Oh look. America's getting rich out of Iraq.

hassan i sabbah

Well who'd've thunk it?



I am Link. Quake before me.



Iraq may not yet be grown up enough yet to formulate a foreign policy of its own, but before domestic elections fought on issues of policy, Iraq sells all its nationalised industries, with the exception of the oil industry.



Congratulations Iraq. And congratulations American industrial giants. And a mighty big MOTHERFECK YOU to the naked ****ing greed of the people who're selling the assets of the Iraqi people without giving them a chance to decide what's in their own best interests.



Disgust.



I mean, discuss.

hassan i sabbah

According to the BBC, this is "a surprise decision." Of course it is. With the prospect of UN members playing a role in cleaning up the godawful mess America and Britain have made, this has to be done now. It seems that the US is very unwilling to share any of the spoils with Britain, for goodness' sake, so the prospect of sharing any with the (oh god no it's too awful) French, or Canada, say, or anyone else, is too, too galling.



And it categorically must be done before a general election because then Iraqis might elect socialists, or decide that they want to sell citizen's bonds to their own people. But no. It's done now. The decision has been made, to describe it charitably, by a body whose members were chosen in Washington.

bunge

There's no PROOF the U.S. will gain anything from this...I mean, what if no U.S. companies buy any of the industries? What if no U.S. banks make the loans to make the purchases? You need PROOF!

moogs

I agree this has the potential to get very ugly, but I'm a little lost how you jump to the conclusion that only American companies will be able to buy out the existing markets / industry there. Could not France or Holland or Russia or Japan (to name a few examples) make a bid to buy an Iraqi company or win a big contract?



I guess I don't quite follow how the US could end up with all the spoils to the exclusion of everyone else. Particularly if all these sales are going to be made in the public eye, which they almost assuredly will be. Unless I'm not understand the process described by your article. Sort of a mile-high piece anyway.



Can you elaborate a bit?

randycat99

I say, more power to'em. Why does anybody do anything worthwhile- to make money. Hopefully some good gets done along with it. It's a pragmatic view, but a necessary one (IMO) for any good to come out of it, as opposed to just letting them figure it out for themselves. Maybe this is just to get the wheels running with a legitimate business model that they will then be able to take example from and learn by? Do the Iraqis really know what to do, if suddenly left to their own? My guess is they would rapidly degenerate into dog-eat-dog/war lord motivated/vulnerable self-interests, if left to their own. Control, control, control, until they can demonstrate that they can do so on their own and make the best choices which won't leave them vulnerable to those who would seize power at the nearest opportunity. Yes, there will be any number of wisecracks that it is actually the US that is doing the seizing at this very juncture. My only answer is that they could do worse- a lot worse...effectively throwing away all that has been accomplished so far.

colanderofdeath

You need to substitute "American Multinational Corporations" or some similar shit for "America" in your thread title. After all, America could be construed to include the taxpayer portion of our country and given that we are up into the 100,000,000,000+ range for expenditures for this war, it seems that America as a whole aint makin a penny off of Iraq. But I'm sure some corporations are.

randycat99

This is a "dirty, dirty job". I don't think "trickle down" is such a pressing factor so much as "get the job done" (and done right, hopefully).

buonrotto

"Oh look. America's getting rich out of Iraq."



Then how come I'm not seeing any of that money?!?!

randycat99

Let's tone down the rhetoric, shall we? Rehashing old arguments upon every opportunity to vent is just going to throw this topic off focus (as is usual). I think we all have a pretty good idea of who approves/disapproves of Operation Iraq, so frantic bleeding heart passages are pretty superfluous at this point (though unarguably dramatic and even comforting to some). The "job" wrt this topic is to jumpstart the business engine of Iraq. That would seem to be a vital component of a national operational infrastructure, IMO.

groverat

Hassan:

Quote:

Of course it is. With the prospect of UN members playing a role in cleaning up the godawful mess America and Britain have made, this has to be done now.

Stop, take a few steps back. And explain to me what you mean by this. Because as it reads you seem to be ignoring about 12 years of history as if they were merely incidental.

bunge

Iraq rebuilt itself after the first Gulf War. They don't need our companies to rebuild them. They definitely don't need our companies to buy them out.



If we're forcing them to sell, why not sell their own companies to Iraqis only? And then a grace period of many years until they go on the open market?

groverat

bunge:

Quote:

Iraq rebuilt itself after the first Gulf War.

HURRY HURRY HURRY! Be the first in line to see history being rewritten! Wholesale prices!



Care to give me a rundown on the State of the Iraqi Populace pre&post-OperationIraqiLiberation?



Pre-war: Happyfun Sparkletown

Post-war: Rubbleville Babymilkfactory

hassan i sabbah

Quote:

Originally posted by groverat

Hassan:



Stop, take a few steps back. And explain to me what you mean by this. Because as it reads you seem to be ignoring about 12 years of history as if they were merely incidental.

It wasn't the UN that invaded Iraq expecting the army to form an orderly queue to surrender and to have tanks showered in flowers by grateful Iraqi citizens. That was us, and we did it without any serious plan of what to day after the collapse of the regime, and we've made a godawful mess of it.



But that's not the point. We've been through this sort of thing a dozen times. We're talking here about the privitisation of the services of an entire nation without consulting the people who actually own them, the citizens.



The point isn't whether or not the Iraqis even "know what's best for themselves" or not, it should be their choice. This is policy thought up in Washington the inevitable benefit of the companies allowed to make the bids. THE ONLY COMPANIES ALLOWED TO BID FOR RECONSTRUCTION CONTRACTS WERE AMERICAN. Not even the British were allowed to bid, so don't pretend that this is even going to be a let-the-market-decide kind of affair, especially not with the fact the the Governing Council were all nominated by the State Department.

123

You call that democracy, or what was it again you wanted to accomplish there?

sammi jo

Who's after universal health care for Iraqis???

Bush, dammit!!!! Whats this...socialism?



I'm on fÜcking Kaiser (thieves)..and 40 million Americans have No insurance..







Oh, look who's rebuilding Iraq's bombed phone system...Worldcom!!!! The corporation that perpetrated the biggest accounts fraud in business history gets a no-bid contract worth $billions.

sammi jo

Quote:

Originally posted by BuonRotto

"Oh look. America's getting rich out of Iraq."



Then how come I'm not seeing any of that money?!?!

Well. you are a taxpayer. You are one of us who have collectively shelled out $160 BILLION so far fight a bogus war to enrich corporations close to the Bush administration. That's $1000 per US taxpayer into the coffers of those parasites such as Bechtel, Carlyle, Halliburton, KBR, WorldCom, etc etc etc. What are they? Big Fat Corporate Welfare Queens....they are the ones raking in your hard earned cash. And mine. And the rest of us suckers.

1337_5l4xx0r

Rhetoric aside, is anyone surprised? I mean, Hassan, you are feigning shock, are you not?

hassan i sabbah

Quote:

Originally posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R

Rhetoric aside, is anyone surprised? I mean, Hassan, you are feigning shock, are you not?

Not shocked, exactly, but sort of... angry again.

giaguara

Of course Bush is getting rich because of the war. Do you really think he would have started the war for free? He gets money of it, and so does his dad and their friends.

groverat

Hassan:

Quote:

But that's not the point.

Then why perpetuate the lie?

Quote:

We've been through this sort of thing a dozen times. We're talking here about the privitisation of the services of an entire nation without consulting the people who actually own them, the citizens.

Considering their situation 6 months ago and my lack of knowledge about the future (which is quite unclear), I have a hard time being outraged on such a high-minded level.

Quote:

The point isn't whether or not the Iraqis even "know what's best for themselves" or not, it should be their choice.

I agree, can they make a choice without a representative government?

Quote:

THE ONLY COMPANIES ALLOWED TO BID FOR RECONSTRUCTION CONTRACTS WERE AMERICAN.

Any contract paid for by the American taxpayer should go to an American company. These companies should employ mainly Iraqis with the idea that once our investment is paid off (or a plan it place for pay-off) the infrastructure is handed off to Iraq (private or public, whatever they decide).



I don't like no-bid contracts when not necessary, but I have no problem with American companies getting American taxpayer-funded contracts.

torifile

I'm becoming a little jaded on this discussion. We've got the usual denial of truth - on both sides. Those of you who refuse to believe that the motives for the war were anything but benevolent and those of you who refuse to believe that war is to make people rich. When are we all going to agree that the reason for this war was a complete sham and that's the way it always is and will be as long as we continue to allow people with special interests to make unilateral decisions?