What now for Apple?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Since the introduction of the G4 Apple have been working uber overtime in delivering the most cool software and accesories to go along with it but have been held back by the hardware.



Yesterday that changed. So now they have the best software portfolio AND the system to build the future on (just waiting to trickle down). SO now what? What is the thing holding them back innovation wise now in your opinion. I won´t take price as an answer. It will trickle down eventually.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 30
    stoostoo Posts: 1,490member
    Quote:

    What is the thing holding them back innovation wise now in your opinion.



    I know! I know!



    Quote:

    I won´t take price as an answer



    OK then, apart from price it's probably a lack of acceptance in the business market: I can't imagine that Apple's market share is going to suddenly go back to double figures. Also, the PowerMacs aren't really consumer prodcuts. Both the iMac and eMac still use the G4, so an update to a single 1.8GHz 970 in the not too distant future (end of the summer) would be nice.



    Edit: Apple will probably be selling them as fast as (or faster ) than they can be produced for the first few months, so high prices are to be expected.



    How far would you imagine prices will fall? Would this be reasonable three months after shipping?

    PowerMac 1.6GHz Dual 1.8GHz Dual 2.0GHz

    Current $2000 $2399 $2999

    Reduction $1599 $1999 $2599
  • Reply 2 of 30
    rageousrageous Posts: 2,170member
    I think one thing is holding them back, and that's an even faster G5. This 3Ghz G5 that SJ spoke about could be key. Once they throw those into the Powermacs, they can really ramp up the other models.





    Sidenote:

    If it truly is a year away, I'd love to see Apple spend this next year implemeting the current G5s into all the other models. Picture this:



    12 months from now, Apple comes out with the 3Ghz G5. Simulataneously they announce all eMac and iBook lines upgraded to 1.6Ghz G5s, iMacs and Powerbooks get 1.8s and 2.0s, and the Powermacs get a 2.4, Dual 2.4s, and Dual 3.0s.



    Completely unrealistic, but it would make a massive statement to the computing world.
  • Reply 3 of 30
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rageous

    I think one thing is holding them back, and that's an even faster G5.



  • Reply 4 of 30
    rageousrageous Posts: 2,170member
    Don't mistake what I'm saying. I have no problem with the new G5. i think it's amazing.



    My point is Apple is bent on not having one machine step on another ones turf, and once they get the faster G5, I think they're in a position to drop the G4, set the other machines up with G5s and have them all happily coexist and not be fighting each other for sales.
  • Reply 5 of 30
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rageous

    Don't mistake what I'm saying. I have no problem with the new G5. i think it's amazing.



    My point is Apple is bent on not having one machine step on another ones turf, and once they get the faster G5, I think they're in a position to drop the G4, set the other machines up with G5s and have them all happily coexist and not be fighting each other for sales.




    They are not in the position to drop the G4 because that would make the "lower end" products with these "slower" G5's outsell PowerMacs simply based on price...that is why Apple will take its time in putting the G5 across the line.
  • Reply 6 of 30
    Price. Sorry, but that is the sticking point. Because I look at the Switchers (the Apple faithful will buy any new Mac...if they can afford it in these days...). IF the pricing does come down (6-12 months from now) a Switcher will find a better deal and/or by 6-12 months from now Intel or whoever will already have a faster chip.



    I announced to some co-workers about these new G5s and the first thing that came out their mouths (besides price) was "When they have the software I use...maybe." Yes, I did indicate all the iApps, Mail, MS Word et al....butgames too. Again, Apple still has to sway the "Dark Side" to their products by revealing all the developers out there that are creating software for OSX and push other developers on the fence to join in.



    C'mon, in this economy price is everything. Apple better have some great deals and advertise the **** out there on TV and print about the benefits and features they can provide at a good price. None of this subtle miandering bullshit advertising...real details and real deals.



    I think that Apple could do this. They just have to adapt to a new marketing scheme and provide the deals/details the consumer needs to know.
  • Reply 7 of 30
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Artman @_@

    [B]None of this subtle miandering bullshit advertising...real details and real deals.



    I think that Apple could do this. They just have to adapt to a new marketing scheme and provide the deals/details the consumer needs to know.




    Wow, what an accurate description of Apple's marketing! Seriously, the only reason they had to pull that "miandering bullshit advdertising" is because before now Apple really wasnt as competitive, so they had to beat around the bush.
  • Reply 8 of 30
    rageousrageous Posts: 2,170member
    I think availability hurts them more than price. This is America. people will buy expensive shit they can't afford just for bragging rights. But they need to have access to them to purchase them.



    Wintel boxes are available at every store you walk into these days. Apple need to get their machines into the publics face. They need more outlets for their products, period.
  • Reply 9 of 30
    rageousrageous Posts: 2,170member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Artman @_@

    ....butgames too.



    Unfortunately, game are indeed a large part of the problem. As much as I don't want to see Macs being a toy platform, it's probably a necessity to gain large market numbers.
  • Reply 10 of 30
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rageous

    I think availability hurts them more than price. This is America. people will buy expensive shit they can't afford just for bragging rights. But they need to have access to them to purchase them.



    Wintel boxes are available at every store you walk into these days. Apple need to get their machines into the publics face. They need more outlets for their products, period.




    I agree to some extent...but putting iMacs and G5's near or next dingy white, silver painted and beige Wintel boxes has always unsettled me. It's like selling Kias next toFerraris.



    That's why Apple has there own stores. Plus all the wankers with "disposable income" these days will probably buy Macs here and brag about that too...



    My main concern with Apple has always been their weak, bullshit advertising and marketing. Deals and details Apple, deals and details...
  • Reply 11 of 30
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rageous

    Unfortunately, game are indeed a large part of the problem. As much as I don't want to see Macs being a toy platform, it's probably a necessity to gain large market numbers.



    I have friends who use their Wintel boxes only for gaming, and do you think they even paid for the games? They're all cracked, all pirated (even the operating system). I don't think games'll help that much? well, for software, anyway. But hardware can't be pirated (too bad ), so maybe it'll seduce them enough to switch?



    My friend Erick's already drooling over the G5 more than I am, looking at it between trying to crack a copy of Mechwarrior on his PC.
  • Reply 12 of 30
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Artman @_@

    It's like selling Kias next toFerraris.



    And Kia has better marketing, too! Like the one where the shopping cart is chasing after the Kia owner, and then it goes off a cliff and explodes for no reason. Ahahah? but, anyway?
  • Reply 13 of 30
    stoostoo Posts: 1,490member
    I have only just noticed that the middle machine isn't dual. Dual 1.8GHz 970sas a mid-range machine would be nice.
  • Reply 14 of 30
    Some observations from a PC user...



    I'm debating the switch. The products look awesome. I drool when I walk into an Apple store. The reason I would switch is for improved reliability. I'm frustrated that XP performance seems to degrade with time. Mcgaffee (sp) firewall crashes constantly, so I disabled it because I don't have time to fart with it. I'm frustrated that I bought PC software to make CD Videos but I get an "Out of Memory" crash every time I try. Perception is that Mac will make these problems go away.



    What will stop me from buying Apple? Not performance, as I am coming from a 500mhz Athlon and a 600mhz Celeron. (ie, I have the perception that a 1 or 1.25ghz G4 will provide an acceptable performance improvement, though every little bit counts). What will stop me is the perception that Macs are going away; Dwindling market share (http://www.pegasus3d.com/total_share.html), Adobe and Microsoft dropping support. Bolster that market share at the expense of profit for a year. All of the sudden you have an up and coming product, rather than a fringe market product.



    Make the LCD on the iMac seperable from the iMac itself and upgrade the iMac G4 to 1.25 or 1.42 Ghz... Better yet, put a G5 in the high end of the line... Do it PRONTO!



    Price is a concern, but then again the [perception of] better quality seems worth the money. I'm trying to find out if I can get a PC with the same level of quality/reliability. Reality is; I set a budget. If I buy a PC then all of that budget goes to hardware. If I buy a Mac, then some goes to hardware and some to software. Apple's monitors are beautiful but overpriced ($700 starting price)... I want a $400 17" LCD, but would settle for $500. Better not be a loss of quality or style though!!!



    Apple needs to find a way to bolster platform independent solutions such as .net (or Java). That way when customers debate their upgrade path, they find out that all their existing software works as well (or better) on a Mac as it did on a PC. Then again, Java performance will never match native performance. What ever happened to that Java in hardware contraption that Sun was supposed to have? Strike a deal (i.e. bite the bullet and pay Microsoft whatever they want) with Microsoft to get them to deploy .net on the Mac. Microsoft benefits from this too because their main fears right now are Linux and Java. Porting .net to Mac helps fight on both fronts; .net becomes cross platform compatible, like java. Lack of .net on Linux hurts Linux adoption. Of course Microsoft recognizes that Mac market share could explode if it gets momentum. Windows is their bread and butter. They might say no at any price unless Apple can promise them equal levels of profit off of their .Net framework (which would get deployed on all Macs).





    Drop the iBooks. Fix the problems with Aqua instability in dual G4 machines. I see people having problems with them and I second guess the Apple=Reliability formula.
  • Reply 15 of 30
    paulpaul Posts: 5,278member
    if you haven't used a mac for more then an hour at a time, chances are you won't get a feel for the reliability you speak of...



    just get a cheap iBook or an old iMac and make the switch gradually... you don't have to jump in headfirst...



    Apple isn't going to drop the iBook-it is their best seller and gets a LOT of switchers...



    try it for a few months... if you don't like it you can always sell your mac on eBay with a minimum amount of loss because macs hold their value very well...



    but most of all, don't be afraid to ask about things you don't understand here... chances are you are just unfamiliar with it and there probably is an easier way to do what you want... Most things you want to do with your computer should take less then 5 click... if fact 5 is way too many... more like 3 if you have your system setup correctly... and I am considering double-clicks as 2 clicks...
  • Reply 16 of 30
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    The stability of the Dual G4s has more to do with them pushing the limits of what those chips and motherboards can do rather than OS X running on them. in some ways the eMacs and iMacs are probably a little more stable than the dual G4's.



    You could buy a 12 inch power book and then hook up a nice 20 inch apple display to it... that would be a SWEET set up for a switcher.
  • Reply 17 of 30
    Yeah... Theres this little thing called budget... I'd get a powerbook if I could get it plus software for within my budget... $1700.... Its not happening.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by chu_bakka

    The stability of the Dual G4s has more to do with them pushing the limits of what those chips and motherboards can do rather than OS X running on them. in some ways the eMacs and iMacs are probably a little more stable than the dual G4's.



    You could buy a 12 inch power book and then hook up a nice 20 inch apple display to it... that would be a SWEET set up for a switcher.




  • Reply 18 of 30
    Thanks Paul! Also, I guess I don't mean drop the iBook...maybe just put the G4 in it.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Paul



    Apple isn't going to drop the iBook-it is their best seller and gets a LOT of switchers...



    but most of all, don't be afraid to ask about things you don't understand here... chances are you are just unfamiliar with it and there probably is an easier way to do what you want... Most things you want to do with your computer should take less then 5 click... if fact 5 is way too many... more like 3 if you have your system setup correctly... and I am considering double-clicks as 2 clicks...




  • Reply 19 of 30
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Jukebox Hero

    What will stop me is the perception that Macs are going away; Dwindling market share (http://www.pegasus3d.com/total_share.html), Adobe and Microsoft dropping support.



    It took a PC user to see things clearly. Speed is not holding Macs back - outside of extremely narrow markets, speed is only something geeks on these types of boards worry about. And I don't think it's price either - sure there are very cheap PCs, but there are eMacs in a decent price range. (See below).*



    The problem is market share, and the perception that you're swimming upstream when you go with a Mac. I don't think anyone seriously thinks Macs are going away - Apple is doing too well right now. But it's about compatibility with others and availability of software, and that's related to market share. 5% or less just isn't enough to get traction for switching in large numbers.



    * And I think this is why Apple's prices remain high. If they cut prices to regain market share, 1) it wouldn't work because price isn't as important a factor as people think, and 2) they'd start losing money, and then they really would go away.
  • Reply 20 of 30
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    It's one of those damnable self-eating watermelons. If they do THIS they're screwed. If they do THAT, well they're screwed too.



    I do, however, think they (Apple) themselves aren't doing their part enough to simply dispel the various compatibility/reliability myths.



    How come we - as Mac users and devotees - know all this stuff but the average Joe thinks a) Apple is going bankrupt b) Macs are only for graphics c) Microsoft doesn't make stuff for Macs d) etc.



    It's squarely, 100% Apple's fault that people continue to honestly believe and think this nonsense. They've not lifted a finger to truly - in a strong, impactful and meaningful way - address this type of stuff.



    Honestly? There's no reason a student or consumer or digital photo/video hobbyist (or pro), writer, music fan, surfer, e-mailer, web-page builder, etc. SHOULDN'T get a Mac. The software is there. The OS is there. The hardware is more than adequate for this type of user. Office is available. All the popular Internet media players, plug-ins, etc. are available. Goodness knows all the major graphics/publishing/imagine software is healthy on our side. We have tons of cool little shareware and "mom and pop" software companies making specialized tools and utilities and fun stuff.



    The only reason Apple's marketshare isn't at 10% (and knocking on 15% or more) is because they do absolutely NOTHING to make the average guy-on-the-street (who doesn't live at Mac news and rumor sites) know that they are safe and are making a smart, fine purchase that will meet their needs for years to come.



    I can't think of one person in my circle of PC-using friends and family who couldn't switch to the Mac tomorrow morning (and honestly, be happier for it because they're ALL currently struggling with digital photography, music and video solutions on the PC side). But they just aren't aware of benefits and goodness.



    I tell them. Hell, I show them. Time and again. But I guess I'm not the authority figure they need to see and hear it from?



    Come on, Apple. It's YOUR responsibility to better tout your wares. Not mine. Not all of us. We more than do our part. Would be nice to have some help from the company itself!



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