Animals in Iran Beat woman to Brain Dead State..

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Freedom in Iran? Hardly... Human rights? Hardly...



The abuse must stop...



Zahra Kazemi was beaten to a brain dead state by iranian officials. One has to wonder the conditions of the prisons she was trying to photograph.



God Bless her and her family. I have tremendous respect for those who bring light to humanitarian crimes. This lady has paid a high price.



Here is the Link to Story



Fellowship
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 28
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    Have to say I agree with you on this one.



    This is why the "eye for an eye" attitude that pervades Arab cultures can never work. Because it ends up being much worse than an "eye for an eye". People who have committed no real crime are mutilated and worse, in this case. I'm all for Christians and Jews trying to understand the basic tenets of Islam and vice versa, but Arab culture in general is FUBAR. Even worse than ours. Far worse....



    This is clear evidence Iran is still a messed up country, contrary to some of the more optimistic articles I've read in recent years (though not the last 12 months), that tried to imply Iranian society was evolving and becoming more liberal in terms of what citizens are allowed to wear in public, etc. This, relative to other Arab countries that is. I don't know because I don't live there; I suppose this could be a [symptom of] government / police backlash to what was a society pressing for more freedoms?



    The irrational, vengeful part of me thinks the guards ought to be extradited to the Air Canada Center (can be temporarily renamed the Ottawa Center for Justice)... we could send them to Montreal but the French would never agree to it.



    I'm sure the Senators could lend Zdeno Chara and the leafs could put Marchment, Belak and a couple others to work for a day. Video tape it and broadcast it on Al JIZZeera; let the bastards know how it feels to have one of their own beaten from afar. With hockey sticks and pucks travelling at 90 mph. At least we will be able to say we didn't beat a woman for taking pictures.



  • Reply 2 of 28
    mggmgg Posts: 124member
    I agree as well. This is very unfortuate and sad situation. I really hate to put lables on any on, but really, what has our world come to?
  • Reply 3 of 28
    aquafireaquafire Posts: 2,758member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MGG

    I agree as well. This is very unfortuate and sad situation. I really hate to put lables on any on, but really, what has our world come to?



    Moderate Islam...yeah sure..like a choice between taking poison or being beaten to death....

    Fukem Fukem Fukem..

    ( I am sorry but this makes my blood boil )
  • Reply 4 of 28
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Moogs

    Have to say I agree with you on this one.



    This is why the "eye for an eye" attitude that pervades Arab cultures can never work.




    So, are you for the death penalty being applied to murderers?
  • Reply 5 of 28
    fellowshipfellowship Posts: 5,038member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BR

    So, are you for the death penalty being applied to murderers?



    BR I realize you are asking Moogs but I will answer this question by saying: No I am against the death penalty.



    The narrowminded conservative mindset of those who beat the woman in this story is a mindset that we in the world should all take a look at. I am not trying to point a finger at Iranian people by bringing forward this story rather I am trying to bring forward the issue of the mindset that leads to the brutal treatment of people. As we all know this kind of thing could happen anywhere in the world. Again I simply submit that we all in this world should step back and take a look at what we do with our actions, thoughts and opinions. I think it could be said safely that what we believe as individuals has a way of collectively becoming a social norm over time. If this is true what kind of society do would we rather have?



    One of control, fear, force, mental and physical abuse, and murder?



    Or



    One of freedom, empowerment, choice, pluralism, respect for all?



    I choose option two.



    Earlier in this post I made it clear it was not the Iranian people I was pointing a finger to but rather a mindset. That is indeed my goal with this entire thread. The Iranian people as a whole I would estimate are fine people who for the most part would not engage in what happened to this woman. Those in power in the country of Iran are the ones who perpetuate this violence. We are all but people in this world and no matter our country of origin or residence we must keep our guard up to guard against the issues I discuss above.



    Fellowship
  • Reply 6 of 28
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    BR



    I think you're misundertstanding my earlier point about an eye for an eye. That line of "justice" / "reasoning" already pervades Arab societies such as that of Saudi Arabi. You steal, you get your hand cut off. You kill, you are killed, etc etc.



    What I'm saying is, in that particular culture, it can never work because they allow their religious fanaticism to get in the way of assessing who is guilty of what. So people who commit no crime can still "get their eye poked out" for doing what westerners would consider to be .. absolutely nothing. Can you imagine someone being incarcerated and beaten to death for photographing something in any western country -- even if it WERE some secret military facility or something (which this wasn't AFAIK)? Me neither.



    Here, [even if accused of murder] you have to go through a lengthy trial process where many facts about the case, people involved, etc get to speak to the guilt or innocence of a person. And even then in most states you still can't be put to death. And in the states you can, there are many chances for appeal, and if you do have to go, none of the means of execution (save riding the lighting maybe) are remotely as cruel as being beaten to death.



    Am I for Capital Punishment? In rare cases yes (Bundy, Dahmer, Gacy, etc.). But my point was about the literal eye for an eye thing in Arab states -- not just capital punishment. Eye for an eye can mean other things besides being put to death.
  • Reply 7 of 28
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    And then there's always heart-warming Arab traditions like this one:



    Quote:

    from the NYT:



    YAYLIM, Turkey ? Last month a woman named Cemse Allak was buried in a corner of a municipal cemetery here. Ms. Allak, unmarried and pregnant, had died from a stoning.



    Villagers and local lawyers said Ms. Allak ? as well as the man who had made her pregnant ? had been killed to restore the honor of their families.



  • Reply 8 of 28
    aquafireaquafire Posts: 2,758member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Moogs

    And then there's always heart-warming Arab traditions like this one:



    We have parts of "society" that use "honour" as an excuse to kill....we cal them the Mafia..& bikies...\
  • Reply 9 of 28
    roborobo Posts: 469member
    Just for the record, Iranians are not Arabs...
  • Reply 10 of 28
    Quote:

    Originally posted by robo

    Just for the record, Iranians are not Arabs...



    they're Aryan..



    http://www.iranchamber.com/history/a...n_movement.php
  • Reply 11 of 28
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    At first I was going to post something along the lines of "the Third Reich might disagree with you", but upon further review...



    Quote:

    Ar·y·an __ (_P_)__Pronunciation Key__(âr-n, r-)

    n.

    1. Indo-Iranian. No longer in technical use.





    2. A member of the people who spoke the parent language of the Indo-European languages. No longer in technical use.





    3. A member of any people speaking an Indo-European language. No longer in technical use.





    4. In Nazism and neo-Nazism, a non-Jewish Caucasian, especially one of Nordic type, supposed to be part of a master race.



    Learn something new every day. I've never heard that word used in any context other than that referring to the Nazi's... Either way, the afore-mentioned traditions they hold are FUBAR. And they are very similar to traditions held in countries that are positively Arabian FWIW.



    [added: As for Aquafire's comment, I would hardly call Bikers and Mafia a good representation of our society as a whole. We may glorify them on television shows, but in reality very few people hold a favorable view of the mafia or their practices, much less the Hells Angels. However I doubt there is a similar proportion of people in Arab / Islamic societies that look upon honor killings in the same negative light we view mafia hits. Just a hunch...]



  • Reply 12 of 28
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Moogs

    At first I was going to post something along the lines of "the Third Reich might disagree with you", but upon further review...




    A friend of my parents is married to an Iranian. He's been in the States since the 1970s. Blond hair, blue eyes.
  • Reply 13 of 28
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    Maybe, but the point is Aryan has multiple meanings / context. I don't think the connection you're making applies to the Iranian definition necessarily. One use describes a person's appearance, another describes a person's heritage of being from Iran / Persia (I suspect). The fact the person also has blond hair and blue eyes is probably coincidence.
  • Reply 14 of 28
    fellowshipfellowship Posts: 5,038member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by segovius

    Oh well, it's my first post so I may as well kick it off with something contentious:



    Moogs: for the record - Turks aren't Arabs either. They are well...Turks.



    Perhaps you were instead thinking of 'Islamic' culture but then the stoning and barbaric acts referred to are no more nor less inhuman than those outlined in the Bible (Leviticus: stoning of homosexuals etc). Actually, now I come to think of it, one could easily make a case for the Old Testament being MORE barbaric. Good thing most Christians don't follow it properly really.



    Btw, re the Persian culture/Arab culture equivalence you seemed to suggest earlier: imo this is not quite right. The two brands of Islam are radically differnt (and opposing) and the general culture of Persia is far more sophisticated (imo) than that of the Arab. It produced several of the worlds acknowledged literary and artistic masterpieces and possibly the most reasonable religion yet, Zoroastrianism.



    This is not to defend the 'animals'. Without doubt this was a sub-human act. My point is: there are animals all over the place and they're getting more everyday.



    No culture, race or geographical area has the monopoly. Good and bad everywhere.



    All you can do is just make sure you don't join them.




    Welcome to AI,



    I agree 100% with your view here.



    Fellowship
  • Reply 15 of 28
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    I must be losing it... did I say something about the Turks in this thread? That's a whole other ball of wax and one I shouldn't get into because I'm part Armenian and so by definition I have a problem with the State of Turkey and some of their policies.



    Anyway, I agree no culture has a monopoly on sanity or civility. And the Bible does indeed have some twisted stuff in the Old Testment. As you say though, the big difference is there aren't (to my knowledge) any Christians here who still practice stoning / otherwise maiming people in the name of biblical "honor". However it seems this is till a fairly common practice in many Islamic towns and villages apparently.



    As for who is Arab and who isn't, we should clear the air on this one. I may be confused to some degree, and so if I am I hope someone with authoritative knowledge can correct me. My presumption is that to be Arab (generally speaking - there are always exceptions) is to be both Muslim and one of the following nationalities:



    Egyptian

    Iranian (apparently not?)

    Iraqi

    Jordanian

    Kuwaiti

    Libyan

    Palestinian

    Saudi Arabian

    Syrian

    Yemeni

    or someone from the UAE



    Am I forgetting anyone?



    If I'm not correct in assigning the general "properties" of what it is to be "Arab", please correct me here. Thread aside I'd just like to know the official definition. Does Arab refer more to say the qualities that pertain to their art and other non-animate cultural things -- in the same sense you would call someone from Japan Asian, but call their Kimono Oriental?
  • Reply 16 of 28
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by segovius

    Perhaps you were instead thinking of 'Islamic' culture but then the stoning and barbaric acts referred to are no more nor less inhuman than those outlined in the Bible (Leviticus: stoning of homosexuals etc). Actually, now I come to think of it, one could easily make a case for the Old Testament being MORE barbaric. Good thing most Christians don't follow it properly really.



    Why would they? It's the New Testament they are supposed to follow.
  • Reply 17 of 28
    giaguaragiaguara Posts: 2,724member
    Nobody said anything about the turks in this thread, at least in the beginning. Fellowship was saying that ANIMALS in Iran beat a woman ... you have been talking about HUMANS, guys, not about ANIMALS. Now go back to topic, please?



    Oh - I must have missed the part of text where the animals were specified though. I can't imagine how animals could do such.
  • Reply 18 of 28
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    I only said that I concurred that the individuals who carried out the beating are "animals" (maybe "savage" is a better descriptor). I won't waver on that. They're not savages because they're culturally different from me, but because you forfeit your humanity IMO when you carry out such a barbaric act against a completely harmless and defenseless individual (let alone female).



    They might as well be neanderthal in my book, dragging women around by their hair and clubbing them when they get hungry. Not all Iranians per say, just those who carried out the attack and those who support it / claim it good or justified -- I'm sure there are at least a few in that country who support this type of punishment.
  • Reply 19 of 28
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Welcome and please hang around for a while
  • Reply 20 of 28
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Moogs



    As for who is Arab and who isn't, we should clear the air on this one. I may be confused to some degree, and so if I am I hope someone with authoritative knowledge can correct me. My presumption is that to be Arab (generally speaking - there are always exceptions) is to be both Muslim and one of the following nationalities:



    Egyptian

    Iranian (apparently not?)

    Iraqi

    Jordanian

    Kuwaiti

    Libyan

    Palestinian

    Saudi Arabian

    Syrian

    Yemeni

    or someone from the UAE



    Am I forgetting anyone?




    Good start but you missed most of North Africa and the Sudan. And no, Iran is not Arab. Here's a link to the Arab League.
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