This is very bad news! I know loads of you couldn't care less but many of my regulars only work in IE. Hopefully Safari will become a great product but currently (at v80) it's nowhere near good enough. At least 5 of my daily visited sites only work flawlessly in IE. And their (MS) implementation of Aqua is just PITA.
Much as i despise IE on OS X, i can't see this as a good thing. I was hoping that competition from Camino and Safari would pressure MS into making a competetive browser for the Mac. Instead, they just took their toys and went home.
Unfortunately, they are the dominant player in the web browser world. Probably at least 95% of web content today is viewed with IE. Right now, we can get by without IE, but if they start to implement more proprietary 'standards', Mac users are going to be screwed in a major way.
But what am i saying.. Microsoft would never do something evil like using its monopoly powers to squeeze its competetors... never!
Unfortunately, they are the dominant player in the web browser world. Probably at least 95% of web content today is viewed with IE. Right now, we can get by without IE, but if they start to implement more proprietary 'standards', Mac users are going to be screwed in a major way.
Since the rendering engine in Mac IE and Win IE are different it wouldn't help to have a Mac IE anyway (not mentioning things like ActiveX and other stuff like that).
Since the rendering engine in Mac IE and Win IE are different it wouldn't help to have a Mac IE anyway (not mentioning things like ActiveX and other stuff like that).
They may be implemented in different code, but the rendering seems to be very similar, if not exactly the same. Yesterday, I was visiting a peculiar site that required a login through ActiveX controls...it wouldn't work in Camino or Safari, but it worked just fine in Internet Explorer.
Many websites only draw properly in Internet Explorer...despite the incredible progress being made on Safari, I don't see this changing anytime soon.
As much as IE sucks, it legitimizes the Mac platform...I don't use it much, but it makes me sad as a Mac user to see it go.
Same goes for Adobe Premiere. Rumor has it that it won't be developed for Mac any longer. It sucks much compared to Final Cut Pro, but as a video editor, it hurts to see it go. I cut my teeth on Windows Premiere, and I probably wouldn't have switched to a Mac if Premiere for Mac didn't exist.
I think it is good news. Web developers are now forced to look at web standards if they want Mac users as customers.
I'm afraid too many pc-minded admins will simply ignore these 4 or 5% not using MS Windows. And I'm also afraid that large bulk of people currently using Macs will run to the dark side. In other words, Apple's marked share could be too small to survive this. Of course I hope I'm wrong but I fear the worst, I really do
I'm afraid too many pc-minded admins will simply ignore these 4 or 5% not using MS Windows. And I'm also afraid that large bulk of people currently using Macs will run to the dark side. In other words, Apple's marked share could be too small to survive this. Of course I hope I'm wrong but I fear the worst, I really do
IE for Mac is not going away - IE5 will be supported in the future and we will see minor updates from time to time:
"Microsoft said it would continue to support Internet Explorer 5 for the Mac for the foreseeable future, but development of the browser has been discontinued. Any future updates to the browser will only contain maintenance or security fixes, no new features."
They may be implemented in different code, but the rendering seems to be very similar, if not exactly the same. Yesterday, I was visiting a peculiar site that required a login through ActiveX controls...it wouldn't work in Camino or Safari, but it worked just fine in Internet Explorer.
IE for Mac can only handle a tiny fraction of ActiveX.
Quote:
Originally posted by Gizzmonic
As much as IE sucks, it legitimizes the Mac platform...I don't use it much, but it makes me sad as a Mac user to see it go.
There will still be a IE for Mac (read above) and remember that IE for Windows is also history now.
IE for Mac is not going away - IE5 will be supported in the future and we will see minor updates from time to time:
"Microsoft said it would continue to support Internet Explorer 5 for the Mac for the foreseeable future, but development of the browser has been discontinued. Any future updates to the browser will only contain maintenance or security fixes, no new features."
Sure, but would you do with a browser only spotting features from let's say 3 years ago? It's a fast moving marked and features become 'must have' very quickly. Personally I'm hooked on tabs, we'll never see them in IE. 3 years ago we hardly new 'auto fill', I wouldn't be without it now. In 2 or 3 years from now there will be loads of new features we 'can't be without'. It's a good thing that IE will no longer be default browser on the Mac. Hopefully that will make designers think of something else than MS standards. But I'm afraid too many 'won't give a damn' and that's a very serious thing
Sure, but would you do with a browser only spotting features from let's say 3 years ago? It's a fast moving marked and features become 'must have' very quickly. Personally I'm hooked on tabs, we'll never see them in IE. 3 years ago we hardly new 'auto fill', I wouldn't be without it now. In 2 or 3 years from now there will be loads of new features we 'can't be without'. It's a good thing that IE will no longer be default browser on the Mac. Hopefully that will make designers think of something else than MS standards. But I'm afraid too many 'won't give a damn' and that's a very serious thing
Again, MS are dropping development of IE on BOTH Mac and Windows - Windows users won't see new features either.
I feel for those who need IE for Mac, but as far as I'm concerned...good riddance. I tried Safari 5 minutes after the Keynote and haven't looked back. All my university, class registration, and grade sites work in Safari and I have never run into a web page that hasn't worked for me. Again, this probably isn't the case with everyone. In my narrow "I don't give a damn" view of computers and technology lately (meaning I'm getting sick of the platform wars and everyone I know asking me if I can fix their PC because it keeps crashing)...the less Microsoft, the better.
I can't see how this is a bad thing. So Apple has to pony up and make Safari even better than it already is. You have doubts that they will?? It is still beta and still way better than IE, sure there are some pages for me as well that make me open up IE, but they decrease in number with each update. I can only assume based on prior history that the bugs will be worked out and all the web will be viewed properly on Safari. I also know that Apple will adapt to the standards set forth by the web, and will more than likely lead the way in doing so, because now more than ever, they have to be better. Steve et al knew that this was one of the outcomes of making a browser of their own and did not want to be dependant or kiss MS's @55 in order for them to continue the development. The more Apple breaks away from MS the better our OS and lives will be as a whole.
I can't see how this is a bad thing. So Apple has to pony up and make Safari even better than it already is.
And I'm sure that's what Apple will do. They had to have seen this coming, and Microsoft had to know that much better versions of Safari will be coming out. This may be a bad thing for a little while, but I'm sure at WWDC or shortly after we'll see a full version of Safari. It's got to be ready by now. If we don't see it then, it WILL be in Panther.
What if Apple continued Safari development but teamed with MS to roll it into Exporer?
What I mean is Apple developes the browesr but it gets called Internet Exporer from Microshaft I mean soft.
That way it would still make it past the bank etc. webpages that only take Explorer. After all MS makes no money on the product and neither does Apple w/ Safari. So let them make Safari but call it Explorer. That wayy all the Switchers can be told- yes we have Internet Explorer.
photoshop, quark, and office are the three software biggies holding things together now.
APPL should have relacements in development for each of these VERY mature apps.
CATCH22= if apple moves to acquire a photoshop, quark, or office equivelant
adobe , quark, and ms may drop apple.
Having trouble
with sentences?
Adobe and Quark are obviously already trying to move their users away from the MacOS. MS has always left Mac users without some critical piece of the Office puzzle (Exchange mainly), and Adobe will likely do the same as they have already either dropped development of non-critical apps for the MacOS or simply not made them for the OS to begin with. Quark is flat-out lobbying users to drop Macs. Its only a matter of time. None of the 4 or so big development houses want to support the Mac, most are just going where the customers are (except MS might be a different case), but they are doing what they can to move customers to their platform of choice.
Adobe and Quark are obviously already trying to move their users away from the MacOS. MS has always left Mac users without some critical piece of the Office puzzle (Exchange mainly), and Adobe will likely do the same as they have already either dropped development of non-critical apps for the MacOS or simply not made them for the OS to begin with. Quark is flat-out lobbying users to drop Macs. Its only a matter of time. None of the 4 or so big development houses want to support the Mac, most are just going where the customers are (except MS might be a different case), but they are doing what they can to move customers to their platform of choice.
Why do you say Adobe is trying to drop Mac support? If Quark drops the MacOS, Adobe will sell even more copies of InDesign. Plus still a pretty big percentage of Adobe's sales goes to the Mac platform.
On another note: Apple cannot go away. I can't opperate Windows and haven't since 1999.
Comments
Originally posted by kelib
This is very bad news!
I think it is good news. Web developers are now forced to look at web standards if they want Mac useres as customers.
Unfortunately, they are the dominant player in the web browser world. Probably at least 95% of web content today is viewed with IE. Right now, we can get by without IE, but if they start to implement more proprietary 'standards', Mac users are going to be screwed in a major way.
But what am i saying.. Microsoft would never do something evil like using its monopoly powers to squeeze its competetors... never!
-robo
Originally posted by robo
Unfortunately, they are the dominant player in the web browser world. Probably at least 95% of web content today is viewed with IE. Right now, we can get by without IE, but if they start to implement more proprietary 'standards', Mac users are going to be screwed in a major way.
Since the rendering engine in Mac IE and Win IE are different it wouldn't help to have a Mac IE anyway (not mentioning things like ActiveX and other stuff like that).
Originally posted by JLL
Since the rendering engine in Mac IE and Win IE are different it wouldn't help to have a Mac IE anyway (not mentioning things like ActiveX and other stuff like that).
They may be implemented in different code, but the rendering seems to be very similar, if not exactly the same. Yesterday, I was visiting a peculiar site that required a login through ActiveX controls...it wouldn't work in Camino or Safari, but it worked just fine in Internet Explorer.
Many websites only draw properly in Internet Explorer...despite the incredible progress being made on Safari, I don't see this changing anytime soon.
As much as IE sucks, it legitimizes the Mac platform...I don't use it much, but it makes me sad as a Mac user to see it go.
Same goes for Adobe Premiere. Rumor has it that it won't be developed for Mac any longer. It sucks much compared to Final Cut Pro, but as a video editor, it hurts to see it go. I cut my teeth on Windows Premiere, and I probably wouldn't have switched to a Mac if Premiere for Mac didn't exist.
Originally posted by JLL
I think it is good news. Web developers are now forced to look at web standards if they want Mac users as customers.
I'm afraid too many pc-minded admins will simply ignore these 4 or 5% not using MS Windows. And I'm also afraid that large bulk of people currently using Macs will run to the dark side. In other words, Apple's marked share could be too small to survive this. Of course I hope I'm wrong but I fear the worst, I really do
Originally posted by kelib
I'm afraid too many pc-minded admins will simply ignore these 4 or 5% not using MS Windows. And I'm also afraid that large bulk of people currently using Macs will run to the dark side. In other words, Apple's marked share could be too small to survive this. Of course I hope I'm wrong but I fear the worst, I really do
IE for Mac is not going away - IE5 will be supported in the future and we will see minor updates from time to time:
"Microsoft said it would continue to support Internet Explorer 5 for the Mac for the foreseeable future, but development of the browser has been discontinued. Any future updates to the browser will only contain maintenance or security fixes, no new features."
Originally posted by Gizzmonic
They may be implemented in different code, but the rendering seems to be very similar, if not exactly the same. Yesterday, I was visiting a peculiar site that required a login through ActiveX controls...it wouldn't work in Camino or Safari, but it worked just fine in Internet Explorer.
IE for Mac can only handle a tiny fraction of ActiveX.
Originally posted by Gizzmonic
As much as IE sucks, it legitimizes the Mac platform...I don't use it much, but it makes me sad as a Mac user to see it go.
There will still be a IE for Mac (read above) and remember that IE for Windows is also history now.
Originally posted by JLL
IE for Mac is not going away - IE5 will be supported in the future and we will see minor updates from time to time:
"Microsoft said it would continue to support Internet Explorer 5 for the Mac for the foreseeable future, but development of the browser has been discontinued. Any future updates to the browser will only contain maintenance or security fixes, no new features."
Sure, but would you do with a browser only spotting features from let's say 3 years ago? It's a fast moving marked and features become 'must have' very quickly. Personally I'm hooked on tabs, we'll never see them in IE. 3 years ago we hardly new 'auto fill', I wouldn't be without it now. In 2 or 3 years from now there will be loads of new features we 'can't be without'. It's a good thing that IE will no longer be default browser on the Mac. Hopefully that will make designers think of something else than MS standards. But I'm afraid too many 'won't give a damn' and that's a very serious thing
Originally posted by kelib
Sure, but would you do with a browser only spotting features from let's say 3 years ago? It's a fast moving marked and features become 'must have' very quickly. Personally I'm hooked on tabs, we'll never see them in IE. 3 years ago we hardly new 'auto fill', I wouldn't be without it now. In 2 or 3 years from now there will be loads of new features we 'can't be without'. It's a good thing that IE will no longer be default browser on the Mac. Hopefully that will make designers think of something else than MS standards. But I'm afraid too many 'won't give a damn' and that's a very serious thing
Again, MS are dropping development of IE on BOTH Mac and Windows - Windows users won't see new features either.
Originally posted by JLL
Again, MS are dropping development of IE on BOTH Mac and Windows - Windows users won't see new features either.
I thought that was just the 'Stand Alone' version? Correct me if I'm wrong. The windows version will be part of Windows from now on.
Originally posted by kelib
The windows version will be part of Windows from now on.
Not until Longhorn (in 2005).
My own opinion of course.....8)
Originally posted by ijerry
I can't see how this is a bad thing. So Apple has to pony up and make Safari even better than it already is.
And I'm sure that's what Apple will do. They had to have seen this coming, and Microsoft had to know that much better versions of Safari will be coming out. This may be a bad thing for a little while, but I'm sure at WWDC or shortly after we'll see a full version of Safari. It's got to be ready by now. If we don't see it then, it WILL be in Panther.
What if Apple continued Safari development but teamed with MS to roll it into Exporer?
What I mean is Apple developes the browesr but it gets called Internet Exporer from Microshaft I mean soft.
That way it would still make it past the bank etc. webpages that only take Explorer. After all MS makes no money on the product and neither does Apple w/ Safari. So let them make Safari but call it Explorer. That wayy all the Switchers can be told- yes we have Internet Explorer.
It is true, when I get in trouble, I resort to IE.
But Safari shines!
Dr. L
Univeristy of Toledo
it's a big deal. don't kid yourselves.
it's showing that microsoft feels they've been green-lighted on getting back to kicking heads in.
enough time has past since the front page stories on anti-trust matters.
photoshop, quark, and office are the three software biggies holding things together now.
APPL should have relacements in development for each of these VERY mature apps.
CATCH22= if apple moves to acquire a photoshop, quark, or office equivelant
adobe , quark, and ms may drop apple.
these are industry standards.
just like internet explorer is the de facto industry standard browser.
get out your flak jackets kids.
Originally posted by bluesigns
photoshop, quark, and office are the three software biggies holding things together now.
APPL should have relacements in development for each of these VERY mature apps.
CATCH22= if apple moves to acquire a photoshop, quark, or office equivelant
adobe , quark, and ms may drop apple.
Having trouble
with sentences?
Adobe and Quark are obviously already trying to move their users away from the MacOS. MS has always left Mac users without some critical piece of the Office puzzle (Exchange mainly), and Adobe will likely do the same as they have already either dropped development of non-critical apps for the MacOS or simply not made them for the OS to begin with. Quark is flat-out lobbying users to drop Macs. Its only a matter of time. None of the 4 or so big development houses want to support the Mac, most are just going where the customers are (except MS might be a different case), but they are doing what they can to move customers to their platform of choice.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Having trouble
with sentences?
Adobe and Quark are obviously already trying to move their users away from the MacOS. MS has always left Mac users without some critical piece of the Office puzzle (Exchange mainly), and Adobe will likely do the same as they have already either dropped development of non-critical apps for the MacOS or simply not made them for the OS to begin with. Quark is flat-out lobbying users to drop Macs. Its only a matter of time. None of the 4 or so big development houses want to support the Mac, most are just going where the customers are (except MS might be a different case), but they are doing what they can to move customers to their platform of choice.
Why do you say Adobe is trying to drop Mac support? If Quark drops the MacOS, Adobe will sell even more copies of InDesign. Plus still a pretty big percentage of Adobe's sales goes to the Mac platform.
On another note: Apple cannot go away. I can't opperate Windows and haven't since 1999.