Could someone please explain to a confused Brit...
....what the term 'anti-American' actually means? The Blue Meanie was recently reading in a film magazine (sorry, lost sauce...or should that be source? 
) about a press conference for the film "Buffalo Soldiers". Apparently an over-excited woman in the audience jerked to her feet, threw a glass of water at ole Wakeen Phoenix and the director, and screamed hysterically that they were "anti-American"....
There is no equivalent of this concept in British English....
The term "all-American is also untranslatable!
) about a press conference for the film "Buffalo Soldiers". Apparently an over-excited woman in the audience jerked to her feet, threw a glass of water at ole Wakeen Phoenix and the director, and screamed hysterically that they were "anti-American".... There is no equivalent of this concept in British English....The term "all-American is also untranslatable!
Comments
Does the article mention Scott?
...." What ( does ) the term " anti-American " actually mean? .. There is no equivalent of this concept in British English....( & ) The term "all-American " is also untranslatable!
" Anti-American "
Despite extensive Googling, I could not find an original first use of the phrase..But I suspect it came about in the time of McCarthyism..to describe those who were accused of being communists or allied sympathisers.
" All-American "
Appears to have first been used in american sports. Basketball, Baseball & Grid-iron all lay claim to this phrase...It means 100%
But try to get your head around
" The whole nine yards "
The Conservatives sometimes are right about this, many people simply hate America because of its image and the force and power of its myth (a myth of force and power and richness and wealth etc)
Many people would be lost politically and, dare I say it, metaphysically (their lives would have no meaning) if they didn't have America to bitch and moan about . . . if they didn't have America to weave plots and conspiracies about
unfortunately, this detracts from analysis of the real awful conspiracies and terrible foriegn policy ideas that are sometimes (very often recently) perpetrated by the US, and, gives reason for the more reactionary to write off anything critical as simply 'anti-American'
How's that for translation?
Anti-American means against America -- the (for lack of a better word) concept of the nation, its people, its culture, its rule of law, its existence. Gets thrown around a lot though, a knee jerk reaction most times, though there are obviously real cases of my definition of the term too. I wouldn't put criticism of american laws, its policies, its administrations, etc. in the category of anti-American, at least if it's specifically focused o those things. Anti-American would mean being critical of those things simply because they come out of America, not for their merits or lack thereof. It's the difference between saying that someone hates a movie because it has Americans in it or an American made it, or hating a movie because it somehow represents (and this is tricky) American culture or ideals, and hating a movie that, uh, happens to be made by or stars Americans, or that represents particular Americans, acts by particular Americans, etc.
Apparently, the woman felt that the movie was meant to reflect on America as a whole, seeing the whole place and people in a negative light, not just the specific events or people portrayed in the film. If it does mean to portray the US, its culture, its Constitution, and/or Americans as a whole as evil or something, it would seem fair to characterize the movie as anti-American. If it has a critical message about the military, people in government, certain events or whatever, that would seem like overstatement. Depends on what the intent was. Are the events of the movie intended to dismiss or condemn America(ns), is it making a point that reaches beyond American culture (a morality play r something), does it simple tell a story that happened with Americans or in America, does it serve as a critique or warning of what is wrong with America or Americans without dismissing American culture, the people or the nation, etc., etc. ?? Gets kind of hairy, open to interpretation obviously without the authors explicitly saying what their point is. I would say of the thing I just mentioned, only the first case would qualify as anti-American in attitude.
All-American to me either means the typical image of American culture, or it means the ideal image of American culture/values. For example, the former case might be the stereotypical All-American male: a white, middle-class, overweight, heterosexual, TV-zombie who owns a handgun, drives an SUV, lives in a single family house with a white picket fence in his home suburb along with his dog, his 2 1/2 kids (whom he watches at their soccer games on Saturday), and his second wife, and who has a dull job behind a desk, plus watches football and/or NASCAR on Sunday. Another example would be a McDonalds cheeseburger.
In the latter case, an example might be someone like Benjamin Franklin or Abraham Lincoln, as people who through history and myth represent what qualities or ideals Americans admire or associate with their culture. In that sense, an all-American cheeseburger is a damn good cheeseburger. Mmmmm?
Originally posted by BuonRotto
I realize this is all quite facetious baiting
Only semi-facetious, BuonRotto. That's a very considered response. What do you, as an all-American bulletin-board poster, think about the fact that the terms "all-British" and "anti-British" don't exist then?
Originally posted by The Blue Meanie
Only semi-facetious, BuonRotto. That's a very considered response. What do you, as an all-American bulletin-board poster, think about the fact that the terms "all-British" and "anti-British" don't exist then?
The US constumatution (as shrub would say).
I think it stems from there.
I think there would be few people that would disagree that there's possibly no finer enshrinement of liberty and happiness then the US constitution. It's just a wonderful document, and defines America; defines what American values should be. As a way of imagining yourself (first step to being something) it's so powerful.
You can't imagine America without imagining these things, and to imply something that infringes these things is 'anti-American' and is felt viscerally, profoundly.
Of course, the US was built by slave labour, just after the genocide of the native Americans. There was still slave labour when the document was written, so it shows that you can be ambiguous about how you treat it (not an anti-US rant, a historical fact you can ignore at your peril).
I believe this ability to kind of hold two incredible and polar opposite realities in your head is what underpins 'US exceptionalism' ... the view, as portrayed by some on these boards, that what went on in Chile and Cambodia etc. etc. etc. is somehow OK, because it had uh something to do with keeping US liberty alive. They were appaling actions that denied innocent people both life and liberty, done in the name of America -- that is to say, American values.
The absolute heart-felt (and totally wrong) idea that America is in a jim-dandy position to go around trumpeting democracy and freedom, and sorting the rest of the planet out, because America is founded on one of the most beautiful and profound set of ideals ever committed to paper, and felt at the heart of many Americans. But those ideals stop at the border and don't apply to non-Americans it seems. This latter point will be denied by the conservatives -- exactly my point. You may not challenge US policy without being Anti-American.
So you have this conflation: sometimes if you challenge a conservative yank about the destructive side of the US you are 'anti-American' ... they feel it profoundly.
My 2p.
Originally posted by The Blue Meanie
Only semi-facetious, BuonRotto. That's a very considered response. What do you, as an all-American bulletin-board poster, think about the fact that the terms "all-British" and "anti-British" don't exist then?
Well, there should be!
refers to in WW2, american pilots in dogfights would give the enemy their whole nine yards, or all of their 27 feet of ammunition, their plane could hold.
anti-american,
its a feeling we as americans get when we are judged incorrectly, heh. I know your jealous, and you can say we were founded on slavery and taking away land from indians, but you cannot deny that all of europe was founded on the same principles, milennia after milennia, generations over and over. So the term is inherently biased, and stupid.
Anti-American
(adj)
1. Harboring ill will or negative reactions to anything that is widely believed to be supported by the American Public. Examples include: "Survival of the richest", "Bomb first, ask questions later", and privatized medicine.
(n)
2. Anyone who has a problem with Israel and its policies.
Un-American
(adj)
1. Sympathizing with cultural and/or political systems which are at odds with their American counterparts. Examples include: Socialism, Wahabism, Communism, and France.
2. Since September 2001, anyone who declares the foreign policies of George W. Bush to be inept or otherwise not good for the country.
See also: Dixie Chics
All-American
(n)
1. Any collegiate athlete who excels at their sport and at the same time manages to earn high marks in their criminology, basket-weaving and home economics courses.
2. In American mythology, a wholesome young man or woman who is extremely attractive, works hard, plays hard, gives to charity, never gets angry, pays their taxes early and has a balanced, fiber-rich diet.
Originally posted by kraig911
anti-american,
its a feeling we as americans get when we are judged incorrectly, heh. I know your jealous, and you can say we were founded on slavery and taking away land from indians, but you cannot deny that all of europe was founded on the same principles, milennia after milennia, generations over and over. So the term is inherently biased, and stupid.
Ain't nooooo Indians in Europe, kraig. Not the last time I checked, anyway.
The term 'anti-American' may well be biased, but who uses it? Bush-voting Republicans for the most part, as far as I can see.
Originally posted by Moogs
Moogs' Abridged AI Definitions:
Anti-American
(adj)
1. Harboring ill will or negative reactions to anything that is widely believed to be supported by the American Public. Examples include: "Survival of the richest", "Bomb first, ask questions later", and privatized medicine.
(n)
2. Anyone who has a problem with Israel and its policies.
Un-American
(adj)
1. Sympathizing with cultural and/or political systems which are at odds with their American counterparts. Examples include: Socialism, Wahabism, Communism, and France.
2. Since September 2001, anyone who declares the foreign policies of George W. Bush to be inept or otherwise not good for the country.
See also: Dixie Chics
All-American
(n)
1. Any collegiate athlete who excels at their sport and at the same time manages to earn high marks in their criminology, basket-weaving and home economics courses.
2. In American mythology, a wholesome young man or woman who is extremely attractive, works hard, plays hard, gives to charity, never gets angry, pays their taxes early and has a balanced, fiber-rich diet.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Well, there should be!
There's some truth in that, Buonrotto, but let's not forget we're in the 21st century now. Nobody spends much time thinking about Queen Victoria any more
Originally posted by The Blue Meanie
[ . . . ] think about the fact that the terms "all-British" and "anti-British" don't exist then?
I believe that there probably was a term for Anti-british sentiments (if I had research skills, I'd find it) back in the days when "the sun never set . . .etc" I'm sure there was a very wide spread anti-colonial attitude that was directed at Brits in particular . . . and sometimes without merit and sometimes with . .
and, the flip-side: I'm sure there was British pride, as one poster said 'stiff upper . . .old man' . . and all that . . . "yaarrr! cheeerio let's teach them civilizaaayshun . . yaarr . . yaarrr"
Originally posted by The Blue Meanie
There's some truth in that, Buonrotto, but let's not forget we're in the 21st century now. Nobody spends much time thinking about Queen Victoria any more
I was just throwing bad stereotypes out there as jest.
Originally posted by The Blue Meanie
Ain't nooooo Indians in Europe, kraig. Not the last time I checked, anyway.
The term 'anti-American' may well be biased, but who uses it? Bush-voting Republicans for the most part, as far as I can see.
it must be nice to live in your own little world over there
also what continent did the most horrendous atrocities against humanity originate? many times over I might ask? Oh and for that matter commercial slavery as well? east of new york if I'm not mistaken
Originally posted by Eugene
He'll tell you any American pop-culture phenomenon is rubbish.
How many can you name that aren't?
Originally posted by Moogs
Moogs' Abridged AI Definitions:
Anti-American
(adj)
1. Harboring ill will or negative reactions to anything that is widely believed to be supported by the American Public. Examples include: "Survival of the richest", "Bomb first, ask questions later", and privatized medicine.
(n)
2. Anyone who has a problem with Israel and its policies.
Un-American
(adj)
1. Sympathizing with cultural and/or political systems which are at odds with their American counterparts. Examples include: Socialism, Wahabism, Communism, and France.
2. Since September 2001, anyone who declares the foreign policies of George W. Bush to be inept or otherwise not good for the country.
See also: Dixie Chics
All-American
(n)
1. Any collegiate athlete who excels at their sport and at the same time manages to earn high marks in their criminology, basket-weaving and home economics courses.
2. In American mythology, a wholesome young man or woman who is extremely attractive, works hard, plays hard, gives to charity, never gets angry, pays their taxes early and has a balanced, fiber-rich diet.
There you have it, blue meanie.