There's nothing wrong with Europe. It's the ?uro currency that's fundamentally wrong
There is no obligation for a countrie to participate to the Euro. I don't see what's fundamentally wrong with it. If Sweden do not want to participate to the euro : it's her problems.
I do not count anymore in Francs, and it do not kill me. I see advantages, it's more easy for me to convert in dollars, and when i go to foreign countrie who share euro, life is more simple.
For example i went to courmayer in august, and i have no problems to buy things in euro.
Yeah, I don't understand - these characters that complain about the Euro and yet they're the ones getting shafted up the khyber by the banks.
Some friends stayed with us in Paris recently from London and complained when they ended up paying 100 Euros in commission charges over the length of their 3 week trip - of course they complained about the Euro too and how it was great the UK wasn't in it blah, blah.....
And of course they complained that they couldn't do much business in Europe since the Euro. Didn't seem to wonder why that might be. I guess some people have an unhealthy attachment their currency.....
I just laugh now - we travel to Florence, Barcelona and Germany three or four times a year - no change of money or outageous commision. I don't even know the rate now - 2/3 pc ?
What are your thoughts over the death of your foreign minister? Was she killed because she was pro-euro?
Fellows
Good question Fship, but what is really sad with this death, is it's also the death of a way of making politic.
At the contrary of most of europeans countries where minister are protected by body-guards, swedish ministers had no protections, and where in direct contact with the population which is great.
I wonder if this death, will not oblige also the swedish ministers to have body guards ?
Good question Fship, but what is really sad with this death, is it's also the death of a way of making politic.
At the contrary of most of europeans countries where minister are protected by body-guards, swedish ministers had no protections, and where in direct contact with the population which is great.
I wonder if this death, will not oblige also the swedish ministers to have body guards ?
I have a theory Powerdoc - a lot of the countries most resistant to the Euro are also the most expensive in Europe.
If there was a parity the citizens of non Euro countries would see how much cheaper things are elsewhere. Londoners might start asking why they have to pay 12 Euros for the same bottle of wine that cost 3 in France for example....
They might see that they are getting more ripped off than the rest of us and we can't have that
Just few things for you to consider '?uro followers':
1) How many percent have prices gone up since the launch of the Euro? I know in Italy and Greece and Finland we're talking something like 15%. These 2 or 3% commission fees is nothing when you look at the whole picture.
2) What can a government do in case there comes a temporary economical recession in one country in ?uroland? If the economical situation in the other countries remains strong? The answer is nothing. The consequences could be catastrophical to say the least
If the ?uro is going to work in the long run it's dependant on labour mobility between the countries. This remains difficult because of language as well as cultural barriers.
But it's just typical for EU's respect for democracy that even the Swedes say no today, we can be sure there will be referendum again in few years time. Until Brussels has got it's will, we'll be voting time and time again. When ever is there a re-election on an EU trade when people have said yes the first time around. Never
J2) What can a government do in case there comes a temporary economical recession in one country in ?uroland? If the economical situation in the other countries remain strong? The answer is nothing. The consequences could be catastrophical to say the least
Ah yes, the myth that without the ability to set interest rates a country can do nothing about recession.
Ah yes, the myth that without the ability to set interest rates a country can do nothing about recession.
Why do you say the answer is nothing?
I'm not talking interest rates here. I'm talking about the value of the currency the country has. If the currency doesn't reflect the countries economical situation we ARE in serious problems. But maybe I shouldn't worry too much. Tax payers in the other countries will pay the bill
I don't agree with you, kelib. I see the Euro as a gift from heaven. Some prices have gone up, but many have gone down as well (especially since the dollar and the pound are having a hard time keeping up with the Euro). I really wonder how much prices have gone up in those other countries, that think they are better off on their own.
For one thing, it provides for greater unity, although that'll always be subjective.
Your argument, what with the crisis in one member state, is exactly the reason the EU got started (at least, as far as I can tell): to create more economical stability in that once war-ridden region of the world. One member may have a crisis, yet there'll always be plenty of others pushing the bandwagon. What you say sounds pretty much like nationalism and egotism. And that's another reason I just cannot go for that.
Just few things for you to consider '?uro followers':
...
2) What can a government do in case there comes a temporary economical recession in one country in ?uroland? If the economical situation in the other countries remains strong? The answer is nothing. The consequences could be catastrophical to say the least
...
IMO that's the best reason to reject the Euro. You think France and Germany give a rats ass if the little country go under?
I don't agree with you, kelib. I see the Euro as a gift from heaven. Some prices have gone up, but many have gone down as well (especially since the dollar and the pound are having a hard time keeping up with the Euro). I really wonder how much prices have gone up in those other countries, that think they are better off on their own.
For one thing, it provides for greater unity, although that'll always be subjective.
Your argument, what with the crisis in one member state, is exactly the reason the EU got started (at least, as far as I can tell): to create more economical stability in that once war-ridden region of the world. One member may have a crisis, yet there'll always be plenty of others pushing the bandwagon. What you say sounds pretty much like nationalism and egotism. And that's another reason I just cannot go for that.
First off, the prices that have gone down because of low dollar would have gone down anyway. The dollar is low because the economical situation in the US. This has nothing to do with the ?uro.
I'm not being nationalistic at all and egotism is out off the question as far as I'm concerned. But in the long run I believe it's healthier for everyone concerned if each country is responsible for it's own economics.
The reason I'm fundamentally against the ?uropean Union as a whole is that it takes the decision making further away from the people those decisions are meant to serve. The simple fact that a politician has to face TV cameras in his own country whenever he makes (or does not make) a decision makes him think twice before making silly decisions or he decides not to act in any given case. This doesn't happen when vital decisions are made 1000's of KM away from home soil (in Brussels).
There are loads of benefits from the ?U obviously. I just believe those benefits could be reached without this Mega-Monster the ?U has become. ?U was meant to overtake 100's of institutions in each of the member's state. This has not happened. The institutions are still alive and well. They have just slightly altered their role so the financial benefit isn't there at all.
Let's open all boarders inside Europe, let's tear down the all restrictions of free trade. We can all agree on these principles. But we don't need EU for doing this.
I love you Sweden
Comments
Originally posted by kelib
Thank you Sweden for declining the Euro. Last time it was Denmark, now the Swedish are doing their bit to stop this Euro monster
What's wrong with Europe?
I'm sad about this.
Originally posted by Harald
What's wrong with Europe?
I'm sad about this.
There's nothing wrong with Europe. It's the ?uro currency that's fundamentally wrong
Originally posted by kelib
There's nothing wrong with Europe. It's the ?uro currency that's fundamentally wrong
There is no obligation for a countrie to participate to the Euro. I don't see what's fundamentally wrong with it. If Sweden do not want to participate to the euro : it's her problems.
I do not count anymore in Francs, and it do not kill me. I see advantages, it's more easy for me to convert in dollars, and when i go to foreign countrie who share euro, life is more simple.
For example i went to courmayer in august, and i have no problems to buy things in euro.
Originally posted by segovius
Yeah, I don't understand - these characters that complain about the Euro and yet they're the ones getting shafted up the khyber by the banks.
Some friends stayed with us in Paris recently from London and complained when they ended up paying 100 Euros in commission charges over the length of their 3 week trip - of course they complained about the Euro too and how it was great the UK wasn't in it blah, blah.....
And of course they complained that they couldn't do much business in Europe since the Euro. Didn't seem to wonder why that might be. I guess some people have an unhealthy attachment their currency.....
I just laugh now - we travel to Florence, Barcelona and Germany three or four times a year - no change of money or outageous commision. I don't even know the rate now - 2/3 pc ?
I agree at 100 % with your post.
Originally posted by kelib
Thank you Sweden for declining the Euro. Last time it was Denmark, now the Swedish are doing their bit to stop this Euro monster
What are your thoughts over the death of the Sweden foreign minister? Was she killed because she was pro-euro?
Fellows
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
What are your thoughts over the death of your foreign minister? Was she killed because she was pro-euro?
Fellows
Good question Fship, but what is really sad with this death, is it's also the death of a way of making politic.
At the contrary of most of europeans countries where minister are protected by body-guards, swedish ministers had no protections, and where in direct contact with the population which is great.
I wonder if this death, will not oblige also the swedish ministers to have body guards ?
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Good question Fship, but what is really sad with this death, is it's also the death of a way of making politic.
At the contrary of most of europeans countries where minister are protected by body-guards, swedish ministers had no protections, and where in direct contact with the population which is great.
I wonder if this death, will not oblige also the swedish ministers to have body guards ?
Very sad.
Fellows
Originally posted by segovius
I have a theory Powerdoc - a lot of the countries most resistant to the Euro are also the most expensive in Europe.
If there was a parity the citizens of non Euro countries would see how much cheaper things are elsewhere. Londoners might start asking why they have to pay 12 Euros for the same bottle of wine that cost 3 in France for example....
They might see that they are getting more ripped off than the rest of us and we can't have that
Yes direct comparison is dangerous ...
1) How many percent have prices gone up since the launch of the Euro? I know in Italy and Greece and Finland we're talking something like 15%. These 2 or 3% commission fees is nothing when you look at the whole picture.
2) What can a government do in case there comes a temporary economical recession in one country in ?uroland? If the economical situation in the other countries remains strong? The answer is nothing. The consequences could be catastrophical to say the least
If the ?uro is going to work in the long run it's dependant on labour mobility between the countries. This remains difficult because of language as well as cultural barriers.
But it's just typical for EU's respect for democracy that even the Swedes say no today, we can be sure there will be referendum again in few years time. Until Brussels has got it's will, we'll be voting time and time again. When ever is there a re-election on an EU trade when people have said yes the first time around. Never
Yes: 41,6%
No: 56,3%
Blanc votes: 2,1%
Originally posted by kelib
J2) What can a government do in case there comes a temporary economical recession in one country in ?uroland? If the economical situation in the other countries remain strong? The answer is nothing. The consequences could be catastrophical to say the least
Ah yes, the myth that without the ability to set interest rates a country can do nothing about recession.
Why do you say the answer is nothing?
Originally posted by Harald
Ah yes, the myth that without the ability to set interest rates a country can do nothing about recession.
Why do you say the answer is nothing?
I'm not talking interest rates here. I'm talking about the value of the currency the country has. If the currency doesn't reflect the countries economical situation we ARE in serious problems. But maybe I shouldn't worry too much. Tax payers in the other countries will pay the bill
For one thing, it provides for greater unity, although that'll always be subjective.
Your argument, what with the crisis in one member state, is exactly the reason the EU got started (at least, as far as I can tell): to create more economical stability in that once war-ridden region of the world. One member may have a crisis, yet there'll always be plenty of others pushing the bandwagon. What you say sounds pretty much like nationalism and egotism. And that's another reason I just cannot go for that.
The price increases many people mention are not only slightly exagerated, they are a temporary phenomenon.
Let's not forget that it is not the EU commision who determine retail prices, but companies and merchants, or supply and demand, if you like...
It's like all these people whining about traffic jams when they're stuck in one, conveniently forgetting that they are also a part of the problem.
The Euro is one of the indispensable building blocks of a unified and strong Europe. Something everyone will benifit from on the long run, IMHO
Originally posted by der Kopf
I really wonder how much prices have gone up in those other countries, that think they are better off on their own.
I know in Italy a lot of prices went 1000 to 1. So, a 7,000 lira pizza went to 7 Euros. In US dollars, that's going from roughly $3.50 USD to $7 USD.
the problem is not the currency.
The problem with the EU is that nobody is saying:
"The EU is only going to get this big."
Turkey is trying to get into the EU, ok fine but why not Egypt, Russia, Afghanistan, Marokko, China,...
I think you got my point.
Originally posted by bka77
Hi,
the problem is not the currency.
The problem with the EU is that nobody is saying:
"The EU is only going to get this big."
Turkey is trying to get into the EU, ok fine but why not Egypt, Russia, Afghanistan, Marokko, China,...
I think you got my point.
No. Can't say I do get your point.
The harm of a big Europe is ... ?
I just don't see a plan.
No politican has ever given a definition of Europe.
I would like to know the limiting factor.
Originally posted by kelib
Just few things for you to consider '?uro followers':
...
2) What can a government do in case there comes a temporary economical recession in one country in ?uroland? If the economical situation in the other countries remains strong? The answer is nothing. The consequences could be catastrophical to say the least
...
IMO that's the best reason to reject the Euro. You think France and Germany give a rats ass if the little country go under?
Originally posted by der Kopf
I don't agree with you, kelib. I see the Euro as a gift from heaven. Some prices have gone up, but many have gone down as well (especially since the dollar and the pound are having a hard time keeping up with the Euro). I really wonder how much prices have gone up in those other countries, that think they are better off on their own.
For one thing, it provides for greater unity, although that'll always be subjective.
Your argument, what with the crisis in one member state, is exactly the reason the EU got started (at least, as far as I can tell): to create more economical stability in that once war-ridden region of the world. One member may have a crisis, yet there'll always be plenty of others pushing the bandwagon. What you say sounds pretty much like nationalism and egotism. And that's another reason I just cannot go for that.
First off, the prices that have gone down because of low dollar would have gone down anyway. The dollar is low because the economical situation in the US. This has nothing to do with the ?uro.
I'm not being nationalistic at all and egotism is out off the question as far as I'm concerned. But in the long run I believe it's healthier for everyone concerned if each country is responsible for it's own economics.
The reason I'm fundamentally against the ?uropean Union as a whole is that it takes the decision making further away from the people those decisions are meant to serve. The simple fact that a politician has to face TV cameras in his own country whenever he makes (or does not make) a decision makes him think twice before making silly decisions or he decides not to act in any given case. This doesn't happen when vital decisions are made 1000's of KM away from home soil (in Brussels).
There are loads of benefits from the ?U obviously. I just believe those benefits could be reached without this Mega-Monster the ?U has become. ?U was meant to overtake 100's of institutions in each of the member's state. This has not happened. The institutions are still alive and well. They have just slightly altered their role so the financial benefit isn't there at all.
Let's open all boarders inside Europe, let's tear down the all restrictions of free trade. We can all agree on these principles. But we don't need EU for doing this.