About the ego thing, it's more what you described at the end. Everything was on the up and up... so the end result hurts a bit more.
I worked my ass off for these guys and even took on more responsibilities than were outlined during the interview (worked many Saturdays without pay for example). I also worked in substandard office conditions but that was my choice; I figured I could ignore it with the promise of better facilities before year's end. All bullsh*t.
Basically I did the "suck it up now so you can reap the rewards later on" thing, but it blew up in my face. I suspect now - after considering some unrelated details other employees have told me about in weeks past - that they never had any intention of keeping me around till "later". They got me for the few months they needed my talents, then found an excuse to get rid of me.
I needed a decent job when I took it, so I didn't question some things that I should have. I got burned, but in the end it's for the best because I WILL find something better and the company WILL continue to struggle because of the way they treat new people. Such is life though. I am so lucky to have a great family and friends, and so far my health too. And some good guys here at AI to lend supportive words too.
I am so lucky to have a great family and friends, and so far my health too. And some good guys here at AI to lend supportive words too.
thanks...
You're lucky.
Sometimes I think we forget about priorities in life. I have to keep reminding myself things like "saving for an Audi RS4" (should they ever introduce it again) is waaaaay down the list from "smiling at my wife."
Life sucks. That's just the way it is. It's how we react to life that's important. It's our attitudes that follows us around, whether we had a bad day or a good day. Some guys are grumpy no matter how lucky they get. Some guys are happy no matter how down on their luck they are.
I'm not going to say, "keep your chin up" and all that, but ask, "what do you want in life?"
(that and there are people who do both independantly, which is probably the route i will choose)..
Graduate school at a major medical school.
IME the MD/PhD is an MD with a packaged dissertation project. Kind of a, do these measurements and implement someone?s technique and write it up. Don't bother thinking or making an original contribution to the field. Where I went the MD/PhDs kept us asking, "They gave him a PhD? For that? Wasn't that Joe's work from 3 years ago, just in the brain this time? BFD!"
The ones that do both independent are worthy of praise.
IME the MD/PhD is an MD with a packaged dissertation project. Kind of a, do these measurements and implement someone?s technique and write it up. Don't bother thinking or making an original contribution to the field. Where I went the MD/PhDs kept us asking, "They gave him a PhD? For that? Wasn't that Joe's work from 3 years ago, just in the brain this time? BFD!"
The ones that do both independent are worthy of praise.
I do understand where you are coming from, and as a very science oriented (hopefully future) MD-PhD, there is and has always been a balance that needs to be struck in the fields of study. Granted, I am not planning on getting a PhD in a bio field, so that in itself precludes much of the use of same technique next question (my field of interest is a somewhat more chemically/physically focused biophysics, not structural)...
Life sucks. That's just the way it is. It's how we react to life that's important. It's our attitudes that follows us around, whether we had a bad day or a good day. Some guys are grumpy no matter how lucky they get. Some guys are happy no matter how down on their luck they are.
That's a good summation of the human condition I'd say. I'll try to carry that with me so I can put it to use on some of the trying days ahead. For now I'm going to blow off some steam for the rest of the week and forget about "the working world" for a bit. I deserve a bit o' fun, I'd say.
About the ego thing, it's more what you described at the end. Everything was on the up and up... so the end result hurts a bit more.
Err, well sorry to have touched a sore nerve then (not what I was going for, I hope you understand). ...but if they were going to get rid of you anyway, the outcome is still something that was outside your control. No way is a company that would play somebody out like that worth it to go the extra distance for (or to actually become "invested" in). It just sounds like they would just casually screw you over and over for as long as you cared to hang on, otherwise. I actually went through a very similar situation not too long ago- they would talk me into all sorts of "treat me lika bitch" predicaments under the guise of "being a team player" and such. Team this, team that...it was like somebody came through there with a 12-step plan and brainwashed everybody. I eventually came to the conclusion that they were going to get rid of me anyway, and if they did, f*ckit. This wasn't a place I would like to waste some number of years of my life anyway. I earned some nice change in the meantime. That's all it was about.
I think you got the right idea though- blow off some steam for a week and try to enjoy yourself.
I shall. Don't worry at all about my nerves; nothing you said bothered me in the least. At a minimum this is a good way to work through things so it's no big deal.
IME the MD/PhD is an MD with a packaged dissertation project. Kind of a, do these measurements and implement someone?s technique and write it up. Don't bother thinking or making an original contribution to the field. Where I went the MD/PhDs kept us asking, "They gave him a PhD? For that? Wasn't that Joe's work from 3 years ago, just in the brain this time? BFD!"
Unfortunately, that sort of attitude is as common as it is baseless. Unfortunate, because it adds to the counterproductive instiutional rivalries of MDs vs. MD/PhDs vs. PhDs. MD/PhDs in MSTPs are not MDs with a glorifed master's degree. But the time pressure to graduate after 4-5 years in the thesis lab (vs. 5-6 with a typical bio PhD) does lead to subtle differences, which I'm guessing is what you're referring to. MD/PhDs tend to pick less risky projects, since there is no time to change projects if something doesn't pan out after 3 years. They also don't extend their project as many grad students do, prefering to graduate rather than buff their CVs for an extra year or two. Neither of these makes it a "fake" PhD. In fact, it's more of a throwback to how PhDs used to be (and still are in places like the UK), before they became a semi-permanent lifestyle.
Have looked at... two years running and i still am not officially in one...
Harvard
UPENN
Cornell
Yale
Baylor
Jefferson (this is non-MSTP)
CWRU
Washington University, St. Louis
those are the ones I had interviews at this year or last.
Unfortunately, I have been waitlisted at 4 of these schools over the past two years and accepted then rejected by one (WASHU)
fun fun fun...
i tend to agree that there are issues, depending on the institution as far as how concerted the MD/PhD is. For instance, Harvard of all places lost its MSTP funding because it was taking too long for its students to graduate because of people like Scott. However, then again, a fully balanced career is almost impossible due to the politics of funding MD/PhDs in an academic institutional setting so choosing to focus on one side or the other (which leads to the interpretation by PhDs that MD/PhDs are glorified MDs, and by MDs that MD/PhDs are PhD snobs, a view even my father holds) during the training program makes some sense because it reflects the professional outcome...
Wow. I salute your persistance. Keep at it, and my best advice would be to apply to lots of programs. There's a huge element of random chance involved. My gf and I had similar grades and lab credentials coming out of college, and we each applied to over 20 programs, going to about a dozen interviews. Despite all that, we were accepted together to only two programs, and neither one was on our list of top choices. So cast your net wide. Everyone's a good candidate, and there isn't always a strong rationale for accepting one and rejecting another.
Also, I never realized until I'd been in a program for a while how powerful the coordinators are. Be nice to them, try to get to know them during your interviews, and if you get waitlisted or rejected, call them and ask: why, how to improve your application, and whether your application couldn't get another look from the directors. I would never have thought that could help, but apparently it really does work. One of our second-year MSTPs got in only after calling to ask for, and receiving, a second look. It would help, probably, if you really had your heart set on that school; and I'd keep in mind that coordinators talk to each other, so don't try that at too many schools.
Comments
Originally posted by Scott
Because they're all bad. You can either do a real Ph.D. or an MD but not both.
psha...
where have you been for the last 20 years?
(that and there are people who do both independantly, which is probably the route i will choose)..
About the ego thing, it's more what you described at the end. Everything was on the up and up... so the end result hurts a bit more.
I worked my ass off for these guys and even took on more responsibilities than were outlined during the interview (worked many Saturdays without pay for example). I also worked in substandard office conditions but that was my choice; I figured I could ignore it with the promise of better facilities before year's end. All bullsh*t.
Basically I did the "suck it up now so you can reap the rewards later on" thing, but it blew up in my face. I suspect now - after considering some unrelated details other employees have told me about in weeks past - that they never had any intention of keeping me around till "later". They got me for the few months they needed my talents, then found an excuse to get rid of me.
I needed a decent job when I took it, so I didn't question some things that I should have. I got burned, but in the end it's for the best because I WILL find something better and the company WILL continue to struggle because of the way they treat new people. Such is life though. I am so lucky to have a great family and friends, and so far my health too. And some good guys here at AI to lend supportive words too.
thanks...
Originally posted by Moogs
I am so lucky to have a great family and friends, and so far my health too. And some good guys here at AI to lend supportive words too.
thanks...
You're lucky.
Sometimes I think we forget about priorities in life. I have to keep reminding myself things like "saving for an Audi RS4" (should they ever introduce it again) is waaaaay down the list from "smiling at my wife."
Life sucks. That's just the way it is. It's how we react to life that's important. It's our attitudes that follows us around, whether we had a bad day or a good day. Some guys are grumpy no matter how lucky they get. Some guys are happy no matter how down on their luck they are.
I'm not going to say, "keep your chin up" and all that, but ask, "what do you want in life?"
Originally posted by billybobsky
psha...
where have you been for the last 20 years?
(that and there are people who do both independantly, which is probably the route i will choose)..
Graduate school at a major medical school.
IME the MD/PhD is an MD with a packaged dissertation project. Kind of a, do these measurements and implement someone?s technique and write it up. Don't bother thinking or making an original contribution to the field. Where I went the MD/PhDs kept us asking, "They gave him a PhD? For that? Wasn't that Joe's work from 3 years ago, just in the brain this time? BFD!"
The ones that do both independent are worthy of praise.
Originally posted by Scott
Graduate school at a major medical school.
IME the MD/PhD is an MD with a packaged dissertation project. Kind of a, do these measurements and implement someone?s technique and write it up. Don't bother thinking or making an original contribution to the field. Where I went the MD/PhDs kept us asking, "They gave him a PhD? For that? Wasn't that Joe's work from 3 years ago, just in the brain this time? BFD!"
The ones that do both independent are worthy of praise.
I do understand where you are coming from, and as a very science oriented (hopefully future) MD-PhD, there is and has always been a balance that needs to be struck in the fields of study. Granted, I am not planning on getting a PhD in a bio field, so that in itself precludes much of the use of same technique next question (my field of interest is a somewhat more chemically/physically focused biophysics, not structural)...
Life sucks. That's just the way it is. It's how we react to life that's important. It's our attitudes that follows us around, whether we had a bad day or a good day. Some guys are grumpy no matter how lucky they get. Some guys are happy no matter how down on their luck they are.
That's a good summation of the human condition I'd say. I'll try to carry that with me so I can put it to use on some of the trying days ahead. For now I'm going to blow off some steam for the rest of the week and forget about "the working world" for a bit. I deserve a bit o' fun, I'd say.
Originally posted by Moogs
About the ego thing, it's more what you described at the end. Everything was on the up and up... so the end result hurts a bit more.
Err, well sorry to have touched a sore nerve then (not what I was going for, I hope you understand). ...but if they were going to get rid of you anyway, the outcome is still something that was outside your control. No way is a company that would play somebody out like that worth it to go the extra distance for (or to actually become "invested" in). It just sounds like they would just casually screw you over and over for as long as you cared to hang on, otherwise. I actually went through a very similar situation not too long ago- they would talk me into all sorts of "treat me lika bitch" predicaments under the guise of "being a team player" and such. Team this, team that...it was like somebody came through there with a 12-step plan and brainwashed everybody. I eventually came to the conclusion that they were going to get rid of me anyway, and if they did, f*ckit. This wasn't a place I would like to waste some number of years of my life anyway. I earned some nice change in the meantime. That's all it was about.
I think you got the right idea though- blow off some steam for a week and try to enjoy yourself.
Originally posted by Scott
IME the MD/PhD is an MD with a packaged dissertation project. Kind of a, do these measurements and implement someone?s technique and write it up. Don't bother thinking or making an original contribution to the field. Where I went the MD/PhDs kept us asking, "They gave him a PhD? For that? Wasn't that Joe's work from 3 years ago, just in the brain this time? BFD!"
Unfortunately, that sort of attitude is as common as it is baseless. Unfortunate, because it adds to the counterproductive instiutional rivalries of MDs vs. MD/PhDs vs. PhDs. MD/PhDs in MSTPs are not MDs with a glorifed master's degree. But the time pressure to graduate after 4-5 years in the thesis lab (vs. 5-6 with a typical bio PhD) does lead to subtle differences, which I'm guessing is what you're referring to. MD/PhDs tend to pick less risky projects, since there is no time to change projects if something doesn't pan out after 3 years. They also don't extend their project as many grad students do, prefering to graduate rather than buff their CVs for an extra year or two. Neither of these makes it a "fake" PhD. In fact, it's more of a throwback to how PhDs used to be (and still are in places like the UK), before they became a semi-permanent lifestyle.
Originally posted by Towel
Billybobsky, what programs are you looking at?
Have looked at... two years running and i still am not officially in one...
Harvard
UPENN
Cornell
Yale
Baylor
Jefferson (this is non-MSTP)
CWRU
Washington University, St. Louis
those are the ones I had interviews at this year or last.
Unfortunately, I have been waitlisted at 4 of these schools over the past two years and accepted then rejected by one (WASHU)
fun fun fun...
i tend to agree that there are issues, depending on the institution as far as how concerted the MD/PhD is. For instance, Harvard of all places lost its MSTP funding because it was taking too long for its students to graduate because of people like Scott. However, then again, a fully balanced career is almost impossible due to the politics of funding MD/PhDs in an academic institutional setting so choosing to focus on one side or the other (which leads to the interpretation by PhDs that MD/PhDs are glorified MDs, and by MDs that MD/PhDs are PhD snobs, a view even my father holds) during the training program makes some sense because it reflects the professional outcome...
Also, I never realized until I'd been in a program for a while how powerful the coordinators are. Be nice to them, try to get to know them during your interviews, and if you get waitlisted or rejected, call them and ask: why, how to improve your application, and whether your application couldn't get another look from the directors. I would never have thought that could help, but apparently it really does work. One of our second-year MSTPs got in only after calling to ask for, and receiving, a second look. It would help, probably, if you really had your heart set on that school; and I'd keep in mind that coordinators talk to each other, so don't try that at too many schools.