Maybe that's where the real problem here lies. When I think speaking in tongues ...... I think unintelligble babble..... sort of a trance-like state where no one knows what the hell the person is saying.
That's a bit different from say people in one church praying aloud in different, Roman languages.
I don't know what you'd call that but I never though of that particular scenario as "speaking in tongues". Clear things up a bit? And thanks for thinking that I'm not usually "close minded"... second nicest thing anyone has said to me all day.
I am in full agreement Moogs.
The babbling type is difficult to accept as legitimate..I suspect that numerous of these charismatic / pentacostal / revivalist churches put " pressure " on their flock to perform....a kind of One~up~manship.
The more people speak in these so called "tongues" the more enhanced their status....It then becomes a competion of sorts..with the bottom line often being about power & money...
First like Moogs, i am happy to have never whitness such a behavioring.
Second :
This "babbling", is totally illegitimate, and let's say a sort of swindling. Babbling has his place only in the baby nurse, the orthophonist's office, a poltergeist movie or the aliseum.
talking in languages one has never learned to speak in this life is not a phenomenon of churches only. as it can happen and has happened to atheist and non-christians too.
Really? Is there some documentation online somewhere about it?
Which makes no sense to me although the fact that 'Santa' is an anagram of 'Satan' may well be suggestive. On a similar note I think I mentioned before that the word 'evangelists' is an anagram of 'evil agents' (or 'evil's agent' as you wish) but it definitely bears repeating. And pondering.
You will notice also that anagrams works only in one language and have no sense in others.
For example : Santa wich means saint in spanish, is an anagram of Satan, it's translate saint in french witch is an anagram of satin but not of satan. Santa Klaus is called Pere noel in french, and the only evil pere noel, was the web site ( a sort of e bay).
Evangelist is the same word in french, but evil agent is traduced by agents du mal or agents du malin. It simply not work here.
You will notice also that there is no anagrams in many asiatic languages. This kind of arguments will have no sense in china for example.
As a psychologist ( education ), I was fascinated by how "creative " people learn...After much research, in the 1980's I discovered that actually very little was really known. "Creativity " was really poorly understood then*..though our understanding of how people learn and expand their abilities in certain fields..is still up for grabs..
Then there is the learning processes involved in the minds of Austistic and Savants who display an extra-ordinary capacity to do things ( as portrayed in Rain Man ) such as suddenly being able to speak a dozen or so languages virtually overnight.....or being able to hear a complex piece of music once and replay it note perfect.
These persons both young and old show us there is much that is truly mysterious about how the brain imputs, filters and re-uses bits of imformation..
Adding to this vast field..is the work of Dr Allan Snyder..who has found that he can give ordinary people savant like abilities by directing pulses of electromagnetic energy at their frontal lobes...
This he does by using a "Transcranial Magnetic Stimulator "
Powerdoc: Also, I meant to say before I pre-clicked in over-excitement, that as a collector of medieval grimoires and other magical manuscripts, I can inform you that 'satin' is also an anagram of 'nitas' one of the barbarous words of power often previously used in occult rituals such as the sacrifice to the Goat of Mendes (Bush talks about goats a lot doesn't he ?).
In fact there is also much extant evidence that 'Pere Noel' (under whichever guise he hides himself) is in fact none other than the Prince of darkness himself. Hence the 'old Nick/St Nicholas' motif.
And I will find a French anagram for the evangelists !
For the Pere Noel, it's obvious that only the prince of darkness can corrupt kids with gifts : unstead of giving kids presents, we should spank them in order to teach them how to respect the lord ...
For the anagram of evangelistes : i have eglise navets. And it make sense in french, because evangelists are boring sometimes ...
"As a psychologist ( education ), I was fascinated by how "creative " people learn...After much research, in the 1980's I discovered that actually very little was really known. "Creativity " was really poorly understood then*..though our understanding of how people learn and expand their abilities in certain fields..is still up for grabs..
Then there is the learning processes involved in the minds of Austistic and Savants who display an extra-ordinary capacity to do things ( as portrayed in Rain Man ) such as suddenly being able to speak a dozen or so languages virtually overnight.....or being able to hear a complex piece of music once and replay it note perfect.
These persons both young and old show us there is much that is truly mysterious about how the brain imputs, filters and re-uses bits of imformation..
Adding to this vast field..is the work of Dr Allan Snyder..who has found that he can give ordinary people savant like abilities by directing pulses of electromagnetic energy at their frontal lobes...
This he does by using a "Transcranial Magnetic Stimulator "
1) The Toronto Blessing as far as I can tell has little or nothing to do with God. Lack of control is not even close to what God is about.
2) Speaking in tounges should have an interpretation, and if there is not it is not of God. (At least that is how I understand it.)
And in closing, I have not heard whether or Not GWB does, and it does not matter to me one way or the other, but in some Pentecostal or Charismatic circles that is considered the only way to truly have salvation is the infilling of the holy spirit and speaking in tongues. I disagree with that as well. But that is another topic entirely...
Aquafire, I read the link and it was interesting, but not really on the topic. Especially when you think of people learning a language they have never heard in a flash, where what you are speaking of is people learning a language, or something else, exceptionally quickly due to the way their brain functions. Surely you can see the diffrence, whether you accept that speaking in tongues is truly possible or not.
Aquafire, I read the link and it was interesting, but not really on the topic. Especially when you think of people learning a language they have never heard in a flash, where what you are speaking of is people learning a language, or something else, exceptionally quickly due to the way their brain functions. Surely you can see the diffrence, whether you accept that speaking in tongues is truly possible or not.
Yes NoahJ point taken, I appreciate the distinction relative to time and mechansim that you are drawing. My point in posting those links was to show how much we still don't know about how the mind works...
Re speaking in tongues...I will re-iterate my position..
Xeno - Glossia..( foreign but known human tongues ) quite possible...& advantageous to the speading of Christ's message...
On the other hand, straight out Glossia....( alleged angel speech ..babling to others ) is much more difficult to support or defend or to find a purpose for, especially if there is no one present to act as a translator...
ho la to tudo ba ra ma. la sa di na mesa ha la ka. ta ta ba sa na sa. ki bo do da ha va. na ca wa we wi wana wee. sa do ba nah cla ta tu ba
Can you tell me what that means?
Oh and how do you know that I'm going to go to hell? Maybe I'm right and your wrong and you're going to hell. Cause personally if there is a god i doubt he judges you on whether you believe in him but rather what you do with the life he gave you. Telling people they are going to go to hell cause they don't share your beliefs is stupid. I'm just making fun you you guys cause this idea of speaking in tongues is really funny to me, and I am trying to make all of you think about what you have been taught and not just accept it.
Comments
Maybe that's where the real problem here lies. When I think speaking in tongues ...... I think unintelligble babble..... sort of a trance-like state where no one knows what the hell the person is saying.
That's a bit different from say people in one church praying aloud in different, Roman languages.
I don't know what you'd call that but I never though of that particular scenario as "speaking in tongues". Clear things up a bit? And thanks for thinking that I'm not usually "close minded"... second nicest thing anyone has said to me all day.
I am in full agreement Moogs.
The babbling type is difficult to accept as legitimate..I suspect that numerous of these charismatic / pentacostal / revivalist churches put " pressure " on their flock to perform....a kind of One~up~manship.
The more people speak in these so called "tongues" the more enhanced their status....It then becomes a competion of sorts..with the bottom line often being about power & money...
sad really....
First like Moogs, i am happy to have never whitness such a behavioring.
Second :
This "babbling", is totally illegitimate, and let's say a sort of swindling. Babbling has his place only in the baby nurse, the orthophonist's office, a poltergeist movie or the aliseum.
Originally posted by Giaguara
talking in languages one has never learned to speak in this life is not a phenomenon of churches only. as it can happen and has happened to atheist and non-christians too.
Really? Is there some documentation online somewhere about it?
Originally posted by segovius
Which makes no sense to me although the fact that 'Santa' is an anagram of 'Satan' may well be suggestive. On a similar note I think I mentioned before that the word 'evangelists' is an anagram of 'evil agents' (or 'evil's agent' as you wish) but it definitely bears repeating. And pondering.
You will notice also that anagrams works only in one language and have no sense in others.
For example : Santa wich means saint in spanish, is an anagram of Satan, it's translate saint in french witch is an anagram of satin but not of satan. Santa Klaus is called Pere noel in french, and the only evil pere noel, was the web site ( a sort of e bay).
Evangelist is the same word in french, but evil agent is traduced by agents du mal or agents du malin. It simply not work here.
You will notice also that there is no anagrams in many asiatic languages. This kind of arguments will have no sense in china for example.
Then there is the learning processes involved in the minds of Austistic and Savants who display an extra-ordinary capacity to do things ( as portrayed in Rain Man ) such as suddenly being able to speak a dozen or so languages virtually overnight.....or being able to hear a complex piece of music once and replay it note perfect.
These persons both young and old show us there is much that is truly mysterious about how the brain imputs, filters and re-uses bits of imformation..
Adding to this vast field..is the work of Dr Allan Snyder..who has found that he can give ordinary people savant like abilities by directing pulses of electromagnetic energy at their frontal lobes...
This he does by using a "Transcranial Magnetic Stimulator "
It is an interesting theory he puts up.....
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/neuro/TMS_NYT.html
I apologise ahead of time if this later link doesn't work...
http://www.unkowncountry.com/news/?id=2845
* In those days..the work of Getzel & Jackson (1950's) was the main reference point for almost all educators...
Originally posted by segovius
Powerdoc: Also, I meant to say before I pre-clicked in over-excitement, that as a collector of medieval grimoires and other magical manuscripts, I can inform you that 'satin' is also an anagram of 'nitas' one of the barbarous words of power often previously used in occult rituals such as the sacrifice to the Goat of Mendes (Bush talks about goats a lot doesn't he ?).
In fact there is also much extant evidence that 'Pere Noel' (under whichever guise he hides himself) is in fact none other than the Prince of darkness himself. Hence the 'old Nick/St Nicholas' motif.
And I will find a French anagram for the evangelists !
For the Pere Noel, it's obvious that only the prince of darkness can corrupt kids with gifts : unstead of giving kids presents, we should spank them in order to teach them how to respect the lord ...
For the anagram of evangelistes : i have eglise navets. And it make sense in french, because evangelists are boring sometimes ...
"As a psychologist ( education ), I was fascinated by how "creative " people learn...After much research, in the 1980's I discovered that actually very little was really known. "Creativity " was really poorly understood then*..though our understanding of how people learn and expand their abilities in certain fields..is still up for grabs..
Then there is the learning processes involved in the minds of Austistic and Savants who display an extra-ordinary capacity to do things ( as portrayed in Rain Man ) such as suddenly being able to speak a dozen or so languages virtually overnight.....or being able to hear a complex piece of music once and replay it note perfect.
These persons both young and old show us there is much that is truly mysterious about how the brain imputs, filters and re-uses bits of imformation..
Adding to this vast field..is the work of Dr Allan Snyder..who has found that he can give ordinary people savant like abilities by directing pulses of electromagnetic energy at their frontal lobes...
This he does by using a "Transcranial Magnetic Stimulator "
It is an interesting theory he puts up.....
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/neuro/TMS_NYT.html
I apologise ahead of time if this later link doesn't work...
http://www.unkowncountry.com/news/?id=2845
* In those days..the work of Getzel & Jackson (1950's) was the main reference point for almost all educators...
So.... no one interested in these two links...?
1) The Toronto Blessing as far as I can tell has little or nothing to do with God. Lack of control is not even close to what God is about.
2) Speaking in tounges should have an interpretation, and if there is not it is not of God. (At least that is how I understand it.)
And in closing, I have not heard whether or Not GWB does, and it does not matter to me one way or the other, but in some Pentecostal or Charismatic circles that is considered the only way to truly have salvation is the infilling of the holy spirit and speaking in tongues. I disagree with that as well. But that is another topic entirely...
Originally posted by Aquafire
So.... no one interested in these two links...?
I was. Very interesting stuff in the first one. As for the second one, apology accepted.
You don't want to be anywhere near that kind of church service if it happens.
Originally posted by DiscoCow
But don't tell these people that. Then they'd really go psycho. I mean, goddamn. Heads would explode and shit.
You don't want to be anywhere near that kind of church service if it happens.
Some may get upset with you, but most would simply smile and ignore you. Or try to change your mind.
Originally posted by NoahJ
...but most would simply smile and ignore you.
Exactly the same way I would treat them. Amazing.
Originally posted by Groverat
This is one of the dumbest threads ever.
Maybe someone should start a thread discussing weather or not the earth is flat.
..oh wait, I already did that.
Originally posted by NoahJ
Aquafire, I read the link and it was interesting, but not really on the topic. Especially when you think of people learning a language they have never heard in a flash, where what you are speaking of is people learning a language, or something else, exceptionally quickly due to the way their brain functions. Surely you can see the diffrence, whether you accept that speaking in tongues is truly possible or not.
Yes NoahJ point taken, I appreciate the distinction relative to time and mechansim that you are drawing. My point in posting those links was to show how much we still don't know about how the mind works...
Re speaking in tongues...I will re-iterate my position..
Xeno - Glossia..( foreign but known human tongues ) quite possible...& advantageous to the speading of Christ's message...
On the other hand, straight out Glossia....( alleged angel speech ..babling to others ) is much more difficult to support or defend or to find a purpose for, especially if there is no one present to act as a translator...
frkesjfehsadnfd8ehfnwehlkfkdlhfe3uujijifiojj??¨? ¨Â©Â¥Â¨Â©??Â¥?????Â???¬¬Â????©?Â?©ç©?ç©??? ???©¥Â?¥¨Â??Â?ç????fjkkhfjhsjfhskajfhakhuehka cbnjbvubekvubaekbvjajdvbukebvjejhghfuerfbievjebyub kbvubauvbbakvuebvukebgfugbubk©?¨?¥ç?Â????©¬? ???Â?¥ç?®Ã????Â¥??Â¥??jvhjvÂ¥?çÂ?ç?hcvtdcjuk? ©çÂ??
You know what I just said? If you can guess I'll let you into heaven. gosh I sometimes worry about you guys.
Originally posted by Algol
look I can speak in tongues too!
frkesjfehsadnfd8ehfnwehlkfkdlhfe3uujijifiojj??¨? ¨Â©Â¥Â¨Â©??Â¥?????Â???¬¬Â????©?Â?©ç©?ç©??? ???©¥Â?¥¨Â??Â?ç????fjkkhfjhsjfhskajfhakhuehka cbnjbvubekvubaekbvjajdvbukebvjejhghfuerfbievjebyub kbvubauvbbakvuebvukebgfugbubk©?¨?¥ç?Â????©¬? ???Â?¥ç?®Ã????Â¥??Â¥??jvhjvÂ¥?çÂ?ç?hcvtdcjuk? ©çÂ??
You know what I just said? If you can guess I'll let you into heaven. gosh I sometimes worry about you guys.
Don't be asinine. That's just unintelligible drivel.
True speaking in tongues goes like this:
"Ha ta bo ho si ko lo. Bo ho la ta. Ha sham da ka ba la mesa la. U ku lu shu hu she kin. Santa lo ho mas si a."
Get it right, and don't mock the Holy Spirit of GodÂ?, or you'll go straight to HellÂ?.
It's the unforgivable sin you know.
how about this then
ho la to tudo ba ra ma. la sa di na mesa ha la ka. ta ta ba sa na sa. ki bo do da ha va. na ca wa we wi wana wee. sa do ba nah cla ta tu ba
Can you tell me what that means?
Oh and how do you know that I'm going to go to hell? Maybe I'm right and your wrong and you're going to hell. Cause personally if there is a god i doubt he judges you on whether you believe in him but rather what you do with the life he gave you. Telling people they are going to go to hell cause they don't share your beliefs is stupid. I'm just making fun you you guys cause this idea of speaking in tongues is really funny to me, and I am trying to make all of you think about what you have been taught and not just accept it.
Originally posted by Algol
Oh and how do you know that I'm going to go to hell?
Because...because...God told me! Yeah that's it! He told me while we were having coffee this morning.
You should see the amount of sugar he uses. It's scary!
Originally posted by Algol
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL ROFL
Smartass.