G5 iMac - I'm thinking it's a long way off - more likely faster G4 iMacs instead

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
1) The G5 chip is a serious mofo chip with all sorts of high end bandwidth and phlogistonic superpowers that it seems a waste of engineering to cram it into an iMac. Won't rip, mix, burn any faster, for example. .Mac won't get any faster.....the G4 (especially now that the 1.4 GHz G4's are no longer being sold into Powermac) is perfectly cromulent, as a baby brother Apple side Celeron-like chip. A G5 chip on a SDR FSB and old ATA drives would be like putting a 454 in a Ford Escort. All that revving, but the transmission holds you back.



2) The damn motherboard in iMac. It's specially made for iMac, small, round, etc.....How much time and money will it take to design a new one with a new chip? Wouldn't it just be easier to plop a full .42 GHz speed improved iMac onto the market, with the slightly faster FSB and last-gen (ATA, 4xAGP) interconnect tech?



3) Any G5 iMac FP would make their entry-level Powermac look unpleasant to contemplate. Better to soak up all of the $$$$ from the power user community by keeping things separate at least for a while, maybe until next winter, after Panther is released.



I think the short term solution to the iMac (and eMac) is to take all of those 1.42 and 1.25 GHz chips and slap 'em onto the current mobo.....move all of the other components up a half-generation......and while we're at it, drop a couple bucks off the price:



The Spring 2003 iMac FP (codename: Dutch Boy)



17-inch widescreen LCD

1.42 GHz PowerPC G4

167 MHz FSB

64MB NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium

256MB DDR SDRAM

100GB Ultra ATA hard drive

10/100BASE-T Ethernet

56K V.92 internal modem

Apple Pro Speakers

$1599



15-inch LCD flat screen

1.25Hz PowerPC G4

167 MHz FSB

32 MB NVIDIA GeForce4 MX

256MB DDR SDRAM

60GB Ultra ATA hard drive

10/100BASE-T Ethernet

56K V.92 internal modem

Apple Pro Speakers

$1099



That's my thinking, based on nothing more than what would be easy and quick to do. eMacs would probably get boosted and price cut, too, but I don't really care, so you can make up your own ideas for them.....
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 27
    Quote:

    Originally posted by I, Fred

    1) The G5 chip is a serious mofo chip with all sorts of high end bandwidth and phlogistonic superpowers that it seems a waste of engineering to cram it into an iMac. Won't rip, mix, burn any faster, for example. .Mac won't get any faster.....the G4 (especially now that the 1.4 GHz G4's are no longer being sold into Powermac) is perfectly cromulent, as a baby brother Apple side Celeron-like chip. A G5 chip on a SDR FSB and old ATA drives would be like putting a 454 in a Ford Escort. All that revving, but the transmission holds you back.



    2) The damn motherboard in iMac. It's specially made for iMac, small, round, etc.....How much time and money will it take to design a new one with a new chip? Wouldn't it just be easier to plop a full .42 GHz speed improved iMac onto the market, with the slightly faster FSB and last-gen (ATA, 4xAGP) interconnect tech?



    3) Any G5 iMac FP would make their entry-level Powermac look unpleasant to contemplate. Better to soak up all of the $$$$ from the power user community by keeping things separate at least for a while, maybe until next winter, after Panther is released.



    I think the short term solution to the iMac (and eMac) is to take all of those 1.42 and 1.25 GHz chips and slap 'em onto the current mobo.....move all of the other components up a half-generation......and while we're at it, drop a couple bucks off the price:



    The Spring 2003 iMac FP (codename: Dutch Boy)



    17-inch widescreen LCD

    1.42 GHz PowerPC G4

    167 MHz FSB

    64MB NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium

    256MB DDR SDRAM

    100GB Ultra ATA hard drive

    10/100BASE-T Ethernet

    56K V.92 internal modem

    Apple Pro Speakers

    $1599



    15-inch LCD flat screen

    1.25Hz PowerPC G4

    167 MHz FSB

    32 MB NVIDIA GeForce4 MX

    256MB DDR SDRAM

    60GB Ultra ATA hard drive

    10/100BASE-T Ethernet

    56K V.92 internal modem

    Apple Pro Speakers

    $1099



    That's my thinking, based on nothing more than what would be easy and quick to do. eMacs would probably get boosted and price cut, too, but I don't really care, so you can make up your own ideas for them.....




    You will not see a 1.42 iMac, you will see a 1.25 with the next update and the it will updated with a G5 processor. Apple wants to dump Moto altogether so by the time you have the tower going to 2.0 to 2.5 you will have a 1.6 iMac.
  • Reply 2 of 27
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Apple will keep moto around for another year
  • Reply 3 of 27
    @homenow@homenow Posts: 998member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BostonMJH

    You will not see a 1.42 iMac, you will see a 1.25 with the next update and the it will updated with a G5 processor. Apple wants to dump Moto altogether so by the time you have the tower going to 2.0 to 2.5 you will have a 1.6 iMac.



    I agree, a lacluster iMac update, and diminishing sales. Possibly a better one for when 10.3 is released for a good switch campaign (Apple should do this with a 970, but i wont hold my breath for it). We have a low end tower now, but since it is only a 1.25 Ghz G4 I dont expect much in sales on this unit. Possibly an update to 1.4 for it by August when Apple said they would Kill OS 9 booting (the Apple store is selling the 1.25's as OS 9 booting if I remember correctly). All said, I am impressed with the G5's, but not the prices. Rigt now Apple does not have a computer that I can afford that would make me buy a new one over upgrading my Cube.
  • Reply 4 of 27
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Allowing the iMac to stagnate wouldn't be a very good idea.



    Within a year we will likely see dual3ghz (HOLY SHIT!) PowerMacs, so 1.6ghz G5 isn't crazy to think for the iMac.



    1ghz G4 (now) to 1.2ghz G4 (soon?) to 1.6ghz G5? Seems reasonable to me within a year's time.



    Jesus... what a problem to have.
  • Reply 5 of 27
    @homenow@homenow Posts: 998member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    Allowing the iMac to stagnate wouldn't be a very good idea.



    Within a year we will likely see dual3ghz (HOLY SHIT!) PowerMacs, so 1.6ghz G5 isn't crazy to think for the iMac.



    1ghz G4 (now) to 1.2ghz G4 (soon?) to 1.6ghz G5? Seems reasonable to me within a year's time.



    Jesus... what a problem to have.




    If the iMac is only at 1.6 Ghz, even if it is a 970, next year Apple is in more trouble in the consumer market than they are today. By then I would think that they want a 2.0-2.5 Ghz 970 in the top end iMac and an all dual PM line-up.
  • Reply 6 of 27
    fred_ljfred_lj Posts: 607member
    Thing is, the iMac's already a great deal considering the tech behind it. Apple loses money on each one, right? It's basically a PowerBook with permanence.



    I think before the 970 we'd see the AltiVec powered G3s from IBM. Let the iMac be a consumer model.
  • Reply 7 of 27
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,227member
    Isn't the whole point of the PPC 970 the fact that we now have a capable high end processor?



    The next iMac will probaby have a 1.25Ghz G4 processor and frankly it will be underwhelming. But if that's the last iMac G4 generation then I'm fine with it. Next year can be the year of the Desktop.



    The Motherboard looks kind of small though in the internal pictures. Perhaps it would work.
  • Reply 8 of 27
    @homenow@homenow Posts: 998member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by fred_lj

    Thing is, the iMac's already a great deal considering the tech behind it. Apple loses money on each one, right? It's basically a PowerBook with permanence.



    I think before the 970 we'd see the AltiVec powered G3s from IBM. Let the iMac be a consumer model.




    The G4 cant compete agenst their wintel opponents in price/performance in todays market, even if it is twice as fast mhz for mhz that only makes it a 2.5 Ghz. Dell has a 2.4 Ghz with a 64 Meg GPU, 333 mhz memory (256 MB) for $699. Apple needs to become more competative than that if they are going to GAIN market share, which is after all one of Jobs stated goals isnt it?
  • Reply 9 of 27
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Quote:

    If the iMac is only at 1.6 Ghz, even if it is a 970, next year Apple is in more trouble in the consumer market than they are today.



    I don't know if I could possibly disagree more. If the iMac is moving up in speed by a steady margin Apple is fine on that front.



    Doom & Gloom over such things gets the Groverat Knife of Stabby Stabbing inserted into your body with great force. Let's not be melodramatic.



    How the hell can they be in a worse position with a remarkably better product?



    Quote:

    The G4 cant compete agenst their wintel opponents in price/performance in todays market, even if it is twice as fast mhz for mhz that only makes it a 2.5 Ghz. Dell has...



    Dell is the orange to Apple's apple.



    Apple has to keep those who like the Mac and maybe get a few converts. Thinking these things will help Apple take on Dell is foolishness, that's not their goal.



    Keep the Mac faithful faithful. Hope they spread the word. Keep .edu buyers happy and buying. Hope they spread the word as well.



    That's what the iMac should be doing. If you can make cute commercials then fantastic.



    Thinking the iMac is a challenger in the ~$700 PC market... I don't even know why you bother thinking about this sort of thing.
  • Reply 10 of 27
    mcqmcq Posts: 1,543member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by I, Fred

    The Spring 2003 iMac FP (codename: Dutch Boy)



    17-inch widescreen LCD

    1.42 GHz PowerPC G4

    167 MHz FSB

    64MB NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium

    256MB DDR SDRAM

    100GB Ultra ATA hard drive

    10/100BASE-T Ethernet

    56K V.92 internal modem

    Apple Pro Speakers

    $1599



    15-inch LCD flat screen

    1.25Hz PowerPC G4

    167 MHz FSB

    32 MB NVIDIA GeForce4 MX

    256MB DDR SDRAM

    60GB Ultra ATA hard drive

    10/100BASE-T Ethernet

    56K V.92 internal modem

    Apple Pro Speakers

    $1099




    Missing something here... you're suggesting that they price a 15" iMac $200 below the repriced G4 1.25 Tower.. and for $300 more than the G4 1.25 Tower you get a G4 1.42, 17" FP and GF4 Titanium?
  • Reply 11 of 27
    Apple can't wait too long to put the G5 in their consumer line. They'd better get them in there within 6 months or drastically drop the price of all of their consumer macs. My iMac is about to hit three years old so I'm about to start looking to upgrade and there is no way I'll spend close to $3000 CDN for an iMac G4 now that the G5s exist. The low end G5 cost the same as the 17" FP iMac.. fine the G5 comes sans monitor but the two systems really don't compare. The need to switch fast or watch their consumer sales go to crap.
  • Reply 12 of 27
    ensoniqensoniq Posts: 128member
    Though it may not be popular, I'm in the iMac G5 camp too.



    If Apple wants to keep the G4 in the iMac, then it needs to drop the price. Apple cannot continue to sell the iMac at it's current price by throwing in a 200 MHz faster G4 chip. It simply is not going to fly, now that the G5 has been unleased. With a price drop, maybe.



    But Apple doesn't want to drop the price any further. They are not in the sub-$1000 market really, with the exception of the eMac. And remember, up until yesterday the top of the line iMac was basically a bottom of the line PowerMac G4 with no slots but a flat screen included.



    Unless there is a TECHNICAL reason why it can't be done, the most logical step for Apple is to take the 1.6 GHz G5 (the new bottom of the line PowerMac chip) and get it into the iMac ASAP.



    Regardless of the SPEC scores we saw today, those compare the Dual 2.0 G5 systems to the P4 3.0 and Dual Xeon 3.06 machines. Those PC machines aren't what the average PC buyer has. "Regular" consumer PC buyers have P4 1.8 to 2.4 GHz chips. The G4s don't compete SPEC-wise with those. But the G5 1.6 would be right on par with those more consumer oriented PC systems.



    Apple waited for years to play catch up. Screwing around with the G4 chips for ANY longer than necessary is only going to hurt Apple. PPC 970 across the board, with the exception of maybe the iBook, is what Apple MUST complete ASAP to keep the eMac/iMac worth buying. It's going to be very hard to sell G4 machines now that the cat is out of the bag, and even if they could...it's a horrible business decision.



    -- Ensoniq
  • Reply 13 of 27
    kcmackcmac Posts: 1,051member
    We have an iMac 400. Looking to upgrade soon. No way am I going to buy the last G4 rev. Want a G5. Hope I don't have to wait too long.
  • Reply 14 of 27
    Hey Fred a 454 would NEVER fit in a Escort or, for that matter, any new Ford. It's a Chevy engine. If you had said "454 in a Ford Focus" I wouldn't have flamed you, that would've been an acceptable alliteration.



    Get some style or get your facts straight jackass.
  • Reply 15 of 27
    i, fredi, fred Posts: 125member
    aww, you're hurting my feelings.....like I give a rat's ass that I don't know a thing about cars.....that's what mechanics are for.



    what's impressive to me about the new Powermac is the advanced interconnects and throughputs in addition to the advanced chip.



    Putting a G5 in an iMac without the improved assets on the mobo is pointless, other than from a dick-waving POV. Since they need a new mobo to make full use of their awesome fury, and since it's a custom job with tight requirements, I just don't expect a G5 iMac any time in 2003.



    I'm willing to be wrong, however.



    My guess is that they will extract yet another round or two out of the G4 and the current mobo (with tweaks), and then re-do the whole kit and kaboodle for the iMac3 in mid-to-late 2004.
  • Reply 16 of 27
    @homenow@homenow Posts: 998member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    I don't know if I could possibly disagree more. If the iMac is moving up in speed by a steady margin Apple is fine on that front.



    Doom & Gloom over such things gets the Groverat Knife of Stabby Stabbing inserted into your body with great force. Let's not be melodramatic.



    How the hell can they be in a worse position with a remarkably better product?





    Steve stated that they should have 3.0 Ghz PM's out in 12 months. To keep up that pace on the consumer market they should be at 2 Ghz there as well. And to compete with the Wintel world they need better performance than a 1 Ghz G4 in the iMac, and in 12 months from now they will need a better processor than a 2 Ghz G4.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    Dell is the orange to Apple's apple.



    Apple has to keep those who like the Mac and maybe get a few converts. Thinking these things will help Apple take on Dell is foolishness, that's not their goal.



    Keep the Mac faithful faithful. Hope they spread the word. Keep .edu buyers happy and buying. Hope they spread the word as well.



    That's what the iMac should be doing. If you can make cute commercials then fantastic.





    Excuse me but Dell sells computers, not oranges. Apple sells computers as well, that is how the make the bulk of their money. They have made buisness decisions to gain more revenue from "non-traditional sources", but they have stated time and time again that they are a hardware buisness. No matter how different the computer is, it is still a computer and competeing in the same market as Dell is. This is why over the past few years Apple has been loosing ground to Dell in the .edu market, schools are strapped for cash, and Dell sells a better computer dollar (retail/wholesale not cost of ownership) for dollar than Apple.



    You are suggesting that Apple continure with the "Cult of Steve" marketing approach, but that and the G4's inability to scale as expected has brought Apple down to around a 3% market share. It is going to have to take more than that to bring it up.



    Let us not forget the story of Betamax video, a clearly better product from the top of the line company,looses to a clearly inferior one due to price. It also happened with Comodore, Next and Be (BeOS). The only protection that Apple has from this happening is staying competative in the hardware market, or changing buisness models and becoming a software buisness.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    Thinking the iMac is a challenger in the ~$700 PC market... I don't even know why you bother thinking about this sort of thing.



    That is exactly what Apple should be doing. I'm not saying that Apple bottom end should be $699, but it should be better than any PC out there at the same price point, say $999 for arguments sake, and not just becouse it runs the Mac OS (I do know some windows users who do not like the Mac OS) but becouse it is at least as fast as them and offers comperable to better features. That is what I get when I buy a Mercedes over a Lincoln, or a Porsche over a Chevy.
  • Reply 17 of 27
    valmadvalmad Posts: 49member
    Well they have all ready spent the money on all the development , so spreading that over as many unit sales as possible would be a good idea. So when the PM is at 2.5 put the 1.6 in the Imac, that should be in about 6 months just in time to cash in on christmas.
  • Reply 18 of 27
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    iMac makes substantial drops in price, possibly keeping the G4 or a MOTOROLA derivative to be produced at .13u and .09u next year. No moto is not gone, they can also advance the PPC to satisfactory effect once the fab situation is sorted, their partnerships will help them do it. They won't make heavyweight G5 killing product, but they'll make good, cheap, consumer stuff.



    So, iMac makes a substantial drop in price and opens a whole between the iMac and PM G5. When the current supply of PM G4 is exhausted, a new cube will drop into that space. Small, cool single G5. 12 months away.
  • Reply 19 of 27
    addisonaddison Posts: 1,185member
    I think the iMac will go 1.6ghz G5 probably in January if the G5 is bumped to 2, 2.2 & say 2.4ghz.



    I think Motorola is dead for Macs now, I don't buy the 7457 at all, the preformance loss is just going to be to much against the G5. In any event the battle is against Windows and the G4 isn't going to win customers. Games are going to be so much better with the G5.
  • Reply 20 of 27
    jcgjcg Posts: 777member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Addison

    I think the iMac will go 1.6ghz G5 probably in January if the G5 is bumped to 2, 2.2 & say 2.4ghz.



    I think Motorola is dead for Macs now, I don't buy the 7457 at all, the preformance loss is just going to be to much against the G5. In any event the battle is against Windows and the G4 isn't going to win customers. Games are going to be so much better with the G5.




    Someone else realizes that Apple IS competing agenst Windows and Intel...I just hope that Apple does, and is serious about wanting to grow their market share. They may have just released some good high end computers, and will probably gain some new buisness from them. However, I dont think that will offset the loss of buisness that they would suffer from a non-agressive road map for the evolution of the iMac/consumer computers that they offer.



    The only thing I want to see a 7457 in is an upgrade card for my Cube, and until Apple comes out with an affordable 970 then they wont get me to invest in a new Mac.
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