I'm glad Lacie have figured out how to utterly destroy any profitability and repeat business by using bridge cards in their external FW enclosures that have failed twice for me.
I have this sick feeling that Apple is being forced (due to production issues) to repeat the infamous 'speed dump'.
Could the truth in this rumor (if there is any) be that Apple can't get enought 2G 970s from IBM, so they will downgrade all orders to 1.8 DPs for less money?
Could the truth in this rumor (if there is any) be that Apple can't get enought 2G 970s from IBM, so they will downgrade all orders to 1.8 DPs for less money?
I think Apple underestimated demand for the dual 2G machine.
Besides, with all of the touting of how well OSX makes use of multiple processors, does it make sense to have only 1 dual offering?
The G5 case is gigantic, they chould have and should have found room for 2 extra drive bays within those dimensions.
To the posters arguing about cost, that's ridiculous, two extra plugs and a better internal layout wouldn't even cost 50 cents to add.
There simply aren't any rationalizations that can save this design choice. Multiple drives are a great idea because they increase flexibility. The heat is a non issue, just as there is a fan to cool two drives, there can be a fan to cool 4, no big deal.
Just looking at the case you can see plenty of room for 2 additional HDD's if they just tweak the "zones" a tad.
The case is quite deep and the see through plastic baffle is fairly deeply sculpted. Drives could practically fit right on the door. But that isn't needed, ading two bays right under the optical would be ridiculously easy within the dimensions of the current case.
The case is 18.7" deep! A full length PCI card is 12" long. The PCI "zone" has 6.7" to spare. Instead of that fan at the front of the PCI zone, two transverse HDD's would fit a treat (with the same orientation as the two drives in the top most Drive zone. Pull them right up close to the front of the case and you still have room to place a fan between the front mounted drives and the rear PCI cards. Done. Simple.
It's just the most glaring oversight in an otherwise decent case.
Here where I work producing training material/tech manuals/software tools there is NOT ONE machine (desktop) with more than 2 drives. Everything is stored on the network and the only files to be found on a local machine are those currently being worked on which go directly BACK to the server when they are finished. I consider my workplace to be a fairly professional operation (~200 in my department).
Which professionals are put out by the lack of drives? The ones who work for themselves and don't want to put out for an extra machine? Hell, an older tower makes a dandy fileserver for this type of person. xRaid is really the way to go though. Storing everything local is a recipe for disaster, especially if your livelihood is riding on it.
I have this sick feeling that Apple is being forced (due to production issues) to repeat the infamous 'speed dump'.
Could the truth in this rumor (if there is any) be that Apple can't get enought 2G 970s from IBM, so they will downgrade all orders to 1.8 DPs for less money?
I hope I'm wrong.
You are thinking the worst of a situation that may be better than expected. IF the do bring in a 1.8GHz DP at that price, it would only be to ease the demand on the 2.0GHz DP. But don't worry about the high end, it'll stay the way it is. they got a lot of flak for the 500-450MHz G4 fiasco. They won't repeat that mistake. The new mistake is the high price of the lower end machine hopefully to be corrected soon.
The G5 case is gigantic, they chould have and should have found room for 2 extra drive bays within those dimensions.
To the posters arguing about cost, that's ridiculous, two extra plugs and a better internal layout wouldn't even cost 50 cents to add.
There simply aren't any rationalizations that can save this design choice. Multiple drives are a great idea because they increase flexibility. The heat is a non issue, just as there is a fan to cool two drives, there can be a fan to cool 4, no big deal.
Just looking at the case you can see plenty of room for 2 additional HDD's if they just tweak the "zones" a tad.
The case is quite deep and the see through plastic baffle is fairly deeply sculpted. Drives could practically fit right on the door. But that isn't needed, ading two bays right under the optical would be ridiculously easy within the dimensions of the current case.
The case is 18.7" deep! A full length PCI card is 12" long. The PCI "zone" has 6.7" to spare. Instead of that fan at the front of the PCI zone, two transverse HDD's would fit a treat (with the same orientation as the two drives in the top most Drive zone. Pull them right up close to the front of the case and you still have room to place a fan between the front mounted drives and the rear PCI cards. Done. Simple.
It's just the most glaring oversight in an otherwise decent case.
It may all be a secret plan for Apple to sell more XRAIDs.
I'm fine with 2 drives and don't need RAID. Why should 90% of the buyers pay for something you or Matsu think to need?
This argument could be applied to alot of the features in the G5.
Many will not need 3 PCI(-X) ports, alot will never need 5:1 sound, or even optical, but we all like having the options.
The machine is supposed to, since there's only one kind of tower you can get without doing something serious (like stuffing the guts in a PC case). That one tower is targeted at a very broad, high-end market-segment, where there is an equally broad span of widths. I believe (which of course means I have no facts to back it up, I'll resign my argument if someone could prove me wrong on this) there's enough people wanting at least a third expansion-bay to justify the added cost.
I, as many others, like to have options, and having only 2 bays of expansion (1 free) removes options for me. I must choose the largest possible harddrive, because if I choose the smaller one, I'll need a 3rd disk to have sufficient amounts of space, as I plan to have this machine for more than one year. If I had 3 bays +, I'd be able to choose cheaper and smaller disks for now, and upgrade steadily with some not-so-huge disks. With two, I must purchase two big ones, or throw one out when I want to upgrade - disadvantage.
Sure, I could get an external FireWire drive, but if it's one thing I think is really awkward, it is external boxes on my desk in addition to all my other equipment. Hell, I don't even have the space for one right now.
And I don't quite see what's wrong with having options. Sure, it'd be more costly to have additional bays, the question is: How much? I don't think it'd be an amount that would make us run away from this machine
Maybe I've actually been reading too much PC-fanboy arguments, however, it could be an argument for those who are potential switchers, to not switch. The PC fanboys obviously read and hear what others are saying, and ends up believing that they need alot of expansion-bays (and I know of alot of PC-folks that have more than 2 disks in their boxes). Apple is trying to attract switchers, right?
Anyways, we should know that Apple have done good job with this machine, when we end up with a discussion like this, of how many expansion-bays there are
I'm fine with 2 drives and don't need RAID. Why should 90% of the buyers pay for something you or Matsu think to need?
Stop whining about Apple not to build <<put in your personell dream system>>. It's boring after the 1000th time!
I have no use for gigabit ethernet
I don't wanna pay the extra cost for it.
Why is it there? hardly anyone uses it
See the logic in your argument? I think mac users are the only people who would be gullible and blind enough to think that adding SPACE and a connector would somehow result in a huge price increase
What can I say...I highly doubt this claim. I can't remember a single time in Apple's history when a product was updated before shipping to the general publis. This would confuse many people, and present further logistical problems for Apple. For example...the Powermac Dual 2.0's cooling system was designed specifically for the Dual 2.0, and the powermac 1.8's system for the 1.8. Changing the already-butild models wouldn't be worth the struggle, unless some patch could be released before shipping.
This sounds plenty ulikely. Anyway, Apple will be able to use up the 1.8's on Rev. B's low end model.
It seems to me that you could argue that Apple has had a huge sucess because they have created hugh demand for their most expensive machine, which is a nice position to be in. However, if they can't ship them because there are not enough chips to go around and they have sufficent 1.8's then it might make some sense. Apple is likely to make more money selling 1.8 sp than 1.8 dp machines and if they have 26,000 backorders I wouldn't want to half the capacity by doubling the processor requirement.
Apple has not yet shipped any machines and the chances of them re-configuring their lineup before they are aboe to me demand for any product seems unlikely. In hindsight they should have probably brought out a 1.6 sp , 1.8 dp and a 2ghz dp but at a higher price until the supply/demand curve is ballanced. With a brand new processor like this it must have been difficult to assess demand as I expect that having tested the machines Apple have assumed that a single 1.6 or 1.8 is such a speed improvement over what we alreadfy have that more people would have been satisifed with their performance. We the public havn't so naturally gravitate towards the best machine. I am willing to be that the 1.8 sp with Panther is still going to blow most of us away, it's just that we don't know it yet.
I doubt this claim too, it's a bit too good to be true, IMO
However, Apple have surprised us before. If they see the need, or possibility to make money, and at the same time a way to relieve the dual 2 gigger of the spell of late shipments, that's been cast on it.
I don't think the cooling system would be an issue at all. They've already done the ground work for a dual processor system dissipating more heat than the 1.8, and making the same system work on a couple of cooler processors could hardly be a real issue, could it?
Apple could have seen this very early, and have planned this for alot longer than the rumor has been out. Maybe they're trying to form a plan to do it, or even offer it within short
I'll sit here and hope, hope, and hope for a dual 1.8 gigger
i planned on a dual 2 gig but i really don't need the speed so maybe a dual 1.8 and get the bluetooth keyboard and mouse? I bet a dual 1.8 would have to turn on the hoover mode fan even less too.
Comments
Originally posted by hmurchison
ummmm....riiiiiiight.
Guys just add a Half Terabyte drive in a couple of years. Don't worry be happy.
You can already put a half terabyte of storage internally.
Do you really need more than that?
I've been doing video work for 10 years and have always stored assets on external drive arrays.
It's not that big a deal to get an external firewire drive.
All of our Macs have one or two internal drives, max.
How many of you that are so upset about this are actually pros?
Originally posted by keyboardf12
I'm glad apple put firewire ports on macs.
I'm glad Lacie have figured out how to utterly destroy any profitability and repeat business by using bridge cards in their external FW enclosures that have failed twice for me.
So what about those supposed 1.8 DPs?
I have this sick feeling that Apple is being forced (due to production issues) to repeat the infamous 'speed dump'.
Could the truth in this rumor (if there is any) be that Apple can't get enought 2G 970s from IBM, so they will downgrade all orders to 1.8 DPs for less money?
I hope I'm wrong.
Originally posted by Transcendental Octothorpe
Could the truth in this rumor (if there is any) be that Apple can't get enought 2G 970s from IBM, so they will downgrade all orders to 1.8 DPs for less money?
I think Apple underestimated demand for the dual 2G machine.
Besides, with all of the touting of how well OSX makes use of multiple processors, does it make sense to have only 1 dual offering?
To the posters arguing about cost, that's ridiculous, two extra plugs and a better internal layout wouldn't even cost 50 cents to add.
There simply aren't any rationalizations that can save this design choice. Multiple drives are a great idea because they increase flexibility. The heat is a non issue, just as there is a fan to cool two drives, there can be a fan to cool 4, no big deal.
Just looking at the case you can see plenty of room for 2 additional HDD's if they just tweak the "zones" a tad.
The case is quite deep and the see through plastic baffle is fairly deeply sculpted. Drives could practically fit right on the door. But that isn't needed, ading two bays right under the optical would be ridiculously easy within the dimensions of the current case.
The case is 18.7" deep! A full length PCI card is 12" long. The PCI "zone" has 6.7" to spare. Instead of that fan at the front of the PCI zone, two transverse HDD's would fit a treat (with the same orientation as the two drives in the top most Drive zone. Pull them right up close to the front of the case and you still have room to place a fan between the front mounted drives and the rear PCI cards. Done. Simple.
It's just the most glaring oversight in an otherwise decent case.
Which professionals are put out by the lack of drives? The ones who work for themselves and don't want to put out for an extra machine? Hell, an older tower makes a dandy fileserver for this type of person. xRaid is really the way to go though. Storing everything local is a recipe for disaster, especially if your livelihood is riding on it.
Maybe you should apply for a job in Apple's industrial design division.
Originally posted by Transcendental Octothorpe
Um....
So what about those supposed 1.8 DPs?
I have this sick feeling that Apple is being forced (due to production issues) to repeat the infamous 'speed dump'.
Could the truth in this rumor (if there is any) be that Apple can't get enought 2G 970s from IBM, so they will downgrade all orders to 1.8 DPs for less money?
I hope I'm wrong.
You are thinking the worst of a situation that may be better than expected. IF the do bring in a 1.8GHz DP at that price, it would only be to ease the demand on the 2.0GHz DP. But don't worry about the high end, it'll stay the way it is. they got a lot of flak for the 500-450MHz G4 fiasco. They won't repeat that mistake. The new mistake is the high price of the lower end machine hopefully to be corrected soon.
Originally posted by Matsu
The G5 case is gigantic, they chould have and should have found room for 2 extra drive bays within those dimensions.
To the posters arguing about cost, that's ridiculous, two extra plugs and a better internal layout wouldn't even cost 50 cents to add.
There simply aren't any rationalizations that can save this design choice. Multiple drives are a great idea because they increase flexibility. The heat is a non issue, just as there is a fan to cool two drives, there can be a fan to cool 4, no big deal.
Just looking at the case you can see plenty of room for 2 additional HDD's if they just tweak the "zones" a tad.
The case is quite deep and the see through plastic baffle is fairly deeply sculpted. Drives could practically fit right on the door. But that isn't needed, ading two bays right under the optical would be ridiculously easy within the dimensions of the current case.
The case is 18.7" deep! A full length PCI card is 12" long. The PCI "zone" has 6.7" to spare. Instead of that fan at the front of the PCI zone, two transverse HDD's would fit a treat (with the same orientation as the two drives in the top most Drive zone. Pull them right up close to the front of the case and you still have room to place a fan between the front mounted drives and the rear PCI cards. Done. Simple.
It's just the most glaring oversight in an otherwise decent case.
It may all be a secret plan for Apple to sell more XRAIDs.
There simply aren't any rationalizations that can save this design choice.
Other than 97% of the time they would never be used?
And for those other 3% when they do people can use firewire and xseerves and xraids and fiber channel and... and....
Originally posted by smalM
I'm fine with 2 drives and don't need RAID. Why should 90% of the buyers pay for something you or Matsu think to need?
This argument could be applied to alot of the features in the G5.
Many will not need 3 PCI(-X) ports, alot will never need 5:1 sound, or even optical, but we all like having the options.
The machine is supposed to, since there's only one kind of tower you can get without doing something serious (like stuffing the guts in a PC case). That one tower is targeted at a very broad, high-end market-segment, where there is an equally broad span of widths. I believe (which of course means I have no facts to back it up, I'll resign my argument if someone could prove me wrong on this) there's enough people wanting at least a third expansion-bay to justify the added cost.
I, as many others, like to have options, and having only 2 bays of expansion (1 free) removes options for me. I must choose the largest possible harddrive, because if I choose the smaller one, I'll need a 3rd disk to have sufficient amounts of space, as I plan to have this machine for more than one year. If I had 3 bays +, I'd be able to choose cheaper and smaller disks for now, and upgrade steadily with some not-so-huge disks. With two, I must purchase two big ones, or throw one out when I want to upgrade - disadvantage.
Sure, I could get an external FireWire drive, but if it's one thing I think is really awkward, it is external boxes on my desk in addition to all my other equipment. Hell, I don't even have the space for one right now.
And I don't quite see what's wrong with having options. Sure, it'd be more costly to have additional bays, the question is: How much? I don't think it'd be an amount that would make us run away from this machine
Maybe I've actually been reading too much PC-fanboy arguments, however, it could be an argument for those who are potential switchers, to not switch. The PC fanboys obviously read and hear what others are saying, and ends up believing that they need alot of expansion-bays (and I know of alot of PC-folks that have more than 2 disks in their boxes). Apple is trying to attract switchers, right?
Anyways, we should know that Apple have done good job with this machine, when we end up with a discussion like this, of how many expansion-bays there are
Originally posted by smalM
I'm fine with 2 drives and don't need RAID. Why should 90% of the buyers pay for something you or Matsu think to need?
Stop whining about Apple not to build <<put in your personell dream system>>. It's boring after the 1000th time!
I have no use for gigabit ethernet
I don't wanna pay the extra cost for it.
Why is it there? hardly anyone uses it
See the logic in your argument? I think mac users are the only people who would be gullible and blind enough to think that adding SPACE and a connector would somehow result in a huge price increase
As stated before, I'm sure this would relieve some of the demand for the dual 2Gs, and give them some breathing room.
This sounds plenty ulikely. Anyway, Apple will be able to use up the 1.8's on Rev. B's low end model.
Apple has not yet shipped any machines and the chances of them re-configuring their lineup before they are aboe to me demand for any product seems unlikely. In hindsight they should have probably brought out a 1.6 sp , 1.8 dp and a 2ghz dp but at a higher price until the supply/demand curve is ballanced. With a brand new processor like this it must have been difficult to assess demand as I expect that having tested the machines Apple have assumed that a single 1.6 or 1.8 is such a speed improvement over what we alreadfy have that more people would have been satisifed with their performance. We the public havn't so naturally gravitate towards the best machine. I am willing to be that the 1.8 sp with Panther is still going to blow most of us away, it's just that we don't know it yet.
However, Apple have surprised us before. If they see the need, or possibility to make money, and at the same time a way to relieve the dual 2 gigger of the spell of late shipments, that's been cast on it.
I don't think the cooling system would be an issue at all. They've already done the ground work for a dual processor system dissipating more heat than the 1.8, and making the same system work on a couple of cooler processors could hardly be a real issue, could it?
Apple could have seen this very early, and have planned this for alot longer than the rumor has been out. Maybe they're trying to form a plan to do it, or even offer it within short
I'll sit here and hope, hope, and hope for a dual 1.8 gigger
hmm...