...it appears to me that other than weight (an extra pound or so), Apple kicks the stuffing out of the Vaio in every possible category. You get quite a bit of added functionality in this pound, not the least of which is an internal CDRW/DVD or DVDRW drive (the Sony's is external).
You also can stuff a bigger hard drive in it, double the RAM, the video card in the PowerBook is much better (and has 32mb SDRAM compared to 11mb or shared RAM on the Sony), the processor is faster (slightly in MHz, significantly in performance), not to mention all of the bundled software, and the fact that it doesn't run Windows.
Looks like a no-brainer to me -- did I miss anything in the comparison (I did it rather quickly, I admit).
<strong>PowerBook is the best portable you can buy...who honestly has a problem with the weight or size? I don't... </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, tell me about it. I was rather shocked, I spent the last week looking at what PC notebook to buy (I have to have one for testing purposes), and I could find nothing that had a similar balance of screen size, form factor, weight, battery life, built-in features, and price.
I ended up getting a Sony Vaio GRX, decently equipped (w/a second battery too), for a bit over $3,000 plus tax and shipping. It's all fine, I suppose, but the friggin' thing weighs over 8lbs, and there are other shortcomings as well that are not present with the 15" TiBook. Ah well...
I can understand the argument, but to me True "sub" notebooks are "sub" standard in my book.
First off, I'm a BIG guy with BIG hands, and anything short of a full size keyboard is going to crunch my fingers up in knarly arthritic claws.
Secondly the whole size issue is rendered moot when you sacrifice battery power as well. Who wants a one hour battery life? Not me. Kinda defeats the purpose of a portable.
Jobs is right when he says this is the year of the notebook, and that notebooks will eventually surpase desktop sales.
I don't doubt some people want something they can literally stick in their pocket....but it gets to the point where form cripples functionality. If I just want to check emails or stock qoutes, I'll use my cell phone or get a PDA. Otherwise the new Apple 12" powerbook fits the bill. I mean its exactly what Jobs said it is...the smallest FULLY featured notebook in the UNIVERSE.
Personally, I need more screen real estate...so I'm gonna wait to check out the 17" in person...or till they update the 15" to an aluma style with the airport extreme etc. The tibook is so thin, that to me it is VERY portable....but it HAS desktop power.
After I get that...and in a perfect world where money was no object, I would definately get the 12" powerbook when I wanted ULTRA small and portable. Anything smaller than that would just be a toy to me and completely useless. Not to mention a strain on my eyes, hands AND battery.
Perhaps one day Apple will come out with a phone/pda/iPOD thingy...
<strong>other than weight (an extra pound or so), Apple kicks the stuffing out of the Vaio in every possible category...
You also can stuff a bigger hard drive in it, double the RAM, the video card in the PowerBook is much better (and has 32mb SDRAM compared to 11mb or shared RAM on the Sony), the processor is faster (slightly in MHz, significantly in performance), not to mention all of the bundled software, and the fact that it doesn't run Windows.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh my, how easily moki exposes the hypocrit in me!
With all my clamoring for no optical drive and lighter weight, I keep forgetting that the vast majority of Wintel subnotebooks are crippled far beyond the lack of an optical drive. I'm complaining about the 640MB max RAM in the 12" AluBook when I would get half that in a Sony SRX99 (384MB max) or <a href="http://www.gateway.com/home/prod/hm_200_ProdDetail.shtml"; target="_blank">Gateway 200</a> (384MB max) notebook. The Dell <a href="http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/products/model_inspn_1_latit_x200.htm"; target="_blank">Latitude X200</a>, however, does fit up to 640MB RAM. But even worse than RAM limits, the low-weight Wintel subnotebooks fail in the battery department. You can add larger-capacity batteries, but they add weight and are outrageously expensive. Then there are the cheapo grafics cards, which would probably not give you the PowerBook's great monitor spanning (or high-res "mirroring"). There's still a reason PowerBooks are called PowerBooks.
As I've said a couple of times in the last few days, I've come to appreciate the iBook's size and features over the past 18 months of intense use. The 12" PowerBook builds on the iBook's strengths. By the time I own and use a 12" PowerBook, there's a good chance I'll no longer want that sub-PowerBook.
[quote]Originally posted by regan:
<strong>Who wants a one hour battery life? Not me. Kinda defeats the purpose of a portable.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ditto. However, I've cycled my iBook's battery so much that it has become relatively weak. I now have to carry the power adapter on a regulat basis too, even though my iBook is 1.9 lbs over subnotebook weight. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
As we talk about "crippled" subnotebooks, I have to agree that a cellphone/PDA will do a pretty good job of providing basic functions within a few years. (Gates/MS offered a connected watch at CES. But I'd rather keep my current simple analog watch on my wrist and carry a mobile in my pocket.)
moki is spot on in his assessment of the small notebook comparison. In CURRENT Hardware threads I agree with everyone who sez that the 12"Albook once again puts Apple WAY ahead of the pack!! The Sony Vaio's (or rather their owners) now have a reason to look up at Macs in all sizes catagories. Fame is fleeting. I wasn't all that impressed with with Vaio SRX series, anyway.
I would/will be ecstatic to buy the 12"Albook as my most mobile computer.
OverToasty brought up the very reasonable market assessment that Apple needs to think about for any NEW device that it sells. The subnotes seem to have evaporated on the PC side. The lightest Vaio's are no longer called "subnotebooks." The 5% of 3% of marketshare is what killed the Cube. However the Cube needed an incredible amount of R&D as it was a huge leap forward...'a la Newton. So that no reasonable economy of scale could support it, unfortunately. Yet a FUTURE subnotebook does not require much new R&D. With less display area and no optical drive, the current prism batteries could last alot longer than one hour and all the microdrives and new ways to put RAM on-board have already been designed and are-off-the shelf. So I don't concede that it would be a money loser.
Anyway, I have NOOOO complaints with respect to the 12" choices of Macs and with dual display support, it might be my most cost-effective choice for a desktop too.
It still isn't a subnotebook ... maybe we don't need one and maybe I just need to buy a better pda. But you have to admit, it is better to have choices!
I just wanted to say that after seeing the announcement of the new 12" AlBook I immediately thought of you escher. It made me want to come back to the AI boards to see what people thought of it.
After having bought a used Pismo 500 last year out of necessity for an able laptop Mac for my design purposes I've been very happy with it. I've now switched over to the use of a laptop as my primary computer. I don't think I could ever go back to using a tower or any wired-to-the-wall variation, I've just grown so accustomed to the portability. I absolutely love airport wireless networking and only wish that there were some way to extend the range without tearing the computer or card up and without using the cardbus slot.
My take on the 12" AlBook is that it's absolutely fantastic. I don't think that Apple would ever release anything smaller, lighter, or more sub than this without a larger share of the computer market. With my vow to only buy laptops from now on I need the optical drive and as much power as a PowerBook can pack into a small space. I also truly realize that most laptops are far from being comfortably portable as is the case with my Pismo. I look forward to being able to upgrade to a future revision of the little AlBook. Only the RAM limit, the fact that it's the first version, and my pocketbook hold me back.
<strong>I just wanted to say that after seeing the announcement of the new 12" AlBook I immediately thought of you escher.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thank you, zos. As you can tell, I'm still pondering the purchase of a new 12" AluBook. Considering my financial situation as a student (again), and my fully functional iBook, my waiting is part voluntary, part forced.
[quote]<strong>My take on the 12" AlBook is that it's absolutely fantastic... With my vow to only buy laptops from now on I need the optical drive and as much power as a PowerBook can pack into a small space.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I voved that I would stick with portables when I bought my first PowerBook in 1994 (the fantastic PowerBook 520c, aka Blackbird). I briefly deviated from that resolution when I bought an iMac for my fiancee (now wife) on August 15, 1998. With my recently more sedentary lifesyle, I considered a second iMac. But the release of the 12" PowerBook, which can serve as a full-fledged desktop with the addition of a higher-res external monitor and keyboard, will keep me firmly planted in the portable camp. On top of that, I'm really looking forward to returning to the PowerBook fold. I never felt quite comfortable owning an iBook that was part of Apple's consumer-level portable offerings.
When to upgrade to the 12" PowerBook is the only question remaining. Should I accept the 640MB max RAM limit and upgrade now? Or wait for a 1Ghz/1GB Rev.B bump? The next few weeks will undoubtedly tell.
"When to upgrade to the 12" PowerBook is the only question remaining. Should I accept the 640MB max RAM limit and upgrade now? Or wait for a 1Ghz/1GB Rev.B bump? The next few weeks will undoubtedly tell."
Hmmm. What are doing that needs more than 640 megs?
Photoshop should fly on that. You'd get reasonable 3D performance on something like Cinema 4D.
?
Sure, you could wait for a revision. But I think you'll be waiting for at least 6 months. You'll end up like me, eternally waiting for THAT 'power'Mac.
Still, if you haven't got the funds, you can always lodge your complaint about the ram at Apple's feedback page.
I'm really looking forward to returning to the PowerBook fold. I never felt quite comfortable owning an iBook that was part of Apple's consumer-level portable offerings.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My impression of Escher:
"Hey! Apple released a smaller Powerbook! But I'm happy with my iBook. I won't be upgrading at least until the second revision."
"Gee that Powerbook looks pretty nice...It's even smaller and lighter than the ibook. And more powerful too. But I think I will wait until the next revision."
"Hey, you can get a DVD burner! I wonder how long until the next revision..."
"Must...find...fault...with...new Powerbook. Hey, it's only got a 640MB RAM limit. That's sounds like a fault! Of course I only have about half that in my ibook now...but..."
<while checking order status at the apple store> "Honey, you remember that 12" Powerbook I showed you the other day?..."
<strong>What are doing that needs more than 640 megs?... Sure, you could wait for a revision. But I think you'll be waiting for at least 6 months.</strong><hr></blockquote>
With 320MB in my iBook, there's too much paging when I run a lot of apps. iPhoto is especially bad alongside anything else (iPhoto 2 migh alleviate the situation). I'm sure I could be fine with 640MB for now. But I'm less certain that 640MB will be enough a year or two from now. Assuming I upgrade, I'm really hoping to keep a 12" PowerBook longer than this iBook, which I've "only" had for 18 months. (In comparison, I still have, and my wife uses frequently, our 4.5 year-old Rev.A iMac.) Even if it's more psychological, a 1Ghz processor and iGB RAM would be nice. That's not to mention DVI out for a nice external LCD monitor.
[quote]Originally posted by icruise:
<strong>My impression of Escher: </strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh dear, what kind of reputation have I built up? Is this really the impression I make on people? I carry a lot of baggage, you know?
Seriously, I'm trying to figure out if my anti-Mac school will order a new 12" PowerBook for me at the education institution price ($1499) instead of the education individual price ($1699), which I can get on my own. If they do, I'll likely give in soon. There are other impending expenses, however, that make any new Mac unreasonable: we need new carpet, a new kitchen (ours is rotten), I need to pay my immigration attorney as soon as I get my Greencard (Feb/March). On top of that, law school tuition ain't cheap! Temptation, temptation, temptation... If only I could get a TV show to pay for me to succumb to my temptations.
<strong>That is something that has been often overlooked. You can obviously hide the Dock. More importantly, it's about time that Apple allow for scaling of the OS interface elements, i.e. the menu bar. With scaling of the interface, we could e.g. have 10" 1024x768 screens without getting a tiny menu bar. But those with good eyesight could get better use our of the surface area of the screen.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Unfortunately, Aqua is a long, long way from any kind of resolution independence.
The closest you can get is the Zoom accessibility feature. And, again, I can't imagine Apple shipping hardware that required the end user to sit down and customize the interface - or invoke a particular feature - just to make it usable. Notebooks have too many ergonomic tradeoffs as it is.
Escher has already said - and I concur - that it's sufficient to pull the optical drive out of the 12" iBook/PowerBook and maybe trim a little extra weight in order to get a subnote. They're already really close, and much less compromised than any of the subnotes they are kin to.
The trick is getting the optical drive out without forcing the user to engage in peripheral juggling to access basic functionality. I think it's clear at this point that Apple will stick to full featured notebooks with full size keyboards and screens that run natively at easy-to-read resolutions with enough vertical space to run Aqua comfortably out of the box. There's no real reason for them not to. As it is, their portable lineup is unbeatable right now, top to bottom.
How much weight does anyone think the optical drive really account for? After looking at the iBooks up close I'm guessing it is about 3 or 4 ounces. If taking out the CD makes the box smaller then maybe you save another ounce or so there.
I suspect that the largest reason the mini P weighs as much as it does is the battery. When I looked at sub notes in Japan they tended to get less than one hour on batteries if they used pentium processors.
They mostly allowed good monitor spanning but the graphics chips were all low class and often they shared memory with the CPU.
<strong>How much weight does anyone think the optical drive really account for? After looking at the iBooks up close I'm guessing it is about 3 or 4 ounces. If taking out the CD makes the box smaller then maybe you save another ounce or so there. <hr></blockquote></strong>
That is a good question. It's more than 3 or 4 ounces, certainly, but I don't know how significant a weight savings it would actually be to eliminate the drive without also making changes to the design of the book.
[quote]<strong>
I suspect that the largest reason the mini P weighs as much as it does is the battery. When I looked at sub notes in Japan they tended to get less than one hour on batteries if they used pentium processors.
They mostly allowed good monitor spanning but the graphics chips were all low class and often they shared memory with the CPU.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There are quite few subnotebooks that get decent battery life. Probably nowhere near the powerbook or ibook, but decent. You probably will have to carry an extra battery if you plan to use them away from AC very often though.
I went to one of the local Japanese electronics stores today with the idea of comparing the machines there to the 12" Powerbook. Actually, the powerbook is not particularly small or light in comparison to many of these machines, even those that include internal drives. But I will agree that in almost every case the subnotebooks had comparitively slow CPUs and terrible graphics. Apple is probably justified in claiming that it is the "smallest fully-featured computer." What "fully-featured" means is certainly open to debate, but they haven't cut nearly as many corners as most PC makers do when they design their smaller computers. Even just looking at the specs, the 12" Powerbook is quite a powerful computer (of course even the ibook blows most of the PC competition away). It's too bad that they couldn't have made a smaller version of the Tibook (performance-wise, not design-wise) instead of a super-deluxe iBook, but that won't stop me from buying one.
I still can't believe some are complaining about the 12" size. Unbelievable. Have they even held one? Its sooooooooooooooo small and compact.
For one it couldn't get smaller width or length wise...the keyboard and screen go right up to the friggin edge. And don't get me started on shrinking those! Anything smaller than a full size keyboard turns your fingers into arthritic claws. Maybe if you are under 5' tall with small hands....maybe.
Perhaps in upcoming revisions apple may be able to make it thinner with technology advances...but that is nit picking.
Like i said in a privious post...it gets to a point with this "shrinking" mentality that you get too small to be productive. And if you are just using it to check and send emails or stock quotes...use your cell phone!
Otherwise the 12" alumabook is a portable lovers dream come true. Power, portability. its got everything one would need on the road.
Seriously, I'm trying to figure out if my anti-Mac school will order a new 12" PowerBook for me at the education institution price ($1499) instead of the education individual price ($1699), which I can get on my own. If they do, I'll likely give in soon. </strong><hr></blockquote>
My supervisor did this for me. It's kind of a grey/poo-poo area. Not a no-no, but not encouraged either. However, I could only get what's discounted on the edu list. No superdrive, no upgrades. No problem though, it made the Apple price what it should be all along If they had an edu superdrive I'd have taken it. I'd certainly have taken a bump to 60GB, but ah well, I'm cool.
<strong>Have they even held one? Its sooooooooooooooo small and compact.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Of course "they" have held one. The real question is: Have you, regan, held a Sony Picturebook? In any case, thanks for diggin up my favorite subnotebook thread.
[quote]<strong>Perhaps in upcoming revisions apple may be able to make it thinner with technology advances...but that is nit picking.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's not nitpicking. It's called progress. Just remember how nicely Apple shrank the PowerBook line from the Wallstreet to the Pismo. I have no doubt that we'll see a similar shrinking effect applied to the 12-inch PowerBook in due time, without reducing functionality.
[quote]<strong>it gets to a point with this "shrinking" mentality that you get too small to be productive... Otherwise the 12" alumabook is a portable lovers dream come true. Power, portability.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There are certainly limits to the "shrinking" mentality, I agree. Given current technology, the 12-inch PowerBook is close to the limits of a fully featured notebook. At that point, however, the question becomes which features you don't need and can thus drop.
At least in the opinion of some, an internal optical drive is still superfluous. After 21 months with my low-end iBook/500, I can clearly say that I could live without an internal CD-ROM. I never use it (except to install Mac OS X and Office). But with an internal CD-RW, I would be able to burn picture CDs for friends on the road. That's not necessary, but would be a positive side-effect once I upgrade to a 12-inch PowerBook.
Ever since Apple released the iBook (Dual USB) in May 2001, my crusade for a true subnotebook has become an increasingly theoretical and ideological battle. In practical terms, the 12-inch PowerBook is just fine, if not better than what I would have imagined. As my signature implies: Until we can change the status quo, long live the status quo! 12-inch PowerBook here I come...
<strong>My supervisor did this for me. It's kind of a grey/poo-poo area... However, I could only get what's discounted on the edu list. No superdrive, no upgrades.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Matsu: I'm just glad you got a new 12-inch PowerBook (in you lap ). So how's your new miniBook?
Still, I was under the firm impression that institutions could get BTO as well. Back in college, I was able to order a BTO Wallstreet just before graduation through our IT administration. At the time, BTO was only available to institutions, not individuals. As you may remember, Wallstreet deliveries were slow to ramp up. In fact, I didn't get my new Wallstreet until after I had my diploma in hand.
With regards to the current situation, both the IT people for my university, and the IT people for the law school, where I am, are idiots. I don't think they're going to be able to help me with the educational pricing (or anything else, for that matter). It's a real shame, but not the end of the world. I'll just have to live with it.
Comments
<a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=HZ1TiZjOfq9Tu6bQhypZgtfBcOeFYYGGGHw=?Cat alogCategoryID=GG4KC0%2eNyMMAAADyw8V86aJ5&Dept=cpu &TemplateName=item%2fsy_item_b&ProductID=_C8KC0%2e NgN8AAADyR3J86aJ8&ContentItemPage=true&Boutique=" target="_blank">Sony Vaio SRX99</a>
...then have a look at what Apple did make:
<a href="http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html"; target="_blank">Apple 12" PowerBook</a>
...it appears to me that other than weight (an extra pound or so), Apple kicks the stuffing out of the Vaio in every possible category. You get quite a bit of added functionality in this pound, not the least of which is an internal CDRW/DVD or DVDRW drive (the Sony's is external).
You also can stuff a bigger hard drive in it, double the RAM, the video card in the PowerBook is much better (and has 32mb SDRAM compared to 11mb or shared RAM on the Sony), the processor is faster (slightly in MHz, significantly in performance), not to mention all of the bundled software, and the fact that it doesn't run Windows.
Looks like a no-brainer to me -- did I miss anything in the comparison (I did it rather quickly, I admit).
<strong>PowerBook is the best portable you can buy...who honestly has a problem with the weight or size? I don't...
Yeah, tell me about it. I was rather shocked, I spent the last week looking at what PC notebook to buy (I have to have one for testing purposes), and I could find nothing that had a similar balance of screen size, form factor, weight, battery life, built-in features, and price.
I ended up getting a Sony Vaio GRX, decently equipped (w/a second battery too), for a bit over $3,000 plus tax and shipping. It's all fine, I suppose, but the friggin' thing weighs over 8lbs, and there are other shortcomings as well that are not present with the 15" TiBook. Ah well...
Windoze 95% Market Share * Sub NoteBook @ 5% = still a viable segment worth going after: thus, these things get made.
Apple 3% Market Share * Sub NoteBook @ 5% = you've got to be kidding.
First off, I'm a BIG guy with BIG hands, and anything short of a full size keyboard is going to crunch my fingers up in knarly arthritic claws.
Secondly the whole size issue is rendered moot when you sacrifice battery power as well. Who wants a one hour battery life? Not me. Kinda defeats the purpose of a portable.
Jobs is right when he says this is the year of the notebook, and that notebooks will eventually surpase desktop sales.
I don't doubt some people want something they can literally stick in their pocket....but it gets to the point where form cripples functionality. If I just want to check emails or stock qoutes, I'll use my cell phone or get a PDA. Otherwise the new Apple 12" powerbook fits the bill. I mean its exactly what Jobs said it is...the smallest FULLY featured notebook in the UNIVERSE.
Personally, I need more screen real estate...so I'm gonna wait to check out the 17" in person...or till they update the 15" to an aluma style with the airport extreme etc. The tibook is so thin, that to me it is VERY portable....but it HAS desktop power.
After I get that...and in a perfect world where money was no object, I would definately get the 12" powerbook when I wanted ULTRA small and portable. Anything smaller than that would just be a toy to me and completely useless. Not to mention a strain on my eyes, hands AND battery.
Perhaps one day Apple will come out with a phone/pda/iPOD thingy...
-Regan
<strong>other than weight (an extra pound or so), Apple kicks the stuffing out of the Vaio in every possible category...
You also can stuff a bigger hard drive in it, double the RAM, the video card in the PowerBook is much better (and has 32mb SDRAM compared to 11mb or shared RAM on the Sony), the processor is faster (slightly in MHz, significantly in performance), not to mention all of the bundled software, and the fact that it doesn't run Windows.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh my, how easily moki exposes the hypocrit in me!
With all my clamoring for no optical drive and lighter weight, I keep forgetting that the vast majority of Wintel subnotebooks are crippled far beyond the lack of an optical drive. I'm complaining about the 640MB max RAM in the 12" AluBook when I would get half that in a Sony SRX99 (384MB max) or <a href="http://www.gateway.com/home/prod/hm_200_ProdDetail.shtml"; target="_blank">Gateway 200</a> (384MB max) notebook. The Dell <a href="http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/products/model_inspn_1_latit_x200.htm"; target="_blank">Latitude X200</a>, however, does fit up to 640MB RAM. But even worse than RAM limits, the low-weight Wintel subnotebooks fail in the battery department. You can add larger-capacity batteries, but they add weight and are outrageously expensive. Then there are the cheapo grafics cards, which would probably not give you the PowerBook's great monitor spanning (or high-res "mirroring"). There's still a reason PowerBooks are called PowerBooks.
As I've said a couple of times in the last few days, I've come to appreciate the iBook's size and features over the past 18 months of intense use. The 12" PowerBook builds on the iBook's strengths. By the time I own and use a 12" PowerBook, there's a good chance I'll no longer want that sub-PowerBook.
[quote]Originally posted by regan:
<strong>Who wants a one hour battery life? Not me. Kinda defeats the purpose of a portable.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ditto. However, I've cycled my iBook's battery so much that it has become relatively weak. I now have to carry the power adapter on a regulat basis too, even though my iBook is 1.9 lbs over subnotebook weight. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
As we talk about "crippled" subnotebooks, I have to agree that a cellphone/PDA will do a pretty good job of providing basic functions within a few years. (Gates/MS offered a connected watch at CES. But I'd rather keep my current simple analog watch on my wrist and carry a mobile in my pocket.)
Escher
[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
I would/will be ecstatic to buy the 12"Albook as my most mobile computer.
OverToasty brought up the very reasonable market assessment that Apple needs to think about for any NEW device that it sells. The subnotes seem to have evaporated on the PC side. The lightest Vaio's are no longer called "subnotebooks." The 5% of 3% of marketshare is what killed the Cube. However the Cube needed an incredible amount of R&D as it was a huge leap forward...'a la Newton. So that no reasonable economy of scale could support it, unfortunately. Yet a FUTURE subnotebook does not require much new R&D. With less display area and no optical drive, the current prism batteries could last alot longer than one hour and all the microdrives and new ways to put RAM on-board have already been designed and are-off-the shelf. So I don't concede that it would be a money loser.
Anyway, I have NOOOO complaints with respect to the 12" choices of Macs and with dual display support, it might be my most cost-effective choice for a desktop too.
It still isn't a subnotebook ... maybe we don't need one and maybe I just need to buy a better pda. But you have to admit, it is better to have choices!
I just wanted to say that after seeing the announcement of the new 12" AlBook I immediately thought of you escher. It made me want to come back to the AI boards to see what people thought of it.
After having bought a used Pismo 500 last year out of necessity for an able laptop Mac for my design purposes I've been very happy with it. I've now switched over to the use of a laptop as my primary computer. I don't think I could ever go back to using a tower or any wired-to-the-wall variation, I've just grown so accustomed to the portability. I absolutely love airport wireless networking and only wish that there were some way to extend the range without tearing the computer or card up and without using the cardbus slot.
My take on the 12" AlBook is that it's absolutely fantastic. I don't think that Apple would ever release anything smaller, lighter, or more sub than this without a larger share of the computer market. With my vow to only buy laptops from now on I need the optical drive and as much power as a PowerBook can pack into a small space. I also truly realize that most laptops are far from being comfortably portable as is the case with my Pismo. I look forward to being able to upgrade to a future revision of the little AlBook. Only the RAM limit, the fact that it's the first version, and my pocketbook hold me back.
<strong>I just wanted to say that after seeing the announcement of the new 12" AlBook I immediately thought of you escher.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thank you, zos. As you can tell, I'm still pondering the purchase of a new 12" AluBook. Considering my financial situation as a student (again), and my fully functional iBook, my waiting is part voluntary, part forced.
[quote]<strong>My take on the 12" AlBook is that it's absolutely fantastic... With my vow to only buy laptops from now on I need the optical drive and as much power as a PowerBook can pack into a small space.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I voved that I would stick with portables when I bought my first PowerBook in 1994 (the fantastic PowerBook 520c, aka Blackbird). I briefly deviated from that resolution when I bought an iMac for my fiancee (now wife) on August 15, 1998. With my recently more sedentary lifesyle, I considered a second iMac. But the release of the 12" PowerBook, which can serve as a full-fledged desktop with the addition of a higher-res external monitor and keyboard, will keep me firmly planted in the portable camp. On top of that, I'm really looking forward to returning to the PowerBook fold. I never felt quite comfortable owning an iBook that was part of Apple's consumer-level portable offerings.
When to upgrade to the 12" PowerBook is the only question remaining. Should I accept the 640MB max RAM limit and upgrade now? Or wait for a 1Ghz/1GB Rev.B bump? The next few weeks will undoubtedly tell.
Escher
Hmmm. What are doing that needs more than 640 megs?
Photoshop should fly on that. You'd get reasonable 3D performance on something like Cinema 4D.
?
Sure, you could wait for a revision. But I think you'll be waiting for at least 6 months. You'll end up like me, eternally waiting for THAT 'power'Mac.
Still, if you haven't got the funds, you can always lodge your complaint about the ram at Apple's feedback page.
Lemon Bon Bon
128 MB is just flat out being cheap.
That said, I am really drooling for the 12" PB.
Late this year I think I might pull the trigger. Just don't have the cash right now.
And there should be a new rev. by then too.
<strong>
I'm really looking forward to returning to the PowerBook fold. I never felt quite comfortable owning an iBook that was part of Apple's consumer-level portable offerings.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My impression of Escher:
"Hey! Apple released a smaller Powerbook! But I'm happy with my iBook. I won't be upgrading at least until the second revision."
"Gee that Powerbook looks pretty nice...It's even smaller and lighter than the ibook. And more powerful too. But I think I will wait until the next revision."
"Hey, you can get a DVD burner! I wonder how long until the next revision..."
"Must...find...fault...with...new Powerbook. Hey, it's only got a 640MB RAM limit. That's sounds like a fault! Of course I only have about half that in my ibook now...but..."
<while checking order status at the apple store> "Honey, you remember that 12" Powerbook I showed you the other day?..."
<strong>What are doing that needs more than 640 megs?... Sure, you could wait for a revision. But I think you'll be waiting for at least 6 months.</strong><hr></blockquote>
With 320MB in my iBook, there's too much paging when I run a lot of apps. iPhoto is especially bad alongside anything else (iPhoto 2 migh alleviate the situation). I'm sure I could be fine with 640MB for now. But I'm less certain that 640MB will be enough a year or two from now. Assuming I upgrade, I'm really hoping to keep a 12" PowerBook longer than this iBook, which I've "only" had for 18 months. (In comparison, I still have, and my wife uses frequently, our 4.5 year-old Rev.A iMac.) Even if it's more psychological, a 1Ghz processor and iGB RAM would be nice. That's not to mention DVI out for a nice external LCD monitor.
[quote]Originally posted by icruise:
<strong>My impression of Escher:
Oh dear, what kind of reputation have I built up? Is this really the impression I make on people? I carry a lot of baggage, you know?
Seriously, I'm trying to figure out if my anti-Mac school will order a new 12" PowerBook for me at the education institution price ($1499) instead of the education individual price ($1699), which I can get on my own. If they do, I'll likely give in soon. There are other impending expenses, however, that make any new Mac unreasonable: we need new carpet, a new kitchen (ours is rotten), I need to pay my immigration attorney as soon as I get my Greencard (Feb/March). On top of that, law school tuition ain't cheap!
Escher
<strong>That is something that has been often overlooked. You can obviously hide the Dock. More importantly, it's about time that Apple allow for scaling of the OS interface elements, i.e. the menu bar. With scaling of the interface, we could e.g. have 10" 1024x768 screens without getting a tiny menu bar. But those with good eyesight could get better use our of the surface area of the screen.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Unfortunately, Aqua is a long, long way from any kind of resolution independence.
The closest you can get is the Zoom accessibility feature. And, again, I can't imagine Apple shipping hardware that required the end user to sit down and customize the interface - or invoke a particular feature - just to make it usable. Notebooks have too many ergonomic tradeoffs as it is.
Escher has already said - and I concur - that it's sufficient to pull the optical drive out of the 12" iBook/PowerBook and maybe trim a little extra weight in order to get a subnote. They're already really close, and much less compromised than any of the subnotes they are kin to.
The trick is getting the optical drive out without forcing the user to engage in peripheral juggling to access basic functionality. I think it's clear at this point that Apple will stick to full featured notebooks with full size keyboards and screens that run natively at easy-to-read resolutions with enough vertical space to run Aqua comfortably out of the box. There's no real reason for them not to. As it is, their portable lineup is unbeatable right now, top to bottom.
[ 01-17-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
I suspect that the largest reason the mini P weighs as much as it does is the battery. When I looked at sub notes in Japan they tended to get less than one hour on batteries if they used pentium processors.
They mostly allowed good monitor spanning but the graphics chips were all low class and often they shared memory with the CPU.
<strong>How much weight does anyone think the optical drive really account for? After looking at the iBooks up close I'm guessing it is about 3 or 4 ounces. If taking out the CD makes the box smaller then maybe you save another ounce or so there. <hr></blockquote></strong>
That is a good question. It's more than 3 or 4 ounces, certainly, but I don't know how significant a weight savings it would actually be to eliminate the drive without also making changes to the design of the book.
[quote]<strong>
I suspect that the largest reason the mini P weighs as much as it does is the battery. When I looked at sub notes in Japan they tended to get less than one hour on batteries if they used pentium processors.
They mostly allowed good monitor spanning but the graphics chips were all low class and often they shared memory with the CPU.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There are quite few subnotebooks that get decent battery life. Probably nowhere near the powerbook or ibook, but decent. You probably will have to carry an extra battery if you plan to use them away from AC very often though.
I went to one of the local Japanese electronics stores today with the idea of comparing the machines there to the 12" Powerbook. Actually, the powerbook is not particularly small or light in comparison to many of these machines, even those that include internal drives. But I will agree that in almost every case the subnotebooks had comparitively slow CPUs and terrible graphics. Apple is probably justified in claiming that it is the "smallest fully-featured computer." What "fully-featured" means is certainly open to debate, but they haven't cut nearly as many corners as most PC makers do when they design their smaller computers. Even just looking at the specs, the 12" Powerbook is quite a powerful computer (of course even the ibook blows most of the PC competition away). It's too bad that they couldn't have made a smaller version of the Tibook (performance-wise, not design-wise) instead of a super-deluxe iBook, but that won't stop me from buying one.
For one it couldn't get smaller width or length wise...the keyboard and screen go right up to the friggin edge. And don't get me started on shrinking those! Anything smaller than a full size keyboard turns your fingers into arthritic claws. Maybe if you are under 5' tall with small hands....maybe.
Perhaps in upcoming revisions apple may be able to make it thinner with technology advances...but that is nit picking.
Like i said in a privious post...it gets to a point with this "shrinking" mentality that you get too small to be productive. And if you are just using it to check and send emails or stock quotes...use your cell phone!
Otherwise the 12" alumabook is a portable lovers dream come true. Power, portability. its got everything one would need on the road.
Its a beauty.
<strong>
Seriously, I'm trying to figure out if my anti-Mac school will order a new 12" PowerBook for me at the education institution price ($1499) instead of the education individual price ($1699), which I can get on my own. If they do, I'll likely give in soon. </strong><hr></blockquote>
My supervisor did this for me. It's kind of a grey/poo-poo area. Not a no-no, but not encouraged either. However, I could only get what's discounted on the edu list. No superdrive, no upgrades. No problem though, it made the Apple price what it should be all along
PS, Amorph, check your PM's, I'm an idiot
<strong>Have they even held one? Its sooooooooooooooo small and compact.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Of course "they" have held one. The real question is: Have you, regan, held a Sony Picturebook?
[quote]<strong>Perhaps in upcoming revisions apple may be able to make it thinner with technology advances...but that is nit picking.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's not nitpicking. It's called progress. Just remember how nicely Apple shrank the PowerBook line from the Wallstreet to the Pismo. I have no doubt that we'll see a similar shrinking effect applied to the 12-inch PowerBook in due time, without reducing functionality.
[quote]<strong>it gets to a point with this "shrinking" mentality that you get too small to be productive... Otherwise the 12" alumabook is a portable lovers dream come true. Power, portability.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There are certainly limits to the "shrinking" mentality, I agree. Given current technology, the 12-inch PowerBook is close to the limits of a fully featured notebook. At that point, however, the question becomes which features you don't need and can thus drop.
At least in the opinion of some, an internal optical drive is still superfluous. After 21 months with my low-end iBook/500, I can clearly say that I could live without an internal CD-ROM. I never use it (except to install Mac OS X and Office). But with an internal CD-RW, I would be able to burn picture CDs for friends on the road. That's not necessary, but would be a positive side-effect once I upgrade to a 12-inch PowerBook.
Ever since Apple released the iBook (Dual USB) in May 2001, my crusade for a true subnotebook has become an increasingly theoretical and ideological battle. In practical terms, the 12-inch PowerBook is just fine, if not better than what I would have imagined. As my signature implies: Until we can change the status quo, long live the status quo! 12-inch PowerBook here I come...
Escher
[ 02-22-2003: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
<strong>My supervisor did this for me. It's kind of a grey/poo-poo area... However, I could only get what's discounted on the edu list. No superdrive, no upgrades.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Matsu: I'm just glad you got a new 12-inch PowerBook (in you lap
Still, I was under the firm impression that institutions could get BTO as well. Back in college, I was able to order a BTO Wallstreet just before graduation through our IT administration. At the time, BTO was only available to institutions, not individuals. As you may remember, Wallstreet deliveries were slow to ramp up. In fact, I didn't get my new Wallstreet until after I had my diploma in hand.
With regards to the current situation, both the IT people for my university, and the IT people for the law school, where I am, are idiots. I don't think they're going to be able to help me with the educational pricing (or anything else, for that matter). It's a real shame, but not the end of the world. I'll just have to live with it.
Escher