So, is it a good idea to replace Jaguar with Panther as my full-time OS?
I'll quote a favorite old answer to questions like this:
If you have to ask, then this is not for you.
Seriously, folks, how many times do we have to go over this? Releases like this are meant for developers who routinely back up their data. Releases like this are not meant to run full-time for mission-critical applications. You should only install these builds if you know what you're doing and by that I mean you know all the risks involved and you know how to salvage your computer if things go horribly wrong.
Will it break apps? Maybe.
Will it be unstable? Maybe.
Will it be feature incomplete? Maybe.
Will it cause random problems? Maybe.
Will it kernel panic regularly? Maybe.
Will it corrupt your hard drive? Maybe.
Will it accidentally erase all your data? Maybe. (cue story about iTunes installer)
Will it report data back to Apple without your knowledge? Maybe.
Will it expire and leave you unable to access and encrypted data through FileVault? Maybe.
Check this out though: if you Command-Tab, it no longer uses the Dock! All the icons for all the open apps pop up in the middle of the screen, can you can choose them by Command-tabbing or with your mouse! That's great!
or Apple makes it impossable to upgrade from the developer preview to the final release?
To add on to my last post, here's a quote from the Read Before You Install.pdf:
You will not be able to upgrade from the "Panther" Developer Preview to the "Panther" GM release.
The same thing applied to the Jaguar developer builds. When people attempted to force an upgrade install over older Jaguar builds, they invariably encountered random problems later. If you're going to install, do it cleanly.
I would not recommend anybody use Panther as their primary OS because it's not meant to be a full, feature-complete, and fully tested release. It's a preview for developers. It's an OS to be used on your test machine, not for your main computer.
Anyway, a few questions:
How are the shut down and startup times compared to Jaguar?
Does the finder update it's file listing when it doesn't have the focus if you copy or delete a file through other means? (such as in the terminal.)
I heard some people saying that it contacts Apple and you get put on a poo-poo list
Can anyone verify this?
I'm thinking this would not make a lot of sense, seeing they handed out MANY copies to all kinds of developers, and there's probably no way of knowing if an install belongs to one of these.
that's odd. i just tried that trick with safari and finder. the finder DOES stay under the dock and safari does not. in this case, cocoa apps will NOT stay under the dock and carbon aps will.
Guys. Seriously. At this point does it really MATTER if it's cocoa or carbon? I mean, if Carbon has gotten good enough that you can't tell the difference superficially and have to resort to odd trickery like the above to find obscure behavior differences, I think the debate it pointless.
Metal Finder? Are you kidding me? Metal SUCKS. Unsanity better save the day again...since it's Carbon can it be turned off?
Are window borders draggable? Sometimes I get screwed when let's say Uplink behaves badly by changing res and if Stickies is open I quit Uplink and the Stickies notes are all mostly off screen and I have to Select All and copy the info into new notes. So can we drag windows by borders?
Good to hear it's more OS 9 like. Still all around kickass, the competition chewing its cud is going to look pretty damn stupid when it competes with 10.5. Isn't that cool how 10.2 came out in '02, 10.3 comes out in '03, and 10.4 will come out in '04? It's subtle, not like Windoze 2005 XP ME NT 98 SE SP1 4.001001!
Guys. Seriously. At this point does it really MATTER if it's cocoa or carbon?
Judging by Xcode, and all the nomenclature around it, Apple is doing its best to hide/erase any differences not only to the end user, but also to developers. Xcode seems to encourage mixed development under CoreFoundation.
Are window borders draggable? Sometimes I get screwed when let's say Uplink behaves badly by changing res and if Stickies is open I quit Uplink and the Stickies notes are all mostly off screen and I have to Select All and copy the info into new notes. So can we drag windows by borders?
Not that I can see. OS X windows do not have borders. Only the corner is draggable.
Comments
Originally posted by richardb
So, is it a good idea to replace Jaguar with Panther as my full-time OS?
I'll quote a favorite old answer to questions like this:
If you have to ask, then this is not for you.
Seriously, folks, how many times do we have to go over this? Releases like this are meant for developers who routinely back up their data. Releases like this are not meant to run full-time for mission-critical applications. You should only install these builds if you know what you're doing and by that I mean you know all the risks involved and you know how to salvage your computer if things go horribly wrong.
Will it break apps? Maybe.
Will it be unstable? Maybe.
Will it be feature incomplete? Maybe.
Will it cause random problems? Maybe.
Will it kernel panic regularly? Maybe.
Will it corrupt your hard drive? Maybe.
Will it accidentally erase all your data? Maybe. (cue story about iTunes installer)
Will it report data back to Apple without your knowledge? Maybe.
Will it expire and leave you unable to access and encrypted data through FileVault? Maybe.
Originally posted by Gambit
Check this out though: if you Command-Tab, it no longer uses the Dock! All the icons for all the open apps pop up in the middle of the screen, can you can choose them by Command-tabbing or with your mouse! That's great!
Sweet! Looking forward to that feature.....
Originally posted by Klown
or Apple makes it impossable to upgrade from the developer preview to the final release?
To add on to my last post, here's a quote from the Read Before You Install.pdf:
You will not be able to upgrade from the "Panther" Developer Preview to the "Panther" GM release.
The same thing applied to the Jaguar developer builds. When people attempted to force an upgrade install over older Jaguar builds, they invariably encountered random problems later. If you're going to install, do it cleanly.
Anyway, a few questions:
How are the shut down and startup times compared to Jaguar?
Does the finder update it's file listing when it doesn't have the focus if you copy or delete a file through other means? (such as in the terminal.)
Can you close minimized windows from the dock by right-mouse clicking on them?
If a folder/disk icon in the dock, are they spring-loaded?
Thanks
I heard some people saying that it contacts Apple and you get put on a poo-poo list
Can anyone verify this?
Originally posted by ZO
does 10.3DP "call home"??
I heard some people saying that it contacts Apple and you get put on a poo-poo list
Can anyone verify this?
I'm thinking this would not make a lot of sense, seeing they handed out MANY copies to all kinds of developers, and there's probably no way of knowing if an install belongs to one of these.
Trace back an IP, see if it phones home with info from My Card in the Address Book... all sorts of things to track on.
Anyway,
WHAT DOES STARTUP LOOK LIKE?
Originally posted by Apple Panther
It refuses to go under the dock. Carbon.
that's odd. i just tried that trick with safari and finder. the finder DOES stay under the dock and safari does not. in this case, cocoa apps will NOT stay under the dock and carbon aps will.
*sigh*
Guys. Seriously. At this point does it really MATTER if it's cocoa or carbon? I mean, if Carbon has gotten good enough that you can't tell the difference superficially and have to resort to odd trickery like the above to find obscure behavior differences, I think the debate it pointless.
screenshots please. (PM me if you don't want to post them)
Thanks.
Are window borders draggable? Sometimes I get screwed when let's say Uplink behaves badly by changing res and if Stickies is open I quit Uplink and the Stickies notes are all mostly off screen and I have to Select All and copy the info into new notes. So can we drag windows by borders?
Good to hear it's more OS 9 like. Still all around kickass, the competition chewing its cud is going to look pretty damn stupid when it competes with 10.5. Isn't that cool how 10.2 came out in '02, 10.3 comes out in '03, and 10.4 will come out in '04? It's subtle, not like Windoze 2005 XP ME NT 98 SE SP1 4.001001!
Originally posted by Placebo
It would be very stupid to install Panther Beta on a computer that is connected to the web.
Why would that be?
Originally posted by Brad
Carbon? Cocoa?
*sigh*
Guys. Seriously. At this point does it really MATTER if it's cocoa or carbon?
Judging by Xcode, and all the nomenclature around it, Apple is doing its best to hide/erase any differences not only to the end user, but also to developers. Xcode seems to encourage mixed development under CoreFoundation.
Originally posted by Aquatic
Are window borders draggable? Sometimes I get screwed when let's say Uplink behaves badly by changing res and if Stickies is open I quit Uplink and the Stickies notes are all mostly off screen and I have to Select All and copy the info into new notes. So can we drag windows by borders?
Not that I can see. OS X windows do not have borders. Only the corner is draggable.
Originally posted by Aquatic
Obligatory nag: is there Save and Shutdown aka Hibernate to save RAM contents to disk and shut down?
Nope
Originally posted by Placebo
WHAT DOES STARTUP LOOK LIKE?
Same as 10.2 but with less pronounced stripes.
Originally posted by nu64man
Can you close minimized windows from the dock by right-mouse clicking on them?
If a folder/disk icon in the dock, are they spring-loaded?
Yes. No.