What that does prove though, is that the G4 still acquits itself well against mobile X86.
Desktop P4 is 85% faster than top P4-M, and while Intel does calim that Centrino is faster than P4-M, it does NOT claim that Centrino is faster (at all or even clock for clock) than desktop P4.
A one Ghz G4 is a 1Ghz G4 is a 1Ghz G4, more or less, and while it gets smoked by desktop X86, it isn't substantially slower than any Mobile X86 platform (P4M or centrino)
I don't see what's so wrong with the Ti relative to the other two PB's anyway. Tests show it to be pretty close to the 17" AL, the performance is there already and it won't get bumped untill the 17" can also get a nice bump.
RAM? SDR vs DDR is not really an issue, except that SDR is cheaper in so-dimm format, so you can save a bunch maxing out the RAM.
The only real drawback is the lack of AE and BT, but so what? It's got a PCcard slot, you can add that later if you really need it, and my guess is that you won't. I don't know of any Internet connections faster than 3Mbps, let alone 11.
With Matsu's comments in mind, is it fair to say that the 7457 will bring us closer to parity with Wintel laptops especially as more and more of their buyers move away from high end (PIV 3.06 Ghz) solutions to slower Centrino books?
With Matsu's comments in mind, is it fair to say that the 7457 will bring us closer to parity with Wintel laptops especially as more and more of their buyers move away from high end (PIV 3.06 Ghz) solutions to slower Centrino books?
Man, I have used Wintel laptops! They SUCK! Feature-wise, screen-wise, size/weight-wise, expansion/port-wise, you name it. The PowerBook is the MOTHER of all laptops and just because the CPU ain't 2.4GHz don't think that the PowerBooks are slow dogs. They are lean, mean, aluminum machines. I just ordered my 3rd one, and each model has been a TON better than anything Wintel out there. Parity? They wish!
With Matsu's comments in mind, is it fair to say that the 7457 will bring us closer to parity with Wintel laptops especially as more and more of their buyers move away from high end (PIV 3.06 Ghz) solutions to slower Centrino books?
I would definitely think so, but what will really help is the g5 powerbook next year. Really though, the more I compare them the less distance I think there is between the PowerBooks and current x86 laptops? Don't believe me? Look at cnet's "Ultrahip Ultraportables" vs. the 12" PB. The 12" holds its own in performance, features and price if you ask me (not weight though really, but if you can't lug a 4.5lb laptop..). I imagine an AlienWare Area-51M or equivalent would clean the clock of the 17" PB in performance, but if you want that kind of performance buy a G5 PM.
ManmadeReality, I think you are right to be frustrated about the lack of laptops updates until now.
But the dual 1.42 rig you described would cream pretty much any laptop for the tasks you describe. Since what you study requires the highest specs possible, you are probably going to be using a G5 soon right? AND then laptops will be even further behind, be they Wintel or Apple.
My point is that surely you would avoid doing that type of work on a laptop if at all possible, so why flog yourself in a vain attempt to find a suitable one?
Yeah I will eventually get a G5 but there are two problems right now. 1 I just got the above dual 1.42 rig. I knew the G5 was coming but I needed the system now like many others and so I bought it about 1.5 months ago with a nice 23inch display. Yeah I am helping Apple make profits but there is no need to drop more money on another desktop system.
The reason I need a portable is that my studio is 120 miles away from where I go to school. I can't move my studio because I will only be up at school 3 days a week the other 4 I work and live with my wife. I can't use the schools equipment past 10 pm. Many times I work until 3 or 4 in the morning. I refuse to get shafted again with buying another computer or powerbook that is about to become outdated or is severly outdated ie 15inch. I don't need a 2.5 GHz machine as someone above suggested I was requesting but I need something that is a powerhouse and is portable. The 15 inch right now has about the same specs as the iMac and according to MacAddict's review this month the newer eMac is faster than the iMac at many things. Everybody has problems and wines and I'm one of them. Apple could update the Ti 15inch with at least comparable specs to the 17inch but they choose not to. I would be completely happy if they bumbed up the system bus, increased the chip speed just a little, added firewire 800 and airport extreme. That would make it a better portable pro system and make it worth dropping $2600 on one.
1) People going for the higher number will also miss out on Centrino laptops, since their CPU is clocked at about half the speed of the P4. If they get it into their heads that a 1.4GHz Centrino isn't so bad, then the G4 doesn't look so bad either. The P4 can't be put in anything that takes itself seriously as a notebook, and the P4-M is gelded, so you can bet that there'll be a big marketing push toward the Centrino platform, which sports clock speeds right about in the 7457's range.
2) The MacAddict review is being hotly debated in another thread. Basically, their testing criteria aren't exactly robust. Tests from more reputable benchmarking sites (such as xlr8yourmac.com) show that the DDR PowerBooks have an edge over their older SDR brethren. If you get a top-end TiBook you are not getting a slow machine.
When we least expect it, fellas. When we least expect it...
Take a cue from yours truly and just let it all go a bit. Trust in Apple to do the right thing. In the meantine, enjoy your current Mac and OS X as much as possible (and keep working on methods to quickly sell it when that Magical Day arrives) and just enjoy the summer.
I've spent the past month or so would up a little too tight over the whole PowerBook thing. Feels good to just go "ahh, it's coming soon enough...ain't gonna sweat it too much".
To say Jobs' comment, "We think this is going to be the year of the laptop," is about sales is a misnomer. It's about demand.
In summation he said - Our sales of portables have been great, there's an increasing demand and we sense it, so our focus is shifting to meet that demand.
He wasn't trying to forecast sales to a meeting of shareholders - attempting to keep their interest in his stock. It was a direct marketing pitch to potential Apple customers at a high profile event, letting them know he was going to meet the changing demands of the market and that if you wanted to buy a laptop this was the year you should do it.
Changing the lineup of powerbooks to include a wider range of screen sizes extends Apple's potential share of the pro portable market - a good first step. Apple did nothing to meet increased portable demand for the rest of its machines, though, the real meat of the market, the 15" pb and the iBooks. As has been echoed, new screen sizes does not a year of the laptop make.
But, I submit to you, is an opening move to gain territory. It effectively maximizes the potential marketshare to be gained from the enemy, increasing the area of the board to be secured on the next move. It is a prelude to an undertaking that will seize parts the market.
Apple's marketing strategy is to increase marketshare so it is very much like an invasion, which requires a long term strategy - to get their pieces in the right sopts. Build up solid revenue, establish a brand image, make a presence through retail stores, hardware and software research and development, strategize the most efficient diversity of pro and consumer machines, prime the land with confusion, hype, and indecision - then deploy.
The words "year of the laptop," are meant to be reverberated in news articles, forums, discussions at work, and the minds of computer buyers everywhere - no one can ignore them. Combined with the switchers ads of the time they said, "look at us, we're going to be thinking about the demand for portables, watch what we're doing and consider," - and we all watched and considered, and the few that wanted large and small pro notebooks said "I'm on board!" and the rest of us said, "I'll wait and see what they do to the 15" and the iBooks... Well, the pot hasn't boiled yet, now has it? Which means the invasion has not yet begun.
Holy shit, some of you have taken one too many falls with ouy the protection of your pith helmets.
Year of the Laptop, what did Steve mean??? OMG! they're not updating the laptops? How can it be year of laptop without updates? Steve's ruining my life, OMG!
Jebus H kristi!!!
OK, one time, SLOOWWWWLY for the special kids.
Year of the laptop is pretty much year of the laptop for EVERY major computer maker out there. The price-performance-portability premium is closing enough that more people would rather have laptops than in the past. Sales in that category are growing faster than desktop sales, and this will be the best year for laptops yet, NOT JUST FOR APPLE!!!
Exactly what did you want hime to say back then? "Please, Buy one of our insanely overpriced G4 towers with almost enough performance to match a PC of half the cost?" Or mebbe, "Yeah, we won't be touching the rest of the laptop line for another 9 months, except mebbe to give the iBook a downgraded case and minor speed bump?"
Holy FVCK! some of you, I swear.
Apple's laptops are the savinng grace of the comapny and they're GOOD machines and still competitive. Now go find some other Steve quote to pant over while stroking your microscopic wieners with your mom's tweezers.
I think you're just jealous because you don't have a doctorate level understanding of strategic marketshare acquisition - or invasionary tactics of land level masses.
Damn. I haven't had this much fun since, well, gradeschool.
(< appropriate smilie)
Will injustices never cease? My grade school only had orange juice, not even OJ really, Tang, watered down Tang! Even jonestown had Koolaid, which, frankly, I think some of the teachers could have got more of, and the lunch lady, that filthy bag.
You nailed it BTW, that insult was straight out of my grade-school recess/lunch clique. I wonder if we went to school in the same area, or if these little childhood tropes travel a lot further than we may realize?
Heh, Matsu has it as DaveGee did earlier - *everybody has to stop treating an off the cuff remark like it was a fully formed marketing plan!!!!!*
Fred Anderson repeated it during the analyst conference call, so I don't think it was an off the cuff remark.
I'm not sure it was a marketing plan either, so much as an acknowledgement that laptop sales were about to eclipse desktop sales, and look, Apple's right on top of the trend.
Given the sales figures Apple just released, Steve's "off the cuff" remark has proven to be more accurate as a market assessment than the remarks of people demanding updates. Apple laptops are selling like hotcakes right now, and sales increased quarter to quarter. If the current trajectory holds, an update in time for the Christmas shopping season will be timed perfectly to goose sales back up.
It's hard to imagine after our long walk through the valley of the shadow of 500MHz, but things are looking pretty darn good right now.
In the meantine, enjoy your current Mac and OS X as much as possible
I don't own a Mac! Never have. Let alone one that can run OS X. I've only wanted to grab a PB since Jaguar came out, and once I realized that there should be new 15"s coming out soon (which was back in, like, March) I decided to wait until then. I can't take it any more!
It's hard to imagine after our long walk through the valley of the shadow of 500MHz, but things are looking pretty darn good right now.
Ah......the 500Mhz years.....coincidentally the exact time that I moved over from the dark side. How well I remember wondeing if there would ever be any updates. In fact the *very first* action Apple took after I switched was the infamous 'downdate'!!!!!!
Comments
Desktop P4 is 85% faster than top P4-M, and while Intel does calim that Centrino is faster than P4-M, it does NOT claim that Centrino is faster (at all or even clock for clock) than desktop P4.
A one Ghz G4 is a 1Ghz G4 is a 1Ghz G4, more or less, and while it gets smoked by desktop X86, it isn't substantially slower than any Mobile X86 platform (P4M or centrino)
I don't see what's so wrong with the Ti relative to the other two PB's anyway. Tests show it to be pretty close to the 17" AL, the performance is there already and it won't get bumped untill the 17" can also get a nice bump.
RAM? SDR vs DDR is not really an issue, except that SDR is cheaper in so-dimm format, so you can save a bunch maxing out the RAM.
The only real drawback is the lack of AE and BT, but so what? It's got a PCcard slot, you can add that later if you really need it, and my guess is that you won't. I don't know of any Internet connections faster than 3Mbps, let alone 11.
Originally posted by jouster
With Matsu's comments in mind, is it fair to say that the 7457 will bring us closer to parity with Wintel laptops especially as more and more of their buyers move away from high end (PIV 3.06 Ghz) solutions to slower Centrino books?
Man, I have used Wintel laptops! They SUCK! Feature-wise, screen-wise, size/weight-wise, expansion/port-wise, you name it. The PowerBook is the MOTHER of all laptops and just because the CPU ain't 2.4GHz don't think that the PowerBooks are slow dogs. They are lean, mean, aluminum machines. I just ordered my 3rd one, and each model has been a TON better than anything Wintel out there. Parity? They wish!
Originally posted by jouster
With Matsu's comments in mind, is it fair to say that the 7457 will bring us closer to parity with Wintel laptops especially as more and more of their buyers move away from high end (PIV 3.06 Ghz) solutions to slower Centrino books?
I would definitely think so, but what will really help is the g5 powerbook next year. Really though, the more I compare them the less distance I think there is between the PowerBooks and current x86 laptops? Don't believe me? Look at cnet's "Ultrahip Ultraportables" vs. the 12" PB. The 12" holds its own in performance, features and price if you ask me (not weight though really, but if you can't lug a 4.5lb laptop..). I imagine an AlienWare Area-51M or equivalent would clean the clock of the 17" PB in performance, but if you want that kind of performance buy a G5 PM.
Originally posted by Rhumgod
.......and just because the CPU ain't 2.4GHz don't think that the PowerBooks are slow dogs.......
I don't think the PBs are slow dogs.......but lots of potential buyers (who know no better so go with the highest number) do.
Originally posted by jouster
ManmadeReality, I think you are right to be frustrated about the lack of laptops updates until now.
But the dual 1.42 rig you described would cream pretty much any laptop for the tasks you describe. Since what you study requires the highest specs possible, you are probably going to be using a G5 soon right? AND then laptops will be even further behind, be they Wintel or Apple.
My point is that surely you would avoid doing that type of work on a laptop if at all possible, so why flog yourself in a vain attempt to find a suitable one?
Yeah I will eventually get a G5 but there are two problems right now. 1 I just got the above dual 1.42 rig. I knew the G5 was coming but I needed the system now like many others and so I bought it about 1.5 months ago with a nice 23inch display. Yeah I am helping Apple make profits but there is no need to drop more money on another desktop system.
The reason I need a portable is that my studio is 120 miles away from where I go to school. I can't move my studio because I will only be up at school 3 days a week the other 4 I work and live with my wife. I can't use the schools equipment past 10 pm. Many times I work until 3 or 4 in the morning. I refuse to get shafted again with buying another computer or powerbook that is about to become outdated or is severly outdated ie 15inch. I don't need a 2.5 GHz machine as someone above suggested I was requesting but I need something that is a powerhouse and is portable. The 15 inch right now has about the same specs as the iMac and according to MacAddict's review this month the newer eMac is faster than the iMac at many things. Everybody has problems and wines and I'm one of them. Apple could update the Ti 15inch with at least comparable specs to the 17inch but they choose not to. I would be completely happy if they bumbed up the system bus, increased the chip speed just a little, added firewire 800 and airport extreme. That would make it a better portable pro system and make it worth dropping $2600 on one.
1) People going for the higher number will also miss out on Centrino laptops, since their CPU is clocked at about half the speed of the P4. If they get it into their heads that a 1.4GHz Centrino isn't so bad, then the G4 doesn't look so bad either. The P4 can't be put in anything that takes itself seriously as a notebook, and the P4-M is gelded, so you can bet that there'll be a big marketing push toward the Centrino platform, which sports clock speeds right about in the 7457's range.
2) The MacAddict review is being hotly debated in another thread. Basically, their testing criteria aren't exactly robust. Tests from more reputable benchmarking sites (such as xlr8yourmac.com) show that the DDR PowerBooks have an edge over their older SDR brethren. If you get a top-end TiBook you are not getting a slow machine.
17" = same day
15"2 superdrive = 1/3 days
15"2 combo = same day
12"1 superdrive = 5/7 days
12"1 combo = 5/7 days
What do you think?
Year of the laptop ... what did Steve mean by saying such a thing??
jdl
Take a cue from yours truly and just let it all go a bit. Trust in Apple to do the right thing. In the meantine, enjoy your current Mac and OS X as much as possible (and keep working on methods to quickly sell it when that Magical Day arrives) and just enjoy the summer.
I've spent the past month or so would up a little too tight over the whole PowerBook thing. Feels good to just go "ahh, it's coming soon enough...ain't gonna sweat it too much".
To say Jobs' comment, "We think this is going to be the year of the laptop," is about sales is a misnomer. It's about demand.
In summation he said - Our sales of portables have been great, there's an increasing demand and we sense it, so our focus is shifting to meet that demand.
He wasn't trying to forecast sales to a meeting of shareholders - attempting to keep their interest in his stock. It was a direct marketing pitch to potential Apple customers at a high profile event, letting them know he was going to meet the changing demands of the market and that if you wanted to buy a laptop this was the year you should do it.
Changing the lineup of powerbooks to include a wider range of screen sizes extends Apple's potential share of the pro portable market - a good first step. Apple did nothing to meet increased portable demand for the rest of its machines, though, the real meat of the market, the 15" pb and the iBooks. As has been echoed, new screen sizes does not a year of the laptop make.
But, I submit to you, is an opening move to gain territory. It effectively maximizes the potential marketshare to be gained from the enemy, increasing the area of the board to be secured on the next move. It is a prelude to an undertaking that will seize parts the market.
Apple's marketing strategy is to increase marketshare so it is very much like an invasion, which requires a long term strategy - to get their pieces in the right sopts. Build up solid revenue, establish a brand image, make a presence through retail stores, hardware and software research and development, strategize the most efficient diversity of pro and consumer machines, prime the land with confusion, hype, and indecision - then deploy.
The words "year of the laptop," are meant to be reverberated in news articles, forums, discussions at work, and the minds of computer buyers everywhere - no one can ignore them. Combined with the switchers ads of the time they said, "look at us, we're going to be thinking about the demand for portables, watch what we're doing and consider," - and we all watched and considered, and the few that wanted large and small pro notebooks said "I'm on board!" and the rest of us said, "I'll wait and see what they do to the 15" and the iBooks... Well, the pot hasn't boiled yet, now has it? Which means the invasion has not yet begun.
Do the rest of you still think I'm overanalyzing?
Year of the Laptop, what did Steve mean??? OMG! they're not updating the laptops? How can it be year of laptop without updates? Steve's ruining my life, OMG!
Jebus H kristi!!!
OK, one time, SLOOWWWWLY for the special kids.
Year of the laptop is pretty much year of the laptop for EVERY major computer maker out there. The price-performance-portability premium is closing enough that more people would rather have laptops than in the past. Sales in that category are growing faster than desktop sales, and this will be the best year for laptops yet, NOT JUST FOR APPLE!!!
Exactly what did you want hime to say back then? "Please, Buy one of our insanely overpriced G4 towers with almost enough performance to match a PC of half the cost?" Or mebbe, "Yeah, we won't be touching the rest of the laptop line for another 9 months, except mebbe to give the iBook a downgraded case and minor speed bump?"
Holy FVCK! some of you, I swear.
Apple's laptops are the savinng grace of the comapny and they're GOOD machines and still competitive. Now go find some other Steve quote to pant over while stroking your microscopic wieners with your mom's tweezers.
Originally posted by Matsu
Now go find some other Steve quote to pant over while stroking your microscopic wieners with your mom's tweezers.
*sprays beer from mouth*
Damn. I haven't had this much fun since, well, gradeschool.
I really don't either, so,.. I feel your pain.
Originally posted by 709
*sprays beer from mouth*
Damn. I haven't had this much fun since, well, gradeschool.
Will injustices never cease? My grade school only had orange juice, not even OJ really, Tang, watered down Tang! Even jonestown had Koolaid, which, frankly, I think some of the teachers could have got more of, and the lunch lady, that filthy bag.
You nailed it BTW, that insult was straight out of my grade-school recess/lunch clique. I wonder if we went to school in the same area, or if these little childhood tropes travel a lot further than we may realize?
Anyway, no laugh beats a childhood laugh.
Originally posted by jouster
Heh, Matsu has it as DaveGee did earlier - *everybody has to stop treating an off the cuff remark like it was a fully formed marketing plan!!!!!*
Fred Anderson repeated it during the analyst conference call, so I don't think it was an off the cuff remark.
I'm not sure it was a marketing plan either, so much as an acknowledgement that laptop sales were about to eclipse desktop sales, and look, Apple's right on top of the trend.
Given the sales figures Apple just released, Steve's "off the cuff" remark has proven to be more accurate as a market assessment than the remarks of people demanding updates. Apple laptops are selling like hotcakes right now, and sales increased quarter to quarter. If the current trajectory holds, an update in time for the Christmas shopping season will be timed perfectly to goose sales back up.
It's hard to imagine after our long walk through the valley of the shadow of 500MHz, but things are looking pretty darn good right now.
Originally posted by pscates
In the meantine, enjoy your current Mac and OS X as much as possible
I don't own a Mac! Never have. Let alone one that can run OS X.
Originally posted by Amorph
It's hard to imagine after our long walk through the valley of the shadow of 500MHz, but things are looking pretty darn good right now.
Ah......the 500Mhz years.....coincidentally the exact time that I moved over from the dark side. How well I remember wondeing if there would ever be any updates. In fact the *very first* action Apple took after I switched was the infamous 'downdate'!!!!!!
Ah......the 450 Mhz months.......