If it's "merely" a speed bumped 1.25 GHz G4, I wonder how many people will still hold off until PB's are equipped with a G5 chip.
Because it is a PowerBook it can't be "merely" a speed bump. The subsystems in a PB are much more integrated than those of a tower. On a tower you can (for the most part) replace or add to the storage media. You can replace the graphics card. You can add a second graphics card. You can add ethernet and many other items via the PCI slots.
Laptops are much more limited in this respect so a new design brings us (hopefully) many more items than just a processor speed bump. Support for Airport Extreme, a better WiFi antenna, a better display, backlit keyboard, improved battery, better graphics card, faster optical drive are much of what may come and all are independent of the processor speed.
I'll appreciate a faster processor but I want all the other items too. If you already have a recent Ti PB then there is little need to upgrade. But if you are coming from a much earlier generation Ti book or Pismo or Wallstreet then this looks to be a very tasty upgrade. I was in an Apple store yesterday exercising a 1GHz Ti PB and it was really nice.
I suspect that while we all would love a G5 PB few of us really "need" it. It is more emotional attachment to having the "best" thing than actually being hampered by the ability of the current machine.
Be seated. Raise your eyes to the luminous, multi-coloured fruit of the heavens.And Let the incantation begin...
Oh mighty Apple. Keeper of our Dreams. Ruler of our hearts-desire for superbly designed and innovative tech-ware. (And masters of no-cost viral marketing)...
Please give us new powerbooks tomorrow...
Please give us new powerbooks tomorrow...
Please...
And ppl... Stop leaving out the PB12". If it simply had A (say)13" widescreen, a speed bump, and DVI out (to hook up to my imaginary 20" HD Display) it would be the perfect machine for portable work and play.
Every1 say the PB 12" will be updated too cos all this talk of his Big Brother(TM) is making him feel left out
Nothing like fueling the fire. Here's another "confirmation".
Jason says this:
Quote:
Q16 and Q41 will run a Jaguar OS variant code-named Blackrider. Like Smeagol, the build train for the Power Mac G5, Blackrider is a special version of Mac OS X 10.2.7 with hardware support for the new models.
Hmm... Blackrider...Could this indicate the new PowerBooks are anodized black aluminum?
Much like you, the only reason to wait for the new powerbooks is the hope that new USB and firewire standards are supportted. That and the hope that Apple will clean up its act relative to base RAM.
I do have to disagree somewhat with your logic though, Apple could very well just stick in an uprated processor. The only possible change I could see would be possibly to voltage regulation. Now they would be incredibly stupid to do that, considering how long in the tooth the PB are.
Thanks
Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino23
Because it is a PowerBook it can't be "merely" a speed bump. The subsystems in a PB are much more integrated than those of a tower. On a tower you can (for the most part) replace or add to the storage media. You can replace the graphics card. You can add a second graphics card. You can add ethernet and many other items via the PCI slots.
Laptops are much more limited in this respect so a new design brings us (hopefully) many more items than just a processor speed bump. Support for Airport Extreme, a better WiFi antenna, a better display, backlit keyboard, improved battery, better graphics card, faster optical drive are much of what may come and all are independent of the processor speed.
I'll appreciate a faster processor but I want all the other items too. If you already have a recent Ti PB then there is little need to upgrade. But if you are coming from a much earlier generation Ti book or Pismo or Wallstreet then this looks to be a very tasty upgrade. I was in an Apple store yesterday exercising a 1GHz Ti PB and it was really nice.
I suspect that while we all would love a G5 PB few of us really "need" it. It is more emotional attachment to having the "best" thing than actually being hampered by the ability of the current machine.
Much like you, the only reason to wait for the new powerbooks is the hope that new USB and firewire standards are supportted. That and the hope that Apple will clean up its act relative to base RAM.
I do have to disagree somewhat with your logic though, Apple could very well just stick in an uprated processor. The only possible change I could see would be possibly to voltage regulation. Now they would be incredibly stupid to do that, considering how long in the tooth the PB are.
Thanks
Dave
I agree, Apple could come out with a very minimal update. However, all the indications are that much of the technology in the 15" PB will be updated. We'll find out this week (I hope).
This is actually my main complaint with Apple, the lack of a road map. I agree that Apple should keep some things secret, especially anything related to style. And I understand that some things may not be put on a road map simply because there is internal disagreement about which way to proceed.
However, I would like Apple to setup a schedule for upgrading. For example, Apple could say the PowerBooks will be upgraded January, May and September. They might even say that major changes will come in January with speed bumps in May and September. Optionally, they could announce in advance when certain new technologies would be incorporated (bluetooth, FW800). This still lets Apple keep their secrets but lets the customers plan ahead.
However, I would like Apple to setup a schedule for upgrading. For example, Apple could say the PowerBooks will be upgraded January, May and September.
And when moto screws them over (yet again) on a deadline causing apple to miss a schedule month?!
a) apple will be vilfied from many. "apple sucks" "apple can't make deadlines"
b) apple will be sued by a bunch of class action weenies that will say they "lost money" when the 15" g4 1.6 did not ship when apple said it would.
i think apple should not change a thing...
we will get the machines when they are ready. the 3gig next year is about as proactive as they should get.. as they probably have more than that planned...
i can't wait for the tell all book on the apple moto realtionship in the future...
However, I would like Apple to setup a schedule for upgrading. For example, Apple could say the PowerBooks will be upgraded January, May and September. They might even say that major changes will come in January with speed bumps in May and September. Optionally, they could announce in advance when certain new technologies would be incorporated (bluetooth, FW800). This still lets Apple keep their secrets but lets the customers plan ahead.
Of course, the big and obvious problem with this is that if a deadline is missed, all hell will break loose. Plus, what then would happen to the rumor sites ?
Because it is a PowerBook it can't be "merely" a speed bump. The subsystems in a PB are much more integrated than those of a tower. On a tower you can (for the most part) replace or add to the storage media. You can replace the graphics card. You can add a second graphics card. You can add ethernet and many other items via the PCI slots.
Actually, Apple can (and has) merely upgraded the drives, or the CPU. All chips in the 745x G4 family are pin-compatible. In fact, with the last revision, the bigger PowerBooks now have their GPU on a daughtercard, so that they can switch chips or even suppliers easily (ATi has always been good about making their GPUs pin-compatible with prior models, but obviously ATi and nVIDIA don't try to be pin-compatible with each other!).
As for the drives, an ATA interface is an ATA interface. The drive itself certainly isn't soldered to the board. There are size and heat constraints, obviously, but they can source any drive that meets those constraints.
Upgrading the 'Books only becomes hard when you have to switch something that affects the board, like G3 -> 7400 G4, or 7400 G4 -> 7450 G4, or ATi -> nVIDIA -> daughtercard, or the cooling system, like shrinking the whole thing to less than an inch thick, etc.
I agree, Apple could come out with a very minimal update. However, all the indications are that much of the technology in the 15" PB will be updated. We'll find out this week (I hope).
This is actually my main complaint with Apple, the lack of a road map. I agree that Apple should keep some things secret, especially anything related to style. And I understand that some things may not be put on a road map simply because there is internal disagreement about which way to proceed.
However, I would like Apple to setup a schedule for upgrading. For example, Apple could say the PowerBooks will be upgraded January, May and September. They might even say that major changes will come in January with speed bumps in May and September. Optionally, they could announce in advance when certain new technologies would be incorporated (bluetooth, FW800). This still lets Apple keep their secrets but lets the customers plan ahead.
If Apple told everyone when their new models were coming (say they said that the G5 Powerbook will be in January), no one will buy that product for several months leading up to the update. Apple would have to seriously discount the models to get them out the door before their "scheduled" release, therefore not making as much money, not being able to put as much cash into the back or into R&D... then we wouldn't have Apple around much longer.
I don't think Apple will ever tell you when their updates will be for the next six months or year... it would be suicide. They would have inventory problems. Remember most people who have Macs aren't constantly checking rumors sites... there are consumers and there are fanatics.
If (and only if), we are to believe that something will be announced this week and that there is no scheduled Apple Event, should that effectively rule out any possibility of a G5 equipped Powerbook?
Surely the announcement as big as a G5 PB would require the prescence of Jobs himself. Anything less such as a G4 1.25Mhz 15" model, could simply and quietly be posted on Apple's website.
If Apple told everyone when their new models were coming (say they said that the G5 Powerbook will be in January), no one will buy that product for several months leading up to the update. Apple would have to seriously discount the models to get them out the door before their "scheduled" release, therefore not making as much money, not being able to put as much cash into the back or into R&D... then we wouldn't have Apple around much longer.
I don't think Apple will ever tell you when their updates will be for the next six months or year... it would be suicide. They would have inventory problems. Remember most people who have Macs aren't constantly checking rumors sites... there are consumers and there are fanatics.
Do you really think so? Car companies manage to deal with this problem. We all know when the new models are coming out. Also, lots of people just buy computers when they need them. Not everyone hangs out on these boards. I was in an Apple store Sunday and heard two people approach sales staff saying they needed to buy laptops (one got a 17 inch and one a 12 inch). Neither asked any questions about when a new model was coming. They needed a computer so they bought one.
Most of us don't buy every new upgrade. We either buy a computer because we are in a new situation (new job, new school) or because the current computer is too far out of date. It is already no secret that if you want to look for a major upgrade then you should buy a PB after MacWorld. It is the speedbumps that are problematical.
In this particular case, I was thinking to buy a new PB (Pismo upgrade) last spring. If I had known that no upgrade was coming till late August I probably would have bought something back then. As it was, with no information from Apple and just the onlookers guessing what will happen next I got hooked into the idea that an upgrade would be imminent so I waited and waited and Apple did not get my money.
Anyway, I don't feel very strongly about this, just that it would be nice if there was some compromise between the customers and Apple on this point.
Along the same lines, if Apple would come out with more frequent upgrades people would be less worried about upgrades. For example, if (as in the example above) a small upgrade came out every four months there would be less panic about waiting for the next upgrade. Also, from Apple's viewpoint the upgrades might be easier to accomplish and so might not be so costly. (Just my speculation.)
If (and only if), we are to believe that something will be announced this week and that there is no scheduled Apple Event, should that effectively rule out any possibility of a G5 equipped Powerbook?
Yep, any announcement as major as a G5 PowerBook would likely be at a special event. G4 speed bumps will be quietly announced with no fanfare, even if the 15" model is in a new enclosure.
Of course, "quietly" is a relative term. There will be lots of hoopla on the Mac web.
Comments
Originally posted by satchmo ...
If it's "merely" a speed bumped 1.25 GHz G4, I wonder how many people will still hold off until PB's are equipped with a G5 chip.
Because it is a PowerBook it can't be "merely" a speed bump. The subsystems in a PB are much more integrated than those of a tower. On a tower you can (for the most part) replace or add to the storage media. You can replace the graphics card. You can add a second graphics card. You can add ethernet and many other items via the PCI slots.
Laptops are much more limited in this respect so a new design brings us (hopefully) many more items than just a processor speed bump. Support for Airport Extreme, a better WiFi antenna, a better display, backlit keyboard, improved battery, better graphics card, faster optical drive are much of what may come and all are independent of the processor speed.
I'll appreciate a faster processor but I want all the other items too. If you already have a recent Ti PB then there is little need to upgrade. But if you are coming from a much earlier generation Ti book or Pismo or Wallstreet then this looks to be a very tasty upgrade. I was in an Apple store yesterday exercising a 1GHz Ti PB and it was really nice.
I suspect that while we all would love a G5 PB few of us really "need" it. It is more emotional attachment to having the "best" thing than actually being hampered by the ability of the current machine.
Oh mighty Apple. Keeper of our Dreams. Ruler of our hearts-desire for superbly designed and innovative tech-ware. (And masters of no-cost viral marketing)...
Please give us new powerbooks tomorrow...
Please give us new powerbooks tomorrow...
Please...
And ppl... Stop leaving out the PB12". If it simply had A (say)13" widescreen, a speed bump, and DVI out (to hook up to my imaginary 20" HD Display) it would be the perfect machine for portable work and play.
Every1 say the PB 12" will be updated too cos all this talk of his Big Brother(TM) is making him feel left out
Originally posted by Gabid
Nothing like fueling the fire. Here's another "confirmation".
Jason says this:
Q16 and Q41 will run a Jaguar OS variant code-named Blackrider. Like Smeagol, the build train for the Power Mac G5, Blackrider is a special version of Mac OS X 10.2.7 with hardware support for the new models.
Hmm... Blackrider...Could this indicate the new PowerBooks are anodized black aluminum?
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Jason says this:
Hmm... Blackrider...Could this indicate the new PowerBooks are anodized black aluminum?
Done right that would look so slick! StealthBook
I'm happy with regular Al though...just backlit and Al
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Jason says this:
Hmm... Blackrider...Could this indicate the new PowerBooks are anodized black aluminum?
I think that it's another Lord of the Rings reference, such as to the ringwraiths.
http://ogrady.blogspot.com/
"A reliable PowerPage source who has seen the new PB15" and its box describes it as looking just like a 17-inch except smaller. Some notes:
Ports on right side
1.25GHz G4 processor
Firewire 800 on board
nVIDIA video cards across the 12, 15 and 17"
I do have to disagree somewhat with your logic though, Apple could very well just stick in an uprated processor. The only possible change I could see would be possibly to voltage regulation. Now they would be incredibly stupid to do that, considering how long in the tooth the PB are.
Thanks
Dave
Originally posted by neutrino23
Because it is a PowerBook it can't be "merely" a speed bump. The subsystems in a PB are much more integrated than those of a tower. On a tower you can (for the most part) replace or add to the storage media. You can replace the graphics card. You can add a second graphics card. You can add ethernet and many other items via the PCI slots.
Laptops are much more limited in this respect so a new design brings us (hopefully) many more items than just a processor speed bump. Support for Airport Extreme, a better WiFi antenna, a better display, backlit keyboard, improved battery, better graphics card, faster optical drive are much of what may come and all are independent of the processor speed.
I'll appreciate a faster processor but I want all the other items too. If you already have a recent Ti PB then there is little need to upgrade. But if you are coming from a much earlier generation Ti book or Pismo or Wallstreet then this looks to be a very tasty upgrade. I was in an Apple store yesterday exercising a 1GHz Ti PB and it was really nice.
I suspect that while we all would love a G5 PB few of us really "need" it. It is more emotional attachment to having the "best" thing than actually being hampered by the ability of the current machine.
Originally posted by wizard69
Much like you, the only reason to wait for the new powerbooks is the hope that new USB and firewire standards are supportted. That and the hope that Apple will clean up its act relative to base RAM.
I do have to disagree somewhat with your logic though, Apple could very well just stick in an uprated processor. The only possible change I could see would be possibly to voltage regulation. Now they would be incredibly stupid to do that, considering how long in the tooth the PB are.
Thanks
Dave
I agree, Apple could come out with a very minimal update. However, all the indications are that much of the technology in the 15" PB will be updated. We'll find out this week (I hope).
This is actually my main complaint with Apple, the lack of a road map. I agree that Apple should keep some things secret, especially anything related to style. And I understand that some things may not be put on a road map simply because there is internal disagreement about which way to proceed.
However, I would like Apple to setup a schedule for upgrading. For example, Apple could say the PowerBooks will be upgraded January, May and September. They might even say that major changes will come in January with speed bumps in May and September. Optionally, they could announce in advance when certain new technologies would be incorporated (bluetooth, FW800). This still lets Apple keep their secrets but lets the customers plan ahead.
Originally posted by neutrino23
my main complaint with Apple, the lack of a road map.
I think they are starting to do this. Think back to the WWDC in June when Steve Jobs said the G5 would be at 3 GHz in a year's time.
However, I would like Apple to setup a schedule for upgrading. For example, Apple could say the PowerBooks will be upgraded January, May and September.
And when moto screws them over (yet again) on a deadline causing apple to miss a schedule month?!
a) apple will be vilfied from many. "apple sucks" "apple can't make deadlines"
b) apple will be sued by a bunch of class action weenies that will say they "lost money" when the 15" g4 1.6 did not ship when apple said it would.
i think apple should not change a thing...
we will get the machines when they are ready. the 3gig next year is about as proactive as they should get.. as they probably have more than that planned...
i can't wait for the tell all book on the apple moto realtionship in the future...
Originally posted by neutrino23
However, I would like Apple to setup a schedule for upgrading. For example, Apple could say the PowerBooks will be upgraded January, May and September. They might even say that major changes will come in January with speed bumps in May and September. Optionally, they could announce in advance when certain new technologies would be incorporated (bluetooth, FW800). This still lets Apple keep their secrets but lets the customers plan ahead.
Of course, the big and obvious problem with this is that if a deadline is missed, all hell will break loose. Plus, what then would happen to the rumor sites
Originally posted by neutrino23
Because it is a PowerBook it can't be "merely" a speed bump. The subsystems in a PB are much more integrated than those of a tower. On a tower you can (for the most part) replace or add to the storage media. You can replace the graphics card. You can add a second graphics card. You can add ethernet and many other items via the PCI slots.
Actually, Apple can (and has) merely upgraded the drives, or the CPU. All chips in the 745x G4 family are pin-compatible. In fact, with the last revision, the bigger PowerBooks now have their GPU on a daughtercard, so that they can switch chips or even suppliers easily (ATi has always been good about making their GPUs pin-compatible with prior models, but obviously ATi and nVIDIA don't try to be pin-compatible with each other!).
As for the drives, an ATA interface is an ATA interface. The drive itself certainly isn't soldered to the board.
Upgrading the 'Books only becomes hard when you have to switch something that affects the board, like G3 -> 7400 G4, or 7400 G4 -> 7450 G4, or ATi -> nVIDIA -> daughtercard, or the cooling system, like shrinking the whole thing to less than an inch thick, etc.
Originally posted by neutrino23
I agree, Apple could come out with a very minimal update. However, all the indications are that much of the technology in the 15" PB will be updated. We'll find out this week (I hope).
This is actually my main complaint with Apple, the lack of a road map. I agree that Apple should keep some things secret, especially anything related to style. And I understand that some things may not be put on a road map simply because there is internal disagreement about which way to proceed.
However, I would like Apple to setup a schedule for upgrading. For example, Apple could say the PowerBooks will be upgraded January, May and September. They might even say that major changes will come in January with speed bumps in May and September. Optionally, they could announce in advance when certain new technologies would be incorporated (bluetooth, FW800). This still lets Apple keep their secrets but lets the customers plan ahead.
If Apple told everyone when their new models were coming (say they said that the G5 Powerbook will be in January), no one will buy that product for several months leading up to the update. Apple would have to seriously discount the models to get them out the door before their "scheduled" release, therefore not making as much money, not being able to put as much cash into the back or into R&D... then we wouldn't have Apple around much longer.
I don't think Apple will ever tell you when their updates will be for the next six months or year... it would be suicide. They would have inventory problems. Remember most people who have Macs aren't constantly checking rumors sites... there are consumers and there are fanatics.
http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/Web...y?newsID=11323
Surely the announcement as big as a G5 PB would require the prescence of Jobs himself. Anything less such as a G4 1.25Mhz 15" model, could simply and quietly be posted on Apple's website.
Originally posted by macmike
If Apple told everyone when their new models were coming (say they said that the G5 Powerbook will be in January), no one will buy that product for several months leading up to the update. Apple would have to seriously discount the models to get them out the door before their "scheduled" release, therefore not making as much money, not being able to put as much cash into the back or into R&D... then we wouldn't have Apple around much longer.
I don't think Apple will ever tell you when their updates will be for the next six months or year... it would be suicide. They would have inventory problems. Remember most people who have Macs aren't constantly checking rumors sites... there are consumers and there are fanatics.
Do you really think so? Car companies manage to deal with this problem. We all know when the new models are coming out. Also, lots of people just buy computers when they need them. Not everyone hangs out on these boards. I was in an Apple store Sunday and heard two people approach sales staff saying they needed to buy laptops (one got a 17 inch and one a 12 inch). Neither asked any questions about when a new model was coming. They needed a computer so they bought one.
Most of us don't buy every new upgrade. We either buy a computer because we are in a new situation (new job, new school) or because the current computer is too far out of date. It is already no secret that if you want to look for a major upgrade then you should buy a PB after MacWorld. It is the speedbumps that are problematical.
In this particular case, I was thinking to buy a new PB (Pismo upgrade) last spring. If I had known that no upgrade was coming till late August I probably would have bought something back then. As it was, with no information from Apple and just the onlookers guessing what will happen next I got hooked into the idea that an upgrade would be imminent so I waited and waited and Apple did not get my money.
Anyway, I don't feel very strongly about this, just that it would be nice if there was some compromise between the customers and Apple on this point.
Along the same lines, if Apple would come out with more frequent upgrades people would be less worried about upgrades. For example, if (as in the example above) a small upgrade came out every four months there would be less panic about waiting for the next upgrade. Also, from Apple's viewpoint the upgrades might be easier to accomplish and so might not be so costly. (Just my speculation.)
Originally posted by satchmo
If (and only if), we are to believe that something will be announced this week and that there is no scheduled Apple Event, should that effectively rule out any possibility of a G5 equipped Powerbook?
Yep, any announcement as major as a G5 PowerBook would likely be at a special event. G4 speed bumps will be quietly announced with no fanfare, even if the 15" model is in a new enclosure.
Of course, "quietly" is a relative term. There will be lots of hoopla on the Mac web.