G5 iMac - I'm thinking it's a long way off - more likely faster G4 iMacs instead
1) The G5 chip is a serious mofo chip with all sorts of high end bandwidth and phlogistonic superpowers that it seems a waste of engineering to cram it into an iMac. Won't rip, mix, burn any faster, for example. .Mac won't get any faster.....the G4 (especially now that the 1.4 GHz G4's are no longer being sold into Powermac) is perfectly cromulent, as a baby brother Apple side Celeron-like chip. A G5 chip on a SDR FSB and old ATA drives would be like putting a 454 in a Ford Escort. All that revving, but the transmission holds you back.
2) The damn motherboard in iMac. It's specially made for iMac, small, round, etc.....How much time and money will it take to design a new one with a new chip? Wouldn't it just be easier to plop a full .42 GHz speed improved iMac onto the market, with the slightly faster FSB and last-gen (ATA, 4xAGP) interconnect tech?
3) Any G5 iMac FP would make their entry-level Powermac look unpleasant to contemplate. Better to soak up all of the $$$$ from the power user community by keeping things separate at least for a while, maybe until next winter, after Panther is released.
I think the short term solution to the iMac (and eMac) is to take all of those 1.42 and 1.25 GHz chips and slap 'em onto the current mobo.....move all of the other components up a half-generation......and while we're at it, drop a couple bucks off the price:
The Spring 2003 iMac FP (codename: Dutch Boy)
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.42 GHz PowerPC G4
167 MHz FSB
64MB NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium
256MB DDR SDRAM
100GB Ultra ATA hard drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers
$1599
15-inch LCD flat screen
1.25Hz PowerPC G4
167 MHz FSB
32 MB NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
256MB DDR SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA hard drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers
$1099
That's my thinking, based on nothing more than what would be easy and quick to do. eMacs would probably get boosted and price cut, too, but I don't really care, so you can make up your own ideas for them.....
2) The damn motherboard in iMac. It's specially made for iMac, small, round, etc.....How much time and money will it take to design a new one with a new chip? Wouldn't it just be easier to plop a full .42 GHz speed improved iMac onto the market, with the slightly faster FSB and last-gen (ATA, 4xAGP) interconnect tech?
3) Any G5 iMac FP would make their entry-level Powermac look unpleasant to contemplate. Better to soak up all of the $$$$ from the power user community by keeping things separate at least for a while, maybe until next winter, after Panther is released.
I think the short term solution to the iMac (and eMac) is to take all of those 1.42 and 1.25 GHz chips and slap 'em onto the current mobo.....move all of the other components up a half-generation......and while we're at it, drop a couple bucks off the price:
The Spring 2003 iMac FP (codename: Dutch Boy)
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.42 GHz PowerPC G4
167 MHz FSB
64MB NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium
256MB DDR SDRAM
100GB Ultra ATA hard drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers
$1599
15-inch LCD flat screen
1.25Hz PowerPC G4
167 MHz FSB
32 MB NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
256MB DDR SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA hard drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers
$1099
That's my thinking, based on nothing more than what would be easy and quick to do. eMacs would probably get boosted and price cut, too, but I don't really care, so you can make up your own ideas for them.....
Comments
Originally posted by I, Fred
1) The G5 chip is a serious mofo chip with all sorts of high end bandwidth and phlogistonic superpowers that it seems a waste of engineering to cram it into an iMac. Won't rip, mix, burn any faster, for example. .Mac won't get any faster.....the G4 (especially now that the 1.4 GHz G4's are no longer being sold into Powermac) is perfectly cromulent, as a baby brother Apple side Celeron-like chip. A G5 chip on a SDR FSB and old ATA drives would be like putting a 454 in a Ford Escort. All that revving, but the transmission holds you back.
2) The damn motherboard in iMac. It's specially made for iMac, small, round, etc.....How much time and money will it take to design a new one with a new chip? Wouldn't it just be easier to plop a full .42 GHz speed improved iMac onto the market, with the slightly faster FSB and last-gen (ATA, 4xAGP) interconnect tech?
3) Any G5 iMac FP would make their entry-level Powermac look unpleasant to contemplate. Better to soak up all of the $$$$ from the power user community by keeping things separate at least for a while, maybe until next winter, after Panther is released.
I think the short term solution to the iMac (and eMac) is to take all of those 1.42 and 1.25 GHz chips and slap 'em onto the current mobo.....move all of the other components up a half-generation......and while we're at it, drop a couple bucks off the price:
The Spring 2003 iMac FP (codename: Dutch Boy)
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.42 GHz PowerPC G4
167 MHz FSB
64MB NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium
256MB DDR SDRAM
100GB Ultra ATA hard drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers
$1599
15-inch LCD flat screen
1.25Hz PowerPC G4
167 MHz FSB
32 MB NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
256MB DDR SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA hard drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers
$1099
That's my thinking, based on nothing more than what would be easy and quick to do. eMacs would probably get boosted and price cut, too, but I don't really care, so you can make up your own ideas for them.....
You will not see a 1.42 iMac, you will see a 1.25 with the next update and the it will updated with a G5 processor. Apple wants to dump Moto altogether so by the time you have the tower going to 2.0 to 2.5 you will have a 1.6 iMac.
Originally posted by BostonMJH
You will not see a 1.42 iMac, you will see a 1.25 with the next update and the it will updated with a G5 processor. Apple wants to dump Moto altogether so by the time you have the tower going to 2.0 to 2.5 you will have a 1.6 iMac.
I agree, a lacluster iMac update, and diminishing sales. Possibly a better one for when 10.3 is released for a good switch campaign (Apple should do this with a 970, but i wont hold my breath for it). We have a low end tower now, but since it is only a 1.25 Ghz G4 I dont expect much in sales on this unit. Possibly an update to 1.4 for it by August when Apple said they would Kill OS 9 booting (the Apple store is selling the 1.25's as OS 9 booting if I remember correctly). All said, I am impressed with the G5's, but not the prices. Rigt now Apple does not have a computer that I can afford that would make me buy a new one over upgrading my Cube.
Within a year we will likely see dual3ghz (HOLY SHIT!) PowerMacs, so 1.6ghz G5 isn't crazy to think for the iMac.
1ghz G4 (now) to 1.2ghz G4 (soon?) to 1.6ghz G5? Seems reasonable to me within a year's time.
Jesus... what a problem to have.
Originally posted by groverat
Allowing the iMac to stagnate wouldn't be a very good idea.
Within a year we will likely see dual3ghz (HOLY SHIT!) PowerMacs, so 1.6ghz G5 isn't crazy to think for the iMac.
1ghz G4 (now) to 1.2ghz G4 (soon?) to 1.6ghz G5? Seems reasonable to me within a year's time.
Jesus... what a problem to have.
If the iMac is only at 1.6 Ghz, even if it is a 970, next year Apple is in more trouble in the consumer market than they are today. By then I would think that they want a 2.0-2.5 Ghz 970 in the top end iMac and an all dual PM line-up.
I think before the 970 we'd see the AltiVec powered G3s from IBM. Let the iMac be a consumer model.
The next iMac will probaby have a 1.25Ghz G4 processor and frankly it will be underwhelming. But if that's the last iMac G4 generation then I'm fine with it. Next year can be the year of the Desktop.
The Motherboard looks kind of small though in the internal pictures. Perhaps it would work.
Originally posted by fred_lj
Thing is, the iMac's already a great deal considering the tech behind it. Apple loses money on each one, right? It's basically a PowerBook with permanence.
I think before the 970 we'd see the AltiVec powered G3s from IBM. Let the iMac be a consumer model.
The G4 cant compete agenst their wintel opponents in price/performance in todays market, even if it is twice as fast mhz for mhz that only makes it a 2.5 Ghz. Dell has a 2.4 Ghz with a 64 Meg GPU, 333 mhz memory (256 MB) for $699. Apple needs to become more competative than that if they are going to GAIN market share, which is after all one of Jobs stated goals isnt it?
If the iMac is only at 1.6 Ghz, even if it is a 970, next year Apple is in more trouble in the consumer market than they are today.
I don't know if I could possibly disagree more. If the iMac is moving up in speed by a steady margin Apple is fine on that front.
Doom & Gloom over such things gets the Groverat Knife of Stabby Stabbing inserted into your body with great force. Let's not be melodramatic.
How the hell can they be in a worse position with a remarkably better product?
The G4 cant compete agenst their wintel opponents in price/performance in todays market, even if it is twice as fast mhz for mhz that only makes it a 2.5 Ghz. Dell has...
Dell is the orange to Apple's apple.
Apple has to keep those who like the Mac and maybe get a few converts. Thinking these things will help Apple take on Dell is foolishness, that's not their goal.
Keep the Mac faithful faithful. Hope they spread the word. Keep .edu buyers happy and buying. Hope they spread the word as well.
That's what the iMac should be doing. If you can make cute commercials then fantastic.
Thinking the iMac is a challenger in the ~$700 PC market... I don't even know why you bother thinking about this sort of thing.
Originally posted by I, Fred
The Spring 2003 iMac FP (codename: Dutch Boy)
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.42 GHz PowerPC G4
167 MHz FSB
64MB NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium
256MB DDR SDRAM
100GB Ultra ATA hard drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers
$1599
15-inch LCD flat screen
1.25Hz PowerPC G4
167 MHz FSB
32 MB NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
256MB DDR SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA hard drive
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K V.92 internal modem
Apple Pro Speakers
$1099
Missing something here... you're suggesting that they price a 15" iMac $200 below the repriced G4 1.25 Tower.. and for $300 more than the G4 1.25 Tower you get a G4 1.42, 17" FP and GF4 Titanium?
If Apple wants to keep the G4 in the iMac, then it needs to drop the price. Apple cannot continue to sell the iMac at it's current price by throwing in a 200 MHz faster G4 chip. It simply is not going to fly, now that the G5 has been unleased. With a price drop, maybe.
But Apple doesn't want to drop the price any further. They are not in the sub-$1000 market really, with the exception of the eMac. And remember, up until yesterday the top of the line iMac was basically a bottom of the line PowerMac G4 with no slots but a flat screen included.
Unless there is a TECHNICAL reason why it can't be done, the most logical step for Apple is to take the 1.6 GHz G5 (the new bottom of the line PowerMac chip) and get it into the iMac ASAP.
Regardless of the SPEC scores we saw today, those compare the Dual 2.0 G5 systems to the P4 3.0 and Dual Xeon 3.06 machines. Those PC machines aren't what the average PC buyer has. "Regular" consumer PC buyers have P4 1.8 to 2.4 GHz chips. The G4s don't compete SPEC-wise with those. But the G5 1.6 would be right on par with those more consumer oriented PC systems.
Apple waited for years to play catch up. Screwing around with the G4 chips for ANY longer than necessary is only going to hurt Apple. PPC 970 across the board, with the exception of maybe the iBook, is what Apple MUST complete ASAP to keep the eMac/iMac worth buying. It's going to be very hard to sell G4 machines now that the cat is out of the bag, and even if they could...it's a horrible business decision.
-- Ensoniq
Get some style or get your facts straight jackass.
what's impressive to me about the new Powermac is the advanced interconnects and throughputs in addition to the advanced chip.
Putting a G5 in an iMac without the improved assets on the mobo is pointless, other than from a dick-waving POV. Since they need a new mobo to make full use of their awesome fury, and since it's a custom job with tight requirements, I just don't expect a G5 iMac any time in 2003.
I'm willing to be wrong, however.
My guess is that they will extract yet another round or two out of the G4 and the current mobo (with tweaks), and then re-do the whole kit and kaboodle for the iMac3 in mid-to-late 2004.
Originally posted by groverat
I don't know if I could possibly disagree more. If the iMac is moving up in speed by a steady margin Apple is fine on that front.
Doom & Gloom over such things gets the Groverat Knife of Stabby Stabbing inserted into your body with great force. Let's not be melodramatic.
How the hell can they be in a worse position with a remarkably better product?
Steve stated that they should have 3.0 Ghz PM's out in 12 months. To keep up that pace on the consumer market they should be at 2 Ghz there as well. And to compete with the Wintel world they need better performance than a 1 Ghz G4 in the iMac, and in 12 months from now they will need a better processor than a 2 Ghz G4.
Originally posted by groverat
Dell is the orange to Apple's apple.
Apple has to keep those who like the Mac and maybe get a few converts. Thinking these things will help Apple take on Dell is foolishness, that's not their goal.
Keep the Mac faithful faithful. Hope they spread the word. Keep .edu buyers happy and buying. Hope they spread the word as well.
That's what the iMac should be doing. If you can make cute commercials then fantastic.
Excuse me but Dell sells computers, not oranges. Apple sells computers as well, that is how the make the bulk of their money. They have made buisness decisions to gain more revenue from "non-traditional sources", but they have stated time and time again that they are a hardware buisness. No matter how different the computer is, it is still a computer and competeing in the same market as Dell is. This is why over the past few years Apple has been loosing ground to Dell in the .edu market, schools are strapped for cash, and Dell sells a better computer dollar (retail/wholesale not cost of ownership) for dollar than Apple.
You are suggesting that Apple continure with the "Cult of Steve" marketing approach, but that and the G4's inability to scale as expected has brought Apple down to around a 3% market share. It is going to have to take more than that to bring it up.
Let us not forget the story of Betamax video, a clearly better product from the top of the line company,looses to a clearly inferior one due to price. It also happened with Comodore, Next and Be (BeOS). The only protection that Apple has from this happening is staying competative in the hardware market, or changing buisness models and becoming a software buisness.
Originally posted by groverat
Thinking the iMac is a challenger in the ~$700 PC market... I don't even know why you bother thinking about this sort of thing.
That is exactly what Apple should be doing. I'm not saying that Apple bottom end should be $699, but it should be better than any PC out there at the same price point, say $999 for arguments sake, and not just becouse it runs the Mac OS (I do know some windows users who do not like the Mac OS) but becouse it is at least as fast as them and offers comperable to better features. That is what I get when I buy a Mercedes over a Lincoln, or a Porsche over a Chevy.
So, iMac makes a substantial drop in price and opens a whole between the iMac and PM G5. When the current supply of PM G4 is exhausted, a new cube will drop into that space. Small, cool single G5. 12 months away.
I think Motorola is dead for Macs now, I don't buy the 7457 at all, the preformance loss is just going to be to much against the G5. In any event the battle is against Windows and the G4 isn't going to win customers. Games are going to be so much better with the G5.
Originally posted by Addison
I think the iMac will go 1.6ghz G5 probably in January if the G5 is bumped to 2, 2.2 & say 2.4ghz.
I think Motorola is dead for Macs now, I don't buy the 7457 at all, the preformance loss is just going to be to much against the G5. In any event the battle is against Windows and the G4 isn't going to win customers. Games are going to be so much better with the G5.
Someone else realizes that Apple IS competing agenst Windows and Intel...I just hope that Apple does, and is serious about wanting to grow their market share. They may have just released some good high end computers, and will probably gain some new buisness from them. However, I dont think that will offset the loss of buisness that they would suffer from a non-agressive road map for the evolution of the iMac/consumer computers that they offer.
The only thing I want to see a 7457 in is an upgrade card for my Cube, and until Apple comes out with an affordable 970 then they wont get me to invest in a new Mac.