...or that Apple will want to differentiate its machines (most likely)...
I don't think that Apple will go with G4's long term because Moto hasn't the ability or inclination to scale the CPU speed. Hence a low end G4 replacement for the low end machines.
Exactly my point!
Something will need to replace the G4 in the low end machines (minus the eMac, which was a misplaced beast from the start. Just dump it Apple!) The G5 in high end, the Mojave/whatever in the iMac/iBook. And lose the AIO iMac.
Here is the traduction of an interview of an IBM official in SVM mac :
Do you think that the mhz competition is over ?
At the time of 64 bits, the marketing message of computers companies is going to change and is going to refer less to mhz of inboards chips. What is important nowdays is the architecture. With our 64 bit chip, we bring a real improvement of performance without necessary increase the frequency.
What do you think of the lattest move from Motorola ?
Sincerly, the 7457 chip, is nothing new. people where waiting for him since months. It's not a competitor of the PPC 970, but a competitor of the power pc 750 GX.
Is the 750 GX the potential successor of the G3.
You should ask this question to Apple. What i can tell you is that next to our 64 bit Cpu, we are still developping our 32 bit line. She will be fabbed on 0,13 micron process, his frequencie should reach 1,3 ghz, and his L2 cache 1 MB. His main advantage his is power consommation between 6 and 8 watts. This chip target the network market, and the mac market, especially for the lowend laptops. The 64 bit chip, will be introduced in the beginning only in the high end Apple market.
This chip lack altivec. Does altivec is only for mot ?
Now it's a choice, we think that a SIMD unit is most targeted to be embedded in a chip like the PPC 970. We have the right to use altivec, we have developped it jointly with mot. Only the name is registred by mot.
This chip target the network market, and the mac market, especially for the lowend laptops. The 64 bit chip, will be introduced in the beginning only in the high end Apple market.
lowend laptops!!! G5 in Powerbooks is the plan then, huh?
I don't think that it is so surprising. They are POWERbooks after all... Of course I just can't see a G5 iBook for quite some time...
Surprising in that IBM is acknowledging that Apple is aiming to use them in PowerBooks. I guess I am infering that this means soon since Power Macs already have them. Here's hoping anyway.
Surprising in that IBM is acknowledging that Apple is aiming to use them in PowerBooks. I guess I am infering that this means soon since Power Macs already have them. Here's hoping anyway.
I don't believe IBM said Apple was planning to use the 970 in PowerBooks at all. I'm not saying it will not happen, just that IBM did not imply it. After discussing the 750GX, the IBM official says, "This chip target the network market, and the mac market, especially for the lowend laptops. The 64 bit chip, will be introduced in the beginning only in the high end Apple market." He basically says the 750GX targets the iBook. I do not believe the last sentence refers to PowerBooks at all. He simply said nothing about PowerBooks, leaving them to Motorola for now, possibly, or what ever we may imagine. He said "high end Apple market," not high end laptops. The high end market might mean workstations and servers next. It's very easy to read more into what was said than what was said.
I personally have no opinion what Apple will do with the PowerBooks. I would not be too surprised to see a G5 laptop this year or early next, but it may not happen until lower power chips are available.
Can apple get to a $600 laptop, laptops now outsell desktops
they need cheap chips, the people that buy these don't need all that speed. i agree it's achitecture baby.
My ideal, i'd sacrifice speed for much more reallife battery life give me true 8 hrs use,
thin, light long battery lifed 14-15" , wifi, slot load,
To this end apple can't use the current g5 something else till the the 970/980 can lose the heat and power use. I also believee apple won't want to lose momentum so soon, just before school starts the back to school bunch wants something new also. there is also the christmas season
can apple get a 5w 1.3v 1.5ghz laptop together then what chip would it use?
Can apple get to a $600 laptop, laptops now outsell desktops
they need cheap chips, the people that buy these don't need all that speed. i agree it's achitecture baby.
My ideal, i'd sacrifice speed for much more reallife battery life give me true 8 hrs use,
thin, light long battery lifed 14-15" , wifi, slot load,
To this end apple can't use the current g5 something else till the the 970/980 can lose the heat and power use. I also believee apple won't want to lose momentum so soon, just before school starts the back to school bunch wants something new also. there is also the christmas season
can apple get a 5w 1.3v 1.5ghz laptop together then what chip would it use?
5W may be a little bit of a stretch, but lower voltage chips (ie 1.1v) would certainly help. Not sure if all this fuel-cell powered technology will be within Apple's grasp soon enough....then again, it has been a while since they release something (6-8 months). Hard to fathom burning ethanol or whatever burns in those, to power your laptop. I can see the warning label now: "DO NOT USED IN ENCLOSED AREAS WHERE AIR FLOW IS AT A MINIMUM! ADEQUATE VENTILATION REQUIRED!" or somesuch....
While I agree laptops don't need the ball-smashing power of the PM G5, they do need speed for pro's on the go. Maybe something completely off the board is in the works for us.
Damn, Apple has done an excellent job at keeping their stuff under wraps lately (well, except for some peckerwood webmonkey at Apple/Akamai with too quick of fingers....). No info or news leaks on anything PowerBook related. I am nearing a time when a replacement for my beloved Ti400 is needed!
Not really any news here. Nowhere does the IBM dude say anything at all about a G5 going into a Powerbook, he says "high-end Apple market" which could mean only Powermacs and Xserves.
I personally hope that Apple never uses this 750gx, because it doesn't have Altivec, it's got a lame FSB, and it isn't clocked high enough. A 750gx iBook would seem like an antique next to a high end Powermac. Apple needs to use at least a G4 in the iBook, preferable a G4 w/RIO tacked on, that scales to more than 1.0 GHz before broiling the laptop.
I personally hope that Apple never uses this 750gx, because it doesn't have Altivec, it's got a lame FSB, and it isn't clocked high enough.
If you thing the FSB on the 750GX is bad, what about the G4? The 750GHz has a 200MHz FSB, whereas the G4 has a 167MHz FSB. Is it known weather this bus can handle DDR? We already know the G4 can't...
Further, it is supposed to clock up to 1.1GHz. The current "portable G4" clocks up to 1GHz. Except for the lack of altivec, and the greater L2 cache on the 750GX, it looks like the 750GX matches the G4 almost everywhere. And altivec is supposedly comig in the next rev (750vx I guess it is called now). So why not use this in the iBooks?
Quote:
A 750gx iBook would seem like an antique next to a high end Powermac.
Oh, ok. So lets just stick dual G5s in the iBook so everyone can feel the power.
The iBook is a consumer machine. The PowerMac is a professional machine. The two shouldn't even be comapred at all.
Quote:
Apple needs to use at least a G4 in the iBook, preferable a G4 w/RIO tacked on, that scales to more than 1.0 GHz before broiling the laptop.
A G4 with RIO which would be cheap and cool enoguh to run in an iBook. Right...
What I have come to understand is that all you guys want is the 12" PB (with DVI out ) for $999.
As far as the 750 goes, we are just building on old technology, it shouldn't be further used in Apple's Computers, it seems hardly worth it when Apple's computers are boasting the Audio, Video, 2-D Quartz Extreme (also used on 32MB AGP cards), and Rendering (Games or Movies here) arenas.
. . . Further, it is supposed to clock up to 1.1GHz. The current "portable G4" clocks up to 1GHz. Except for the lack of altivec, and the greater L2 cache on the 750GX, it looks like the 750GX matches the G4 almost everywhere.
. . . So why not use this in the iBooks? . . .
It would make a nice little speed bump if Apple introduces it at the new Macworld in NY. However, if IBM's newsletter is accurate, it will not be shipping til December in quantity. That is far too late. Maybe that is for shipping to the embedded market, and Apple has first dibs on Gobi for the iBook now.
If Gobi is not shipping til December, the G4 would not be a bad choice, assuming that Motorola can deliver the die shrink G4, which will be lower power, have a 200 MHz FSB and sell at a lower price. That might be too much to expect from Motorola, I don't know.
It would make a nice little speed bump if Apple introduces it at the new Macworld in NY. However, if IBM's newsletter is accurate, it will not be shipping til December in quantity. That is far too late. Maybe that is for shipping to the embedded market, and Apple has first dibs on Gobi for the iBook now.
See I like to think that Apple has agreements, just like they did with Mot, about when they get chips and what not.
Quote:
If Gobi is not shipping til December, the G4 would not be a bad choice, assuming that Motorola can deliver the die shrink G4, which will be lower power, have a 200 MHz FSB and sell at a lower price. That might be too much to expect from Motorola, I don't know.
Thats just it. IBM has anounced this chip, and it will be very real. Has MOT ever announced (formally) the die shrunk G4 (the 7457) with faster bus, etc? I know we have all seen pdf files, but has there been a formal introduction like IBM has done? If not, why should we believe it will ever come about? It has been stated MOT has canceld plans on the 7457-RM (DDR G4), could they have canned the 7457 altogether?
All this talk has gotten me thinking about Apples products and processor useage for the future (note: all specualtion on my part!)
PowerMac - we already know it is getting the G5, and will run that path towards a 970+/980/980+/etc.
PowerBook - will get the 970 within the next 2 revs. Meaning there very well could be a G4 upgrade (1GHz/1.2Ghz) and then the 970. Or, Steve may surprise us and plop 1GHz/1.2GHz 970's in powerbooks.
iMac - There is still plenty of G4 head room (400 Mhz) for advances. Since the iMac doesn't use duals, a 1.4GHz G4 could very well appear without all the massive heatsinks/fans needed to cool a dual tower setup. I see the 970 creeping in after 2 or more revs.
eMac - Will stay G4 for the short term, but jump over to a 750VX/850 once altivec springs up. I dont see this going 970 anytime soon. I also don't see Apple calling the 750GX/850 a G3.
iBook - I think will track along the 750GX/750VX/850 line. I don't see it ever getting a G4, or the 970.
So I am thinking 1 year from now that the PowerMac (up to 3.0 GHz), PowerBook (up to 2.0GHz), and iMac (up to 2.0GHz) will all be 970s. The eMac (up to 1.5GHz) and iBook (up to 1.5GHz) will be 750VX/850. No more MOT in any of Apples lineup, and a solid range of products.
See I like to think that Apple has agreements, just like they did with Mot, about when they get chips and what not.
Thats just it. IBM has anounced this chip, and it will be very real. Has MOT ever announced (formally) the die shrunk G4 (the 7457) with faster bus, etc? I know we have all seen pdf files, but has there been a formal introduction like IBM has done? If not, why should we believe it will ever come about? It has been stated MOT has canceld plans on the 7457-RM (DDR G4), could they have canned the 7457 altogether?
Motorola announced the 7457 months ago! No offence but please inform yourself a little bit more before questioning the release of the 7457.
So I am thinking 1 year from now that the PowerMac (up to 3.0 GHz), PowerBook (up to 2.0GHz), and iMac (up to 2.0GHz) will all be 970s. The eMac (up to 1.5GHz) and iBook (up to 1.5GHz) will be 750VX/850. No more MOT in any of Apples lineup, and a solid range of products.
I agree. No more Moto and no more Altivec-less chips. The only divide is over 64 bit CPUs. A 1.5 GHz Altivec enabled iBook is a pretty attractive prospect!
Moto's only hope is to get a G4 out with a modern bus and to stop propagating FUD against themselves. Trying to sell your semiconductor division really doesn't help your customers want to stay with you.
Comments
Originally posted by Yevgeny
...or that Apple will want to differentiate its machines (most likely)...
I don't think that Apple will go with G4's long term because Moto hasn't the ability or inclination to scale the CPU speed. Hence a low end G4 replacement for the low end machines.
Exactly my point!
Something will need to replace the G4 in the low end machines (minus the eMac, which was a misplaced beast from the start. Just dump it Apple!) The G5 in high end, the Mojave/whatever in the iMac/iBook. And lose the AIO iMac.
Do you think that the mhz competition is over ?
At the time of 64 bits, the marketing message of computers companies is going to change and is going to refer less to mhz of inboards chips. What is important nowdays is the architecture. With our 64 bit chip, we bring a real improvement of performance without necessary increase the frequency.
What do you think of the lattest move from Motorola ?
Sincerly, the 7457 chip, is nothing new. people where waiting for him since months. It's not a competitor of the PPC 970, but a competitor of the power pc 750 GX.
Is the 750 GX the potential successor of the G3.
You should ask this question to Apple. What i can tell you is that next to our 64 bit Cpu, we are still developping our 32 bit line. She will be fabbed on 0,13 micron process, his frequencie should reach 1,3 ghz, and his L2 cache 1 MB. His main advantage his is power consommation between 6 and 8 watts. This chip target the network market, and the mac market, especially for the lowend laptops. The 64 bit chip, will be introduced in the beginning only in the high end Apple market.
This chip lack altivec. Does altivec is only for mot ?
Now it's a choice, we think that a SIMD unit is most targeted to be embedded in a chip like the PPC 970. We have the right to use altivec, we have developped it jointly with mot. Only the name is registred by mot.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
This chip target the network market, and the mac market, especially for the lowend laptops. The 64 bit chip, will be introduced in the beginning only in the high end Apple market.
lowend laptops!!! G5 in Powerbooks is the plan then, huh?
Originally posted by Rhumgod
lowend laptops!!! G5 in Powerbooks is the plan then, huh?
I don't think that it is so surprising. They are POWERbooks after all... Of course I just can't see a G5 iBook for quite some time...
Originally posted by Yevgeny
I don't think that it is so surprising. They are POWERbooks after all... Of course I just can't see a G5 iBook for quite some time...
Surprising in that IBM is acknowledging that Apple is aiming to use them in PowerBooks. I guess I am infering that this means soon since Power Macs already have them. Here's hoping anyway.
Originally posted by Matsu
NOtice how they say nothing about consumer machines, desktop or laptop and the G5.
Meaning some other chip IBM is developing with Apple? That's my gut feeling.
Originally posted by Rhumgod
Surprising in that IBM is acknowledging that Apple is aiming to use them in PowerBooks. I guess I am infering that this means soon since Power Macs already have them. Here's hoping anyway.
I don't believe IBM said Apple was planning to use the 970 in PowerBooks at all. I'm not saying it will not happen, just that IBM did not imply it. After discussing the 750GX, the IBM official says, "This chip target the network market, and the mac market, especially for the lowend laptops. The 64 bit chip, will be introduced in the beginning only in the high end Apple market." He basically says the 750GX targets the iBook. I do not believe the last sentence refers to PowerBooks at all. He simply said nothing about PowerBooks, leaving them to Motorola for now, possibly, or what ever we may imagine. He said "high end Apple market," not high end laptops. The high end market might mean workstations and servers next. It's very easy to read more into what was said than what was said.
I personally have no opinion what Apple will do with the PowerBooks. I would not be too surprised to see a G5 laptop this year or early next, but it may not happen until lower power chips are available.
they need cheap chips, the people that buy these don't need all that speed. i agree it's achitecture baby.
My ideal, i'd sacrifice speed for much more reallife battery life give me true 8 hrs use,
thin, light long battery lifed 14-15" , wifi, slot load,
To this end apple can't use the current g5 something else till the the 970/980 can lose the heat and power use. I also believee apple won't want to lose momentum so soon, just before school starts the back to school bunch wants something new also. there is also the christmas season
can apple get a 5w 1.3v 1.5ghz laptop together then what chip would it use?
Originally posted by NOFEER
Can apple get to a $600 laptop, laptops now outsell desktops
they need cheap chips, the people that buy these don't need all that speed. i agree it's achitecture baby.
My ideal, i'd sacrifice speed for much more reallife battery life give me true 8 hrs use,
thin, light long battery lifed 14-15" , wifi, slot load,
To this end apple can't use the current g5 something else till the the 970/980 can lose the heat and power use. I also believee apple won't want to lose momentum so soon, just before school starts the back to school bunch wants something new also. there is also the christmas season
can apple get a 5w 1.3v 1.5ghz laptop together then what chip would it use?
5W may be a little bit of a stretch, but lower voltage chips (ie 1.1v) would certainly help. Not sure if all this fuel-cell powered technology will be within Apple's grasp soon enough....then again, it has been a while since they release something (6-8 months). Hard to fathom burning ethanol or whatever burns in those, to power your laptop. I can see the warning label now: "DO NOT USED IN ENCLOSED AREAS WHERE AIR FLOW IS AT A MINIMUM! ADEQUATE VENTILATION REQUIRED!" or somesuch....
While I agree laptops don't need the ball-smashing power of the PM G5, they do need speed for pro's on the go. Maybe something completely off the board is in the works for us.
Damn, Apple has done an excellent job at keeping their stuff under wraps lately (well, except for some peckerwood webmonkey at Apple/Akamai with too quick of fingers....). No info or news leaks on anything PowerBook related. I am nearing a time when a replacement for my beloved Ti400 is needed!
I personally hope that Apple never uses this 750gx, because it doesn't have Altivec, it's got a lame FSB, and it isn't clocked high enough. A 750gx iBook would seem like an antique next to a high end Powermac. Apple needs to use at least a G4 in the iBook, preferable a G4 w/RIO tacked on, that scales to more than 1.0 GHz before broiling the laptop.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
I personally hope that Apple never uses this 750gx, because it doesn't have Altivec, it's got a lame FSB, and it isn't clocked high enough.
If you thing the FSB on the 750GX is bad, what about the G4? The 750GHz has a 200MHz FSB, whereas the G4 has a 167MHz FSB. Is it known weather this bus can handle DDR? We already know the G4 can't...
Further, it is supposed to clock up to 1.1GHz. The current "portable G4" clocks up to 1GHz. Except for the lack of altivec, and the greater L2 cache on the 750GX, it looks like the 750GX matches the G4 almost everywhere. And altivec is supposedly comig in the next rev (750vx I guess it is called now). So why not use this in the iBooks?
A 750gx iBook would seem like an antique next to a high end Powermac.
Oh, ok. So lets just stick dual G5s in the iBook so everyone can feel the power.
The iBook is a consumer machine. The PowerMac is a professional machine. The two shouldn't even be comapred at all.
Apple needs to use at least a G4 in the iBook, preferable a G4 w/RIO tacked on, that scales to more than 1.0 GHz before broiling the laptop.
A G4 with RIO which would be cheap and cool enoguh to run in an iBook. Right...
What I have come to understand is that all you guys want is the 12" PB (with DVI out
As far as the 750 goes, we are just building on old technology, it shouldn't be further used in Apple's Computers, it seems hardly worth it when Apple's computers are boasting the Audio, Video, 2-D Quartz Extreme (also used on 32MB AGP cards), and Rendering (Games or Movies here) arenas.
Originally posted by kupan787
. . . Further, it is supposed to clock up to 1.1GHz. The current "portable G4" clocks up to 1GHz. Except for the lack of altivec, and the greater L2 cache on the 750GX, it looks like the 750GX matches the G4 almost everywhere.
. . . So why not use this in the iBooks? . . .
It would make a nice little speed bump if Apple introduces it at the new Macworld in NY. However, if IBM's newsletter is accurate, it will not be shipping til December in quantity. That is far too late. Maybe that is for shipping to the embedded market, and Apple has first dibs on Gobi for the iBook now.
If Gobi is not shipping til December, the G4 would not be a bad choice, assuming that Motorola can deliver the die shrink G4, which will be lower power, have a 200 MHz FSB and sell at a lower price. That might be too much to expect from Motorola, I don't know.
Originally posted by snoopy
It would make a nice little speed bump if Apple introduces it at the new Macworld in NY. However, if IBM's newsletter is accurate, it will not be shipping til December in quantity. That is far too late. Maybe that is for shipping to the embedded market, and Apple has first dibs on Gobi for the iBook now.
See I like to think that Apple has agreements, just like they did with Mot, about when they get chips and what not.
If Gobi is not shipping til December, the G4 would not be a bad choice, assuming that Motorola can deliver the die shrink G4, which will be lower power, have a 200 MHz FSB and sell at a lower price. That might be too much to expect from Motorola, I don't know.
Thats just it. IBM has anounced this chip, and it will be very real. Has MOT ever announced (formally) the die shrunk G4 (the 7457) with faster bus, etc? I know we have all seen pdf files, but has there been a formal introduction like IBM has done? If not, why should we believe it will ever come about? It has been stated MOT has canceld plans on the 7457-RM (DDR G4), could they have canned the 7457 altogether?
PowerMac - we already know it is getting the G5, and will run that path towards a 970+/980/980+/etc.
PowerBook - will get the 970 within the next 2 revs. Meaning there very well could be a G4 upgrade (1GHz/1.2Ghz) and then the 970. Or, Steve may surprise us and plop 1GHz/1.2GHz 970's in powerbooks.
iMac - There is still plenty of G4 head room (400 Mhz) for advances. Since the iMac doesn't use duals, a 1.4GHz G4 could very well appear without all the massive heatsinks/fans needed to cool a dual tower setup. I see the 970 creeping in after 2 or more revs.
eMac - Will stay G4 for the short term, but jump over to a 750VX/850 once altivec springs up. I dont see this going 970 anytime soon. I also don't see Apple calling the 750GX/850 a G3.
iBook - I think will track along the 750GX/750VX/850 line. I don't see it ever getting a G4, or the 970.
So I am thinking 1 year from now that the PowerMac (up to 3.0 GHz), PowerBook (up to 2.0GHz), and iMac (up to 2.0GHz) will all be 970s. The eMac (up to 1.5GHz) and iBook (up to 1.5GHz) will be 750VX/850. No more MOT in any of Apples lineup, and a solid range of products.
Originally posted by kupan787
See I like to think that Apple has agreements, just like they did with Mot, about when they get chips and what not.
Thats just it. IBM has anounced this chip, and it will be very real. Has MOT ever announced (formally) the die shrunk G4 (the 7457) with faster bus, etc? I know we have all seen pdf files, but has there been a formal introduction like IBM has done? If not, why should we believe it will ever come about? It has been stated MOT has canceld plans on the 7457-RM (DDR G4), could they have canned the 7457 altogether?
Motorola announced the 7457 months ago! No offence but please inform yourself a little bit more before questioning the release of the 7457.
http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps...018rH3bTdG8653
End of Line
(90-nm PPC next year)
http://www.siliconstrategies.com/story/OEG20030623S0080
Originally posted by kupan787
So I am thinking 1 year from now that the PowerMac (up to 3.0 GHz), PowerBook (up to 2.0GHz), and iMac (up to 2.0GHz) will all be 970s. The eMac (up to 1.5GHz) and iBook (up to 1.5GHz) will be 750VX/850. No more MOT in any of Apples lineup, and a solid range of products.
I agree. No more Moto and no more Altivec-less chips. The only divide is over 64 bit CPUs. A 1.5 GHz Altivec enabled iBook is a pretty attractive prospect!
Moto's only hope is to get a G4 out with a modern bus and to stop propagating FUD against themselves. Trying to sell your semiconductor division really doesn't help your customers want to stay with you.