hehe... funny thing is that "Byan" has yet to return... or comment.
Sorry for the wait...
and now after eating me, you are yet to barf me up and devour me again..., since the reason I haven't responded is because my PC's hard drive burnt out...
I would like to comment on the fact that you mac types are worse then most PC types, sure there is a small amount of people, the stereo types, that hate macs and think that whoever uses a mac can goto hell, but i and the majority (OK, of the people who can actually build there own computer..., and my opinion, if you can't build one then you really don't know what you are talking about) say that macs aren't half bad and they use PCs only since they can't use macs without compatibility issues with there jobs and the directX issue(for the most part anyway)
Another thing, is that I know for a fact that people have been able to get both windows and Linux onto to macs and I really didn't think it would be that hard to get a mac OS onto a PC but I guess I was wrong...
also i would like to ask why do they cost so much, I have a P4 3.0 ghz, 2 gigs of DDR PC3200 Ram, 256 MB ATI raedon graphics card, DVD-ROM, DVD+RW, 120 GB HD... in which I built for only $1400(this included Windows XP PRO, OFFICE XP, and other software titles) I was looking for a Mac with equivalent attributes but all of them were way, way out of my price range
any one thanks for the help (although, I don't know why i am thanking half of you),
for posts like this, just be nice and give the facts with minimal opinions becuse most of us are apple centric so our views are vastly different
the best u can do is present the facts and hope for the best, because most of the time there is no reasoning with PC bigots, and starting off being defensive is the wrong tactice (belive me i've learned that)
it seems he is trying to post an honest question, unless he IS a PC bigot just wanting to spout 'problems of macs'
I am trying to post an honest question, I never thought that you guys were going to eat me alive like that...
I am trying to post an honest question, I never thought that you guys were going to eat me alive like that...
Byan
First off, Byan, i don't mind you and you are probably a nice fellow. Regardless, when you come to a mac-centric bulletin board and say:
Quote:
There are only around 5 reasons why Macs arn't more of the PCs- They tend to be slower, They cost more, They have only one mouse button, the compatiblity (if you have one or two PCs, the next one you get is going to be a PC so they can be used together), and the lack of video games because of DirectX
...then people get annoyed. this is for several reasons: (1) mac-heads here hear these arguments all the time, and they are for the most part completely untrue (2) an extension of the first...if you'd spend a little time reading threads on AI, etc., you'd be able to address most of your misconceptions. It isn't that big of a deal that you didn't, but know that people here get tired of the same ol', same ol'.
I don't mean to be flamatory, you are welcome to AI anytime. I'm going to address one thing you did mention about running OS X on PCs, etc.
here's the deal. the architecture of Mac processors is all based around PowerPC, while PCs are x86. Software for one architecture cannot run on the other. However, as you mentioned, windows can be run on a mac. This is because there is software emulation that converts the powerPC instructions into x86 instructions (i don't know the details of emulation, someone clear this up please ) Emulation is a far cry from windows on a PC and windows on a mac can only be run <b>within</b> the mac operating system and is quite slow and incapable of graphics acceleration and some other niceities of PC. Meaning you cannot boot a mac into windows, no how, no way. Macs simply weren't made to run windows.
Linux, as you know, is open-source, and someone can take the code for it and build it for x86 (PC) or PowerPC (Mac) or any other number of architectures, meaning it can run natively on the host it is compiled for and boot into it, etc. As you may know, there are mac (powerpc) specific builds of linux such as Yellow Dog. RedHat will not run on a mac since it is made for x86 and maybe one or two other platforms, among them NOT being PowerPC.
So, this means the only conceivable way to run the Mac OS on a PC (x86 architecture) is through emulation. I think it is possible that someone could manage to emulate powerpc and thus mac on a pc, but OS X would be slow as hell, since it is emulation and OS X requires so much graphics intervention. Basically there is no reason to emulate mac on a PC.
Hope this is helpful, and if i have any slight factual errors, someone please address them
Just thought of this one while i was having a cig and is a conversion i have to deal with on a daily basis of building them for punters.....
When your comparing systems or flogging a PC it all boils down to this in the end,
this pc has this many pci slots, onboard this onboard that and oh onboard thisthat, it can take ata132,132,313,132,123213,2331,3232 blah blah, it has a system bus of that and this, i can overclock, underclock extraclock tell the time clock, its psu is 10000watts, got a fan here there another up there and down there, slot a, socket a socket this blah blah blah!!!!!!!
theres just too much to remember to stay on top of the tech in the pc world and then just as you get on top of it all, theres a new processor socket or different type of memory with a completly different slot and then microsoft chips in and says right you got to upgrade your 1 year comp so you can run the latest OS and keep getting support cos our product is shit.
So when someone asks me well macs are expensive compared to pc's i just tell em a mac will last for many years without HAVING to upgrade all the flipping time. When you take in the total cost of upgrading a pc to stay current you could of had 2 macs, not touched the insides at all
and be a very happy productive person instead of having to reboot, format and memorising the entire oxford dictionary of computing.
who the heck says you have to upgrade your PC? I used a P2 400 mhz for 4 years..., and had no problems with it at all. the only thing I did upgrade was the graphics card which came from an older 95 computer and was only 8 MB
Another thing is that i mean do you really know anything about PCs or not since there really not that hard to comprehend..., it seems that either you were trying to make the PCs look dumb or you really dont know that much about them...:
1. PCs do have many PCI slots so that you can add alot of useful cards even though the average person hardly uses a forth of them
2. usually the "onboard", meaning that the device is on the motherboard, is not a good thing. Alot of Computer companies, especially HP, put extremely crapy sound and graphics devices on board and buy doing so they can lower the price..., ect
3. I am not even going to go into the ata thing, which I know hardly anything about
4. Only the extreme nerds ever Overclock there CPUs, it is very risky and voids your warranty
5. I dont know where you are going with the fan thing, what don't you have fans in your Mac? I never thought whcih ran cooler but i am pretty sure you would need some fans too...
6. slota, socket a: there are no a or anything in slots or sockets..., and speaking of which I am pretty sure pretty sure Macs have sockets or something of the sort since they are compatible with the internet...
7. too much to remmember?, this brings up the question of if any of you build your macs?
Well, i Guess I am done since, I really shouldn't be fighting this war alone because I will definatly lose but I would like to see one of you go onto a PC forum and post something..., although I doubt they will be as vicous as you were, since they aren't as close minded as you think... (there has been Mac Vs PC on PC forums before in which mac was loosing but not by much)
I fyou read that post properly yo would understand that it was based on a stereo typical situtaion, which i DO deal with daily.
I have been mucking around with PCs for a very long time on a professional basis and i have forgotten more than most people know, i switched to macs in december because they just work. Multitasking, reliability and speed.
True you dont have to keep upgrading your pc but as i said, most PC people that are as fanatical as mac users upgrade upgrade upgrade because they feel they have too.
macs cost more than a pc because its a smaller user base and hence a better quality and superior product.
I fyou read that post properly yo would understand that it was based on a stereo typical situtaion, which i DO deal with daily.
I have been mucking around with PCs for a very long time on a professional basis and i have forgotten more than most people know, i switched to macs in december because they just work. Multitasking, reliability and speed.
True you dont have to keep upgrading your pc but as i said, most PC people that are as fanatical as mac users upgrade upgrade upgrade because they feel they have too.
macs cost more than a pc because its a smaller user base and hence a better quality and superior product.
Well, at least you see that I was not trying to make a mockary of mac and I bet that you will be glad to know that 5 minutes ago my uncle called and told me that he had bought a Mac (although, it was just for his camcorder..., he has way too much money)
I would like to add that the stereo types in which you deal with everyday are usually form morans who know nothing about macs but nothing about PCs as well...
I would like to meat these people that have to "upgrade upgrade upgrade", most people I know almost never upgrade there system..., unless they were meaning to upgrade it from the beginning and wanted to wait till they needed it.., in which i mean when people buy Ram and graphics cards, they ussually get some crappy hardware since the games they use right now only use crappy hardware.. (ever notice that right now you only need a 32 MB graphics card for almost all games but they are making 256MB cards.., Same with Ram who needs 3 gigs of it), (with that I would like to add the only reason I have the superior stuff is since i got a great deal on the parts...)
thank you for all the replys and goodnight,
Byan
PS: I use the term "I would like to add", way too much...
Meaning you cannot boot a mac into windows, no how, no way. Macs simply weren't made to run windows.
well thats just great since, the only reason I even considered asking this question was because I was almost certain that you could boot to windows to a mac
I hate how stuff goes around and comes back differently then it left..., Since I know that I was told you could boot to windows...
I just went back and read your original post and since you are bound to come back and read just one last time I will answer you honestly, but with the same respect you gave us! (Collectively, a group of people you know nothing about! )
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Originally posted by Byan
I have a favor asked of me by my uncle..., He wants me to find out if and how it is possible to install a Mac OS on to a PC, according to him it is possible and "says" a friend has it on his comp.
Yes under emulation which has been explained. You still need a copy of the OS and of a Mac ROM image, so you might as well buy a mac.
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My uncle has around 6 OS on his computer and he decided that it would be useful from time to time for graphics stuff, and is planning to get a nice digital camcorder...
You uncle sounds like a bit of a fool to me! 6 OS's!!! The only reason I can think if for having 6 OS's is for developing, and if your uncle was a developer you would not be asking this question.
1 Computer is never going to be good at doing everything. Similar reason why you dont find a JCB digger bucket on the back of a Ford Focus.
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No Offense or anything, but I'm not that fond of Macs, although they do seem to have a small upperhand on graphics and arn't that bad.
No Offense taken, you are more than entitled to your own opinions.
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There are only around 5 reasons why Macs arn't more of the PCs- They tend to be slower, They cost more, They have only one mouse button, the compatiblity (if you have one or two PCs, the next one you get is going to be a PC so they can be used together), and the lack of video games because of DirectX
Mac's are not trying to be PC's, so I am sure we could collectively come up with a lot more reasons if you want to brainstorm sometime.
Unfortunately, you might leave disappointed as many of us have already been there and made our decisions on the facts we have witnessed first hand, and we are not here just for the nice colours, believe me.
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I have to admit though, they have a few macs for Video editing at school and they arn't too bad at doing so (even though the mouse button does drive me insane)
<lostboys mode> You are one of us Bryan... Let go of your fears... Let it all go!!</lostboys mode>
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well the bottom line is: is it possible to put a Mac OS on a PC with a couple other operation systems.
Yes, already answered.
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uh I guess I wouldn't be surprized if you didn't know how to do it since most of you wouldn't know too much about getting it installed on a PC becasue you don't...
Ahh the bit I really hate. So nice of you to make assumptions about an entire collection of people without even bothering to read around a bit first.
For a start, myself:- I have a Degree in computer studies, I have worked with both Mac's and PC's in professional environments for over 3 years, I run my own company developing websites and building PC workstations and servers (Sly dig, non of my customers have come back with burnt out hard drives ). I am also more than 50% way through becoming MCSE Certified. And I am sure there are many others here in similar situations.
So I guess I know more about PC's than you do, yet I wouldn't go into a PC forum and be derogatory about the general level of knowledge of a group of people I don't know. But since you started it, If you were SOOOO clued up in the world of computers you would not have asked? Your a bit thick really arn't you?
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well thanx in advance for all of the help,
Byan
No problem, come back anytime you feel you need putting back down!
This is exactly the type of post I wanted since the begining..., I was really disapointed with the mac communitee when almost everone hurried over to eat my attempted to ask a simple honest question,
I really thought that you guys would be more understanding, i was wrong...
I mean if you want to get more people to join the mac communitee this is the perfect example of a way to not to do it!!!\ I really think you should show them the facts and prove them wrong...
No PC user with any dignity at all, is going to say no to the facts, although I suppose alot of them are not going to beleive them when they are coming from you..., I think that mac stores need to have many demonstrations in which they attract alot of attention and let people try the macs and show them the performance of them
Bloody hell. See, this is another reason why others have a stigma against Mac users. It's because people like you are so pompous and arrogant about everything. All PC users are wrong and stupid. Oh, what a great argument to win over converts.
Byan: don't let the jerks here get to you. You had legitimate issues and, frankly, I don't know why people get so set off like that. I'll try to address a few more of your issues here.
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Another thing, is that I know for a fact that people have been able to get both windows and Linux onto to macs and I really didn't think it would be that hard to get a mac OS onto a PC but I guess I was wrong...
As I said before, the processor architecture is *completely* different. You can't run x86 (Windows, Linux) binaries on a PPC (Mac) any more than you could run a GameCube game of an XBox. It simply doesn't happen. The instruction sets for the processors are totally different. Machine code is different right down to the binary bit order. Just the same, you can't run PPC binaries on an x86.
However, what you were told about running Windows and Linux on Macs is partly true.
Since Linux is open-source, it can be compiled to run on practically ANY modern processor architecture. Shoot, people have gotten it to run on Playstations and iPods!! There are pre-built Linux installations for Macs as well. However, it is important to note that any binaries and programs you run will have to be recompiled for the PPC version of Linux. This isn't really a big issue since most Linux users I know compile everything fresh anyway.
Windows, on the other hand, is not open-source. It's build for x86 processors only. How can PPC processors use it then? Hardware emulation. The same way people use video game emulators for NES, SNES, and Playstation on their computers, people can use emulators for other computers. The emulator runs a "simulated" machine, converting every processor command on the fly in a contained environment. Connectix's VirtualPC allows you to do this for x86 computers. Here's an illustration of a couple emulated environments from Connectix's web site:
Similarly, Mac OS can be emulated on x86 PCs, but only up to the very old version Mac OS 8.1. This is because the emulators on PC don't try to emulate any modern PPCs; they're limited to the ancient 680x0 architecture that Macs used years ago. The popular Mac emulator for PCs is called "Bochs" I believe.
Though, it should be noted that because your computer is having to translate a huge number of commands in real-time, emulation is MUCH slower than using an actual separate machine. VirtualPC is okay for occasional use and business applications, but it is definitely not suitable for CPU-crunching games or 3D rendering programs and such.
I'm very sorry that these idiots discouraged you and probably further tainted your view of this community. I hope my explanations have been a little more helpful in your search for information.
Best of luck,
Brad
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Originally posted by Gargoyle
No problem, come back anytime you feel you need putting back down!
Only the extreme nerds ever Overclock there CPUs, it is very risky and voids your warranty
You rang? Both of my PCs are overclocked by about 20% and are still working years later. I use most of my PCI slots as well .
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this brings up the question of if any of you build your macs?
Hardly anyone does, as it isn't really cost effective. Although hard drives, RAM, DVD/CD drives, VGA/DVI monitors and USB mice/keyboards are interchangeable, CPUs are expensive and behind top end Macs (you can't buy teh 1.42GHz G4 CPU in the current PowerMac now and if you could, it would still be several hundred dollars even after the G5 announcement "obsoleting" current PowerMacs) and supplies of motherboards are rare (I saw some G4 cube motherboards on eBay a while ago...).
Having said that, my desktop Mac is self built: 40GB hard drive, SCSI CD burner, the awesome Voodoo 3 graphics card and a (generic) USB card. It's based around a machine from 1997, the 6400, and it still going strong: the finest technology from the end of the last century . Much more of a challenge than building my PC.
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You uncle sounds like a bit of a fool to me! 6 OS's!!! The only reason I can think if for having 6 OS's is for developing, and if your uncle was a developer you would not be asking this question.
Maybe he just likes messing around with PCs as a hobby? At one time I had Win2000, Win98, BeOS, Linux and Mac OS 8.1 (running under emulation ) on my PC. And I had a use for all of them (except BeOS).
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even though the mouse button does drive me insane
It's Microsoft Intellimice all round here, for Macs and PCs. The only time I use 1 mouse button is either when I'm using the PowerBook away from my desk or when I boot the desktop Mac from a boot CD/floppy that doesn't have USB drivers.
You rang? Both of my PCs are overclocked by about 20% and are still working years later. I use most of my PCI slots as well .
Hardly anyone does, as it isn't really cost effective. Although hard drives, RAM, DVD/CD drives, VGA/DVI monitors and USB mice/keyboards are interchangeable, CPUs are expensive and behind top end Macs (you can't buy teh 1.42GHz G4 CPU in the current PowerMac now and if you could, it would still be several hundred dollars even after the G5 announcement "obsoleting" current PowerMacs) and supplies of motherboards are rare (I saw some G4 cube motherboards on eBay a while ago...).
Having said that, my desktop Mac is self built: 40GB hard drive, SCSI CD burner, the awesome Voodoo 3 graphics card and a (generic) USB card. It's based around a machine from 1997, the 6400, and it still going strong: the finest technology from the end of the last century . Much more of a challenge than building my PC.
Maybe he just likes messing around with PCs as a hobby? At one time I had Win2000, Win98, BeOS, Linux and Mac OS 8.1 (running under emulation ) on my PC. And I had a use for all of them (except BeOS).
It's Microsoft Intellimice all round here, for Macs and PCs. The only time I use 1 mouse button is either when I'm using the PowerBook away from my desk or when I boot the desktop Mac from a boot CD/floppy that doesn't have USB drivers.
I didn't say I wasn't an extreme nerd, did I? I have but one PCI slot filled up and I overclocked my other 2100 AMD also by 20%. although, I didn't dare doing it On my P4
Also that brings on another reason that people don't get macs (I didn't add it on because I didn't know if it was all that true), they aren't as build-able meaning they aren't as costumizable.., even though I don't know if the mac's website has a Custom PC builder like many other PC sites do...
He does like messing around with PC as a hobby, I didn't mention that he is actually my great uncle, retired and 67
I have also know that there are mouses compatible with macs, with two buttons, etc. but I have also noticed that the context menus in Mac OS X are not nearly as good as ones in windows, probably because not all people use them...
now that you mention it I am still trying to figure out a way to copy stuff, there is no Copy and paiste that I know of in Mac OS X which also was driving me crazy at school...
Well half of you didn't turn out to be bad at all, although you guys really should stop biting peoples heads off when they ask a question and they aren't Mac users
although I bet there are many who just come in here and say stuff like: "Mac is crap, I hate macs, they're junk; I don't know or have ever used a mac and hardly can use a PC but I just hate macs..."
I would also like to ask if there are any Visual Basic compliers for mac, that is probably my #1 reason I don't use them: it would interfere with my Hobby...
Before I go on vacation to Minnesota for a week I would like to add that I keep thinking that when you talk about your processors you are talking about Game Cubes, I don't know why: "G4, G5" I don't know why that looks like "GC"
now that you mention it I am still trying to figure out a way to copy stuff, there is no Copy and paiste that I know of in Mac OS X which also was driving me crazy at school...
I dont get it, I never use copy or paste on windows because there is never a reason to, copy and paste is a very basic control on Mac that copys and pastes anything. If you are talking about files it is called duplicate, just hold the option key and drag it where you want it.
If you are talking about regular copying images or text there is always copy and paste in the edit menu
. . . I would also like to ask if there are any Visual Basic compliers for mac, that is probably my #1 reason I don't use them: it would interfere with my Hobby. . .
Visual Basic is a Microsoft copyrighted name. There are also some program development tools for the Mac aimed at quicker, easier application making. One is called Real Basic, and it come in several version, including student editions I think. The Pro edition will produce both Mac and Windows versions of your application, unlike Microsoft's Windows only approach.
even though I don't know if the mac's website has a Custom PC builder like many other PC sites do...
Apple do build to order, but some of the prices are more epxensive than elsewhere (e.g. RAM is particularly pricey at The Apple Store). Also, you can't completely gut the Mac and build it from the motherboard up: Apple's build to order scheme operates on an upgrading base models only basis. The only removeable item it the internal V92 modem, for a saving of $20.
Are there any development environment for Mac OS X that do autocompletion? (XCode? How do I get my has on XCode? Buy Panther?)
Comments
Originally posted by chu_bakka
hehe... funny thing is that "Byan" has yet to return... or comment.
Sorry for the wait...
and now after eating me, you are yet to barf me up and devour me again..., since the reason I haven't responded is because my PC's hard drive burnt out...
I would like to comment on the fact that you mac types are worse then most PC types, sure there is a small amount of people, the stereo types, that hate macs and think that whoever uses a mac can goto hell, but i and the majority (OK, of the people who can actually build there own computer..., and my opinion, if you can't build one then you really don't know what you are talking about) say that macs aren't half bad and they use PCs only since they can't use macs without compatibility issues with there jobs and the directX issue(for the most part anyway)
Another thing, is that I know for a fact that people have been able to get both windows and Linux onto to macs and I really didn't think it would be that hard to get a mac OS onto a PC but I guess I was wrong...
also i would like to ask why do they cost so much, I have a P4 3.0 ghz, 2 gigs of DDR PC3200 Ram, 256 MB ATI raedon graphics card, DVD-ROM, DVD+RW, 120 GB HD... in which I built for only $1400(this included Windows XP PRO, OFFICE XP, and other software titles) I was looking for a Mac with equivalent attributes but all of them were way, way out of my price range
any one thanks for the help (although, I don't know why i am thanking half of you),
Byan
Originally posted by ast3r3x
for posts like this, just be nice and give the facts with minimal opinions becuse most of us are apple centric so our views are vastly different
the best u can do is present the facts and hope for the best, because most of the time there is no reasoning with PC bigots, and starting off being defensive is the wrong tactice (belive me i've learned that)
it seems he is trying to post an honest question, unless he IS a PC bigot just wanting to spout 'problems of macs'
I am trying to post an honest question, I never thought that you guys were going to eat me alive like that...
Byan
Originally posted by Byan
I am trying to post an honest question, I never thought that you guys were going to eat me alive like that...
Byan
First off, Byan, i don't mind you and you are probably a nice fellow. Regardless, when you come to a mac-centric bulletin board and say:
There are only around 5 reasons why Macs arn't more of the PCs- They tend to be slower, They cost more, They have only one mouse button, the compatiblity (if you have one or two PCs, the next one you get is going to be a PC so they can be used together), and the lack of video games because of DirectX
...then people get annoyed. this is for several reasons: (1) mac-heads here hear these arguments all the time, and they are for the most part completely untrue (2) an extension of the first...if you'd spend a little time reading threads on AI, etc., you'd be able to address most of your misconceptions. It isn't that big of a deal that you didn't, but know that people here get tired of the same ol', same ol'.
I don't mean to be flamatory, you are welcome to AI anytime. I'm going to address one thing you did mention about running OS X on PCs, etc.
here's the deal. the architecture of Mac processors is all based around PowerPC, while PCs are x86. Software for one architecture cannot run on the other. However, as you mentioned, windows can be run on a mac. This is because there is software emulation that converts the powerPC instructions into x86 instructions (i don't know the details of emulation, someone clear this up please
Linux, as you know, is open-source, and someone can take the code for it and build it for x86 (PC) or PowerPC (Mac) or any other number of architectures, meaning it can run natively on the host it is compiled for and boot into it, etc. As you may know, there are mac (powerpc) specific builds of linux such as Yellow Dog. RedHat will not run on a mac since it is made for x86 and maybe one or two other platforms, among them NOT being PowerPC.
So, this means the only conceivable way to run the Mac OS on a PC (x86 architecture) is through emulation. I think it is possible that someone could manage to emulate powerpc and thus mac on a pc, but OS X would be slow as hell, since it is emulation and OS X requires so much graphics intervention. Basically there is no reason to emulate mac on a PC.
Hope this is helpful, and if i have any slight factual errors, someone please address them
Originally posted by cybermonkey
Just thought of this one while i was having a cig and is a conversion i have to deal with on a daily basis of building them for punters.....
When your comparing systems or flogging a PC it all boils down to this in the end,
this pc has this many pci slots, onboard this onboard that and oh onboard thisthat, it can take ata132,132,313,132,123213,2331,3232 blah blah, it has a system bus of that and this, i can overclock, underclock extraclock tell the time clock, its psu is 10000watts, got a fan here there another up there and down there, slot a, socket a socket this blah blah blah!!!!!!!
theres just too much to remember to stay on top of the tech in the pc world and then just as you get on top of it all, theres a new processor socket or different type of memory with a completly different slot and then microsoft chips in and says right you got to upgrade your 1 year comp so you can run the latest OS and keep getting support cos our product is shit.
So when someone asks me well macs are expensive compared to pc's i just tell em a mac will last for many years without HAVING to upgrade all the flipping time. When you take in the total cost of upgrading a pc to stay current you could of had 2 macs, not touched the insides at all
and be a very happy productive person instead of having to reboot, format and memorising the entire oxford dictionary of computing.
who the heck says you have to upgrade your PC? I used a P2 400 mhz for 4 years..., and had no problems with it at all. the only thing I did upgrade was the graphics card which came from an older 95 computer and was only 8 MB
Another thing is that i mean do you really know anything about PCs or not since there really not that hard to comprehend..., it seems that either you were trying to make the PCs look dumb or you really dont know that much about them...:
1. PCs do have many PCI slots so that you can add alot of useful cards even though the average person hardly uses a forth of them
2. usually the "onboard", meaning that the device is on the motherboard, is not a good thing. Alot of Computer companies, especially HP, put extremely crapy sound and graphics devices on board and buy doing so they can lower the price..., ect
3. I am not even going to go into the ata thing, which I know hardly anything about
4. Only the extreme nerds ever Overclock there CPUs, it is very risky and voids your warranty
5. I dont know where you are going with the fan thing, what don't you have fans in your Mac? I never thought whcih ran cooler but i am pretty sure you would need some fans too...
6. slota, socket a: there are no a or anything in slots or sockets..., and speaking of which I am pretty sure pretty sure Macs have sockets or something of the sort since they are compatible with the internet...
7. too much to remmember?, this brings up the question of if any of you build your macs?
Well, i Guess I am done since, I really shouldn't be fighting this war alone because I will definatly lose but I would like to see one of you go onto a PC forum and post something..., although I doubt they will be as vicous as you were, since they aren't as close minded as you think... (there has been Mac Vs PC on PC forums before in which mac was loosing but not by much)
Byan
I have been mucking around with PCs for a very long time on a professional basis and i have forgotten more than most people know, i switched to macs in december because they just work. Multitasking, reliability and speed.
True you dont have to keep upgrading your pc but as i said, most PC people that are as fanatical as mac users upgrade upgrade upgrade because they feel they have too.
macs cost more than a pc because its a smaller user base and hence a better quality and superior product.
Originally posted by cybermonkey
I fyou read that post properly yo would understand that it was based on a stereo typical situtaion, which i DO deal with daily.
I have been mucking around with PCs for a very long time on a professional basis and i have forgotten more than most people know, i switched to macs in december because they just work. Multitasking, reliability and speed.
True you dont have to keep upgrading your pc but as i said, most PC people that are as fanatical as mac users upgrade upgrade upgrade because they feel they have too.
macs cost more than a pc because its a smaller user base and hence a better quality and superior product.
Well, at least you see that I was not trying to make a mockary of mac and I bet that you will be glad to know that 5 minutes ago my uncle called and told me that he had bought a Mac (although, it was just for his camcorder..., he has way too much money)
I would like to add that the stereo types in which you deal with everyday are usually form morans who know nothing about macs but nothing about PCs as well...
I would like to meat these people that have to "upgrade upgrade upgrade", most people I know almost never upgrade there system..., unless they were meaning to upgrade it from the beginning and wanted to wait till they needed it.., in which i mean when people buy Ram and graphics cards, they ussually get some crappy hardware since the games they use right now only use crappy hardware.. (ever notice that right now you only need a 32 MB graphics card for almost all games but they are making 256MB cards.., Same with Ram who needs 3 gigs of it), (with that I would like to add the only reason I have the superior stuff is since i got a great deal on the parts...)
thank you for all the replys and goodnight,
Byan
PS: I use the term "I would like to add", way too much...
Meaning you cannot boot a mac into windows, no how, no way. Macs simply weren't made to run windows.
well thats just great since, the only reason I even considered asking this question was because I was almost certain that you could boot to windows to a mac
I hate how stuff goes around and comes back differently then it left..., Since I know that I was told you could boot to windows...
thanx again,
Byan
Originally posted by Byan
I have a favor asked of me by my uncle..., He wants me to find out if and how it is possible to install a Mac OS on to a PC, according to him it is possible and "says" a friend has it on his comp.
Yes under emulation which has been explained. You still need a copy of the OS and of a Mac ROM image, so you might as well buy a mac.
My uncle has around 6 OS on his computer and he decided that it would be useful from time to time for graphics stuff, and is planning to get a nice digital camcorder...
You uncle sounds like a bit of a fool to me! 6 OS's!!! The only reason I can think if for having 6 OS's is for developing, and if your uncle was a developer you would not be asking this question.
1 Computer is never going to be good at doing everything. Similar reason why you dont find a JCB digger bucket on the back of a Ford Focus.
No Offense or anything, but I'm not that fond of Macs, although they do seem to have a small upperhand on graphics and arn't that bad.
No Offense taken, you are more than entitled to your own opinions.
There are only around 5 reasons why Macs arn't more of the PCs- They tend to be slower, They cost more, They have only one mouse button, the compatiblity (if you have one or two PCs, the next one you get is going to be a PC so they can be used together), and the lack of video games because of DirectX
Mac's are not trying to be PC's, so I am sure we could collectively come up with a lot more reasons if you want to brainstorm sometime.
Unfortunately, you might leave disappointed as many of us have already been there and made our decisions on the facts we have witnessed first hand, and we are not here just for the nice colours, believe me.
I have to admit though, they have a few macs for Video editing at school and they arn't too bad at doing so (even though the mouse button does drive me insane)
<lostboys mode> You are one of us Bryan... Let go of your fears... Let it all go!!</lostboys mode>
well the bottom line is: is it possible to put a Mac OS on a PC with a couple other operation systems.
Yes, already answered.
uh I guess I wouldn't be surprized if you didn't know how to do it since most of you wouldn't know too much about getting it installed on a PC becasue you don't...
Ahh the bit I really hate. So nice of you to make assumptions about an entire collection of people without even bothering to read around a bit first.
For a start, myself:- I have a Degree in computer studies, I have worked with both Mac's and PC's in professional environments for over 3 years, I run my own company developing websites and building PC workstations and servers (Sly dig, non of my customers have come back with burnt out hard drives
So I guess I know more about PC's than you do, yet I wouldn't go into a PC forum and be derogatory about the general level of knowledge of a group of people I don't know. But since you started it, If you were SOOOO clued up in the world of computers you would not have asked? Your a bit thick really arn't you?
well thanx in advance for all of the help,
Byan
No problem, come back anytime you feel you need putting back down!
This is exactly the type of post I wanted since the begining..., I was really disapointed with the mac communitee when almost everone hurried over to eat my attempted to ask a simple honest question,
I really thought that you guys would be more understanding, i was wrong...
I mean if you want to get more people to join the mac communitee this is the perfect example of a way to not to do it!!!
No PC user with any dignity at all, is going to say no to the facts, although I suppose alot of them are not going to beleive them when they are coming from you..., I think that mac stores need to have many demonstrations in which they attract alot of attention and let people try the macs and show them the performance of them
well cya,
Byan
Byan: don't let the jerks here get to you. You had legitimate issues and, frankly, I don't know why people get so set off like that. I'll try to address a few more of your issues here.
Another thing, is that I know for a fact that people have been able to get both windows and Linux onto to macs and I really didn't think it would be that hard to get a mac OS onto a PC but I guess I was wrong...
As I said before, the processor architecture is *completely* different. You can't run x86 (Windows, Linux) binaries on a PPC (Mac) any more than you could run a GameCube game of an XBox. It simply doesn't happen. The instruction sets for the processors are totally different. Machine code is different right down to the binary bit order. Just the same, you can't run PPC binaries on an x86.
However, what you were told about running Windows and Linux on Macs is partly true.
Since Linux is open-source, it can be compiled to run on practically ANY modern processor architecture. Shoot, people have gotten it to run on Playstations and iPods!! There are pre-built Linux installations for Macs as well. However, it is important to note that any binaries and programs you run will have to be recompiled for the PPC version of Linux. This isn't really a big issue since most Linux users I know compile everything fresh anyway.
Windows, on the other hand, is not open-source. It's build for x86 processors only. How can PPC processors use it then? Hardware emulation. The same way people use video game emulators for NES, SNES, and Playstation on their computers, people can use emulators for other computers. The emulator runs a "simulated" machine, converting every processor command on the fly in a contained environment. Connectix's VirtualPC allows you to do this for x86 computers. Here's an illustration of a couple emulated environments from Connectix's web site:
Similarly, Mac OS can be emulated on x86 PCs, but only up to the very old version Mac OS 8.1. This is because the emulators on PC don't try to emulate any modern PPCs; they're limited to the ancient 680x0 architecture that Macs used years ago. The popular Mac emulator for PCs is called "Bochs" I believe.
Though, it should be noted that because your computer is having to translate a huge number of commands in real-time, emulation is MUCH slower than using an actual separate machine. VirtualPC is okay for occasional use and business applications, but it is definitely not suitable for CPU-crunching games or 3D rendering programs and such.
I'm very sorry that these idiots discouraged you and probably further tainted your view of this community. I hope my explanations have been a little more helpful in your search for information.
Best of luck,
Brad
Originally posted by Gargoyle
No problem, come back anytime you feel you need putting back down!
Jerk.
Mac is more than a computer... Its almost a belief.
Watch this:- http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc03/ and let us know what you think.
PS. make sure you set your connection speed in QT settings or you will get the 56k stream which is really poor quality.
Originally posted by Brad
Jerk.
/me snuggles close to brad. "You know you love me really!"
Originally posted by Gargoyle
/me snuggles close to brad. "You know you love me really!"
No, its fine....
that kind of sarcasm is not going to drive anyone away, and It's probably the kinda thing i would've done...
Byan
Only the extreme nerds ever Overclock there CPUs, it is very risky and voids your warranty
You rang? Both of my PCs are overclocked by about 20% and are still working years later. I use most of my PCI slots as well .
this brings up the question of if any of you build your macs?
Hardly anyone does, as it isn't really cost effective. Although hard drives, RAM, DVD/CD drives, VGA/DVI monitors and USB mice/keyboards are interchangeable, CPUs are expensive and behind top end Macs (you can't buy teh 1.42GHz G4 CPU in the current PowerMac now and if you could, it would still be several hundred dollars even after the G5 announcement "obsoleting" current PowerMacs) and supplies of motherboards are rare (I saw some G4 cube motherboards on eBay a while ago...).
Having said that, my desktop Mac is self built: 40GB hard drive, SCSI CD burner, the awesome Voodoo 3 graphics card and a (generic) USB card. It's based around a machine from 1997, the 6400, and it still going strong: the finest technology from the end of the last century
You uncle sounds like a bit of a fool to me! 6 OS's!!! The only reason I can think if for having 6 OS's is for developing, and if your uncle was a developer you would not be asking this question.
Maybe he just likes messing around with PCs as a hobby? At one time I had Win2000, Win98, BeOS, Linux and Mac OS 8.1 (running under emulation
even though the mouse button does drive me insane
It's Microsoft Intellimice all round here, for Macs and PCs. The only time I use 1 mouse button is either when I'm using the PowerBook away from my desk or when I boot the desktop Mac from a boot CD/floppy that doesn't have USB drivers.
Originally posted by Stoo
You rang? Both of my PCs are overclocked by about 20% and are still working years later. I use most of my PCI slots as well .
Hardly anyone does, as it isn't really cost effective. Although hard drives, RAM, DVD/CD drives, VGA/DVI monitors and USB mice/keyboards are interchangeable, CPUs are expensive and behind top end Macs (you can't buy teh 1.42GHz G4 CPU in the current PowerMac now and if you could, it would still be several hundred dollars even after the G5 announcement "obsoleting" current PowerMacs) and supplies of motherboards are rare (I saw some G4 cube motherboards on eBay a while ago...).
Having said that, my desktop Mac is self built: 40GB hard drive, SCSI CD burner, the awesome Voodoo 3 graphics card and a (generic) USB card. It's based around a machine from 1997, the 6400, and it still going strong: the finest technology from the end of the last century
Maybe he just likes messing around with PCs as a hobby? At one time I had Win2000, Win98, BeOS, Linux and Mac OS 8.1 (running under emulation
It's Microsoft Intellimice all round here, for Macs and PCs. The only time I use 1 mouse button is either when I'm using the PowerBook away from my desk or when I boot the desktop Mac from a boot CD/floppy that doesn't have USB drivers.
I didn't say I wasn't an extreme nerd, did I? I have but one PCI slot filled up and I overclocked my other 2100 AMD also by 20%. although, I didn't dare doing it On my P4
Also that brings on another reason that people don't get macs (I didn't add it on because I didn't know if it was all that true), they aren't as build-able meaning they aren't as costumizable.., even though I don't know if the mac's website has a Custom PC builder like many other PC sites do...
He does like messing around with PC as a hobby, I didn't mention that he is actually my great uncle, retired and 67
I have also know that there are mouses compatible with macs, with two buttons, etc. but I have also noticed that the context menus in Mac OS X are not nearly as good as ones in windows, probably because not all people use them...
now that you mention it I am still trying to figure out a way to copy stuff, there is no Copy and paiste that I know of in Mac OS X which also was driving me crazy at school...
Well half of you didn't turn out to be bad at all, although you guys really should stop biting peoples heads off when they ask a question and they aren't Mac users
although I bet there are many who just come in here and say stuff like: "Mac is crap, I hate macs, they're junk; I don't know or have ever used a mac and hardly can use a PC but I just hate macs..."
I would also like to ask if there are any Visual Basic compliers for mac, that is probably my #1 reason I don't use them: it would interfere with my Hobby...
Before I go on vacation to Minnesota for a week I would like to add that I keep thinking that when you talk about your processors you are talking about Game Cubes, I don't know why: "G4, G5" I don't know why that looks like "GC"
Well thanx 4 all you guy's time,
Byan
Originally posted by Byan
now that you mention it I am still trying to figure out a way to copy stuff, there is no Copy and paiste that I know of in Mac OS X which also was driving me crazy at school...
I dont get it, I never use copy or paste on windows because there is never a reason to, copy and paste is a very basic control on Mac that copys and pastes anything. If you are talking about files it is called duplicate, just hold the option key and drag it where you want it.
If you are talking about regular copying images or text there is always copy and paste in the edit menu
Originally posted by Byan
. . . I would also like to ask if there are any Visual Basic compliers for mac, that is probably my #1 reason I don't use them: it would interfere with my Hobby. . .
Visual Basic is a Microsoft copyrighted name. There are also some program development tools for the Mac aimed at quicker, easier application making. One is called Real Basic, and it come in several version, including student editions I think. The Pro edition will produce both Mac and Windows versions of your application, unlike Microsoft's Windows only approach.
I didn't say I wasn't an extreme nerd, did I?
However, I am extreme nerd.
even though I don't know if the mac's website has a Custom PC builder like many other PC sites do...
Apple do build to order, but some of the prices are more epxensive than elsewhere (e.g. RAM is particularly pricey at The Apple Store). Also, you can't completely gut the Mac and build it from the motherboard up: Apple's build to order scheme operates on an upgrading base models only basis. The only removeable item it the internal V92 modem, for a saving of $20.
Are there any development environment for Mac OS X that do autocompletion? (XCode? How do I get my has on XCode? Buy Panther?)