However, I am complaining about the new finder because it's brushed metal. My complaint is not ridiculous. Slapping the obnoxious brushed metal inerface on anything that moves is ridiculous!
I sure hope brushed metal will be an appearance option, just like "Blue" and "Graphite" are in Jaguar! I don't like hacks, and would rather not use one, especially for the Finder.
Escher
(Boy, I'm turning into a little Matsu clone. )
ok ur not rediculous, and i do too hope its an option
Wow, I am really amazed at the lack of excitement and vision by so many in the AI community regarding the keynote and Panther. Maybe I was too close to my monitor and the RDF rays, but I am quite optimistic ... and I usually have been not so "taken" by keynotes.
To wit...
Steve Jobs said (paraphrased) "I think we finally got there on the Finder with the best the world's ever seen." Can you appreciate what that little sentence signifies?!?!
This is STEVE FREAKING JOBS!!
Now I am not into Steve worship, but CRIPES! This is the guy who first introduced a color UI for the masses!!! This is the guy who introduced the MAC OS and freaking INVENTED (yeah others did the work) the FINDER ... YOUR FINDER ... Hello!!! ... the REAL reason you are not hanging out in an Wintel Forum!!! ... and HE said that (after 20+ years) they were finally getting it right!?! Again Hello! I'm sorry if I take his word over any of yours, and I do respect everyone's opinion and that's what the forums are about, but c'mon, I think he deserves the benefit of a doubt.
Okay so here is why I am excited about the new FINDER (and by the way, out of the whole Panther demo, I think Expose with Fast User Switching are best, most powerful GUI changes to come to the Mac since "window resizing," but then neither are officially the "Finder" anyway, so I'm going to be logically rigorous and discuss the FINDER only)... I apologies for lifting much of this from my previous post on the Reactions thread, but cutting and pasting are cool too.
The new Finder is, in my estimation, MUCH better (with all due respect to the previous comments). It actually does what the name sez, no more, no less .... after how many decades?!?
First in regards to the Finder, some say that it isn't much of a change, just moving a horizontal row of icons to a left-hand subwindow. Au contraire! The move of the "favorites" bar from the top to the left is not just a smoke and mirrors change for the sake of change. How many of you have for years worried about losing vertical real estate in the era of widescreen displays ... to the dock, etc. Suddenly that problem is addressed, thanks for coming. The graphite top bar looks like it still takes up too many pixels, but it is a better use of real estate!
Second, when you move the drives and faves to the left you now have a whole column to work with. This way you can add as many icons and folders as you may want in a more vertical and elegant way. You can't do that with those things on a horizontal bar. I also assume the Finder will continue to emulate iTunes and we will see "smart" folders (piles?) brought to the left-hand window. Folders named "My last 10 Pagemaker projects" or "All Photoshop files greater than 10 megs" ... constantly being updated and monitored.
Third, the slow convergent evolution of the Finder, iTunes, iPhoto, iEtc. windows is a GREAT thing. It makes it intuitive and easy to go from one iApp to another and not have to hunt around ('a la Windowsland) to figure out where everything will be. Guess what? I now can predict the basic layout of every iApp that from now on Apple will come up with ... at least a fair stretch into the future. Don't think that is insignificant to developers, power-users as well as my grandmother!
Fourth: Fast searching in every OS window in a consistant spot and yes it looks FAST! That along with contextual Actions at the click of a button are also fine/suble improvements that actually make logical sense. Common sense items like these have become rather bland in the QExtreme we live in.
Fifth, we now see that the inconsistent convention of stripes vs. brushed metal for apps vs. Finder vs. utilities, etc. now has been given a unified theory. That theory states that "All things you need to deal with on your digital hub will be the same (hopefully THEMEABLE!!) look. They will be consistent and innocuous by default without the disruptive throbbing blue icons that bothered developers and creative-types. All digital hub windows will look and function on this same analogy." That means now there is no arbitrary thematic differences between iApps, Finder and other "basic" programs. THAT is what I see as being "user-centric" vs. "computer-centric." Users not familiar with the Mac's historical use of the term "finder" will not have to think about it being any different than Sherlock or iTunes. It is a tool for getting stuff out of the computer, period.
Sixth, was "Hide Extensions" on previous OSX finder windows? What a nice thing, especially for developers.
Lastly, people have been commenting that the new Finder looks so Windoze-like. What?!?! Having the "Home", "Favorites" and other browser-like icons on the top bar has been the REAL homage to M$. I've never liked the Home icon in the first place. I never use it. 4 years ago it was cool and all the rage to make all windows look like webpages because people could follow the analogy through to OS navigation. Microsoft jumped into that pool and used it as an excuse to keep IE bundled with Windows. Panther proves that Apple is turning away from that direction and I for one am glad. Safari has evolved the look and feel of browsing and I see now reason to have ANY aspect of the Finder resemble IE or Netscape windows ever again!
Now for what I don't like....
1. Yeah, I don't really like the brushed graphite look on everything. I like the option, but it would have been so cool for Steve to have demoed some customizations! I, however, am assuming that there will be some control of Appearance. I would eventually like to see a Preferences Panel check box that would (system wide) put a "Theme" button next to the "Action" button so that a library of themes could be accessed on the fly from each window! 8)
2. The top of the Finder window has too much unused area.
3. I don't quite get the idea of how color is used in labeling folders and name boxes. It seems distracting, like iCal colors all over the system.
Well I think that is it. I am really not being condescending to anyone elses opinions. I just really think the understated power of the new Finder is being .... well, too understated by most folks.
I think that especially at a DEVELOPERS conference, these are very good characteristics for developers to see come to the OS.
And I think many are not lending enough weight to the fact that Steve Jobs probably thinks it is the best Finder he has ever demonstrated .... and THAT is saying ALOT!!!
(Boy, I'm turning into a little Matsu clone. ) [/B]
Nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW, speaking of Matsu (whose posts I really like) with the ease of iChat AV soon to be available ... don't you just want to see what kormac really looks like?
BTW, speaking of Matsu (whose posts I really like) with the ease of iChat AV soon to be available ... don't you just want to see what kormac really looks like?
MacGregor: It certainly would be fun to AV-chat with Kormac, you, or Matsu. I was waiting for retail availability fo the iSight. There is no education discount on it so I might as well pick it up at my local Apple Store. But then I realized that the iSight won't run on my iBook/500. So I'll have to wait to get it until I order a new PowerBook later this year. \
MacGregor: It certainly would be fun to AV-chat with Kormac, you, or Matsu. I was waiting for retail availability fo the iSight. There is no education discount on it so I might as well pick it up at my local Apple Store. But then I realized that the iSight won't run on my iBook/500. So I'll have to wait to get it until I order a new PowerBook later this year. \
Escher
Yeah, I can picture it now.... someone trying to come off as a true insider AV chatting in disguise or in the shadows.
I'm actually hopping on my legs in mock urgently-needing-to-pee stance with enthusiasm about Panther, and I know I can get used to much (e.g. I finally caved in and accepted metal in Safari - plus side: you can drag the window from more than just the little top bar -). I'm guessing that would be one of the pluses of metal Finder. However, I still prefer Aqua, and for what I've seen, Aqua is about to improve a very great deal, so I'm kind of sad about THAT aspect, but for the rest: wow. So many improvements great and small...
Yeah, I can picture it now.... someone trying to come off as a true insider AV chatting in disguise or in the shadows.
I never thought of that! Hilarious, to think of what workerbee would have had to do in AV chatting to stay annonimous. I guess non-AV forums will be around for a long time.
i'm not very pleased, i hope you can make it look the old way
and for my finder i really don't want brushed metal
I think I like the new finder. Anything is an improvement over those old open/save dialogue boxes of 10.0-10.2. What was Apple thinking? After 2 years of using X, I still have to hesitate and think about how to navigate when one of those things opens.
It's true, it does remind me of XP, but that's OK -- no reason not to borrow from XP if it is useful. Steve Jobs was right at the keynote -- it was stupid to have to go four columns away to find your folders every time.
Also, are we going to be able to fill up that empty space at the top with "Path", "Eject", "Delete", "Get Info" and "Burn" icons, like we could before? Or is what we see what we get? I liked having those features readily available in the old finder. And now that things like "Home" and "Computer" and "Applications" are out of the way and on the left, those other things will be more readily accessible.
Also, are we going to be able to fill up that empty space at the top with "Path", "Eject", "Delete", "Get Info" and "Burn" icons, like we could before? Or is what we see what we get? I liked having those features readily available in the old finder. And now that things like "Home" and "Computer" and "Applications" are out of the way and on the left, those other things will be more readily accessible.
Yes but for example, a CD or Disk Image that shows up on the left hand pane has an eject icon next to it. I imagine that eventually a blank CD-R inserted into your computer will show up in this pane and show a burn icon next to it too.
Having the "Home", "Favorites" and other browser-like icons on the top bar has been the REAL homage to M$. I've never liked the Home icon in the first place. I never use it. 4 years ago it was cool and all the rage to make all windows look like webpages because people could follow the analogy through to OS navigation.
unix had the concept of "home directory" long before the concept of a home page or a browser existed. the home button in the finder refers to the unix concept of home directory, although i can understand that there is conceptual overlap with a browser's home button.
as a long time unix/linux user, i use home button all the time (and have a shortcut to it in the dock as well).
hey, if metal is the only way i am going to get window borders back so i can grab windows by any edge, then i'll take it.
but you would think that apple, since they control the "whole widget" and the os and set the stanndards by which that os is configured, could decide once and for all what the rules are. iapps = metal? all os = metal? c'mon, cupertino. flip a coin, if you must.
unix had the concept of "home directory" long before the concept of a home page or a browser existed. the home button in the finder refers to the unix concept of home directory, although i can understand that there is conceptual overlap with a browser's home button.
as a long time unix/linux user, i use home button all the time (and have a shortcut to it in the dock as well).
Thanks for explaining that ruud, I never understood the purpose OR the ontogeny of the "Home" concept.
Placebo: Boy, that Disk Utility window is eye-strain to figure out!
I actually like the metal. It is darker than Aqua and shows off buttons and emphasizes color much better.
The extra roomy window edges may make it easier to grab, but I still hope you can tweak things like that yourself....and has been said earlier, I hope some system appropriate buttons can be added to the top bar. One good one would be for changing themes, kind of like changing Visualizations in iTunes.
Comments
I use this all the time w/ preview.
The new finder looks good to me and I cant wait to try it.
Originally posted by Escher
However, I am complaining about the new finder because it's brushed metal. My complaint is not ridiculous. Slapping the obnoxious brushed metal inerface on anything that moves is ridiculous!
I sure hope brushed metal will be an appearance option, just like "Blue" and "Graphite" are in Jaguar! I don't like hacks, and would rather not use one, especially for the Finder.
Escher
(Boy, I'm turning into a little Matsu clone.
ok ur not rediculous, and i do too hope its an option
To wit...
Steve Jobs said (paraphrased) "I think we finally got there on the Finder with the best the world's ever seen." Can you appreciate what that little sentence signifies?!?!
This is STEVE FREAKING JOBS!!
Now I am not into Steve worship, but CRIPES! This is the guy who first introduced a color UI for the masses!!! This is the guy who introduced the MAC OS and freaking INVENTED (yeah others did the work) the FINDER ... YOUR FINDER ... Hello!!! ... the REAL reason you are not hanging out in an Wintel Forum!!! ... and HE said that (after 20+ years) they were finally getting it right!?! Again Hello! I'm sorry if I take his word over any of yours, and I do respect everyone's opinion and that's what the forums are about, but c'mon, I think he deserves the benefit of a doubt.
Okay so here is why I am excited about the new FINDER (and by the way, out of the whole Panther demo, I think Expose with Fast User Switching are best, most powerful GUI changes to come to the Mac since "window resizing," but then neither are officially the "Finder" anyway, so I'm going to be logically rigorous and discuss the FINDER only)... I apologies for lifting much of this from my previous post on the Reactions thread, but cutting and pasting are cool too.
The new Finder is, in my estimation, MUCH better (with all due respect to the previous comments). It actually does what the name sez, no more, no less .... after how many decades?!?
First in regards to the Finder, some say that it isn't much of a change, just moving a horizontal row of icons to a left-hand subwindow. Au contraire! The move of the "favorites" bar from the top to the left is not just a smoke and mirrors change for the sake of change. How many of you have for years worried about losing vertical real estate in the era of widescreen displays ... to the dock, etc. Suddenly that problem is addressed, thanks for coming. The graphite top bar looks like it still takes up too many pixels, but it is a better use of real estate!
Second, when you move the drives and faves to the left you now have a whole column to work with. This way you can add as many icons and folders as you may want in a more vertical and elegant way. You can't do that with those things on a horizontal bar. I also assume the Finder will continue to emulate iTunes and we will see "smart" folders (piles?) brought to the left-hand window. Folders named "My last 10 Pagemaker projects" or "All Photoshop files greater than 10 megs" ... constantly being updated and monitored.
Third, the slow convergent evolution of the Finder, iTunes, iPhoto, iEtc. windows is a GREAT thing. It makes it intuitive and easy to go from one iApp to another and not have to hunt around ('a la Windowsland) to figure out where everything will be. Guess what? I now can predict the basic layout of every iApp that from now on Apple will come up with ... at least a fair stretch into the future. Don't think that is insignificant to developers, power-users as well as my grandmother!
Fourth: Fast searching in every OS window in a consistant spot and yes it looks FAST! That along with contextual Actions at the click of a button are also fine/suble improvements that actually make logical sense. Common sense items like these have become rather bland in the QExtreme we live in.
Fifth, we now see that the inconsistent convention of stripes vs. brushed metal for apps vs. Finder vs. utilities, etc. now has been given a unified theory. That theory states that "All things you need to deal with on your digital hub will be the same (hopefully THEMEABLE!!) look. They will be consistent and innocuous by default without the disruptive throbbing blue icons that bothered developers and creative-types. All digital hub windows will look and function on this same analogy." That means now there is no arbitrary thematic differences between iApps, Finder and other "basic" programs. THAT is what I see as being "user-centric" vs. "computer-centric." Users not familiar with the Mac's historical use of the term "finder" will not have to think about it being any different than Sherlock or iTunes. It is a tool for getting stuff out of the computer, period.
Sixth, was "Hide Extensions" on previous OSX finder windows? What a nice thing, especially for developers.
Lastly, people have been commenting that the new Finder looks so Windoze-like. What?!?! Having the "Home", "Favorites" and other browser-like icons on the top bar has been the REAL homage to M$. I've never liked the Home icon in the first place. I never use it. 4 years ago it was cool and all the rage to make all windows look like webpages because people could follow the analogy through to OS navigation. Microsoft jumped into that pool and used it as an excuse to keep IE bundled with Windows. Panther proves that Apple is turning away from that direction and I for one am glad. Safari has evolved the look and feel of browsing and I see now reason to have ANY aspect of the Finder resemble IE or Netscape windows ever again!
Now for what I don't like....
1. Yeah, I don't really like the brushed graphite look on everything. I like the option, but it would have been so cool for Steve to have demoed some customizations! I, however, am assuming that there will be some control of Appearance. I would eventually like to see a Preferences Panel check box that would (system wide) put a "Theme" button next to the "Action" button so that a library of themes could be accessed on the fly from each window! 8)
2. The top of the Finder window has too much unused area.
3. I don't quite get the idea of how color is used in labeling folders and name boxes. It seems distracting, like iCal colors all over the system.
Well I think that is it. I am really not being condescending to anyone elses opinions. I just really think the understated power of the new Finder is being .... well, too understated by most folks.
I think that especially at a DEVELOPERS conference, these are very good characteristics for developers to see come to the OS.
And I think many are not lending enough weight to the fact that Steve Jobs probably thinks it is the best Finder he has ever demonstrated .... and THAT is saying ALOT!!!
Originally posted by Escher
(Boy, I'm turning into a little Matsu clone.
Nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW, speaking of Matsu (whose posts I really like) with the ease of iChat AV soon to be available ... don't you just want to see what kormac really looks like?
Originally posted by MacGregor
BTW, speaking of Matsu (whose posts I really like) with the ease of iChat AV soon to be available ... don't you just want to see what kormac really looks like?
MacGregor: It certainly would be fun to AV-chat with Kormac, you, or Matsu. I was waiting for retail availability fo the iSight. There is no education discount on it so I might as well pick it up at my local Apple Store. But then I realized that the iSight won't run on my iBook/500. So I'll have to wait to get it until I order a new PowerBook later this year.
Escher
Originally posted by Escher
MacGregor: It certainly would be fun to AV-chat with Kormac, you, or Matsu. I was waiting for retail availability fo the iSight. There is no education discount on it so I might as well pick it up at my local Apple Store. But then I realized that the iSight won't run on my iBook/500. So I'll have to wait to get it until I order a new PowerBook later this year.
Escher
Yeah, I can picture it now.... someone trying to come off as a true insider AV chatting in disguise or in the shadows.
Originally posted by der Kopf
Most often heard reaction: it looks like XP. (even by people who don't really know what they are looking at - i.e. the new finder -)
You must admit just because the things on the right look like xp dosen't mean there not useful.
Originally posted by Akumulator
Yeah, I can picture it now.... someone trying to come off as a true insider AV chatting in disguise or in the shadows.
I never thought of that! Hilarious, to think of what workerbee would have had to do in AV chatting to stay annonimous. I guess non-AV forums will be around for a long time.
?to think of what workerbee would have had to do in AV chatting to stay annonimous.
Originally posted by ast3r3x
i'm not very pleased, i hope you can make it look the old way
and for my finder i really don't want brushed metal
I think I like the new finder. Anything is an improvement over those old open/save dialogue boxes of 10.0-10.2. What was Apple thinking? After 2 years of using X, I still have to hesitate and think about how to navigate when one of those things opens.
It's true, it does remind me of XP, but that's OK -- no reason not to borrow from XP if it is useful. Steve Jobs was right at the keynote -- it was stupid to have to go four columns away to find your folders every time.
Also, are we going to be able to fill up that empty space at the top with "Path", "Eject", "Delete", "Get Info" and "Burn" icons, like we could before? Or is what we see what we get? I liked having those features readily available in the old finder. And now that things like "Home" and "Computer" and "Applications" are out of the way and on the left, those other things will be more readily accessible.
Originally posted by neurokid
Also, are we going to be able to fill up that empty space at the top with "Path", "Eject", "Delete", "Get Info" and "Burn" icons, like we could before? Or is what we see what we get? I liked having those features readily available in the old finder. And now that things like "Home" and "Computer" and "Applications" are out of the way and on the left, those other things will be more readily accessible.
Yes but for example, a CD or Disk Image that shows up on the left hand pane has an eject icon next to it. I imagine that eventually a blank CD-R inserted into your computer will show up in this pane and show a burn icon next to it too.
AND this style of metal?
Not to mention the fact that the menubar at the top of the screen isn't either of the types of metals! Inconsistency sucks.
Originally posted by MacGregor
Having the "Home", "Favorites" and other browser-like icons on the top bar has been the REAL homage to M$. I've never liked the Home icon in the first place. I never use it. 4 years ago it was cool and all the rage to make all windows look like webpages because people could follow the analogy through to OS navigation.
unix had the concept of "home directory" long before the concept of a home page or a browser existed. the home button in the finder refers to the unix concept of home directory, although i can understand that there is conceptual overlap with a browser's home button.
as a long time unix/linux user, i use home button all the time (and have a shortcut to it in the dock as well).
but you would think that apple, since they control the "whole widget" and the os and set the stanndards by which that os is configured, could decide once and for all what the rules are. iapps = metal? all os = metal? c'mon, cupertino. flip a coin, if you must.
Originally posted by ruud
unix had the concept of "home directory" long before the concept of a home page or a browser existed. the home button in the finder refers to the unix concept of home directory, although i can understand that there is conceptual overlap with a browser's home button.
as a long time unix/linux user, i use home button all the time (and have a shortcut to it in the dock as well).
Thanks for explaining that ruud, I never understood the purpose OR the ontogeny of the "Home" concept.
I actually like the metal. It is darker than Aqua and shows off buttons and emphasizes color much better.
The extra roomy window edges may make it easier to grab, but I still hope you can tweak things like that yourself....and has been said earlier, I hope some system appropriate buttons can be added to the top bar. One good one would be for changing themes, kind of like changing Visualizations in iTunes.