When they have a common objective (like stopping the peace process) they always start their little dirty war again. It never fails.
Those on each side that actually want peace and are willing to do what is needed can only stand at the side line and see their hopes being bombed by F16s and dynamite strapped around human bodies. The really sad thing is they don´t´just blow up eachother but also the peacewanting people.
Exactly. Israel should just accept the brunt of the terrorist, excuse me, politikal fighters, attacks until a peace treaty can be ironed out. If it takes an extraordinary amount of time, and in that time the terr... err, politikal fighters, manage to kill all the jews, you can't say Israel at least tried.
Exactly. Israel should just accept the brunt of the terrorist, excuse me, politikal fighters, attacks until a peace treaty can be ironed out. If it takes an extraordinary amount of time, and in that time the terr... err, politikal fighters, manage to kill all the jews, you can't say Israel at least tried.
Did you notice that suicide bombings are much more common when peace agreements are debated? It happens every time and Israel fulfil the wish of the terrorists by stricking back and do it so heavily every time.
Did you notice that suicide bombings are much more common when peace agreements are debated? It happens every time and Israel fulfil the wish of the terrorists by stricking back and do it so heavily every time.
Don´t let the terrorists win.
I noticed. It's sad. But what should the Israelis do? Offer hugs or a firm handshake? These guys want all jews dead in Palestine, no if's, and's, or's, or but's. I agree it's a tough situation, and turning the other cheek would be a noble thing to do. But these are the acts of a desperate country trying to protect their people.
Did you look at the road map? Calls for terrorism to stop. "We" didn't get that far. Why should the Jews sit by and get killed when the people who did it are in striking distance?
Hammas and IJ and the rest can't be reasoned with. Their only position is for Israel it disappear. So ... what's Israel to do? Sit back and take it while the process ignores the first step?
Palestinian militant group Hamas has warned foreigners to leave Israeli soil and pledged to bomb the Israeli state into "rubble".
try to look past the bias reporting at the BBC
So if this is the position of Hamas what should Israel do if they get intelligence of an attack coming. Ask the PA for help? But the PA supports Hamas. Arafat is a terrorist. If Hamas want's war and refuses the road map why should Israel have it's hands tied. If it's war and Hamas hides in civilian areas who's fault is it when people die? I know ... always blame the jew.
Palestinian militant group Hamas has warned foreigners to leave Israeli soil and pledged to bomb the Israeli state into "rubble".
try to look past the bias reporting at the BBC
So if this is the position of Hamas what should Israel do if they get intelligence of an attack coming. Ask the PA for help? But the PA supports Hamas. Arafat is a terrorist. If Hamas want's war and refuses the road map why should Israel have it's hands tied. If it's war and Hamas hides in civilian areas who's fault is it when people die? I know ... always blame the jew.
Alan Bershowitz has an interesting angle on terrorism.
In his book he states that terrorists are within their rights to go after legitimate military targets, even if it means disguising themselves as israeli soldiers.This is subterfuge & the Israeli Mossad does the same.
But where terorists step over the line, is when they deliberately target civilians with no legitimate military target in sight.
There is a profound difference between Israel's targetting of Hamas leaders & Palestinian terrorists who target Israeli civilians.
Note I did not say all terrorist tragets are illigitimate..the strikes against military posts etc are legitimate.
The fact that Israeli missiles kill civilians in an attempt to get at Hamas leaders is deeply regrettable. But it is a profoundly different argument to suggest that terrorists blowing up buses, schools etc in Israel, are acts of
" moral or political equivilance ".
As horrible as it may seem, I wonder how Hamas would feel if Israeli citizens start strapping bombs to themselves and walking onto Palestinian buses, or into Palestinian markets, mosques or schools...?
It suprises me that Hamas & other terrorist groups haven't come to this realization.. Terrosrism of this kind, is a form of war that is just as effectively used against them as is being used against innocent Israeli civilians..
But President Bush is right, there are too many who Hate peace.\
Alan Bershowitz has an interesting angle on terrorism.
In his book he states that terrorists are within their rights to go after legitimate military targets, even if it means disguising themselves as israeli soldiers.This is subterfuge & the Israeli Mossad does the same.
But where terorists step over the line, is when they deliberately target civilians with no legitimate military target in sight.
There is a profound difference between Israel's targetting of Hamas leaders & Palestinian terrorists who target Israeli civilians.
Note I did not say all terrorist tragets are illigitimate..the strikes against military posts etc are legitimate.
The fact that Israeli missiles kill civilians in an attempt to get at Hamas leaders is deeply regrettable. But it is a profoundly different argument to suggest that terrorists blowing up buses, schools etc in Israel, are acts of
" moral or political equivilance ".
As horrible as it may seem, I wonder how Hamas would feel if Israeli citizens start strapping bombs to themselves and walking onto Palestinian buses, or into Palestinian markets, mosques or schools...?
It suprises me that Hamas & other terrorist groups haven't come to this realization.. Terrosrism of this kind, is a form of war that is just as effectively used against them as is being used against innocent Israeli civilians..
But President Bush is right, there are too many who Hate peace.\
you nail the moral inequality between the types of violence perfectly. NOTE: I also see a big difference between palestinian attacks on military targets, and palestian attacks on civilian targets.
Israelis cannot be expected to close their eyes and die when Hamas's goal is the destruction of all of israel, and the death of all of the jews. The very same goal that founded the PLO aka the PA. Thats not to say peace should not be pursued, but it cannot be done alone - and it certainly cannot be done under fire. Call it what you will, but this is most definitely war, and in war - the enemy leadership is not only a legitimate target, it is the most legitimate target. Targeted assassinations are not on the same heartless moral plane as targeted pizza shops.
The legitimate thing to do would be for both sides to declare unilateral war..In which case civilians on both sides would be seen as legitimate targets.
I am not for a moment condoning such a path of action or suggesting this form of all out open warfare will lead to anything but more human misery.
But at least, in such a scenario, both sides could then be forced to face war crime trials in the Hague.
you nail the moral inequality between the types of violence perfectly. NOTE: I also see a big difference between palestinian attacks on military targets, and palestian attacks on civilian targets.
Israelis cannot be expected to close their eyes and die when Hamas's goal is the destruction of all of israel, and the death of all of the jews. The very same goal that founded the PLO aka the PA.
But, that is exactly what Anders would have Israel do. A bunch of dead jews is no problem for him. If the peace plan gets derailed, it's the fault of the Jews for not just taking it. Oh yeah, it is sort of Hamas fault too, but not the palestinians or PA..no, never their fault, just fringe radical groups of Palestinians.
Anders has one demand, Israel should stand by with their collective thumb up their ass while civilians are targeted and murdered. A few dead jews never bothers him. The PA can fart around and do absolutably nothing, so long as they pay a little lip service to the road map.
But, that is exactly what Anders would have Israel do. A bunch of dead jews is no problem for him. If the peace plan gets derailed, it's the fault of the Jews for not just taking it. Oh yeah, it is sort of Hamas fault too, but not the palestinians or PA..no, never their fault, just fringe radical groups of Palestinians.
Anders has one demand, Israel should stand by with their collective thumb up their ass while civilians are targeted and murdered. A few dead jews never bothers him. The PA can fart around and do absolutably nothing, so long as they pay a little lip service to the road map.
Both sides are to blame. Both sides are wrong. The problem with people like you is that when anyone assigns any blame at all to Israel, they are pounced on as anti-semitic and they all are demon hitler antichrists who want eat all the jews.
Both sides are to blame. Both sides are wrong. The problem with people like you is that when anyone assigns any blame at all to Israel, they are pounced on as anti-semitic and they all are demon hitler antichrists who want eat all the jews.
I label anti-semitic those whose expect that Israel should give up the right to defend herself and those that expect Jews should be willing to just roll over and die...such as Anders.
Yes, there is blame on both side. But as Ander hypothetical conversation above shows, he only has blame for the radical parts of the Palestinians and Israel. No blame is given to the PA and the overall blame is laid at the feet of the Israeli government.
The problem with people like you is that blood split is only a problem when it's not jewish. Sometimes a rose by any other name.......
Comments
Originally posted by Anders
CNN: -- Israeli missile attack in Gaza kills five people, including member of Hamas, wounds at least 25, Palestinian medical officials say.
So the Israeli government and (the military wing of) Hamas actually CAN agree when they have to.
Sorry Anders...I'm not sure exactly what your point is ?
Those on each side that actually want peace and are willing to do what is needed can only stand at the side line and see their hopes being bombed by F16s and dynamite strapped around human bodies. The really sad thing is they don´t´just blow up eachother but also the peacewanting people.
Originally posted by Outsider
Exactly. Israel should just accept the brunt of the terrorist, excuse me, politikal fighters, attacks until a peace treaty can be ironed out. If it takes an extraordinary amount of time, and in that time the terr... err, politikal fighters, manage to kill all the jews, you can't say Israel at least tried.
Did you notice that suicide bombings are much more common when peace agreements are debated? It happens every time and Israel fulfil the wish of the terrorists by stricking back and do it so heavily every time.
Don´t let the terrorists win.
Originally posted by Anders
Don´t let the terrorists win.
Yes, but i don't see what can we do ?
Originally posted by Anders
Did you notice that suicide bombings are much more common when peace agreements are debated? It happens every time and Israel fulfil the wish of the terrorists by stricking back and do it so heavily every time.
Don´t let the terrorists win.
I noticed. It's sad. But what should the Israelis do? Offer hugs or a firm handshake? These guys want all jews dead in Palestine, no if's, and's, or's, or but's. I agree it's a tough situation, and turning the other cheek would be a noble thing to do. But these are the acts of a desperate country trying to protect their people.
Hamas - No. Die Jews
How did we get to blaming Israel?
Originally posted by Scott
Israel - Let's start the peace process.
Hamas - No. Die Jews
How did we get to blaming Israel?
No Scott
PA and Israeli peace organisations: Lets start the peace process
Israeli government: Okay but you have to show progress first and first then will we give you half of whats in the deal.
PA: Hmm. Okay, so lets get into acti....
Israeli: And you have to do something about the terrorist on your side.
PA: You know. Thats is going to be tough. But we will make an atte...
Hamas: **** you. Who asked us? Take this evil Israel.***bomb***
Israeli government: Well then you take this***BOMB***
Hamas: Ha is that all you got?***BAM***
Israel: Them see THIS fire cracker***BAMBAM***
PA and Israeli peace organisation: Umm. That peace thing. When do we start on that?
Israeli government and Hamas: Not now. Can you see we are occupied?
The Israeli government and Hamas are locked in a homo mating ritual.
I'm not getting it.
Hammas and IJ and the rest can't be reasoned with. Their only position is for Israel it disappear. So ... what's Israel to do? Sit back and take it while the process ignores the first step?
NO HOLY LAND FOR EITHER OF YOU!
Israelis can have part of Montana. Palestinians can have part of the Australian Outback.
Holy Land has giant bubble erected over it and tourists can view its "treasures" via webcam.
Palestinian militant group Hamas has warned foreigners to leave Israeli soil and pledged to bomb the Israeli state into "rubble".
try to look past the bias reporting at the BBC
So if this is the position of Hamas what should Israel do if they get intelligence of an attack coming. Ask the PA for help? But the PA supports Hamas. Arafat is a terrorist. If Hamas want's war and refuses the road map why should Israel have it's hands tied. If it's war and Hamas hides in civilian areas who's fault is it when people die? I know ... always blame the jew.
Originally posted by Scott
Hamas warning after Gaza strikes
Palestinian militant group Hamas has warned foreigners to leave Israeli soil and pledged to bomb the Israeli state into "rubble".
try to look past the bias reporting at the BBC
So if this is the position of Hamas what should Israel do if they get intelligence of an attack coming. Ask the PA for help? But the PA supports Hamas. Arafat is a terrorist. If Hamas want's war and refuses the road map why should Israel have it's hands tied. If it's war and Hamas hides in civilian areas who's fault is it when people die? I know ... always blame the jew.
Alan Bershowitz has an interesting angle on terrorism.
In his book he states that terrorists are within their rights to go after legitimate military targets, even if it means disguising themselves as israeli soldiers.This is subterfuge & the Israeli Mossad does the same.
But where terorists step over the line, is when they deliberately target civilians with no legitimate military target in sight.
There is a profound difference between Israel's targetting of Hamas leaders & Palestinian terrorists who target Israeli civilians.
Note I did not say all terrorist tragets are illigitimate..the strikes against military posts etc are legitimate.
The fact that Israeli missiles kill civilians in an attempt to get at Hamas leaders is deeply regrettable. But it is a profoundly different argument to suggest that terrorists blowing up buses, schools etc in Israel, are acts of
" moral or political equivilance ".
As horrible as it may seem, I wonder how Hamas would feel if Israeli citizens start strapping bombs to themselves and walking onto Palestinian buses, or into Palestinian markets, mosques or schools...?
It suprises me that Hamas & other terrorist groups haven't come to this realization.. Terrosrism of this kind, is a form of war that is just as effectively used against them as is being used against innocent Israeli civilians..
But President Bush is right, there are too many who Hate peace.
Originally posted by aquafire
Alan Bershowitz has an interesting angle on terrorism.
In his book he states that terrorists are within their rights to go after legitimate military targets, even if it means disguising themselves as israeli soldiers.This is subterfuge & the Israeli Mossad does the same.
But where terorists step over the line, is when they deliberately target civilians with no legitimate military target in sight.
There is a profound difference between Israel's targetting of Hamas leaders & Palestinian terrorists who target Israeli civilians.
Note I did not say all terrorist tragets are illigitimate..the strikes against military posts etc are legitimate.
The fact that Israeli missiles kill civilians in an attempt to get at Hamas leaders is deeply regrettable. But it is a profoundly different argument to suggest that terrorists blowing up buses, schools etc in Israel, are acts of
" moral or political equivilance ".
As horrible as it may seem, I wonder how Hamas would feel if Israeli citizens start strapping bombs to themselves and walking onto Palestinian buses, or into Palestinian markets, mosques or schools...?
It suprises me that Hamas & other terrorist groups haven't come to this realization.. Terrosrism of this kind, is a form of war that is just as effectively used against them as is being used against innocent Israeli civilians..
But President Bush is right, there are too many who Hate peace.
you nail the moral inequality between the types of violence perfectly. NOTE: I also see a big difference between palestinian attacks on military targets, and palestian attacks on civilian targets.
Israelis cannot be expected to close their eyes and die when Hamas's goal is the destruction of all of israel, and the death of all of the jews. The very same goal that founded the PLO aka the PA. Thats not to say peace should not be pursued, but it cannot be done alone - and it certainly cannot be done under fire. Call it what you will, but this is most definitely war, and in war - the enemy leadership is not only a legitimate target, it is the most legitimate target. Targeted assassinations are not on the same heartless moral plane as targeted pizza shops.
I am not for a moment condoning such a path of action or suggesting this form of all out open warfare will lead to anything but more human misery.
But at least, in such a scenario, both sides could then be forced to face war crime trials in the Hague.
Originally posted by grad student
you nail the moral inequality between the types of violence perfectly. NOTE: I also see a big difference between palestinian attacks on military targets, and palestian attacks on civilian targets.
Israelis cannot be expected to close their eyes and die when Hamas's goal is the destruction of all of israel, and the death of all of the jews. The very same goal that founded the PLO aka the PA.
But, that is exactly what Anders would have Israel do. A bunch of dead jews is no problem for him. If the peace plan gets derailed, it's the fault of the Jews for not just taking it. Oh yeah, it is sort of Hamas fault too, but not the palestinians or PA..no, never their fault, just fringe radical groups of Palestinians.
Anders has one demand, Israel should stand by with their collective thumb up their ass while civilians are targeted and murdered. A few dead jews never bothers him. The PA can fart around and do absolutably nothing, so long as they pay a little lip service to the road map.
Originally posted by Tulkas
But, that is exactly what Anders would have Israel do. A bunch of dead jews is no problem for him. If the peace plan gets derailed, it's the fault of the Jews for not just taking it. Oh yeah, it is sort of Hamas fault too, but not the palestinians or PA..no, never their fault, just fringe radical groups of Palestinians.
Anders has one demand, Israel should stand by with their collective thumb up their ass while civilians are targeted and murdered. A few dead jews never bothers him. The PA can fart around and do absolutably nothing, so long as they pay a little lip service to the road map.
Both sides are to blame. Both sides are wrong. The problem with people like you is that when anyone assigns any blame at all to Israel, they are pounced on as anti-semitic and they all are demon hitler antichrists who want eat all the jews.
**** the whole place. put it all under a bubble and relocate everyone.
at least it would create new problems to solve.
Originally posted by BR
Both sides are to blame. Both sides are wrong. The problem with people like you is that when anyone assigns any blame at all to Israel, they are pounced on as anti-semitic and they all are demon hitler antichrists who want eat all the jews.
I label anti-semitic those whose expect that Israel should give up the right to defend herself and those that expect Jews should be willing to just roll over and die...such as Anders.
Yes, there is blame on both side. But as Ander hypothetical conversation above shows, he only has blame for the radical parts of the Palestinians and Israel. No blame is given to the PA and the overall blame is laid at the feet of the Israeli government.
The problem with people like you is that blood split is only a problem when it's not jewish. Sometimes a rose by any other name.......