Faith healing and the TV razzle-dazzle...
I've been flipping around the channels recently and always seem to come across this Benny Hinn fellow and will watch his onstage presentations where he allegedly heals people, from out of the audience, of their various ailments and handicaps.
While I do believe in miracles and I certainly believe in the fact that often good things happen to deserving people that medicine and science can't explain, I don't know if I can buy into that whole flashy, mass-market "heal on demand" stuff I see on TV so much.
What is the real word on that?
I mean, being born and raised in the South, as a boy I attended my share of "fire and brimstone" churches (complete with the prototypical pompadoured minister in a cream-colored leisure suit, making the word "healed" into 6-7 sylllables...I've been there, done that).
These were alway smaller, rural and certainly blue-collar and below congregations. Nothing sophisticated or skeptical about anyone in the congregation (my grandmother, in particular, who I was always with during these episodes).
But I watch this stuff on TV and it has all the trappings of a full-on rock concert. Then, more amazing, the camera will scan the crowd and it is often quite a sophisticated, well-put-together group of people.
What are the mechanics of this? I just have a really hard time believing that some bent over old woman who can barely make it to the stage is suddenly dancing a jig (after the requisite "passing out" and falling back part).
Are they all (minister, stage assistants, "sick" person, camera crew, etc.) all kinda in on it, in a "nudge, nudge...wink, wink" kind of way?
Maybe not even malicious. Maybe they think that the show and grand theatrics that often accompany it do good and reaffirm the faith and commitment of those present?
Is this sort of thing ("healing on demand") possible. Even probable? Or is it a show?
I'd particularly love to hear from serious people of faith who have a clue and can articulate it (Dale, Fangorn, etc.).
I'm just genuinely curious.
I'm NOT bashing, mocking OR looking to start a big "Christianity sucks..." thread (it doesn't), so BR you might want to sit this one out. We KNOW how you feel already, so spare us this once.
Am I right to be skeptical about that whole thing? The televised, gaudy show of it all. If they ARE faking it, then isn't that a pretty strong affront to God and doesn't that kinda put them (Hinn and others) on shaky ground?
Where's that cut-off point between "doing God's work" and "pumping up the crowd"? I'd love to see the people being healed before and after, on MY terms. Can someone in a wheelchair, while conveniently on live TV and in front of an arena full of 11,000 people, hop up and begin auditioning for Riverdance?
I don't know...I'm asking.
Discuss...and help me get a handle on this, from someone coming at this from a fairly naive, layperson's perspective.
While I do believe in miracles and I certainly believe in the fact that often good things happen to deserving people that medicine and science can't explain, I don't know if I can buy into that whole flashy, mass-market "heal on demand" stuff I see on TV so much.
What is the real word on that?
I mean, being born and raised in the South, as a boy I attended my share of "fire and brimstone" churches (complete with the prototypical pompadoured minister in a cream-colored leisure suit, making the word "healed" into 6-7 sylllables...I've been there, done that).
These were alway smaller, rural and certainly blue-collar and below congregations. Nothing sophisticated or skeptical about anyone in the congregation (my grandmother, in particular, who I was always with during these episodes).
But I watch this stuff on TV and it has all the trappings of a full-on rock concert. Then, more amazing, the camera will scan the crowd and it is often quite a sophisticated, well-put-together group of people.
What are the mechanics of this? I just have a really hard time believing that some bent over old woman who can barely make it to the stage is suddenly dancing a jig (after the requisite "passing out" and falling back part).
Are they all (minister, stage assistants, "sick" person, camera crew, etc.) all kinda in on it, in a "nudge, nudge...wink, wink" kind of way?
Maybe not even malicious. Maybe they think that the show and grand theatrics that often accompany it do good and reaffirm the faith and commitment of those present?
Is this sort of thing ("healing on demand") possible. Even probable? Or is it a show?
I'd particularly love to hear from serious people of faith who have a clue and can articulate it (Dale, Fangorn, etc.).
I'm just genuinely curious.
I'm NOT bashing, mocking OR looking to start a big "Christianity sucks..." thread (it doesn't), so BR you might want to sit this one out. We KNOW how you feel already, so spare us this once.
Am I right to be skeptical about that whole thing? The televised, gaudy show of it all. If they ARE faking it, then isn't that a pretty strong affront to God and doesn't that kinda put them (Hinn and others) on shaky ground?
Where's that cut-off point between "doing God's work" and "pumping up the crowd"? I'd love to see the people being healed before and after, on MY terms. Can someone in a wheelchair, while conveniently on live TV and in front of an arena full of 11,000 people, hop up and begin auditioning for Riverdance?
I don't know...I'm asking.
Discuss...and help me get a handle on this, from someone coming at this from a fairly naive, layperson's perspective.
Comments
If you spend some time watching this sort of programming, you'll find that it often also affirms plenty of other beliefs: prejudices, hatred, bigotry, and self-righteousness. Bear in mind that you still haven't gotten off your butt, and you're feeling better and better about yourself and your position in the cosmos all the time. It's entertainment, sensationalist media, and candy-bar-like instant gratification all at the same time. Not to mention that the guy with bad hair is raking in money hand over fist.
This is not what most sensible religious people believe in. Neither are those contemporary Christian music shows where a mediocre singer repeats the same meaningless lyric over and over while a stadium full of people wave their hands in the air in poroxysms of spiritual fervor. These things are devoid of any real substance and are insulting to the intelligence and integrity of the Christian community, at least as I know it.
Back to skepticism. Skepticism, in my opinion, is integral and vital to real religion. You gain nothing spiritually from "proving" the existence of a deity by performing miracles or providing evidence for the actual occurrence of historical events. If these are the things that matter to you religiously (and they obviously do to a great number of people) then you have entirely missed the point. The real point is the message behind all of that. There are useful and important lessons to be learned from nearly all religious teachings, Christian or otherwise. The issue of who is right and who is wrong is simply irrelevant. It would be exceedingly arrogant for any of us to assume that we and we alone have the truth and the whole truth about the Divine nailed down. Even the most rudimentary study of history will easily do away with all the claims of infallability and divinely inspired writing and whatever, so I don't want to hear it. People believe what they were brought up to believe, or else at some point they make a conscious decision to believe something else. Proof is simply not accessible.
When it comes right down to it (and I'm sure this statement could be effectively applied to any religion), for all that Jesus' teachings were primarily in the form of metaphor, it's amazing that so many people fail to grasp the significance of the metaphor that was his life.
I guess that little rant went a bit outside the scope of the original post, but I sure feel better for having gotten it off my chest.
Just for some perspective, I was raised as a Christian ( a Methodist, to be precise), I have a BA in philosophy, and I am a fan of professional wrestling.
Originally posted by pscates
I'm NOT bashing, mocking OR looking to start a big "Christianity sucks..." thread (it doesn't), so BR you might want to sit this one out. We KNOW how you feel already, so spare us this once.
You suck.
I don't suck. I just don't want you hi-jacking this thread with more of the same. Sorry if that bothers you.
BRussell, I'm not sure what your angle is, but I'll assume you're being sarcastic?
My being a "nice young man" has nothing to do with it. I question nearly everything, at least once.
Why would you go to network television for spirituality?
Originally posted by pscates
BR, do you NOT take each and every oppotunity to bash religion
No.
bait Fellowship
No.
mock those who believe and otherwise belittle demean and rant on anything here regarding religion?
No.
Yes, you do.
No, no I don't.
I don't suck.
Yes, you do.
I just don't want you hi-jacking this thread with more of the same.
Like you aren't baiting me with such a hostile statement right from the get go. You are just derailing your own thread.
Sorry if that bothers you.
Doesn't really bother me. Just mentioned that you sucked, which you do.
I'm not even sure what I am. I'm certainly not watching Hinn and that purple-haired lady for any other reason that morbid curiosity and, I admit, a chuckle when I'm feeling frisky.
I just keep running across him, it seems. That's why I started this thread because he seems to always be on, doing his little thing. And people in the audience are all freaking out and are so into it. And I wonder if it's all a charade, mass hysteria, an agreed-upon "let's all get together on this", etc.
That's all.
I'm done with you, Sparky. On with the thread...
Originally posted by pscates
Care to put it to a vote, BR?
I'm done with you, Sparky. On with the thread...
Don't call me Sparky, Sugar Plum.
Originally posted by Influenza
Oh I'm sorry. I thought this wasn't a preschool.
If the sugar plum didn't tip you off that I wasn't being serious, you sir have problems.
anyway, back to the thread.
i'd love to see this go somewhere like
Battle of the Network Faith Healers
have each healer duke it out, see who can heal more people and rake in more cash in the hour time slot.
in reality though, i'd agree with the first post that this is just designed to confirm what people really want to believe. hell, if you're willing to tell someone what they want to hear, and can make them mostly believe it, that's worth some cash.
Originally posted by Influenza
Oh I'm sorry. I thought this wasn't a preschool.
You're new here, aren't you?
Stay the hell away from my fingerpaint, doodie-head.
And furthermore.. TROGDOR!!!!
That is all.
scA-rY
Originally posted by Anders
For a moment I thought it said Benny Hill.
scA-rY
Well, he was always slapping that little old guy across the head. It was just faith healing wrapped up in double-speed filmic comedy.
Originally posted by Anders
For a moment I thought it said Benny Hill.
scA-rY
at first i thought he had mistyped Hinn instead of Hill. i wonder what that'd be like, Benny Hill as a magickal healer.
another entertainer, Steve Martin, was the lead in a flick about these kinds of healers. He was a sheister, who took advantage of a town and ... well, maybe i shouldn't say more; incase someone out there is actually interested in the mov-ey. i can't think of the name of the movie, but i have a feeling it was something garish.
i don't much believe in the christian faith, or in miracles or much, but i think there might be a correlation between a strong belief in something and that helping a body to aide a physical ailment. i certainly don't think it works as dramatically as fixing a wheelchair-person's legs, or a blind-man's eyes, but can help on a lower level; like getting over a cold, or relieving a headache.
Originally posted by pscates
A small clarification: I DON'T, ena.
No I didn't mean it like that at all...just in general.
The thing with being a "faith healer" on TV is that you don't just wake up one morning and decide to have a faith healing show on TV. You need producers, writers, set decoration, lighting people---you start dealing with contracts, unions. It's a big production most likely designed to make moolah.
It's kinda like Marylin Manson, the guys all "anti estabilshment" but he has his marketing accounts, attorneys, accountants, manfucaturing contracts, and pays his taxes. Oh yea, REAL anti establishment, there.
They all basically say one thing and do it for MONEY.