I'm also curious what that little icon is in the Display pref pane. Another request/question: if you insert a blank CD-R, does it show up on the left, and if so, does it have a burn icon next to it like how a regular CD has an eject icon next to it?
Yeah, because we all understand that a green light makes things bigger, a red light makes them disappear, and a yellow light makes them minimize...
It's not a hard concept, and I really doubt it deserves that stupid face. A green light means you can go, the window gets to go bigger. Red light means to stop, meaning the window will stop being there. Yellow light means to yield, or for the window to minimize. It makes sense to me, sure it's not a 45 pixel button that says anything like "This button will close the window it's attached to", but it conveys the message to me just fine.
I'm very dissapointed with panther's integrity. The menubar has pinstripes, but the title bars of windows don't, and the 'Itunes style' finder window has a different style of metal from the application window style.
Once you use them, you remember them. It's not like OS 9's itty bitty widgets told you much of anything. It's just that people who used them made the connection a billion times over 15 years.
Seems that Apple has run amok with that lefthand sidebar thing. They seem to use it every chance they get!
Yeah except in the one place where every Windows user uses it - the browser. I hate to admit it, but I miss the left-side bookmarks when I use Safari. I really like the bookmarks bar, but I don't understand why they don't have a left-side panel like OmniWeb, especially now that it's become standard Apple.
What's that button in the upper right corner of the Display preference panel?
It opens a cloned window that contains *just* the display options that you can drag to another display if you have a multiple monitor setup.
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
But honestly! 2 types of metal AND Aqua?! WHY?
This is starting to sound like the original rants about the Public Beta and 10.0's Aqua (over platinum). This is almost as bad as that tired of traffic light argument. The new appearances really work well in person and I would ask that you wold off on the zealous rants until you actually tried it for a while yourself.
"2 types of metal AND Aqua"? I'm just not sure where you're coming from on this note. There's one metal. There's one Aqua. There is a very small number of other apps that do anything different. The Pro suite of software (FCP, Shake, DVDSP, Logic) is certainly an exception to this rule, but I don't think it's so big a deal. Some of these apps really *should* keep their unique UIs because they started that way and the hard-core developers have learned the ins and outs of those UIs. You will notice, however, that Apple *is* slowly weaning those users away from that custom UI, introducing more normal Aqua into the apps little by little.
I've mentioned this elsewhere several times in the "metal" discussions. It would seem that Apple is applying metal to one-window utility apps and media apps. All the iApps fit this (except iChat), Safari now can fit this (thanks to tabs), QuickTime Player fits this, and Final Cut Pro fits this. Now, the Finder sort-of fits this. Unless you are just a die-hard OS9 user that can't let go of your array of spawned windows, I believe most people are very much gravitating towards sticking with the "browser" style of using one main window to navigate the drive. This new finder looks to encourage that behavior even more.
Once you use them, you remember them. It's not like OS 9's itty bitty widgets told you much of anything. It's just that people who used them made the connection a billion times over 15 years.
Actually, the OS 9 widgets were designed in response to hundreds of hours of user testing (Apple's original round of testing that let to their first Human Interface Guidelines). The OS X widgets were designed to look cool. The OS 9 widgets were better than Windows, but not the OS X ones...
I haven't been using the Mac for 15 years, only 4. The traffic lights are flashy (they call attention to themselves instead of to the document they're holding) and they don't offer any visual information on what they do. They are confusing to switchers and Mac veterans alike.
It's an old argument, sure, but that doesn't make it any less valid. Lots of good UI from Mac OS 9 is creeping back into OS X. And Mac OS X has improved on OS 9's GUI in plenty of places (such as the system preferences panel).
I am not trying to be a curmudgeon...I love OS X, and it keeps getting better. I don't like Metal, but Panther looks like a significant improvement as a whole. I'm looking forward to it.
It's an old argument, sure, but that doesn't make it any less valid. Lots of good UI from Mac OS 9 is creeping back into OS X. And Mac OS X has improved on OS 9's GUI in plenty of places (such as the system preferences panel).
I don't believe this is an accident, given that the OS 9 team was folded into the OS X team when development on OS 9 stopped.
Well, my last post on the window widgets. This thread is getting derailed: the placement made more sense, the icons were not any more "intuitive." Besides, you do have the rollover effect to help. (Though I think the rollover marks should be persistent and the color should be the rollover.)
Are there any options for saving PDF files from a save pr print dialog? Any compression options for example, even in Preview? Also, does it support PDF services like 10.2.4 and later? I would assume so, but I'm also a little curious if they have improved the icons for this in the save/print dialog.
Hey Brad- can I see some screenshots of sheets? In Jaguars metal apps (Safari, Itunes) save/dialogue sheets look really bad, because there is no distinct titlebar in Metal. Do sheets in Panther look any better?
Oh, and thanks a lot for the abundant screenshots.
They are confusing to switchers and Mac veterans alike.
I just have to point out something here from my own experience. EVERY Windows user I know has been confused initially by the placement and functionality of the Classic Mac OS widgets. Most people hit the window-shade widget very frequently by accident thinking it closes the window since the button is so nondescript. I've watched my own mother do this time and time again, even.
On the other hand, EVERY single Windows user that has tried my Mac with Mac OS X for the first time has instantly gone for the red button to close the window.
Old theories and conjecture about what's "right" in the Classic interface are complete bunk next to my real-world observations.
If you want to carry on about a widget debate, I'll be happy to split this thread. Otherwise, let's stay on topic about Panther.
Comments
Originally posted by Brad
System Preferences - desktop
note how it says destop (without the k) in the title bar.... obviously a photoshopped fake
I'm also curious what that little icon is in the Display pref pane. Another request/question: if you insert a blank CD-R, does it show up on the left, and if so, does it have a burn icon next to it like how a regular CD has an eject icon next to it?
Especially in regards to multiple session CD-R's
Originally posted by iBrowse
Think traffic light...
Yeah, because we all understand that a green light makes things bigger, a red light makes them disappear, and a yellow light makes them minimize...
Originally posted by Gizzmonic
Yeah, because we all understand that a green light makes things bigger, a red light makes them disappear, and a yellow light makes them minimize...
It's not a hard concept, and I really doubt it deserves that stupid face. A green light means you can go, the window gets to go bigger. Red light means to stop, meaning the window will stop being there. Yellow light means to yield, or for the window to minimize. It makes sense to me, sure it's not a 45 pixel button that says anything like "This button will close the window it's attached to", but it conveys the message to me just fine.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Seems that Apple has run amok with that lefthand sidebar thing. They seem to use it every chance they get!
Yeah except in the one place where every Windows user uses it - the browser. I hate to admit it, but I miss the left-side bookmarks when I use Safari. I really like the bookmarks bar, but I don't understand why they don't have a left-side panel like OmniWeb, especially now that it's become standard Apple.
Originally posted by frawgz
What's that button in the upper right corner of the Display preference panel?
It opens a cloned window that contains *just* the display options that you can drag to another display if you have a multiple monitor setup.
Originally posted by Placebo
But honestly! 2 types of metal AND Aqua?! WHY?
This is starting to sound like the original rants about the Public Beta and 10.0's Aqua (over platinum). This is almost as bad as that tired of traffic light argument. The new appearances really work well in person and I would ask that you wold off on the zealous rants until you actually tried it for a while yourself.
"2 types of metal AND Aqua"? I'm just not sure where you're coming from on this note. There's one metal. There's one Aqua. There is a very small number of other apps that do anything different. The Pro suite of software (FCP, Shake, DVDSP, Logic) is certainly an exception to this rule, but I don't think it's so big a deal. Some of these apps really *should* keep their unique UIs because they started that way and the hard-core developers have learned the ins and outs of those UIs. You will notice, however, that Apple *is* slowly weaning those users away from that custom UI, introducing more normal Aqua into the apps little by little.
I've mentioned this elsewhere several times in the "metal" discussions. It would seem that Apple is applying metal to one-window utility apps and media apps. All the iApps fit this (except iChat), Safari now can fit this (thanks to tabs), QuickTime Player fits this, and Final Cut Pro fits this. Now, the Finder sort-of fits this. Unless you are just a die-hard OS9 user that can't let go of your array of spawned windows, I believe most people are very much gravitating towards sticking with the "browser" style of using one main window to navigate the drive. This new finder looks to encourage that behavior even more.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Once you use them, you remember them. It's not like OS 9's itty bitty widgets told you much of anything. It's just that people who used them made the connection a billion times over 15 years.
Actually, the OS 9 widgets were designed in response to hundreds of hours of user testing (Apple's original round of testing that let to their first Human Interface Guidelines). The OS X widgets were designed to look cool. The OS 9 widgets were better than Windows, but not the OS X ones...
I haven't been using the Mac for 15 years, only 4. The traffic lights are flashy (they call attention to themselves instead of to the document they're holding) and they don't offer any visual information on what they do. They are confusing to switchers and Mac veterans alike.
It's an old argument, sure, but that doesn't make it any less valid. Lots of good UI from Mac OS 9 is creeping back into OS X. And Mac OS X has improved on OS 9's GUI in plenty of places (such as the system preferences panel).
I am not trying to be a curmudgeon...I love OS X, and it keeps getting better. I don't like Metal, but Panther looks like a significant improvement as a whole. I'm looking forward to it.
Originally posted by Gizzmonic
It's an old argument, sure, but that doesn't make it any less valid. Lots of good UI from Mac OS 9 is creeping back into OS X. And Mac OS X has improved on OS 9's GUI in plenty of places (such as the system preferences panel).
I don't believe this is an accident, given that the OS 9 team was folded into the OS X team when development on OS 9 stopped.
Spit and polish, here we come.
In SAVE Dialog, can I select a existent file name and put it in the "untitled" box?
Regards,
BB.
Are there any options for saving PDF files from a save pr print dialog? Any compression options for example, even in Preview? Also, does it support PDF services like 10.2.4 and later? I would assume so, but I'm also a little curious if they have improved the icons for this in the save/print dialog.
Oh, and thanks a lot for the abundant screenshots.
Originally posted by Placebo
Hey Brad- can I see some screenshots of sheets?
Did you miss these?
Internet Connect - VPN sheet
TextEdit - mini save sheet
TextEdit - expanded *new* save sheet, list view
TextEdit - expanded *new* save sheet, column view
TextEdit - Spacing "other" sheet
TextEdit - Styles "other" sheet
Originally posted by Gizzmonic
They are confusing to switchers and Mac veterans alike.
I just have to point out something here from my own experience. EVERY Windows user I know has been confused initially by the placement and functionality of the Classic Mac OS widgets. Most people hit the window-shade widget very frequently by accident thinking it closes the window since the button is so nondescript. I've watched my own mother do this time and time again, even.
On the other hand, EVERY single Windows user that has tried my Mac with Mac OS X for the first time has instantly gone for the red button to close the window.
Old theories and conjecture about what's "right" in the Classic interface are complete bunk next to my real-world observations.
If you want to carry on about a widget debate, I'll be happy to split this thread. Otherwise, let's stay on topic about Panther.