I seriously doubt that Motorola is going away. Apple would be wise to have two PPC suppliers, regardless of any bad feelings about the G4.
I remember reading recently about Motorola rolling out the 7457 soon, which is basically a 7455 on a .13 micron process, with a 200MHz FSB. These chips should be capable of reaching 2GHz. I think it would be quite a good chip for the iMac, eMac, and iBook. Moto also has a dual core PPC on their roadmap now.
Apple needs to keep some seperation between the consumer and pro lines. Now that they have two levels of chips with AltiVec, it's much easier to do and still have decent OS X performace.
I also think we might see a mid-range tower/cube/headless-iMac type machine appear in the future. The G4 MDD towers on sale now fill this gap, but I think Apple will redisgn them for smaller cases and less internal expandability (1 AGP, 0 or 1 PCI?). On the other hand Apple could just be selling the G4 towers to get rid of inventory, and then they're gone for good.
I think we will see an iMac update to 1.25 GHz in July. The Current iMac was introduced Feb 03 so it time for a speed bump. Then I think we will see a 970 in Feb 04 speed 1.6 or maybe 1.8 and I do not think this is to slow for the consumer mac. Apple wants to make sure that there is a clear gap between the iMac and PowerMac.
I think we will see an iMac update to 1.25 GHz in July. The Current iMac was introduced Feb 03 so it time for a speed bump. Then I think we will see a 970 in Feb 04 speed 1.6 or maybe 1.8 and I do not think this is to slow for the consumer mac. Apple wants to make sure that there is a clear gap between the iMac and PowerMac.
They need to add 333 DDR RAM to the iMac, put a more up to date GPU in it, USB 2, and boost the speed to 1.25 or preferably a 1.4 (2.4 P4's sell for quite a bit less than iMacs, and the G4 is not twice as fast as a P4 mhz for mhz in the real world) this summer and drop the price to $1099 or $1199, then follow up with a 1.6 Ghz 970 in Feb at the same price or less (Apple should really be looking to get the iMac back down to $999 for the bottom end model) then I think they are would be on track to keep or slightly expand their market share.
If they keep the G4 tower but increase the speed to 1.4-1.6 Ghz by August (remember that the deadline for selling OS 9 machines was July of this year) and lower the price to $999 for the low end (drop the optical drive down one notch in performance, a slightly smaller HD, a 7500 video card, etc. just to get people in the door to see Jaguire and Panther) then they might be on track with an alternative to the iMac for consumers.
AND ADVERTISE THE LOW PRICE!!!!!! If people dont think they have, or want to spend the money that they think a Mac costs you will never sell them one, no matter how good the OS or hardware is. Yes its still more than a PC, but with the psychological barrier of $1000 broken you do have a better chance to sell them a Mac (Wow, for only a $100 or $200 more I can get the Porsche of computers!)
I seriously doubt that Motorola is going away. Apple would be wise to have two PPC suppliers, regardless of any bad feelings about the G4.
I remember reading recently about Motorola rolling out the 7457 soon, which is basically a 7455 on a .13 micron process, with a 200MHz FSB. These chips should be capable of reaching 2GHz. I think it would be quite a good chip for the iMac, eMac, and iBook. Moto also has a dual core PPC on their roadmap now.
Apple needs to keep some seperation between the consumer and pro lines. Now that they have two levels of chips with AltiVec, it's much easier to do and still have decent OS X performace.
I also think we might see a mid-range tower/cube/headless-iMac type machine appear in the future. The G4 MDD towers on sale now fill this gap, but I think Apple will redisgn them for smaller cases and less internal expandability (1 AGP, 0 or 1 PCI?). On the other hand Apple could just be selling the G4 towers to get rid of inventory, and then they're gone for good.
Totally Agree! Basically what some posters including myself have been saying well before the G5 announcements.
But seriously, what will the reaction be to a 1.25GHz upgrade - apart from the YAWN?. I suppose a 1.42 G4 will suffice (like NOW!) until faster G4's become available - the G4 is perfect for consumer computing and from Apple's point of view critical in the education space (eMacs/iBooks), I mean what will happen if these products are continued to be left behind in price/performance. Dont get me wrong the G5 has FIXED Apple's PRO business NOW and in the FUTURE because of IBM's announcements of further 970's, 980's.
But Apple has more fires to attend to and thats the Consumer range and one that has the most effect on marketshare (opinion!). The G5 now frees Apple to fix the Consumer range and FAST!.
But seriously, what will the reaction be to a 1.25GHz upgrade - apart from the YAWN?. I suppose a 1.42 G4 will suffice (like NOW!) until faster G4's become available - the G4 is perfect for consumer computing and from Apple's point of view critical in the education space (eMacs/iBooks), I mean what will happen if these products are continued to be left behind in price/performance. Dont get me wrong the G5 has FIXED Apple's PRO business NOW and in the FUTURE because of IBM's announcements of further 970's, 980's.
But Apple has more fires to attend to and thats the Consumer range and one that has the most effect on marketshare (opinion!). The G5 now frees Apple to fix the Consumer range and FAST!.
Oh, and spankalee welcome to AI!
8)
Thanks hasapi, though I've been a lurker here for a while. I usually don't post because someone always manages to say what I'm thinking, but I've seen too much talk about when the G5 will appear in the iMac as opposed to if that this thread caught my attention.
Apple can assuage some criticism about another G4 iMac by releasing it at a higher clock speed than the G4 towers. If the 7457s really do come out soon, maybe Apple could release a 1.6GHz G4+ iMac. A 60% increase would hopefully please some people.
Unless I'm mistaken about implementation costs for things like HyperTransport, etc., the 970 requires a more expensive system architecture. If you really need that much bandwidth, you should get a G5.
The big question in my mind then is what about the PowerBooks? MacRumors seems to have answered that for the short term, but what's the game plan? I feel like the whole line will be updated within a month. (After that, who knows if/when they'll see a 9xx chip? When FishKill goes .9 micron? That's my guess currently, and I'd say it'll happen around Feb 2004.) Sometime after that they'll update the iMacs. The sooner the better, hopefully before school starts.
IF Moto can get their 13 nm process working, and IF they increase the FSB to 200 mhz, and IF they supprot DDR RAM, and IF they can get it up to 2 Ghz in 12 months, then it might be a viable consumer processor for the next 12-18 months. And if Moto is able to get the cost of the G4 down to a level that one would expect from a move to the smaller process, then Apple might be able to make the iMacs competative enough in the short term with the G4.
However the next iteration of the G4 is Rapid IO, not Hyper Transport like the 970. This means that Apple would have to develop another chip set and mother board to support this system that is independant from the 970's. Which means a higher R&D cost to for the consumer line that in the past adopted the pro hardware config. Bottom line is an increase in the cost of the consumer line of computers. This goes agenst the whole UMA strategy that has allowed Apple to keep development costs, and product costs down to a level that they have a chance to compete in the market.
This is also 6-12 months from when the 980 is expected to hit the market (the Power 5 next year, the 980 the following year). One would expect that the 970 would move into the consumer line-up 6 months before the 980 enters the pro line up. It dosnt make sense to me that Apple would diverge the pro and consumer lines this much becouse it would add too much to the development of all Mac products in the long run.
The big question in my mind then is what about the PowerBooks? MacRumors seems to have answered that for the short term, but what's the game plan? I feel like the whole line will be updated within a month. (After that, who knows if/when they'll see a 9xx chip? When FishKill goes .9 micron? That's my guess currently, and I'd say it'll happen around Feb 2004.) Sometime after that they'll update the iMacs. The sooner the better, hopefully before school starts.
I was just thinking about the PowerBooks - since I did not address them in my reply. They indeed NEED to be updated to the 970, unless there are technical reasons precluding them (which I do not believe there are - its just that you cant put a 2GHz 970 into a PBook?). Im guessing sooner rather than later at around 1.2GHz. SJ wants everyone (creative pros) to focus their collective attention (and their wallets) to the PowerMacs for now which makes sense.
Most people are resigned to the PB upgrade to be G4, this might be a sales disaster for Apple, where only time will tell. I hope not.
Some suggest Jan 04 or later, but I feel a Sep 03, just my hunch. The 15.4" panels have been reported to be delivered to the assembler about now, suggesting an announcement within 30 days - delivery in September. This allows the iBook to either get a 7457 (if they exist?) or speed bumped G3's before the education and xmas buying season. \
Comments
I remember reading recently about Motorola rolling out the 7457 soon, which is basically a 7455 on a .13 micron process, with a 200MHz FSB. These chips should be capable of reaching 2GHz. I think it would be quite a good chip for the iMac, eMac, and iBook. Moto also has a dual core PPC on their roadmap now.
Apple needs to keep some seperation between the consumer and pro lines. Now that they have two levels of chips with AltiVec, it's much easier to do and still have decent OS X performace.
I also think we might see a mid-range tower/cube/headless-iMac type machine appear in the future. The G4 MDD towers on sale now fill this gap, but I think Apple will redisgn them for smaller cases and less internal expandability (1 AGP, 0 or 1 PCI?). On the other hand Apple could just be selling the G4 towers to get rid of inventory, and then they're gone for good.
Originally posted by BostonMJH
I think we will see an iMac update to 1.25 GHz in July. The Current iMac was introduced Feb 03 so it time for a speed bump. Then I think we will see a 970 in Feb 04 speed 1.6 or maybe 1.8 and I do not think this is to slow for the consumer mac. Apple wants to make sure that there is a clear gap between the iMac and PowerMac.
They need to add 333 DDR RAM to the iMac, put a more up to date GPU in it, USB 2, and boost the speed to 1.25 or preferably a 1.4 (2.4 P4's sell for quite a bit less than iMacs, and the G4 is not twice as fast as a P4 mhz for mhz in the real world) this summer and drop the price to $1099 or $1199, then follow up with a 1.6 Ghz 970 in Feb at the same price or less (Apple should really be looking to get the iMac back down to $999 for the bottom end model) then I think they are would be on track to keep or slightly expand their market share.
If they keep the G4 tower but increase the speed to 1.4-1.6 Ghz by August (remember that the deadline for selling OS 9 machines was July of this year) and lower the price to $999 for the low end (drop the optical drive down one notch in performance, a slightly smaller HD, a 7500 video card, etc. just to get people in the door to see Jaguire and Panther) then they might be on track with an alternative to the iMac for consumers.
AND ADVERTISE THE LOW PRICE!!!!!! If people dont think they have, or want to spend the money that they think a Mac costs you will never sell them one, no matter how good the OS or hardware is. Yes its still more than a PC, but with the psychological barrier of $1000 broken you do have a better chance to sell them a Mac (Wow, for only a $100 or $200 more I can get the Porsche of computers!)
Originally posted by spankalee
I seriously doubt that Motorola is going away. Apple would be wise to have two PPC suppliers, regardless of any bad feelings about the G4.
I remember reading recently about Motorola rolling out the 7457 soon, which is basically a 7455 on a .13 micron process, with a 200MHz FSB. These chips should be capable of reaching 2GHz. I think it would be quite a good chip for the iMac, eMac, and iBook. Moto also has a dual core PPC on their roadmap now.
Apple needs to keep some seperation between the consumer and pro lines. Now that they have two levels of chips with AltiVec, it's much easier to do and still have decent OS X performace.
I also think we might see a mid-range tower/cube/headless-iMac type machine appear in the future. The G4 MDD towers on sale now fill this gap, but I think Apple will redisgn them for smaller cases and less internal expandability (1 AGP, 0 or 1 PCI?). On the other hand Apple could just be selling the G4 towers to get rid of inventory, and then they're gone for good.
Totally Agree! Basically what some posters including myself have been saying well before the G5 announcements.
But seriously, what will the reaction be to a 1.25GHz upgrade - apart from the YAWN?. I suppose a 1.42 G4 will suffice (like NOW!) until faster G4's become available - the G4 is perfect for consumer computing and from Apple's point of view critical in the education space (eMacs/iBooks), I mean what will happen if these products are continued to be left behind in price/performance. Dont get me wrong the G5 has FIXED Apple's PRO business NOW and in the FUTURE because of IBM's announcements of further 970's, 980's.
But Apple has more fires to attend to and thats the Consumer range and one that has the most effect on marketshare (opinion!). The G5 now frees Apple to fix the Consumer range and FAST!.
Oh, and spankalee welcome to AI!
8)
Originally posted by hasapi
But seriously, what will the reaction be to a 1.25GHz upgrade - apart from the YAWN?. I suppose a 1.42 G4 will suffice (like NOW!) until faster G4's become available - the G4 is perfect for consumer computing and from Apple's point of view critical in the education space (eMacs/iBooks), I mean what will happen if these products are continued to be left behind in price/performance. Dont get me wrong the G5 has FIXED Apple's PRO business NOW and in the FUTURE because of IBM's announcements of further 970's, 980's.
But Apple has more fires to attend to and thats the Consumer range and one that has the most effect on marketshare (opinion!). The G5 now frees Apple to fix the Consumer range and FAST!.
Oh, and spankalee welcome to AI!
8)
Thanks hasapi, though I've been a lurker here for a while. I usually don't post because someone always manages to say what I'm thinking, but I've seen too much talk about when the G5 will appear in the iMac as opposed to if that this thread caught my attention.
Apple can assuage some criticism about another G4 iMac by releasing it at a higher clock speed than the G4 towers. If the 7457s really do come out soon, maybe Apple could release a 1.6GHz G4+ iMac. A 60% increase would hopefully please some people.
Unless I'm mistaken about implementation costs for things like HyperTransport, etc., the 970 requires a more expensive system architecture. If you really need that much bandwidth, you should get a G5.
The big question in my mind then is what about the PowerBooks? MacRumors seems to have answered that for the short term, but what's the game plan? I feel like the whole line will be updated within a month. (After that, who knows if/when they'll see a 9xx chip? When FishKill goes .9 micron? That's my guess currently, and I'd say it'll happen around Feb 2004.) Sometime after that they'll update the iMacs. The sooner the better, hopefully before school starts.
However the next iteration of the G4 is Rapid IO, not Hyper Transport like the 970. This means that Apple would have to develop another chip set and mother board to support this system that is independant from the 970's. Which means a higher R&D cost to for the consumer line that in the past adopted the pro hardware config. Bottom line is an increase in the cost of the consumer line of computers. This goes agenst the whole UMA strategy that has allowed Apple to keep development costs, and product costs down to a level that they have a chance to compete in the market.
This is also 6-12 months from when the 980 is expected to hit the market (the Power 5 next year, the 980 the following year). One would expect that the 970 would move into the consumer line-up 6 months before the 980 enters the pro line up. It dosnt make sense to me that Apple would diverge the pro and consumer lines this much becouse it would add too much to the development of all Mac products in the long run.
Originally posted by spankalee
The big question in my mind then is what about the PowerBooks? MacRumors seems to have answered that for the short term, but what's the game plan? I feel like the whole line will be updated within a month. (After that, who knows if/when they'll see a 9xx chip? When FishKill goes .9 micron? That's my guess currently, and I'd say it'll happen around Feb 2004.) Sometime after that they'll update the iMacs. The sooner the better, hopefully before school starts.
I was just thinking about the PowerBooks - since I did not address them in my reply. They indeed NEED to be updated to the 970, unless there are technical reasons precluding them (which I do not believe there are - its just that you cant put a 2GHz 970 into a PBook?). Im guessing sooner rather than later at around 1.2GHz. SJ wants everyone (creative pros) to focus their collective attention (and their wallets) to the PowerMacs for now which makes sense.
Most people are resigned to the PB upgrade to be G4, this might be a sales disaster for Apple, where only time will tell. I hope not.
Some suggest Jan 04 or later, but I feel a Sep 03, just my hunch. The 15.4" panels have been reported to be delivered to the assembler about now, suggesting an announcement within 30 days - delivery in September. This allows the iBook to either get a 7457 (if they exist?) or speed bumped G3's before the education and xmas buying season.