IBM actually had the ability to do 1+ Ghz G3 processors for quite a bit longer than the G4 was able to do 1 Ghz.
Doubtful, at the very least. The G3 has quite a short pipeline (compared to a P4/PPC970), so it would be expected to scale rather slowly. Until very recently, the G3 was on a very limited bus (I do not know if this still is true), so its throughput would be abysmal.
The G3 "Gobi" actually missed the predicted timeframe for release quite some months.
The "G3 is held back by the G4" is a myth, imho - but it is one that keeps replicating for about two years now.
IBM actually had the ability to do 1+ Ghz G3 processors for quite a bit longer than the G4 was able to do 1 Ghz.
This is a myth. The fact is that had IBM met their own expectations for the G3 "Sahara," the iBook would currently be running at 1GHz. It fell short. The G3s Apple uses have consistently been the fastest IBM can make.
There's no magic involved here. The G4 has a longer pipeline than the G3; otherwise, absent AltiVec, the two CPUs are quite similar. But because of the pipeline length, the G4 should clock higher. And so it does.
Neither architecture is designed to scale rapidly MHz-wise.
I think the G4 will make its departure from Apple's product line before the G3 does.
The fact that PowerBooks haven't been updated in up to 10 months means that either Apple has been secretly working on one with a low-end G5 processor, or more likely, Motorola can't get them the faster G4s Apple needs to make a revision. There is a contigent of people that think Apple is poised to update the PowerBooks to a G5 at Paris. As much I would like to see that happen, I don't think it's going to, and there are plenty of other people here who share my pessimism on that front.
The point that has been underlying all the discussion on new PowerBooks is that Apple would be better off doing something, than nothing. Nothing is all they have had to show thus far, and they better get the gravy train back on track.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Paris expo was the time for an update, but it would really make more sense to launch new PowerBooks this week. Most students looking at getting laptops are looking at getting them this particular week. A two-week delay would be small comfort even with immediate availability when they are launched. It would even make more sense to do the reverse: announce now and ship in a couple of weeks. At least then students could plan on the upgrade instead of buying something else prematurely and regretting it.
While I'm thinking about it, can you imagine what might happen if Apple doesn't even have PowerBooks to announce by the Apple Expo keynote? Jobs called 2003 the year of the notebook, and I don't think that he enjoys having his words undermined by suppliers (i.e. Motorola) and/or design problems.
I'm beginning to think the whole PowerBook line is passing into history, and the iBook will be updated to a faster G3, say 1.2GHz. Maybe there will be a G5 PowerBook late in 2004, but there's no way to make the existing hardware go any faster. Why update it?
In answer to this thread's question: yes, tomorrow.
How do you know? or are you just kidding?
Quote:
I'm beginning to think the whole PowerBook line is passing into history, and the iBook will be updated to a faster G3, say 1.2GHz. Maybe there will be a G5 PowerBook late in 2004, but there's no way to make the existing hardware go any faster. Why update it?
Well they could at least add features to the smaller ones, make the 15" Al, increase graphics card, hard drive, ram capacity, make the screen better, add more ports(USB 2.0 comes to mind...) etc. the list goes on.
Well they could at least add features to the smaller ones, make the 15" Al, increase graphics card, hard drive, ram capacity, make the screen better, add more ports(USB 2.0 comes to mind...) etc. the list goes on.
Yeah, and they coulda done it months ago for cryin' out loud.
Honestly, I'd be very happy with the following (bear in mind, I'm not your typical bloodthirsty spec whore and wild-ass "put a G5 in everything in sight!" kinda guy):
- Give the 15" the appearance, AirPort antenna placement, hinge, keyboard, RAM and AirPort card access of the 12" and 17" model (a huge improvement right there, just in terms of scratch resistance, AirPort reception, overall sturdiness, keyboard solidity, etc.).
This is pretty much a given...
- Second, make all three models as close as possible in features (in short, stop crippling the 12" with lack of DVI and L3 cache and make it every bit as powerful and full-featured as the 15" and 17" models are).
That's it. Beyond that, we know the speeds are going to be 1GHz-plus, all graphics will be at least 32MB (Quartz Extreme friendly), etc. Those are all fine for me. I, for one, am not expecting - or demanding - some pie-in-the-sky product like a G5 PowerBook, 128MB graphics, 1600x??? on a 15" screen, 4x SuperDrive, etc. so I won't be in the group of people possibly slitting their wrists on the day the PowerBooks are announced and they don't measure up to the predictions of some here (ahem...).
I'll be happy as a clam (downright thrilled, in fact) to have the opportunity to own a laptop 200-400MHz more than my current 800MHz G4 iMac, 1MB L3 cache, 64MB graphics, AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, 60-80GB hard drive, etc. all in a sexy, sleek package that can go anywhere.
I know that puts me in the minority here, but at least I won't be completely distraught in the coming weeks. I worry for some of you...
Honestly, I'd be very happy with the following (bear in mind, I'm not your typical bloodthirsty spec whore and wild-ass "put a G5 in everything in sight!" kinda guy):
- Give the 15" the appearance, AirPort antenna placement, hinge, keyboard, RAM and AirPort card access of the 12" and 17" model (a huge improvement right there, just in terms of scratch resistance, AirPort reception, overall sturdiness, keyboard solidity, etc.).
This is pretty much a given...
- Second, make all three models as close as possible in features (in short, stop crippling the 12" with lack of DVI and L3 cache and make it every bit as powerful and full-featured as the 15" and 17" models are).
That's it. Beyond that, we know the speeds are going to be 1GHz-plus, all graphics will be at least 32MB (Quartz Extreme friendly), etc. Those are all fine for me. I, for one, am not expecting - or demanding - some pie-in-the-sky product like a G5 PowerBook, 128MB graphics, 1600x??? on a 15" screen, 4x SuperDrive, etc. so I won't be in the group of people possibly slitting their wrists on the day the PowerBooks are announced and they don't measure up to the predictions of some here (ahem...).
I'll be happy as a clam (downright thrilled, in fact) to have the opportunity to own a laptop 200-400MHz more than my current 800MHz G4 iMac, 1MB L3 cache, 64MB graphics, AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, 60-80GB hard drive, etc. all in a sexy, sleek package that can go anywhere.
I know that puts me in the minority here, but at least I won't be completely distraught in the coming weeks. I worry for some of you...
I agree. If something like this came out this week I'd buy it. But I'm sick of waiting!!! I just wish I didn't have to wait anymore. I bet they are gonna announce what you just described at Paris and then say that it's shipping next month, which in AppleSpeak means late November/December.
If the educational sales are that important to Apple, and given that Mot wasn't able to upgrade the processor in due time, what could be withholding Apple to release a full featured 15'' with G4 speeds unchanged?
When Apple switched to IBM they did it for their whole high-end product range (The world's fastest desktop computer, but not the world's fastest portable?; I think not). Apple is ready and they would like everyone to be filled with awe. So I propose everyone on every board pledges that he/she finds it unlikely, if not impossible, that a portable G5 will be happening any time soon ... 8)
"I for one think putting a G5 in a portable is a ridiculous idea and couldn't be pulled off by Apple even if they wanted to!"
Re-read what he wrote again, your eyesight would actually like it under those circumstances. Even at half that dot pitch.
I understand what he wrote, it's just that the GPU at that resolution would make the OS feel like heavy mollasses, with bad resising and everything.
(300 X ~12) (300 X ~9) = a lot more pixels than the current Cinema Display. I could be wrong in my math, but that's too much for a mobile GPU to process.
Well, the Paris Expo is only two weeks away (since the thing will actually occur at like 4 AM here on the east coast, maybe 13.5 days away). Regardless, it's going to be a long two weeks, I will tell you that.
Well, the Paris Expo is only two weeks away (since the thing will actually occur at like 4 AM here on the east coast, maybe 13.5 days away). Regardless, it's going to be a long two weeks, I will tell you that.
That's 2 weeks 2 long. And if all they announce is a G4 speed bump at an expo, it's gonna be pretty lame IMO. At this point, a G4 speed bump barely warrants a press release. The only reasons why they should announce it at an expo is if:
1) it's a G5
OR
2) it's a G4, but starts at 1.6 GHz (or at the very least starts out at 1.3 and maxes out at 1.6), has 512RAM and 64VRAM, the 12 inch is not crippled in any way (that includes lighted keyboard), has bluetooth and airport extreme built in (not just ready) AND prices remain the same.
OR
3) it has some killer new advancement like 7hour+ battery life (which probably isn't unfeasible because the new G4s are supposed to have lower power consumption. Plus, one of the main draws of Apple laptops has been the usable battery life in comparison with PC laptops, but Intel has pretty much caught up in that respect with the Centrino, so it would be great if Apple can manage to get ahead in that field again.)
If they just announce new G4 Powrbooks at 1 to 1.2 Ghz, make the 15 inch aluminum and airport extreme ready and nothing else, I hope the French start booing and throwing tomatoes and eggs! Because that would be beyond pathetic.
I wouldn't mind if the PowerBook was running a G4 as high as, say, 1.25 or 1.33 GHz, but an expo announcement would probably have one of those niceties mentioned such as extra battery life (an hour extra on battery? Yes please) or backlit keyboards on the whole line.
I don't see Apple putting in anything higher than that though. Apple has to compete against Centrino laptops, and they don't want to risk having less battery life than they do now.
Comments
Originally posted by alex_kac
IBM actually had the ability to do 1+ Ghz G3 processors for quite a bit longer than the G4 was able to do 1 Ghz.
Doubtful, at the very least. The G3 has quite a short pipeline (compared to a P4/PPC970), so it would be expected to scale rather slowly. Until very recently, the G3 was on a very limited bus (I do not know if this still is true), so its throughput would be abysmal.
The G3 "Gobi" actually missed the predicted timeframe for release quite some months.
The "G3 is held back by the G4" is a myth, imho - but it is one that keeps replicating for about two years now.
Originally posted by alex_kac
IBM actually had the ability to do 1+ Ghz G3 processors for quite a bit longer than the G4 was able to do 1 Ghz.
This is a myth. The fact is that had IBM met their own expectations for the G3 "Sahara," the iBook would currently be running at 1GHz. It fell short. The G3s Apple uses have consistently been the fastest IBM can make.
There's no magic involved here. The G4 has a longer pipeline than the G3; otherwise, absent AltiVec, the two CPUs are quite similar. But because of the pipeline length, the G4 should clock higher. And so it does.
Neither architecture is designed to scale rapidly MHz-wise.
The fact that PowerBooks haven't been updated in up to 10 months means that either Apple has been secretly working on one with a low-end G5 processor, or more likely, Motorola can't get them the faster G4s Apple needs to make a revision. There is a contigent of people that think Apple is poised to update the PowerBooks to a G5 at Paris. As much I would like to see that happen, I don't think it's going to, and there are plenty of other people here who share my pessimism on that front.
The point that has been underlying all the discussion on new PowerBooks is that Apple would be better off doing something, than nothing. Nothing is all they have had to show thus far, and they better get the gravy train back on track.
While I'm thinking about it, can you imagine what might happen if Apple doesn't even have PowerBooks to announce by the Apple Expo keynote? Jobs called 2003 the year of the notebook, and I don't think that he enjoys having his words undermined by suppliers (i.e. Motorola) and/or design problems.
In answer to this thread's question: yes, tomorrow.
How do you know? or are you just kidding?
I'm beginning to think the whole PowerBook line is passing into history, and the iBook will be updated to a faster G3, say 1.2GHz. Maybe there will be a G5 PowerBook late in 2004, but there's no way to make the existing hardware go any faster. Why update it?
Well they could at least add features to the smaller ones, make the 15" Al, increase graphics card, hard drive, ram capacity, make the screen better, add more ports(USB 2.0 comes to mind...) etc. the list goes on.
Originally posted by pscates
In answer to this thread's question: yes, tomorrow.
Whoa, know something?
I have said it really could be any day know, and tomorrow seems like it's as good a day as any of them.
Originally posted by noodlemcfoodle
Well they could at least add features to the smaller ones, make the 15" Al, increase graphics card, hard drive, ram capacity, make the screen better, add more ports(USB 2.0 comes to mind...) etc. the list goes on.
Yeah, and they coulda done it months ago for cryin' out loud.
- Give the 15" the appearance, AirPort antenna placement, hinge, keyboard, RAM and AirPort card access of the 12" and 17" model (a huge improvement right there, just in terms of scratch resistance, AirPort reception, overall sturdiness, keyboard solidity, etc.).
This is pretty much a given...
- Second, make all three models as close as possible in features (in short, stop crippling the 12" with lack of DVI and L3 cache and make it every bit as powerful and full-featured as the 15" and 17" models are).
That's it. Beyond that, we know the speeds are going to be 1GHz-plus, all graphics will be at least 32MB (Quartz Extreme friendly), etc. Those are all fine for me. I, for one, am not expecting - or demanding - some pie-in-the-sky product like a G5 PowerBook, 128MB graphics, 1600x??? on a 15" screen, 4x SuperDrive, etc. so I won't be in the group of people possibly slitting their wrists on the day the PowerBooks are announced and they don't measure up to the predictions of some here (ahem...).
I'll be happy as a clam (downright thrilled, in fact) to have the opportunity to own a laptop 200-400MHz more than my current 800MHz G4 iMac, 1MB L3 cache, 64MB graphics, AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, 60-80GB hard drive, etc. all in a sexy, sleek package that can go anywhere.
I know that puts me in the minority here, but at least I won't be completely distraught in the coming weeks. I worry for some of you...
Originally posted by pscates
Honestly, I'd be very happy with the following (bear in mind, I'm not your typical bloodthirsty spec whore and wild-ass "put a G5 in everything in sight!" kinda guy):
- Give the 15" the appearance, AirPort antenna placement, hinge, keyboard, RAM and AirPort card access of the 12" and 17" model (a huge improvement right there, just in terms of scratch resistance, AirPort reception, overall sturdiness, keyboard solidity, etc.).
This is pretty much a given...
- Second, make all three models as close as possible in features (in short, stop crippling the 12" with lack of DVI and L3 cache and make it every bit as powerful and full-featured as the 15" and 17" models are).
That's it. Beyond that, we know the speeds are going to be 1GHz-plus, all graphics will be at least 32MB (Quartz Extreme friendly), etc. Those are all fine for me. I, for one, am not expecting - or demanding - some pie-in-the-sky product like a G5 PowerBook, 128MB graphics, 1600x??? on a 15" screen, 4x SuperDrive, etc. so I won't be in the group of people possibly slitting their wrists on the day the PowerBooks are announced and they don't measure up to the predictions of some here (ahem...).
I'll be happy as a clam (downright thrilled, in fact) to have the opportunity to own a laptop 200-400MHz more than my current 800MHz G4 iMac, 1MB L3 cache, 64MB graphics, AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, 60-80GB hard drive, etc. all in a sexy, sleek package that can go anywhere.
I know that puts me in the minority here, but at least I won't be completely distraught in the coming weeks. I worry for some of you...
I agree. If something like this came out this week I'd buy it. But I'm sick of waiting!!! I just wish I didn't have to wait anymore. I bet they are gonna announce what you just described at Paris and then say that it's shipping next month, which in AppleSpeak means late November/December.
sheesh id be happy with a 1.1ghz 15" in Aluminium
i'm sick of waiting also, almost bought a 17" today but i'll just keep on waiting grrrrrrr
When Apple switched to IBM they did it for their whole high-end product range (The world's fastest desktop computer, but not the world's fastest portable?; I think not). Apple is ready and they would like everyone to be filled with awe. So I propose everyone on every board pledges that he/she finds it unlikely, if not impossible, that a portable G5 will be happening any time soon ... 8)
"I for one think putting a G5 in a portable is a ridiculous idea and couldn't be pulled off by Apple even if they wanted to!"
Originally posted by AirSluf
Re-read what he wrote again, your eyesight would actually like it under those circumstances. Even at half that dot pitch.
I understand what he wrote, it's just that the GPU at that resolution would make the OS feel like heavy mollasses, with bad resising and everything.
(300 X ~12) (300 X ~9) = a lot more pixels than the current Cinema Display. I could be wrong in my math, but that's too much for a mobile GPU to process.
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Well, the Paris Expo is only two weeks away (since the thing will actually occur at like 4 AM here on the east coast, maybe 13.5 days away). Regardless, it's going to be a long two weeks, I will tell you that.
That's 2 weeks 2 long. And if all they announce is a G4 speed bump at an expo, it's gonna be pretty lame IMO. At this point, a G4 speed bump barely warrants a press release. The only reasons why they should announce it at an expo is if:
1) it's a G5
OR
2) it's a G4, but starts at 1.6 GHz (or at the very least starts out at 1.3 and maxes out at 1.6), has 512RAM and 64VRAM, the 12 inch is not crippled in any way (that includes lighted keyboard), has bluetooth and airport extreme built in (not just ready) AND prices remain the same.
OR
3) it has some killer new advancement like 7hour+ battery life (which probably isn't unfeasible because the new G4s are supposed to have lower power consumption. Plus, one of the main draws of Apple laptops has been the usable battery life in comparison with PC laptops, but Intel has pretty much caught up in that respect with the Centrino, so it would be great if Apple can manage to get ahead in that field again.)
If they just announce new G4 Powrbooks at 1 to 1.2 Ghz, make the 15 inch aluminum and airport extreme ready and nothing else, I hope the French start booing and throwing tomatoes and eggs! Because that would be beyond pathetic.
I don't see Apple putting in anything higher than that though. Apple has to compete against Centrino laptops, and they don't want to risk having less battery life than they do now.