I don't understand this 'Apple must not develop apps' attitiude. Apple has seen that there was a gap in the applications from 3rd part developers, and filled those gaps with products that are cleary superior to anything else. There is a gross lack of innovation in the application market currently - I can't remember the last time I saw an application that made me think 'wow I must have that!' - probably iDVD, or OmniGraffle.
I seem to remember a certain other operating system vendor that also creates applications....
Does it really matter if it's Apple that's got you over a barrel, or Adobe ? or Microsoft ?
But what really pisses me off is when Adoboe or Microsoft suddenly realise that they can't compete, and instead of pulling their fingers out and coding an application that's going to be competetive, they cry foul and pull the app alltogether. It was ironic that microsoft cited the 'unfair competition' from Apple for the reason for pulling IE - strange that that didn't seem to stop them doing the same thing on Windows serveral years ago.
Here is my outlook on it. We need to all calm down.
Adobe isn't going to kill their Mac support. Why compete with Avid and Apple. That is crazy. Also look at premiere pro. It looks a lot like FCP...s**t they even added pro to the name. If they released Premiere Pro on the Mac, a lot of people would cry wolf and say that Premiere Pro looks exactly like FCP 4. Adobe was just making the smart move.
When they first announced Encore, they said that they weren't competing with DVDSP because they are attacking different markets. Users that couldn't use DVDSP because it was too expensive or too complicated could use Encore on the PC. THey said that their relationship with APple is just fine. Then Apple announces DVDSP2 at the same price point as Encore and with a completely new UI. They had no response. They are just competing, and scared of competition. Avid stepped up to the plate though. They lowered prices on their big machines by 2/3 and Avid Xpress is starting to get better, although I still like FCP 4 more.
Look people, Adobe stills make money off the Mac platform. Don't forget, most PC users don't pay for Adobe products. Even in Hollywood studios there are a lot of facilities that pirate Adobe products...it's a fact. Adobe makes a lot of money with the applications that they still have out on the mac. They don't want to alienate an entire set of industries. There is way too much money invested in the broadcast and print industries that are solely mac. Imaginary Forces has about 100 people working there and they are ONLY Mac. They do CG, title works..all kinds of works. Huge print publications are Mac only. Huge post houses are Mac only. Adobe doesn't want to lose that money. Premiere can't compete with FCP 4 and the new version of Avid. Encore can't compete with DVDSP2 at all.
We just need to relax. A few applications that are gone, don't hurt us.
Don't forget, most PC users don't pay for Adobe products. Even in Hollywood studios there are a lot of facilities that pirate Adobe products...it's a fact. Adobe makes a lot of money with the applications that they still have out on the mac.
PC users do pay for Adobe apps. In fact BigCos are tied to Acrobat. Chizen (newish CEO) has targeted BigCos for multiple license sales of apps (10000+ units) and Acrobat is leading the way. The ePaper division (basically the Acrobat universe) last quarter brought in 1/3 of Adobe's income (a 42% year-on-year jump), and 90% of Acrobat users are on Wintel. Look for this number to grow substantially over the next few years (unless the MS version of Acrobaat gains traction). Adobe is in transition, and you can't just repeat the old Mac users are profitable line for very much longer--unless things change.
straight up... i bet 90% of those companies wouldn't have bought acrobat if they had rich PDF support in the OS like we do... I have used "save as PDF" many many times...
straight up we don't have rich PDF support, unless you're thinking of printing, which is probably the least interesting way that PDF is used (PDF-X isn't even a "real" Adobe format). Acrobat is excellent for document workflow, and tracking document workflow. PDF is searcheable and indexable, and can be doled up from a central server. For small and large companies that need to keep track of things PDF is useful. PDF forms are now also acceptable to a wide range of private and govt orgs. This is why MS is so interested in the PDF market.
If Preview gets more PDF goodies (forms, indexing, bookmarking and markup) it will be interesting to see how Adobe reacts.
PC users do pay for Adobe apps. In fact BigCos are tied to Acrobat. Chizen (newish CEO) has targeted BigCos for multiple license sales of apps (10000+ units) and Acrobat is leading the way. The ePaper division (basically the Acrobat universe) last quarter brought in 1/3 of Adobe's income (a 42% year-on-year jump), and 90% of Acrobat users are on Wintel. Look for this number to grow substantially over the next few years (unless the MS version of Acrobaat gains traction). Adobe is in transition, and you can't just repeat the old Mac users are profitable line for very much longer--unless things change.
I totally understand that. I was not referring to Acrobat though. I was more talking along the lines of post production, which is what I am involved in. In post production, there are still a lot of MAC users, and with the coming of the G5, more users are finding a strong reason to either stay on the MAC, move to the MAC or upgrade from old OS 9 machines.
I am pretty optimistic that Adobe won't go and get rid of PHOTOSHOP, AFTER EFFECTS, IN DESIGN or ACROBAT on the MAC.
All this conspiracy theory stuff is getting repeatative. We need to just keep on trucking.
All this conspiracy theory stuff is getting repeatative. We need to just keep on trucking.
Quote:
Before we start wittering on about Adobe leaving Apple, let's remember where Quartz comes from.
Who said anything about Adobe leaving Apple. The basic thing to realize is that Adobe is or will be a very different company soon. You do realize that most of Adobe FY2002 R&D dollars went to the ePaper division? Catering to graphics professionals will only one of the things that Adobe does in the future.
That's why Premiere on Windows won't be able to touch the Mac, ever. Adobe will be crying its way back in a few years, or maybe even cutting Premiere from its lineup. Look what happened to AVID when they told Mac users to take a flying leap...they are now begging for Mac users with Xpress DV. We'll see how well Adobe fares with its new "PC preferred" strategy.
BuonRotto
Senior Member
Adobe will drop Macs ASAP. For Photoshop and Illustrator, it will take several years, probably at least 3 more upgrades. But it will happen.
Apple, for a variety of reasons both of their own making and due to outside factors, is becoming more like the Amiga, and will at some point provide about 90% of the software that's used on the Mac. Question is, can they stay afloat like that, will they drop hardware eventually a la NeXT, how will all this pan out?
Apple have got to be careful they DON'T become the next 'Amiga'. They're on the verge of going either way. Back to 10% or below 1% and heading towards hardware oblivion.
It wouldn't be the end of the world as I think Apple the software company would storm the PC market. I think they'd probably make more money than they do from hardware. They could certainly reap the benefits for an anti-M$ Wintel solution.
For now, I'm optimistic that Apple has halted its worldwide slump and holding steady at 2%. The stores, iPod, G5 and Panther will put Apple on the % comeback trail, in my opinion. I think the 'Switcher' thing is working. Alot of the constrained unit sales have come from lacklustre G4 updates. Why upgrade when one machine is essentially as fast as another.
The G5 IS so fast it will make a big difference. 300% speed increase in FPU performance is very significant. For 3D workstation artists and creative pros...this is going to put Apple back on the map in the workstation/creative/audio markets. Even if both x86/PPC machines are equal, Apple can play the ace: Panther.
And the consumer market? I think Apple must be aware that some computer markets are reaching disposable status ala sub £500 market. I think Apple is, via store feedback, aware of the 'cheap' problem and will probably, at some point in the next year, release a very cheap Taiwanese based (cheap!!!!) headless Mac that people can use in their house like a toaster/tv/fridge. A general purpose little iCube. Something really special. A 'critical mass' machine. Apple need a device, a computer that will knock them into the next field in terms of market share. I think they just need to make a very cheap and desirable headless Mac and they'll see alot more people take a gamble on the 'switch'. A 'switcher kit' with a headless Mac in it would be a nice start. A corporate switcher kit could include an X-serve with an iCube/iOffice suite with steep unit and license 'switch' discounts. A complete top to bottom solution for corporate switching with training!
Apple have more in their locker than desperate Commodore ever had!
As for Adobe. We shouldn't panic unduly at this moment in time. Sure, Adobe have cancelled some stuff or not developed other stuff. Stuff the Mac hardly needs. Premiere vs Final Cut Pro 4? FCP4 chainsawed the legs off the opposition according to one industry source. I'd 2nd that. FCP4 is the one Apple app' that is on the way to gaining critical mass and ready to dominate the ved' industry. Avid are crawling back to the Mac on their knees. I remember them dismissing the Mac a while back. Smug gits. They aint so smug now Apple's superior bang for buck is all over them like a rash. Co-operation. Heh. No doubt, Avid.
Looking forwards a few years, I'd be concerned about Adobe if Apple don't make marketshare inroads. I don't quite their tone. Or the PC look of the apps.
(By the way, Eugene, I have originals of Final Cut Pro 4, Adobe Design Collection and Lightwave and MX Studio. Just awaiting the G5 to ship...)
But with most missing Adobe apps, Apple has a better coded, better looking, simpler, more elegant and usually more powerful solution which is easier to use.
The solution for Apple?
1. Corel is bleeding cash. Still. Buy Painter 8. You got the ultimate Photoshop shadowing stealth weapon. Anytime Photoshop and Adobe get dawdling, itchy PC feet, Apple can nuke them with their own App. Build in Shake-lite, Painter 8 and more Photoshop like interface placators with plug-in operability that Painter/PS enjoy with iPhoto integration as a viewer/file navigator then you've got a PS killer. Painter 8 is the dark horse app, Apple would need as insurance. They'd get it for a song and can keep the code on tick over. They needn't do anything great to an already superb program (as of 8!)
2. Buy Quark. Wanna splash a billion? Hostile take over. That takes care of the Indesign threat for the forseeable future. Freeze the PC version. Improve the Mac version. Watch hardware revenue grow as the PC version languishes. Apple gives themselves a rock solid insurance against Wintel for ten years?
3. Buy Macromedia. Vector apps like Freehand given the Apple treatment. Complete web solution from ground up.
4. Buy SGI. Maya.
5. Aqua-ise Open Office and bundle with Keynote, File Make 7 and iChat AV, Safari and a free .Mac account with every purchase...(and a free voucher off an iSight!) and you've got a killer office suite come 21st video conferencing solution that blows 'Office' out the water.
For about less than 2 billion dollars, Apple have the software solutions to take Wintel on. Revenue streams from PPC/x86. Squeeze the PC versions to increase G5 sales.
As for M$ talking about OS integration and not being able to compete with that. These guys make me laugh. Smack talk from a company caught with their knickers down and still they got off scott free because of their billion dollar lawyers. Huh.
Apple have got the aces. But with any set of cards...it's how you play them. If they play them right they can shut Quark, Adobe and M$'s subtle anti-Apple 'market share' noises. I'm a little worried (not hysterical yet, mind) about the 'tone' of these guys over the last couple of years. If that's the kind of attitude they take now...what do you think the 'revenue' centric Adobe and co will be like if Apple's share drops below 1% world wide? There's plenty of Photoshop owners out there that haven't minded being on the PC during the mhz debacle.
Painter and Photoshop are two very different apps.
Didn't you read anything about what I suggested?
Besides, they're not so different.
Filters, layers, plug-in capability, superior brushes. Bolstered by a a couple of other apps tech' that Apple has, Painter could be at least an equal proposition in terms of the creative solution people use PS for.
If it comes down to Apple or Adobe. It's Apple's survival for me. I'd rather they take Adobe out. People slowly withdrawing apps and Apple dying is not my idea of fun. Let's face it...Adobe making PC versions of their software probably did Apple more irreparable harm than M$ in some ways.
There may come a time when Adobe start making 'urm' and 'ahh...' noises. The better Apple are prepared for that time the better.
The point is, they can't wait for Adobe or M$ to provide superior solutions all of the time.
Eg Safari. Instance of Apple having to take matters in to their own hands. M$ had Apple to ransom for years. ANd what with? A crap browser that didn't do justice to Apple or the platform. Rant. If Apple has to buy and make and buy and make more of their own software and get software done right on the Mac rather than wait for uninspired Adobe apps with mediocre feature bloat then so be it.
Let's face it, PS 7 aint basically any better than PS4.
It's a good app. But I wouldn't rule out the idea that Apple may have to take matters into their own hands with PS, Quark or any other software. Depends on how the next few years go. Apple are rightly future proofing the platform...if that means putting Adobe or M$'s noses out of joint? I'm for it.
Apple need to increase software revenue. The last few years have proven that their hardware has shrunk to the degree that they can no longer depend on it and it alone and make decent profits. They have to make more software to survive, and long term, offset hardware margins so they can compete with Wintel to some degree.
Photoshop and Painter? To me? They're basically the same.
Buy Roxio. Like I said above access to the best Mac DVD Burner app out there and more(Live Picture Code).
Buy TIFFany3- If the Programmers are up to snuff..hire'em.
Buy Painter8 from Corel.
Now Mix until the lumps are gone and you might just have a Photoshop Killer.
From Live Picture take the 48bit Color Processing and Resolution Independence(Use the Proxies feature)
From Painter grab the great Natural Media brushes and Photoshop layer support.
From TIFFany3 grab any decent code from these guys.
Give users the option to use Raster based imaging or proxy. Cocoa all the way. Applescript and QT support should be embedded deep. Oh yeah and make it 64bit
Computers have stagnated. We're now sold on speed because legacy apps have so much cobweb code in them the apps need huge jumps in processor speed to maintain performance. Adobe 's had it's day with Photoshop. Macromedia failed because they didn't push Xres(like the precursor to Final Cut Pro they didn't know what to do). Apple knows what to do. Face it with %70 of Adobes revenue being generated on the PC side it doesn't take a Genius to realize Photoshops days as a benchmark Mac app are numbered. As Adobe relinquishes the Graphics Industry to chase Business..let Apple reap the rewards.
Buy TIFFany3- If the Programmers are up to snuff..hire'em.
?From TIFFany3 grab any decent code from these guys.
I have good news and bad news. The good news is that the two guys behind TIFFany are reportedly working at Apple already. The "bad" news is that they're knee-deep in Quartz and possibly the remnants of EOF/WebObjects.
Adobe is definitely signaling that the Mac is not that important anymore - it no longer needs it to survive. And like all scums with no soul, it will drop its long time partner without blinking.
Adobe! \ Adobe has lost it's soul. What is a company's soul? The creative force that drives innovation, people interested in making an honest difference. Not many companies have soul. Microsoft never had one. Adobe did at one time, but it is slowly dying.
My hope is that Adobe's stink doesn't drag Apple down with it. I'm sure Apple is paying close attention to what Adobe is doing. Today's Apple is smart and showing signs that it is ready to protect it's interests, at least that is my hope. I have no doubt that if necessary Apple can make PhotoShop look like a dinosaur if Adobe forces it to do so.
I have good news and bad news. The good news is that the two guys behind TIFFany are reportedly working at Apple already. The "bad" news is that they're knee-deep in Quartz and possibly the remnants of EOF/WebObjects.
Man Apple is picking up programmer after programmer. I had a hunch these guys were working at Apple.
Quote:
My hope is that Adobe's stink doesn't drag Apple down with it. I'm sure Apple is paying close attention to what Adobe is doing. Today's Apple is smart and showing signs that it is ready to protect it's interests, at least that is my hope. I have no doubt that if necessary Apple can make PhotoShop look like a dinosaur if Adobe forces it to do so.
I think the problem is the Publishing Industry. I think it's growth has been fairly static. Print Publishing is being usurped by Video content. Adobe realizes this and is focusing on getting entrenched in Corporate America with Acrobat and other tools. Photoshop is a Godsend to most because they have not other mature apps to really compare it with. It has become a defacto standard like Kleenex or Xerox. It have become a verb "just photoshop it" LOL.
However the Market just isn't there for serious growth. Thos who think Apple would adversely be affected by Photoshop leaving the platform are over exaggerating. I can't think of 10 people that have legit copies.
Should Apple prepare for the inevitable they should focus the app around image editing but also give it a foundation that links to Digital Video as well. Adobe has done that with Premiere/Photoshop/After Effects but the integration can only go so far with such legacy code.
Apple needs a nimble app that covers %80 of what PS does but adds in %50 of new stuff you never expected. If it works the migration would take years(ala FCP) but it will happen.
It would be better to actually have this from come from a Subsidiary so as to present the impression that Apple doesn't own the software. Similar to how Filemaker is handled.
Comments
I seem to remember a certain other operating system vendor that also creates applications....
Does it really matter if it's Apple that's got you over a barrel, or Adobe ? or Microsoft ?
But what really pisses me off is when Adoboe or Microsoft suddenly realise that they can't compete, and instead of pulling their fingers out and coding an application that's going to be competetive, they cry foul and pull the app alltogether. It was ironic that microsoft cited the 'unfair competition' from Apple for the reason for pulling IE - strange that that didn't seem to stop them doing the same thing on Windows serveral years ago.
Adobe isn't going to kill their Mac support. Why compete with Avid and Apple. That is crazy. Also look at premiere pro. It looks a lot like FCP...s**t they even added pro to the name. If they released Premiere Pro on the Mac, a lot of people would cry wolf and say that Premiere Pro looks exactly like FCP 4. Adobe was just making the smart move.
When they first announced Encore, they said that they weren't competing with DVDSP because they are attacking different markets. Users that couldn't use DVDSP because it was too expensive or too complicated could use Encore on the PC. THey said that their relationship with APple is just fine. Then Apple announces DVDSP2 at the same price point as Encore and with a completely new UI. They had no response. They are just competing, and scared of competition. Avid stepped up to the plate though. They lowered prices on their big machines by 2/3 and Avid Xpress is starting to get better, although I still like FCP 4 more.
Look people, Adobe stills make money off the Mac platform. Don't forget, most PC users don't pay for Adobe products. Even in Hollywood studios there are a lot of facilities that pirate Adobe products...it's a fact. Adobe makes a lot of money with the applications that they still have out on the mac. They don't want to alienate an entire set of industries. There is way too much money invested in the broadcast and print industries that are solely mac. Imaginary Forces has about 100 people working there and they are ONLY Mac. They do CG, title works..all kinds of works. Huge print publications are Mac only. Huge post houses are Mac only. Adobe doesn't want to lose that money. Premiere can't compete with FCP 4 and the new version of Avid. Encore can't compete with DVDSP2 at all.
We just need to relax. A few applications that are gone, don't hurt us.
Don't forget, most PC users don't pay for Adobe products. Even in Hollywood studios there are a lot of facilities that pirate Adobe products...it's a fact. Adobe makes a lot of money with the applications that they still have out on the mac.
PC users do pay for Adobe apps. In fact BigCos are tied to Acrobat. Chizen (newish CEO) has targeted BigCos for multiple license sales of apps (10000+ units) and Acrobat is leading the way. The ePaper division (basically the Acrobat universe) last quarter brought in 1/3 of Adobe's income (a 42% year-on-year jump), and 90% of Acrobat users are on Wintel. Look for this number to grow substantially over the next few years (unless the MS version of Acrobaat gains traction). Adobe is in transition, and you can't just repeat the old Mac users are profitable line for very much longer--unless things change.
If Preview gets more PDF goodies (forms, indexing, bookmarking and markup) it will be interesting to see how Adobe reacts.
How many of us own Premiere?
How many of us legally own Premiere?
How many of us legally own Photoshop? Office? Dreamweaver? QuickTime Pro?
How many of us have valid software licenses for 100% of our software? 90%? 80%? 50%? 20%?
I'd start a poll but I doubt enough people would be honest even in anonymity.
Originally posted by cowerd
PC users do pay for Adobe apps. In fact BigCos are tied to Acrobat. Chizen (newish CEO) has targeted BigCos for multiple license sales of apps (10000+ units) and Acrobat is leading the way. The ePaper division (basically the Acrobat universe) last quarter brought in 1/3 of Adobe's income (a 42% year-on-year jump), and 90% of Acrobat users are on Wintel. Look for this number to grow substantially over the next few years (unless the MS version of Acrobaat gains traction). Adobe is in transition, and you can't just repeat the old Mac users are profitable line for very much longer--unless things change.
I totally understand that. I was not referring to Acrobat though. I was more talking along the lines of post production, which is what I am involved in. In post production, there are still a lot of MAC users, and with the coming of the G5, more users are finding a strong reason to either stay on the MAC, move to the MAC or upgrade from old OS 9 machines.
I am pretty optimistic that Adobe won't go and get rid of PHOTOSHOP, AFTER EFFECTS, IN DESIGN or ACROBAT on the MAC.
All this conspiracy theory stuff is getting repeatative. We need to just keep on trucking.
Originally posted by Mark- Card Carrying FanaticRealist
Before we start wittering on about Adobe leaving Apple, let's remember where Quartz comes from.
What does Raycer have to do with this?
Originally posted by hmurchison
What does Raycer have to do with this?
as in the PDF underpinnings...
All this conspiracy theory stuff is getting repeatative. We need to just keep on trucking.
Before we start wittering on about Adobe leaving Apple, let's remember where Quartz comes from.
Who said anything about Adobe leaving Apple. The basic thing to realize is that Adobe is or will be a very different company soon. You do realize that most of Adobe FY2002 R&D dollars went to the ePaper division? Catering to graphics professionals will only one of the things that Adobe does in the future.
Catering to graphics professionals will only one of the things that Adobe does in the future.
Indeed and it remains to be seen how well they attempt to do that.
Originally posted by Xidius
No. There must be someone around to interpret the vibrations before it can be considered a "sound".
- Xidius
precisely. that's why adobe abondoning premiere on the mac is such a tremendous non-issue.
That's why Premiere on Windows won't be able to touch the Mac, ever. Adobe will be crying its way back in a few years, or maybe even cutting Premiere from its lineup. Look what happened to AVID when they told Mac users to take a flying leap...they are now begging for Mac users with Xpress DV. We'll see how well Adobe fares with its new "PC preferred" strategy.
BuonRotto
Senior Member
Adobe will drop Macs ASAP. For Photoshop and Illustrator, it will take several years, probably at least 3 more upgrades. But it will happen.
Apple, for a variety of reasons both of their own making and due to outside factors, is becoming more like the Amiga, and will at some point provide about 90% of the software that's used on the Mac. Question is, can they stay afloat like that, will they drop hardware eventually a la NeXT, how will all this pan out?
Apple have got to be careful they DON'T become the next 'Amiga'. They're on the verge of going either way. Back to 10% or below 1% and heading towards hardware oblivion.
It wouldn't be the end of the world as I think Apple the software company would storm the PC market. I think they'd probably make more money than they do from hardware. They could certainly reap the benefits for an anti-M$ Wintel solution.
For now, I'm optimistic that Apple has halted its worldwide slump and holding steady at 2%. The stores, iPod, G5 and Panther will put Apple on the % comeback trail, in my opinion. I think the 'Switcher' thing is working. Alot of the constrained unit sales have come from lacklustre G4 updates. Why upgrade when one machine is essentially as fast as another.
The G5 IS so fast it will make a big difference. 300% speed increase in FPU performance is very significant. For 3D workstation artists and creative pros...this is going to put Apple back on the map in the workstation/creative/audio markets. Even if both x86/PPC machines are equal, Apple can play the ace: Panther.
And the consumer market? I think Apple must be aware that some computer markets are reaching disposable status ala sub £500 market. I think Apple is, via store feedback, aware of the 'cheap' problem and will probably, at some point in the next year, release a very cheap Taiwanese based (cheap!!!!) headless Mac that people can use in their house like a toaster/tv/fridge. A general purpose little iCube. Something really special. A 'critical mass' machine. Apple need a device, a computer that will knock them into the next field in terms of market share. I think they just need to make a very cheap and desirable headless Mac and they'll see alot more people take a gamble on the 'switch'. A 'switcher kit' with a headless Mac in it would be a nice start. A corporate switcher kit could include an X-serve with an iCube/iOffice suite with steep unit and license 'switch' discounts. A complete top to bottom solution for corporate switching with training!
Apple have more in their locker than desperate Commodore ever had!
As for Adobe. We shouldn't panic unduly at this moment in time. Sure, Adobe have cancelled some stuff or not developed other stuff. Stuff the Mac hardly needs. Premiere vs Final Cut Pro 4? FCP4 chainsawed the legs off the opposition according to one industry source. I'd 2nd that. FCP4 is the one Apple app' that is on the way to gaining critical mass and ready to dominate the ved' industry. Avid are crawling back to the Mac on their knees. I remember them dismissing the Mac a while back. Smug gits. They aint so smug now Apple's superior bang for buck is all over them like a rash. Co-operation. Heh. No doubt, Avid.
Looking forwards a few years, I'd be concerned about Adobe if Apple don't make marketshare inroads. I don't quite their tone. Or the PC look of the apps.
(By the way, Eugene, I have originals of Final Cut Pro 4, Adobe Design Collection and Lightwave and MX Studio. Just awaiting the G5 to ship...)
But with most missing Adobe apps, Apple has a better coded, better looking, simpler, more elegant and usually more powerful solution which is easier to use.
The solution for Apple?
1. Corel is bleeding cash. Still. Buy Painter 8. You got the ultimate Photoshop shadowing stealth weapon. Anytime Photoshop and Adobe get dawdling, itchy PC feet, Apple can nuke them with their own App. Build in Shake-lite, Painter 8 and more Photoshop like interface placators with plug-in operability that Painter/PS enjoy with iPhoto integration as a viewer/file navigator then you've got a PS killer. Painter 8 is the dark horse app, Apple would need as insurance. They'd get it for a song and can keep the code on tick over. They needn't do anything great to an already superb program (as of 8!)
2. Buy Quark. Wanna splash a billion? Hostile take over. That takes care of the Indesign threat for the forseeable future. Freeze the PC version. Improve the Mac version. Watch hardware revenue grow as the PC version languishes. Apple gives themselves a rock solid insurance against Wintel for ten years?
3. Buy Macromedia. Vector apps like Freehand given the Apple treatment. Complete web solution from ground up.
4. Buy SGI. Maya.
5. Aqua-ise Open Office and bundle with Keynote, File Make 7 and iChat AV, Safari and a free .Mac account with every purchase...(and a free voucher off an iSight!) and you've got a killer office suite come 21st video conferencing solution that blows 'Office' out the water.
For about less than 2 billion dollars, Apple have the software solutions to take Wintel on. Revenue streams from PPC/x86. Squeeze the PC versions to increase G5 sales.
As for M$ talking about OS integration and not being able to compete with that. These guys make me laugh. Smack talk from a company caught with their knickers down and still they got off scott free because of their billion dollar lawyers. Huh.
Apple have got the aces. But with any set of cards...it's how you play them. If they play them right they can shut Quark, Adobe and M$'s subtle anti-Apple 'market share' noises. I'm a little worried (not hysterical yet, mind) about the 'tone' of these guys over the last couple of years. If that's the kind of attitude they take now...what do you think the 'revenue' centric Adobe and co will be like if Apple's share drops below 1% world wide? There's plenty of Photoshop owners out there that haven't minded being on the PC during the mhz debacle.
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
1. Corel is bleeding cash. Still. Buy Painter 8. You got the ultimate Photoshop shadowing stealth weapon.
Painter and Photoshop are two very different apps.
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
2. Buy Quark. Wanna splash a billion? Hostile take over.
They can't do that? It's not a publicly traded company.
Painter and Photoshop are two very different apps.
Didn't you read anything about what I suggested?
Besides, they're not so different.
Filters, layers, plug-in capability, superior brushes. Bolstered by a a couple of other apps tech' that Apple has, Painter could be at least an equal proposition in terms of the creative solution people use PS for.
If it comes down to Apple or Adobe. It's Apple's survival for me. I'd rather they take Adobe out. People slowly withdrawing apps and Apple dying is not my idea of fun. Let's face it...Adobe making PC versions of their software probably did Apple more irreparable harm than M$ in some ways.
There may come a time when Adobe start making 'urm' and 'ahh...' noises. The better Apple are prepared for that time the better.
The point is, they can't wait for Adobe or M$ to provide superior solutions all of the time.
Eg Safari. Instance of Apple having to take matters in to their own hands. M$ had Apple to ransom for years. ANd what with? A crap browser that didn't do justice to Apple or the platform. Rant. If Apple has to buy and make and buy and make more of their own software and get software done right on the Mac rather than wait for uninspired Adobe apps with mediocre feature bloat then so be it.
Let's face it, PS 7 aint basically any better than PS4.
It's a good app. But I wouldn't rule out the idea that Apple may have to take matters into their own hands with PS, Quark or any other software. Depends on how the next few years go. Apple are rightly future proofing the platform...if that means putting Adobe or M$'s noses out of joint? I'm for it.
Apple need to increase software revenue. The last few years have proven that their hardware has shrunk to the degree that they can no longer depend on it and it alone and make decent profits. They have to make more software to survive, and long term, offset hardware margins so they can compete with Wintel to some degree.
Photoshop and Painter? To me? They're basically the same.
Lemon Bon Bon
Time for another shopping spree.
Buy Roxio. Like I said above access to the best Mac DVD Burner app out there and more(Live Picture Code).
Buy TIFFany3- If the Programmers are up to snuff..hire'em.
Buy Painter8 from Corel.
Now Mix until the lumps are gone and you might just have a Photoshop Killer.
From Live Picture take the 48bit Color Processing and Resolution Independence(Use the Proxies feature)
From Painter grab the great Natural Media brushes and Photoshop layer support.
From TIFFany3 grab any decent code from these guys.
Give users the option to use Raster based imaging or proxy. Cocoa all the way. Applescript and QT support should be embedded deep. Oh yeah and make it 64bit
Computers have stagnated. We're now sold on speed because legacy apps have so much cobweb code in them the apps need huge jumps in processor speed to maintain performance. Adobe 's had it's day with Photoshop. Macromedia failed because they didn't push Xres(like the precursor to Final Cut Pro they didn't know what to do). Apple knows what to do. Face it with %70 of Adobes revenue being generated on the PC side it doesn't take a Genius to realize Photoshops days as a benchmark Mac app are numbered. As Adobe relinquishes the Graphics Industry to chase Business..let Apple reap the rewards.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Buy TIFFany3- If the Programmers are up to snuff..hire'em.
?From TIFFany3 grab any decent code from these guys.
I have good news and bad news. The good news is that the two guys behind TIFFany are reportedly working at Apple already. The "bad" news is that they're knee-deep in Quartz and possibly the remnants of EOF/WebObjects.
Adobe!
My hope is that Adobe's stink doesn't drag Apple down with it. I'm sure Apple is paying close attention to what Adobe is doing. Today's Apple is smart and showing signs that it is ready to protect it's interests, at least that is my hope. I have no doubt that if necessary Apple can make PhotoShop look like a dinosaur if Adobe forces it to do so.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
I have good news and bad news. The good news is that the two guys behind TIFFany are reportedly working at Apple already. The "bad" news is that they're knee-deep in Quartz and possibly the remnants of EOF/WebObjects.
Man Apple is picking up programmer after programmer. I had a hunch these guys were working at Apple.
My hope is that Adobe's stink doesn't drag Apple down with it. I'm sure Apple is paying close attention to what Adobe is doing. Today's Apple is smart and showing signs that it is ready to protect it's interests, at least that is my hope. I have no doubt that if necessary Apple can make PhotoShop look like a dinosaur if Adobe forces it to do so.
I think the problem is the Publishing Industry. I think it's growth has been fairly static. Print Publishing is being usurped by Video content. Adobe realizes this and is focusing on getting entrenched in Corporate America with Acrobat and other tools. Photoshop is a Godsend to most because they have not other mature apps to really compare it with. It has become a defacto standard like Kleenex or Xerox. It have become a verb "just photoshop it" LOL.
However the Market just isn't there for serious growth. Thos who think Apple would adversely be affected by Photoshop leaving the platform are over exaggerating. I can't think of 10 people that have legit copies.
Should Apple prepare for the inevitable they should focus the app around image editing but also give it a foundation that links to Digital Video as well. Adobe has done that with Premiere/Photoshop/After Effects but the integration can only go so far with such legacy code.
Apple needs a nimble app that covers %80 of what PS does but adds in %50 of new stuff you never expected. If it works the migration would take years(ala FCP) but it will happen.
It would be better to actually have this from come from a Subsidiary so as to present the impression that Apple doesn't own the software. Similar to how Filemaker is handled.