New eMacs on the Horizon?

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  • Reply 81 of 152
    [quote]Originally posted by applenut:

    <strong>



    you're joking right?



    A "gaming computer" can be had for much less than an eMac these days. hell, most laptops have better gaming performance than the eMac these days.



    The eMac's price is not justified. With the original iMac Jobs made a big deal how it wasn't last year's technology for at a low price today... well, the eMac is 2 year old technology not even at a very low price.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I guess we have different definitions as to what a "gaming computer" is. I'm not saying the eMac price range is perfect. I think it can come down a little, just not by a drastic amount. I have not seen any $700 computers that have matched that quality of the eMac either. Most had crappy monitors, cheap plastic cases that were coming apart, stuck buttons, etc. You have to expect to pay a little more for something that lasts.



    It seems half the people here are interested in quality hardware and software while the other half is only interested in the software and want it to run on the cheapest box they can find. It's never going to happen... thankfully. Apple makes both hardware and software and each is as important to user satisfaction as the other. What's the point of having a fantastic, intuitive and beautiful OS if the hardware it ran on would break so easily? I won't even get int othe importance of this in the education market where computers are abused regularly.



    If component prices continue to drop I can see an entry-level eMac at $750 but wishing for a $399 Mac is a recipe for disaster. As for games, I don't think any entry level computer is really good for games. Buy a console for games if this is your price range.
  • Reply 82 of 152
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    [quote]Originally posted by apple.otaku:

    <strong>



    I guess we have different definitions as to what a "gaming computer" is. I'm not saying the eMac price range is perfect. I think it can come down a little, just not by a drastic amount. I have not seen any $700 computers that have matched that quality of the eMac either. Most had crappy monitors, cheap plastic cases that were coming apart, stuck buttons, etc. You have to expect to pay a little more for something that lasts.



    It seems half the people here are interested in quality hardware and software while the other half is only interested in the software and want it to run on the cheapest box they can find. It's never going to happen... thankfully. Apple makes both hardware and software and each is as important to user satisfaction as the other. What's the point of having a fantastic, intuitive and beautiful OS if the hardware it ran on would break so easily? I won't even get int othe importance of this in the education market where computers are abused regularly.



    If component prices continue to drop I can see an entry-level eMac at $750 but wishing for a $399 Mac is a recipe for disaster. As for games, I don't think any entry level computer is really good for games. Buy a console for games if this is your price range.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I don't want an eMac for 399 or any mac for that matter... I don't even care if they get it to 799. But I do want them to offer a better product for 999. Cause as of now, the specs just don't add up the price. It seems like Apple must make too many sacrifices to products to get them below 1000 dollars and I just don't understand it.



    why can other manufacturer's have no problem including 256 MB RAM on sub700 dollar computers yet Apple sees the need to only give you 128 on 1300 computers... same with hard drives and optical drives and graphics cards.



    it just doesn't add up.
  • Reply 83 of 152
    emaneman Posts: 7,204member
    [quote]Originally posted by applenut:

    <strong>



    I don't want an eMac for 399 or any mac for that matter... I don't even care if they get it to 799. But I do want them to offer a better product for 999. Cause as of now, the specs just don't add up the price. It seems like Apple must make too many sacrifices to products to get them below 1000 dollars and I just don't understand it.



    why can other manufacturer's have no problem including 256 MB RAM on sub700 dollar computers yet Apple sees the need to only give you 128 on 1300 computers... same with hard drives and optical drives and graphics cards.



    it just doesn't add up.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Exactly. I don't think people would care about Apple's prices if the hardware that they're offering for that price was worth it. The current eMac just isn't worth $999.
  • Reply 84 of 152
    [quote]Originally posted by apple.otaku:

    <strong>I guess we have different definitions as to what a "gaming computer" is. I'm not saying the eMac price range is perfect. I think it can come down a little, just not by a drastic amount. I have not seen any $700 computers that have matched that quality of the eMac either. Most had crappy monitors,</strong><hr></blockquote>



    The eMac is far from the paradigm of quality, we are getting 3-5 eMacs in the shop with display problems a week



    Although Apple used to have very good quality, in recent years esspecially with the Blue G3 and G4 towers the failure rate is unacceptable, Apple has a much higher failure rate these days than Compaq does,
  • Reply 85 of 152
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    [quote]Originally posted by Stagflation Steve:

    <strong>



    . . . Although Apple used to have very good quality, in recent years esspecially with the Blue G3 and G4 towers the failure rate is unacceptable, Apple has a much higher failure rate these days than Compaq does.



    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    This is what I see too. The two Mac users I know who still own Macs both have new or newer G4s. Both of these have been in the shop to get a new motherboard. The other three Mac users I know switched to a Windows PC within the last 18 months.
  • Reply 86 of 152
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    [quote]Originally posted by Stagflation Steve:

    <strong>



    The eMac is far from the paradigm of quality, we are getting 3-5 eMacs in the shop with display problems a week



    Although Apple used to have very good quality, in recent years esspecially with the Blue G3 and G4 towers the failure rate is unacceptable, Apple has a much higher failure rate these days than Compaq does,</strong><hr></blockquote>



    yep. My g4 sawtooth had a messed up motherboard upon arrival, my powerbook g4 had a faulty power adapter and now the battery no longer holds a charge after 11 months of use.. My dad's friend purchased a dual 1Ghz tower and has had the motherboard replaced as well as the processor card. and my mother's district office is full of iMac CRTs with busted slot load drives and tons of screwed up CRTs.



    so, i don't know what the state of apple quality is, but to me, it isn't that great <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
  • Reply 87 of 152
    Are they not being repaired because of expense?



    There is a generic slotloading CD-ROM drive that fits in the iMac DV's and it is only about $65 when bought in lots of 10
  • Reply 88 of 152
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    [quote]Originally posted by Stagflation Steve:

    <strong>Are they not being repaired because of expense?



    There is a generic slotloading CD-ROM drive that fits in the iMac DV's and it is only about $65 when bought in lots of 10</strong><hr></blockquote>



    i think they fix em... i just think they get so many that they are always backed up <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
  • Reply 89 of 152
    If there is anyone there who is comfortable with the guts of the iMac, suggest they buy the slot-loading drive directly from LG or Philips, don't pay $320 for the Apple drive + Labor when you can fix it yourself for $65 and 20 minutes.
  • Reply 90 of 152
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    [quote]Originally posted by Stagflation Steve:

    <strong>If there is anyone there who is comfortable with the guts of the iMac, suggest they buy the slot-loading drive directly from LG or Philips, don't pay $320 for the Apple drive + Labor when you can fix it yourself for $65 and 20 minutes.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    yea, everyone there are apple certified technicians so... not sure how they get em fixed but I'm sure they aren't paying 320 dollars even if they are replacing them through apple.



    and I guess its not too bad considering a lot of the iMacs were bought for 499
  • Reply 91 of 152
    Wow, you people must be very unlucky. I have owned dozens of Macs and never had a single problem. My three nieces have bought Macs for college and have had no problems either despite the bizarre things their roommates have done to them. On a somewhat unrelated note, a few months ago one of my nieces moved to a new dorm, plugged her iMac into the network and everything was ready to go. Her new roommate had a Dell and it took three techs from the IT department two hours to get it working. Classic and a true story to boot! Just trying to add a little positive tone into this anti-Apple vibe that's going around.



    Really, if you are so dissatisfied with Apple then why do you keep buying Macs? Why do you hang around an Apple messageboard? I swear there is more anti-Apple sentiment here than on all the PC messageboards combined. It's really strange.



    [ 11-24-2002: Message edited by: apple.otaku ]</p>
  • Reply 92 of 152
    [quote]Originally posted by JRC:

    <strong>



    Chris, Dell now has the $389 Dimension 2300 back up on an easily-seen page, once again.



    <a href="http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/offers/specials_desktop_special.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/offers/specials_desktop_special.htm</a>;



    This link might change day by day, though. But, since I was unable to provide you with a link earlier, I am happy to do so now.



    That is the same computer I am typing this post from right now.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Thanks for the link. Wasn't there the day I checked (or at least I missed it). Anyway, important to not how this machines does not compare feature-for-feature with the eMac. It lacks a network card and a Combo drive. A little more memory (that's good). And the $389 is after $100 rebate.



    Is a 1.8G Celeron 2X as fast as a 700MHz G4? I don't know.



    Subtle but important points.



    To make it the same (well, as close as we can get) to an eMac looks more like this:



    $798

    - $100 (mail-in rebate)

    ------

    $698



    the eMac



    $1099

    - $100 (mail-in rebate)

    ------

    $999



    So...



    a) Not quite comparing a $389 machine to the eMac.

    b) The REAL price delta is $300.



    Something else here that might matter is whether OS X more properly compares to XP PROFESSIONAL (rather than XP HOME). If XP Professional, then add another $100.



    Now, $300 is still a LOT of money.



    So the question is about the $300. Are the advantages of the eMac and OS X worth $300?



    Not for me to say. For me they would be.



    Just trying to point out that people off make a simplistic comparision based on one or (at most) two metrics (price and MHz) but are often surprised when they have to add in the extras to get everything they really want/need.
  • Reply 93 of 152
    The 1.8ghz Celeron is ALOT faster than the lobotomized G4 in the eMac



    A 745x class G4 without L3 cache is at a massive disadvantage, and you can get a PC Ethernet card for EIGHT dollars,



    They are usually not included because when you sign up for high speed internet access the ISP usually throws one in for free
  • Reply 94 of 152
    [quote]Originally posted by apple.otaku:

    <strong>I swear there is more anti-Apple sentiment here than on all the PC messageboards combined. It's really strange.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Why would it be strange?



    We are the ones who have to deal with what has become of Apple, it is only logical we would have more complaints than PC users who have never touched one.
  • Reply 95 of 152
    My question on this thread, is what would you be willing to give up for say a $499 Mac? What should it look like?



    The "headless" Mac exists/existed in the form of the PowerMac G4 and the PowerMac Cube G4.



    Clearly Apple will not cannibalize those machines. But perhaps they need to segment their market better to allow for more customers with a variety of needs.



    What should the $499 eMac look like? Clearly it won't have a monitor (neither do those PCs, and many people here have noted that this would be okay).



    So what else? How is it different from a PowerMac?



    (BTW...Just ASKING here...not being sarcastic).



    Here's what I think might work:



    800-900MHz G4

    133MHz bus

    256MB RAM

    40GB HD

    CD-ROM (those $399 PC's don't have COMBO drives)

    NVIDIA GeForce2 MX w/32MB RAM

    2 USB ports

    1 FireWire port



    "super compact" design (small than the Cube)

    no expansion slots.



    What else?





    NOTE: Perhaps a better challenge here is, let's be Apple Product Planners. What would you make the product line look like? Be realistic. Understand that you have to keep Apple PROFITABLE. Understand that you have to compare apples and apples (no pun intended). Keep in mind that you are not selling computers on raw specs, you (as Apple) think you have additional value in your OS, design, ease of use, software applications, etc.



    [ 11-24-2002: Message edited by: Chris Cuilla ]</p>
  • Reply 96 of 152
    emaneman Posts: 7,204member
    [quote]Originally posted by Chris Cuilla:

    <strong>



    Here's what I think might work:



    800-900MHz G4

    133MHz bus

    256MB RAM

    40GB HD

    CD-ROM (those $399 PC's don't have COMBO drives)

    NVIDIA GeForce2 MX w/32MB RAM

    2 USB ports

    1 FireWire port



    "super compact" design (small than the Cube)

    no expansion slots.



    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    I think that would be perfect at that price point. But at least right now it's not possible since the eMac and iMac only have 700 and 800MHz G4s and 100MHz bus. Otherwise the specs you said would be great IMO.
  • Reply 97 of 152
    [quote]Originally posted by Chris Cuilla:

    <strong>My question on this thread, is what would you be willing to give up for say a $499 Mac? What should it look like?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    It could look like an LC III for all I care,



    1GHZ IBM G3

    256MB Memory

    40GB Hard Drive

    GeForce 2MX or Radeon

    CD-RW or CD-ROM Drive

    Ethernet, Modem, Firewire USB.



    The 1Ghz in quanities of 1000 is well under $100,

    256MB of SDRAM is about $30 in quanities of 1000

    a 40GB Hard Drive is about $60 in qualities of 1000, The GeForce 2mx chip is about $25 in quanities of 1000 and 32mb of DDR memory for it is next to nothing.



    A full sized CD-ROM drive is about $19 in quanities of 1000, and CD-RW is about $40



    Apple could sell it for $599 and even hold onto their usual margin.



    And by leaving it with a G3 it won't hurt their professional sales who would benefit from the G4 and Altivec
  • Reply 98 of 152
    jrcjrc Posts: 804member
    [quote]Originally posted by Chris Cuilla:

    <strong>My question on this thread, is what would you be willing to give up for say a $499 Mac? What should it look like?



    The "headless" Mac exists/existed in the form of the PowerMac G4 and the PowerMac Cube G4.



    Clearly Apple will not cannibalize those machines. But perhaps they need to segment their market better to allow for more customers with a variety of needs.



    What should the $499 eMac look like? Clearly it won't have a monitor (neither do those PCs, and many people here have noted that this would be okay).



    So what else? How is it different from a PowerMac?



    (BTW...Just ASKING here...not being sarcastic).



    Here's what I think might work:



    800-900MHz G4

    133MHz bus

    256MB RAM

    40GB HD

    CD-ROM (those $399 PC's don't have COMBO drives)

    NVIDIA GeForce2 MX w/32MB RAM

    2 USB ports

    1 FireWire port



    "super compact" design (small than the Cube)

    no expansion slots.



    What else?





    NOTE: Perhaps a better challenge here is, let's be Apple Product Planners. What would you make the product line look like? Be realistic. Understand that you have to keep Apple PROFITABLE. Understand that you have to compare apples and apples (no pun intended). Keep in mind that you are not selling computers on raw specs, you (as Apple) think you have additional value in your OS, design, ease of use, software applications, etc.



    [ 11-24-2002: Message edited by: Chris Cuilla ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Simple box.

    Standard video out

    Simple audio

    USB 2

    Firewire

    700 Mhz G4

    Keyboard

    Mouse

    Simple ext. speakers. or none at all

    at least one open PCI slot

    at least one open bay.

    nothing fancy

    no airport slot

    no DVI

    built-in, processor dependent graphics (upgradable via open slot)

    128MB memory (or 256 MB, since it's cheap)

    CD-ROM

    no floppy, of course

    no monitor

    two memory slots, one used by installed memory

    real power button

    30 GB drive



    for $700
  • Reply 99 of 152
    emaneman Posts: 7,204member
    [quote]Originally posted by Stagflation Steve:

    <strong>



    It could look like an LC III for all I care,



    1GHZ IBM G3

    256MB Memory

    40GB Hard Drive

    GeForce 2MX or Radeon

    CD-RW or CD-ROM Drive

    Ethernet, Modem, Firewire USB.



    The 1Ghz in quanities of 1000 is well under $100,

    256MB of SDRAM is about $30 in quanities of 1000

    a 40GB Hard Drive is about $60 in qualities of 1000, The GeForce 2mx chip is about $25 in quanities of 1000 and 32mb of DDR memory for it is next to nothing.



    A full sized CD-ROM drive is about $19 in quanities of 1000, and CD-RW is about $40



    Apple could sell it for $599 and even hold onto their usual margin.



    And by leaving it with a G3 it won't hurt their professional sales who would benefit from the G4 and Altivec</strong><hr></blockquote>



    i can't wait to see people's excuses about why Apple can't do this when they definately can...
  • Reply 100 of 152
    They would appear to be speechless
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