general
...Now THAT is some "big iron!"
Originally posted by Barto
You refer to a system with a seperate memory and system controller. This is impossible. A system controller is the chip which links the CPU and Memory and to other devices in the system. Hence, it is the "system" controller.
Oh come on. The system controller is a name. It can denote anything anyone wants. I used the name because many people are familiar with the name and can understand the symbolism.
The Apple diagram, instead of refering to northbridge/southbridge renames them System Controller/IO Controller
And??? Northbridge/Southbridge is PC nomenculture, so Apple use their own. The name doesn't mysteriously change the function of the chip.
Apple has chosen to put controllers for devices which would benefit from the decreased latency and increased bandwidth in the system controller. Ethernet, FireWire and the primary ATA bus.
As has every chipset creator on the planet. Integration has been the name of the game since about 1970, in case you haven't noticed.
You're saying, in essence, "Let's have a basic system controller where everything apart from memory [and I'm assuming AGP] is in the IO controller(s)".
Yes.
BUT there is simply no off-the-shelf chip for Apple's IO needs. Apple would have to use multiple PCI-based controller chips for FireWire 800, Gigabit Ethernet, USB 2, ATA, Audio, Bluetooth, serial ports etc. If you wanted a beige box, there would be fewer controllers of course. But we are talking about Power Macs, not beige boxen.
That we know about yet. How far off can it be? I just want Apple to concentrate on its strong points and use others where it makes sense. nVidia nForce 3 PRO is short Firewire 800, but is up Dolby 5.1 sound, serial ATA and built in RAID. How long until they fix that?
This normally would be a low-bandwidth, high latency solution. Your idea is to build eDRAM into the system controller. However, the individual PCI controller chips combined with the eDRAM might end up as expensive as having 5 different non-Apple PCI-based IO controllers. I don't think anyone can state that one Power Mac solution would be cheaper than the other.
I specifically mentioned using eDRAM as a possability. There are many other things you can do with the extra space, including not using it.
This leaves one question remaining: Why would you limit Apple's SMP horizons by distributing controllers in such a way? Your system would limit Apple to one or two CPUs, with the cost increasing exponentially as more are added. With seperate hypertransport-based companion chips, Apple could add however many chips they want, and not end up with more busses than CPUs (and more cost to the end user) in low end systems.
Barto
And? Where is 100% of Apple's market at the moment? If someone wants a 4 CPU system let Apple cater for it in a very high margin xServe based product. I have always been talking desktops, and have assumed that in a thread discussing desktops you would be too.
You find me a 4 CPU system that is not considerably more expensive than a similar 2 CPU system. You won't find one because greater than 2 is hard and expensive. You need significantly better infrastructure to do 4 and greater CPU systems well (i.e. not the Daystar toy). Thats why there are no white box 4 CPU systems. They are all systems from HP, Sun, IBM etc. Big systems vendors who have been creating these architectures for years and years. Yes it is simpler now, but still hard, and not a market Apple should enter lightly.
In order to increase the clock from 1.42GHz to 1.6GHz the 7 lb. heatsink had to increase in weight to a svelt 30 lbs.
Hence, the reference to "hit the weight room".
little nerd boys might actually develop some muscle moving their towers from home to the dorm...
(editors note: the above sentence should not in any way be viewed as a comment on any admin nor mod...especially not Brad, no, surely not...and don't call me shirley)
g
Could Apple just start shipping the 970s in the Xserves?
My newly updated Totally Speculative Scenario?:
SJ introduces the "G5" Xserves and steep discounts on the G4 PowerMac line. No mention on when the "G5s" will go into the PowerMac line(that would kill the 10-15 monthly PowerMac sales).
That would suck though.
If Apple is able to produce a mobo for an Xserve, i don't see wy they cannot produce a mobo for a tower. The reverse is also true.
Perhaps they will release both products altogether. The PPC 970 xserve can suit with the enigmatic Moki's description of too weightie for your house device ( i don't know many people who have a rack at home).
The only way sales of towers won't suffer(talk about an oxymoron) is if Apple/SJ avoids mentioning the 970s altogether and just talk about "future architectures" etc.
I wonder how much product(towers) is currently in the channels.
Originally posted by Gilsch
The only way sales of towers won't suffer(talk about an oxymoron) is if Apple/SJ avoids mentioning the 970s altogether and just talk about "future architectures" etc.
If there is no mention of the 970, Apple in general will suffer.
Assuming they are the new devices, Id "guess" there is around 600 "devices" total.
Originally posted by thegelding
heavy could be in reference to the all metal case of the new PM towers...no more plastic...
This is the most logical explanation I've heard.
Originally posted by Ti Fighter
yes, the only people that are concerned with the events of wwdc or even know about it, are us the hardcore, and the developers, and i guess the press but screw them.
Hmm. I don't know about that.
Bad press=negative public info=fearmongering analysts=lower stock price
Originally posted by Ti Fighter
i guess that came out wrong
Agreed! Worst case scenario is Apple not mentioning the G5. followed by some analyst pretending he or she is in the know who starts blathering on how Apple failed to deliver.
Now I'm pretty convinced this won't happen. I'm suspecting the G5 will be shown and we'll all ogle as we've been dreaming of doing.
IF he did mean poundage, then the only explanation is a hulking xStation (666 tower for some
Discover the Future with the Apple
Germany Invites you to a [special or something] event in the heart of Europe.
Watch via satellite transmission the keynote of Steve Jobs for WWDC in San Francisco.
This will be an unforgettable event for audio, video, publishing, and media professionals. Expect some news that will exceed all your past expecations.
Be ready for a new computer era on 23.06.2003, starting at 6:00 PM in the ******.
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invitation