From a marketing standpoint, were Apple to execute properly, there could be substantial dividends to getting in bed with IBM.
Whether or not Apple has processor speed parity with Wintel, the overall perception that Wall Street, IT Professional/Department(s) and the Pro/Consumer space have, has been less than favorable for some time.
First and foremost from a PR standpoint, Apple is Apple and then there is everything else. With the advent of OS X, many serious programmers, scientist and IT professionals that have steered clear of Windows even, in favor of various Unices and the like are reconsidering their over all perception of Apple because of it's wholesale implementation of Unix.
While those of us that are Mac centric are only aware of Motorola where it impacts Apple, MOT has been in a slow and steady decline for some time. They've been undergoing managerial change and organizational restructuring for at least a few years now (And this was Apple's only source of chips). Wall Street was probably less suprised than Steve & Co. at Motorola's inability to deliver as the company has questioned it's own focus or lack thereof and glut. Needless to say, Wall Street would probably react quite favorably to IBM becoming the main source of Apple's processors. I'm sure IBM has a far better reputation for everything than MOT (comparable markets mind you) and perhaps even AMD (were looking great but lost + PR momentum in recent months).
Moreover, the venerable Power4's reputation is probably second only to the Alpha or at least to me it is. While most the world might not connect Apple and IBM as collaborators in terms of the G3, Apple needs to build on the connection of the
Power4 and the 970 (Power4 Lite) and get a whole brewed at IBM thing going. After all, no one was ever fired for recommending IBM.
Apple would be wise to dump the "G" moniker period. This would allow them a clean break. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the Super Computer that couldn't & stayed at 500 MHz forever while Intel/AMD started wagons a'circling. While they don't want to quite come out and say Motorola: the source of all our problems (potentially liable), they can say that IBM is the cure for all that ills them. The Power4 already has a brand Apple needs to build on that. They can even point out that if you thought Volicity Engine was bad, you should see us now kind of thing.
Imagine with Unix and Power4 in the same sentence, Apple kit starts to sound a bit like real iron. This would afford those who would, to feel they own a part of the Power4/5 franchise without paying the price which is probably why IBM found building a lite version of the Power4 so compelling anyway.
With Unix and IBM under the tent Apple's PR dept. has substantial bullets to sell. That would only leave Steve & Co. to consider creating alternative corporate type styling(s) if it's truly going to sale work stations or corporate machines. I could be wrong, but the current PRO models just don't quite meet the corporate dress code for computers. Maybe I'm wrong.
It means Apple will only have a possible 50mhz speedbump for Jan or early 2003. This is the new moto mobo G4 and we will se it early 2003. The 970 is coming out fall of 2003. So while mac users will be running naked in the streets throwing bitten apples at everyone when the leaves are turning brown, we will be quietly saving up those apples when the flowers bloom.
hehe</strong><hr></blockquote>
So you are saying we will see the PPC7457 1Q-03? Motorola's internal time table says 2Q-03. Then if the PPC7457 is coming out in Jan why will we only see a 50Mhz speed jump? Motorola shows the 7457 going up to 1.8Ghz.
Well, getting back to the thread, I believe that this is a leak and is correct. There is no motive to make this up and it is put together far to well.
Regarding the path, I thin it is likely that we will be dissapointed with the progress on pure Mghz until the 970 arrives. However, it does look as though even if we get a 1.3ghz MPC7457 in January the bus improvements will mean quite a jump in performance for some applications.
The road map seems to be quite clear, we are going to keep getting Moto-G4's until the PM's and PB's and xServes can swap to the 970, then we should see the eMac, iMac and iBook all adopt a new IBM G-3 with it's version of the velocity engine. at this point Motorola will be history for Apple.
We will all jump for joy, but Apple will be very vulnerable having only one supplier, IBM will hold all the cards when it comes to processor pricing, hence in my opinion Malarka. Malarka is there just to let IBM know that Apple isn't compleatly relient on them.
"We will all jump for joy, but Apple will be very vulnerable having only one supplier, IBM will hold all the cards when it comes to processor pricing, hence in my opinion Malarka. Malarka is there just to let IBM know that Apple isn't compleatly relient on them."
Hmm... The PowerPC 970's figures look very good. If it was available today. We could live with 'only' being 1.2 GHz behind intel as long as the benchmarks are right. If the PowerPC 970 was available today.
It is not.
Apple definitely needs more, or rather better, options.
About the naming, though, G4 stands for 'Generation 4 PowerPC Processor'. And it really was an extended G3 processor. So, yes, G5 would be okay for the PowerPC 970.
After rereading the article 2 more times I have decided that the claims being made by the author are quite believable and in context with current trends. All information listed seems to match what information is available at this time.
\tThe last part about marklar is great news. Apple needs to at the right moment, this moment being when apple has solid (being 970, DDR400, etc) hardware, release a x86 version of the Mac OS. For as we all know Windows sucks and with OS X at the right moment apple could steal a large market share from Mirco$oft.
\tI would also like to ask what Lagrande and Palladium are, for I have know idea. Does anyone know what these things are?
\t
Also, and this is directed to redkid, you claim to have known about the 970 before the fiasco over this chips started. I have no reason to doubt you, but could you not then let us know if this article is correct. For you seem to know much on the future of apple. In other words does this article sound correct to you? Thanks.
Oh sh*t that sounds just like 1984! No more free will. I can just imagine:
You turn your computer on only to see a big dollar sign saying "please activate your copy of windows". Then after going through an hour hassle you finally get to use it. ( oh wait Xp is already like that!) I think if Microsoft and intel really goes through with this it will help apple to the 10th degree. Windows users will come flocking for their free will. I began to shack just reading that column! Man I hate micro$oft! Hate them hate them hate them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! die die die die die...ok I think I need to get some sleep. lol I hope I don't have nightmares after this.
Also, and this is directed to redkid, you claim to have known about the 970 before the fiasco over this chips started. I have no reason to doubt you, but could you not then let us know if this article is correct. For you seem to know much on the future of apple. In other words does this article sound correct to you? Thanks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I don't know a lot but what info I came across during the summer (and no one seemed to believe me ) is- that Moto will have a new G4 with a new mobo design (not sure the #). Also, that is was intended for this past fall update but that it kept exploding due to heat. That's the possible explanation for the vents on the front of the towers. So this past update was gapper and that the G4 in jan should be a decent upgrade (not sure now). I was also told the IBM would be replacing moto in the fall. A dual boot machine with AMD in the mix was also mentioned as a "along with standard IBM boxen" would be released side by side possibly. The reasoning was that corporations want this from Apple to switch over, but either way, that an ongoing up to date version of X for x86 was real.
So to me, from what little one time info I have, this article is very, very believable.
Sorry, but that just doesn't follow. Revisions explain why manufacturers push back a target date, but it doesn't explain a target date announcement that far away. For IBM to announce general distribution in 2H '03 would mean they either just taped out or expect to at the end of the year or so.
It just doesn't take a year to go from tape out to production.
With Unix and IBM under the tent Apple's PR dept. has substantial bullets to sell.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Your whole line of reasoning about IBM and naming the 970 Macs makes sense. I'd go so far as say IBM should make a consumer G4-like chip for Apple as well. I always wondered why the 970 numbering started so high. Maybe it is to leave room below for consumer chips in the family, like a 920 maybe?
The G3, G4, G5 naming has a simplicity to it. It would be nice to keep something like this going for the power 4 connection. Maybe GP4 or PL4. Too bad P4 is already taken.
Further thought for all this Intel speed comparison.
Intel is shortly gonna have to swallow its own advertising.
The Itanium runs at a much lower clock speed than the current P4. They are even begining to sell the name 'Intel' and not so much the clock speed. Dell, et al, are still doing a mighty job of it though.
Long story short. The 970 will begin @ about 1.2 and scale from there. In that time frame Intel will need to start really pushing the Itanium. It currently stands in prototype form of 1Ghz. If they don't they are gonna be in a crunch. The P4 will not get bigger for ever.
"We will all jump for joy, but Apple will be very vulnerable having only one supplier, IBM will hold all the cards when it comes to processor pricing, hence in my opinion <strong>Malarka. Malarka</strong> is there just to let IBM know that Apple isn't compleatly relient on them."
<hr></blockquote>
I think you’re spelling this code name incorrectly. I think it’s spelled Malarkey.
Whatever they name it you can bet it will have '64' in the name. Why? Well P4 may run at twice the Hz but our chip is 64 bits and their chip is only 32!!!! So you see, no gap at all....
(ya, I know that's poop but do you think the PR flaks will care? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> )
ArchAngel, I agree with a lot of what you say. I personally think that Apple should license their OS to IBM for PowerPC corperate sales. This would include servers and desktops, but not 3rd party PowerPC computers. There is a little overlap in product between IBM and Apple, but they could work around and with this with design.
IBM would gain becouse they have a real market for PowerPC boxes in their enterprise solutions, and they keep the profits from the processor, from desktop units, in house as opposed to giving them to Intel. It also would allow them to break away from Microsoft to some degree, which they have signaled with their investment in Linex that they want to do. So IBM gets a polished OS for their Enterprise Solution buisness, instead of building one oneo Linex.
Apple would gain as well. IBM would have a renued interest in making the PowerPC a competative processor for the destop and low end server market. So Apple has a pertner in the platform instead of just a suplier. IBM and Apple use a common name for the processor, and they benefit from each others advertising in building the brand identity for the CPU.
In this IBM brings their strenghts to the platform (archetecture) and Apple brings theirs (Software solutions). Apple dosnt have the same threat in this alliance that they did with the clones becouse both companies offer higher end solutions in their markets, which meet in the middle, while covering the High-end server market all the way down to the low end consumer computer.
<strong>ArchAngel, I agree with a lot of what you say. I personally think that Apple should license their OS to IBM for PowerPC corperate sales. This would include servers and desktops, but not 3rd party PowerPC computers. There is a little overlap in product between IBM and Apple, but they could work around and with this with design.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If this kind of "merger" will ever happen, I hope Apple only licenses OS X Server to IBM. Giving them the consumer version would be to risky, I guess.
But IBM is slowly transforming into a services/consulting provider. Hardware isn't very interesting to them anymore. So how about Apple making Hardware AND software for IBM?
Comments
Whether or not Apple has processor speed parity with Wintel, the overall perception that Wall Street, IT Professional/Department(s) and the Pro/Consumer space have, has been less than favorable for some time.
First and foremost from a PR standpoint, Apple is Apple and then there is everything else. With the advent of OS X, many serious programmers, scientist and IT professionals that have steered clear of Windows even, in favor of various Unices and the like are reconsidering their over all perception of Apple because of it's wholesale implementation of Unix.
While those of us that are Mac centric are only aware of Motorola where it impacts Apple, MOT has been in a slow and steady decline for some time. They've been undergoing managerial change and organizational restructuring for at least a few years now (And this was Apple's only source of chips). Wall Street was probably less suprised than Steve & Co. at Motorola's inability to deliver as the company has questioned it's own focus or lack thereof and glut. Needless to say, Wall Street would probably react quite favorably to IBM becoming the main source of Apple's processors. I'm sure IBM has a far better reputation for everything than MOT (comparable markets mind you) and perhaps even AMD (were looking great but lost + PR momentum in recent months).
Moreover, the venerable Power4's reputation is probably second only to the Alpha or at least to me it is. While most the world might not connect Apple and IBM as collaborators in terms of the G3, Apple needs to build on the connection of the
Power4 and the 970 (Power4 Lite) and get a whole brewed at IBM thing going. After all, no one was ever fired for recommending IBM.
Apple would be wise to dump the "G" moniker period. This would allow them a clean break. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the Super Computer that couldn't & stayed at 500 MHz forever while Intel/AMD started wagons a'circling. While they don't want to quite come out and say Motorola: the source of all our problems (potentially liable), they can say that IBM is the cure for all that ills them. The Power4 already has a brand Apple needs to build on that. They can even point out that if you thought Volicity Engine was bad, you should see us now kind of thing.
Imagine with Unix and Power4 in the same sentence, Apple kit starts to sound a bit like real iron. This would afford those who would, to feel they own a part of the Power4/5 franchise without paying the price which is probably why IBM found building a lite version of the Power4 so compelling anyway.
With Unix and IBM under the tent Apple's PR dept. has substantial bullets to sell. That would only leave Steve & Co. to consider creating alternative corporate type styling(s) if it's truly going to sale work stations or corporate machines. I could be wrong, but the current PRO models just don't quite meet the corporate dress code for computers. Maybe I'm wrong.
[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: ArkAngel ]</p>
<strong>
It means Apple will only have a possible 50mhz speedbump for Jan or early 2003. This is the new moto mobo G4 and we will se it early 2003. The 970 is coming out fall of 2003. So while mac users will be running naked in the streets throwing bitten apples at everyone when the leaves are turning brown, we will be quietly saving up those apples when the flowers bloom.
hehe</strong><hr></blockquote>
So you are saying we will see the PPC7457 1Q-03? Motorola's internal time table says 2Q-03. Then if the PPC7457 is coming out in Jan why will we only see a 50Mhz speed jump? Motorola shows the 7457 going up to 1.8Ghz.
PowerMac GX980
PowerMac GX990
Regarding the path, I thin it is likely that we will be dissapointed with the progress on pure Mghz until the 970 arrives. However, it does look as though even if we get a 1.3ghz MPC7457 in January the bus improvements will mean quite a jump in performance for some applications.
The road map seems to be quite clear, we are going to keep getting Moto-G4's until the PM's and PB's and xServes can swap to the 970, then we should see the eMac, iMac and iBook all adopt a new IBM G-3 with it's version of the velocity engine. at this point Motorola will be history for Apple.
We will all jump for joy, but Apple will be very vulnerable having only one supplier, IBM will hold all the cards when it comes to processor pricing, hence in my opinion Malarka. Malarka is there just to let IBM know that Apple isn't compleatly relient on them.
-------
Very good point indeed.
It is not.
Apple definitely needs more, or rather better, options.
About the naming, though, G4 stands for 'Generation 4 PowerPC Processor'. And it really was an extended G3 processor. So, yes, G5 would be okay for the PowerPC 970.
\tThe last part about marklar is great news. Apple needs to at the right moment, this moment being when apple has solid (being 970, DDR400, etc) hardware, release a x86 version of the Mac OS. For as we all know Windows sucks and with OS X at the right moment apple could steal a large market share from Mirco$oft.
\tI would also like to ask what Lagrande and Palladium are, for I have know idea. Does anyone know what these things are?
\t
Also, and this is directed to redkid, you claim to have known about the 970 before the fiasco over this chips started. I have no reason to doubt you, but could you not then let us know if this article is correct. For you seem to know much on the future of apple. In other words does this article sound correct to you? Thanks.
<a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/27047.html"; target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/27047.html</A>;
Wouldn't you know it--Intel and MS
You turn your computer on only to see a big dollar sign saying "please activate your copy of windows". Then after going through an hour hassle you finally get to use it. ( oh wait Xp is already like that!) I think if Microsoft and intel really goes through with this it will help apple to the 10th degree. Windows users will come flocking for their free will. I began to shack just reading that column! Man I hate micro$oft! Hate them hate them hate them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! die die die die die...ok I think I need to get some sleep. lol I hope I don't have nightmares after this.
<strong>
\t
Also, and this is directed to redkid, you claim to have known about the 970 before the fiasco over this chips started. I have no reason to doubt you, but could you not then let us know if this article is correct. For you seem to know much on the future of apple. In other words does this article sound correct to you? Thanks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I don't know a lot but what info I came across during the summer (and no one seemed to believe me
So to me, from what little one time info I have, this article is very, very believable.
<strong>
Revisions ... maybe??</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry, but that just doesn't follow. Revisions explain why manufacturers push back a target date, but it doesn't explain a target date announcement that far away. For IBM to announce general distribution in 2H '03 would mean they either just taped out or expect to at the end of the year or so.
It just doesn't take a year to go from tape out to production.
Somebody has to be fibbing here.
<strong>
With Unix and IBM under the tent Apple's PR dept. has substantial bullets to sell.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Your whole line of reasoning about IBM and naming the 970 Macs makes sense. I'd go so far as say IBM should make a consumer G4-like chip for Apple as well. I always wondered why the 970 numbering started so high. Maybe it is to leave room below for consumer chips in the family, like a 920 maybe?
The G3, G4, G5 naming has a simplicity to it. It would be nice to keep something like this going for the power 4 connection. Maybe GP4 or PL4. Too bad P4 is already taken.
How 'bout the B-1. As in the B-1 bomber.
mika.
Intel is shortly gonna have to swallow its own advertising.
The Itanium runs at a much lower clock speed than the current P4. They are even begining to sell the name 'Intel' and not so much the clock speed. Dell, et al, are still doing a mighty job of it though.
Long story short. The 970 will begin @ about 1.2 and scale from there. In that time frame Intel will need to start really pushing the Itanium. It currently stands in prototype form of 1Ghz. If they don't they are gonna be in a crunch. The P4 will not get bigger for ever.
[ 11-26-2002: Message edited by: zaz ]</p>
"We will all jump for joy, but Apple will be very vulnerable having only one supplier, IBM will hold all the cards when it comes to processor pricing, hence in my opinion <strong>Malarka. Malarka</strong> is there just to let IBM know that Apple isn't compleatly relient on them."
<hr></blockquote>
I think you’re spelling this code name incorrectly. I think it’s spelled Malarkey.
<strong>
I think you’re spelling this code name incorrectly. I think it’s spelled Malarkey.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What does the codename stand for? What is Malarkey exactly?
(ya, I know that's poop but do you think the PR flaks will care? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> )
<strong>
I think you’re spelling this code name incorrectly. I think it’s spelled Malarkey.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's a good one.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
IBM would gain becouse they have a real market for PowerPC boxes in their enterprise solutions, and they keep the profits from the processor, from desktop units, in house as opposed to giving them to Intel. It also would allow them to break away from Microsoft to some degree, which they have signaled with their investment in Linex that they want to do. So IBM gets a polished OS for their Enterprise Solution buisness, instead of building one oneo Linex.
Apple would gain as well. IBM would have a renued interest in making the PowerPC a competative processor for the destop and low end server market. So Apple has a pertner in the platform instead of just a suplier. IBM and Apple use a common name for the processor, and they benefit from each others advertising in building the brand identity for the CPU.
In this IBM brings their strenghts to the platform (archetecture) and Apple brings theirs (Software solutions). Apple dosnt have the same threat in this alliance that they did with the clones becouse both companies offer higher end solutions in their markets, which meet in the middle, while covering the High-end server market all the way down to the low end consumer computer.
<strong>ArchAngel, I agree with a lot of what you say. I personally think that Apple should license their OS to IBM for PowerPC corperate sales. This would include servers and desktops, but not 3rd party PowerPC computers. There is a little overlap in product between IBM and Apple, but they could work around and with this with design.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If this kind of "merger" will ever happen, I hope Apple only licenses OS X Server to IBM. Giving them the consumer version would be to risky, I guess.
But IBM is slowly transforming into a services/consulting provider. Hardware isn't very interesting to them anymore. So how about Apple making Hardware AND software for IBM?
[ 11-26-2002: Message edited by: Quick ]</p>