Have any Jews oops I mean "Israelis" ever been blown up at all? I mean, have you seen it happen? And do you have proof that an animal oops I mean a "Palestinian" was responsible for the explosion?
I am amazed that a so called civilized human being could so blindly look at this situation.
Rueters- The attacks followed an ambush by gunmen in which three Israeli soldiers were killed in the West Bank and the launch of eight makeshift rockets from Gaza into Israel on Sunday.
AFter which they ran and hid among a crowded city. If they want to call this a war and openly target women and children then honestly what do they expect? They use their own people as shields and hide behind their children. Yet when they get hurt, the same people bombing school buses are crying foul. Grow up. The only people benefitting from this are the "arab leaders" who use this for scapegoat purposes and keep themselves in power.
You will notice that every one of these attacks come in retalliation. If they wanted peace they should have kept their cease fire agreement years ago. That was the closest the region go to having peace. But this isn;t about peace. It's about genocide. If they wanted peace they'd just stop shooting. But no, that's not enough. they want to kill the jews off. Even if it means their own extinction.
I feel bad for the palestinians. They've become nothing but pawns for the other arab countries who have nothing better to do than perpetuate hate.
I'm quite sure your military is imminently capable of this, so why the unguided / semi-guided Cobra rockets from 3000 feet?
You know, them Hamas leaders are the real problem. Sneaky arabs living in close vincinity to civilian targets instead somewhere in the desert where you easily can single them out.
You always have to look for a scapegoat, you cannot blame the perpetrator of state terrorism if he is one of your allies.
Israel is not to blame. They have been victims once, their actions are justified forever.
[BAfter which they ran and hid among a crowded city. If they want to call this a war and openly target women and children then honestly what do they expect? They use their own people as shields and hide behind their children. Yet when they get hurt, the same people bombing school buses are crying foul./B]
I don't think it's the terrorists that are crying foul. Its the world community. The UN and Human Rights organizations. Some of the people on these boards. Not the terrorists.
You always have to look for a scapegoat, you cannot blame the perpetrator of state terrorism if he is one of your allies.
Israel is not to blame. They have been victims once, their actions are justified forever. [/B]
Especially if they were attacked first and only retaliated. Don't get mad because, unlike the US they attack the people who attacked them and not some random target.
What is the difference between what the US did in Iraq and what Isreal does now?
I don't think it's the terrorists that are crying foul. Its the world community. The UN and Human Rights organizations. Some of the people on these boards. Not the terrorists.
Then perhaps the people complaining should spend some time on both sides of the fence there and stopmletting their personal and very uninformed opinions get in the way.
The attacks followed an ambush by gunmen in which three Israeli soldiers were killed... AFter which they ran and hid among a crowded city
You'll notice from your own post that (if this is a war), the Palestinians attacked a legitimate target: soldiers from opposing force.
Whether they are considered to be fighting in a legitimate conflict or not does not absolve Israel from any responsibility to behave in a civilised manner. If you lose the gunmen amongst the crowd...that's what you've done.. lost them. There is no excuse for bombing and killing in the general area in the hope that you'll get those responsible.
Whilst there are constant reports in the media that Palestinian children and 'civilians' are maimed and killed, I don't know if that happened in this case. I doubt I'll ever get the kind of proof that Scott requires, but if the argument is that Israel never did it, people should make that argument not make excuses for why it would be acceptable if they did.
Can you imagine the same response in Spain against ETA or in Northern Ireland against PIRA? I don't imagine there would be too many people offering their support.
Especially if they were attacked first and only retaliated. Don't get mad because, unlike the US they attack the people who attacked them and not some random target.
What is the difference between what the US did in Iraq and what Isreal does now?
Who the hell are you to tell who did what first? There are retalitions on retalitations all the time. Both sides have in the past been the first to break periods of calm.
Statistically, Palestinian attacks are far more accurate in targeting legitimat millitary targets than the israeli attacks. Palestinian attacks have something like a 1/3 millitary/civilian ratio, while israel is close to 1 in 18 millitants to civilians.
But the main difference is that the attacks from israel are State condoned. By an elected government. while the attacks from the palestinian side are (atleast partially) comitted by uncontrolled rouge groups.
And who are you to call people uninformed? Crawl back under your your rock, or discuss the issue in a propper manner.
An interjection: why shouldn't we speak of "Israel" and "the Jews" as if they were interchangeable now?
"Palestinian" and "Arab" are interchangeable. Israel is a Jewish state.
That's why Israel's immigration laws favour Jewish people. That's why the right of return for Arab expulsees is anathema - it would mean the end of the Jewish majority. That's why every single settler from this non-racial Middle Eastern democracy is Jewish. There ain't no Arab Israeli settlers.
So, "Jewish" is an ethnicity, a religion and a culture. Immanuel Goldstein's proved that on this very forum. Israel is the country with the Star of David, the symbol of Judaism, on its flag. Israel is the Jewish state. When we talk about the actions of Israel, we're not talking about the actions of Jewish people in London or New York any more than when we talk about the actions of the suicide bombers we're not talking about Arabs in England or London.
Let's drop the quotes, eh? If you don't like people talking about "the Jews" when they talk about Israel, try and pressure "the Jews" to change so that "the Jews" is a by-word for restraint, generousity and forgiveness rather than bigotry, racism and violence.
The Israeli army is as bad as Hamas. Sharon is as bad as Arafat. Deal with it.
You'll notice from your own post that (if this is a war), the Palestinians attacked a legitimate target: soldiers from opposing force.
I notice that in quoting him, you didnt quote the other part about them launching rockets into israel.. and those werent aimed at military targets they were launched randomly. the majority of the time the palestinians DON'T go after military targets.. why is that... ?
An interjection: why shouldn't we speak of "Israel" and "the Jews" as if they were interchangeable now?
"Palestinian" and "Arab" are interchangeable. Israel is a Jewish state.
That's why Israel's immigration laws favour Jewish people. That's why the right of return for Arab expulsees is anathema - it would mean the end of the Jewish majority. That's why every single settler from this non-racial Middle Eastern democracy is Jewish. There ain't no Arab Israeli settlers.
So, "Jewish" is an ethnicity, a religion and a culture. Immanuel Goldstein's proved that on this very forum. Israel is the country with the Star of David, the symbol of Judaism, on its flag. Israel is the Jewish state. When we talk about the actions of Israel, we're not talking about the actions of Jewish people in London or New York any more than when we talk about the actions of the suicide bombers we're not talking about Arabs in England or London.
Let's drop the quotes, eh? If you don't like people talking about "the Jews" when they talk about Israel, try and pressure "the Jews" to change so that "the Jews" is a by-word for restraint, generousity and forgiveness rather than bigotry, racism and violence.
I'm glad you're owning up to the anti-Semitism people display in this situation. The arab muslims hate Israel not because of land or ocupation but because they are Jews. The liberal/left have fallen into a form intellectualized anti-semitism based on their hatred of Israel.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
The Israeli army is as bad as Hamas. Sharon is as bad as Arafat. Deal with it.
Um no. Arafat is a terrorist Sharon is not. The PA is a terrorist dictatorship and Israel is a democracy fighting for existence. If the difference were more clear to more people this would have been solved years ago.
Arafat is a terrorist Sharon is not. The PA is a terrorist dictatorship and Israel is a democracy fighting for existence. If the difference were more clear to more people this would have been solved years ago.
Actually, the PA is democratically elected.
In what way does Arafat qualify as a terrorist, and Sharon not?
I notice that in quoting him, you didnt quote the other part about them launching rockets into israel.. and those werent aimed at military targets they were launched randomly. the majority of the time the palestinians DON'T go after military targets.. why is that... ?
This is untrue. Only a fraction of Palestinian militans target civilians. Most palestinian attacks are directed against israeli millitary in the occupied territories.
And BTW, up to now, nobody have been killed by the rockets fired into isreal. They are really not a significant factor.
This is untrue. Only a fraction of Palestinian militans target civilians. Most palestinian attacks are directed against israeli millitary in the occupied territories.
And BTW, up to now, nobody have been killed by the rockets fired into isreal. They are really not a significant factor.
Umm, so blowing up buses, and malls, and restaraunts, I guess they are military malls, military busses(with old ladies on em) and military restaraunts? and if someone launched a missile into my property, if they hurt anyone or not, that would be more of luck, and they would get their ass beaten for it.
The PLO does not exsist as such anymore. And they were recognized by the UN as the legal representative of the palestinians.
Arafat is a secular leader, Hamas is a religious organisation. Controlled på Sheik Yassin. Not one of Arafats favourite men.
I notice how you word many of your things... like to twist em ay.. as in ANYMORE, so it was, thus he was a terrorist leader than, that is a difference..(I can play word games to ya know)
Umm, so blowing up buses, and malls, and restaraunts, I guess they are military malls, military busses(with old ladies on em) and military restaraunts? and if someone launched a missile into my property, if they hurt anyone or not, that would be more of luck, and they would get their ass beaten for it.
My point was that the majority of the attacks are directed against milltary targets. you just don't read about it in the media. And when you do, they are often portrayed as attacks against civilians. Like the "massacre" in Hebron last November when 12 armed men, mostly soldiers, where killed in an ambush.
I notice how you word many of your things... like to twist em ay.. as in ANYMORE, so it was, thus he was a terrorist leader than, that is a difference..(I can play word games to ya know)
I never said he was never involved in terrorist attacks in the past. He is no saint. Neither is Sharon. His past is bloody and he has been involved several times in incidents that break international law. Look it up.
Comments
Originally posted by bunge
Have any Jews oops I mean "Israelis" ever been blown up at all? I mean, have you seen it happen? And do you have proof that an animal oops I mean a "Palestinian" was responsible for the explosion?
I am amazed that a so called civilized human being could so blindly look at this situation.
Rueters- The attacks followed an ambush by gunmen in which three Israeli soldiers were killed in the West Bank and the launch of eight makeshift rockets from Gaza into Israel on Sunday.
AFter which they ran and hid among a crowded city. If they want to call this a war and openly target women and children then honestly what do they expect? They use their own people as shields and hide behind their children. Yet when they get hurt, the same people bombing school buses are crying foul. Grow up. The only people benefitting from this are the "arab leaders" who use this for scapegoat purposes and keep themselves in power.
You will notice that every one of these attacks come in retalliation. If they wanted peace they should have kept their cease fire agreement years ago. That was the closest the region go to having peace. But this isn;t about peace. It's about genocide. If they wanted peace they'd just stop shooting. But no, that's not enough. they want to kill the jews off. Even if it means their own extinction.
I feel bad for the palestinians. They've become nothing but pawns for the other arab countries who have nothing better to do than perpetuate hate.
Originally posted by sammi jo
All stupid smileys should be shot.
Originally posted by Moogs
I'm quite sure your military is imminently capable of this, so why the unguided / semi-guided Cobra rockets from 3000 feet?
You know, them Hamas leaders are the real problem. Sneaky arabs living in close vincinity to civilian targets instead somewhere in the desert where you easily can single them out.
You always have to look for a scapegoat, you cannot blame the perpetrator of state terrorism if he is one of your allies.
Israel is not to blame. They have been victims once, their actions are justified forever.
Originally posted by EMGeneratr
[BAfter which they ran and hid among a crowded city. If they want to call this a war and openly target women and children then honestly what do they expect? They use their own people as shields and hide behind their children. Yet when they get hurt, the same people bombing school buses are crying foul./B]
I don't think it's the terrorists that are crying foul. Its the world community. The UN and Human Rights organizations. Some of the people on these boards. Not the terrorists.
Originally posted by Smircle
You always have to look for a scapegoat, you cannot blame the perpetrator of state terrorism if he is one of your allies.
Israel is not to blame. They have been victims once, their actions are justified forever. [/B]
Especially if they were attacked first and only retaliated. Don't get mad because, unlike the US they attack the people who attacked them and not some random target.
What is the difference between what the US did in Iraq and what Isreal does now?
Originally posted by New
I don't think it's the terrorists that are crying foul. Its the world community. The UN and Human Rights organizations. Some of the people on these boards. Not the terrorists.
Then perhaps the people complaining should spend some time on both sides of the fence there and stopmletting their personal and very uninformed opinions get in the way.
Originally posted by EMGeneratr
The attacks followed an ambush by gunmen in which three Israeli soldiers were killed... AFter which they ran and hid among a crowded city
You'll notice from your own post that (if this is a war), the Palestinians attacked a legitimate target: soldiers from opposing force.
Whether they are considered to be fighting in a legitimate conflict or not does not absolve Israel from any responsibility to behave in a civilised manner. If you lose the gunmen amongst the crowd...that's what you've done.. lost them. There is no excuse for bombing and killing in the general area in the hope that you'll get those responsible.
Whilst there are constant reports in the media that Palestinian children and 'civilians' are maimed and killed, I don't know if that happened in this case. I doubt I'll ever get the kind of proof that Scott requires, but if the argument is that Israel never did it, people should make that argument not make excuses for why it would be acceptable if they did.
Can you imagine the same response in Spain against ETA or in Northern Ireland against PIRA? I don't imagine there would be too many people offering their support.
Originally posted by EMGeneratr
Especially if they were attacked first and only retaliated. Don't get mad because, unlike the US they attack the people who attacked them and not some random target.
What is the difference between what the US did in Iraq and what Isreal does now?
Who the hell are you to tell who did what first? There are retalitions on retalitations all the time. Both sides have in the past been the first to break periods of calm.
Statistically, Palestinian attacks are far more accurate in targeting legitimat millitary targets than the israeli attacks. Palestinian attacks have something like a 1/3 millitary/civilian ratio, while israel is close to 1 in 18 millitants to civilians.
But the main difference is that the attacks from israel are State condoned. By an elected government. while the attacks from the palestinian side are (atleast partially) comitted by uncontrolled rouge groups.
And who are you to call people uninformed? Crawl back under your your rock, or discuss the issue in a propper manner.
"Palestinian" and "Arab" are interchangeable. Israel is a Jewish state.
That's why Israel's immigration laws favour Jewish people. That's why the right of return for Arab expulsees is anathema - it would mean the end of the Jewish majority. That's why every single settler from this non-racial Middle Eastern democracy is Jewish. There ain't no Arab Israeli settlers.
So, "Jewish" is an ethnicity, a religion and a culture. Immanuel Goldstein's proved that on this very forum. Israel is the country with the Star of David, the symbol of Judaism, on its flag. Israel is the Jewish state. When we talk about the actions of Israel, we're not talking about the actions of Jewish people in London or New York any more than when we talk about the actions of the suicide bombers we're not talking about Arabs in England or London.
Let's drop the quotes, eh? If you don't like people talking about "the Jews" when they talk about Israel, try and pressure "the Jews" to change so that "the Jews" is a by-word for restraint, generousity and forgiveness rather than bigotry, racism and violence.
The Israeli army is as bad as Hamas. Sharon is as bad as Arafat. Deal with it.
Originally posted by Zarathustra
You'll notice from your own post that (if this is a war), the Palestinians attacked a legitimate target: soldiers from opposing force.
I notice that in quoting him, you didnt quote the other part about them launching rockets into israel.. and those werent aimed at military targets they were launched randomly. the majority of the time the palestinians DON'T go after military targets.. why is that... ?
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
An interjection: why shouldn't we speak of "Israel" and "the Jews" as if they were interchangeable now?
"Palestinian" and "Arab" are interchangeable. Israel is a Jewish state.
That's why Israel's immigration laws favour Jewish people. That's why the right of return for Arab expulsees is anathema - it would mean the end of the Jewish majority. That's why every single settler from this non-racial Middle Eastern democracy is Jewish. There ain't no Arab Israeli settlers.
So, "Jewish" is an ethnicity, a religion and a culture. Immanuel Goldstein's proved that on this very forum. Israel is the country with the Star of David, the symbol of Judaism, on its flag. Israel is the Jewish state. When we talk about the actions of Israel, we're not talking about the actions of Jewish people in London or New York any more than when we talk about the actions of the suicide bombers we're not talking about Arabs in England or London.
Let's drop the quotes, eh? If you don't like people talking about "the Jews" when they talk about Israel, try and pressure "the Jews" to change so that "the Jews" is a by-word for restraint, generousity and forgiveness rather than bigotry, racism and violence.
I'm glad you're owning up to the anti-Semitism people display in this situation. The arab muslims hate Israel not because of land or ocupation but because they are Jews. The liberal/left have fallen into a form intellectualized anti-semitism based on their hatred of Israel.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
The Israeli army is as bad as Hamas. Sharon is as bad as Arafat. Deal with it.
Um no. Arafat is a terrorist Sharon is not. The PA is a terrorist dictatorship and Israel is a democracy fighting for existence. If the difference were more clear to more people this would have been solved years ago.
Originally posted by Scott
Arafat is a terrorist Sharon is not. The PA is a terrorist dictatorship and Israel is a democracy fighting for existence. If the difference were more clear to more people this would have been solved years ago.
Actually, the PA is democratically elected.
In what way does Arafat qualify as a terrorist, and Sharon not?
Originally posted by New
Actually, the PA is democratically elected.
Originally posted by New
In what way does Arafat qualify as a terrorist, and Sharon not?
Because Arafat uses/ed terrorism and Sharon doesn't.
Originally posted by New
Actually, the PA is democratically elected.
In what way does Arafat qualify as a terrorist, and Sharon not?
The PLO is considered a terrorist organization isnt it?
isnt Hamas? who is in charge of those groups??
ARAFAT(also known as Mr Roper)
Originally posted by The General
I notice that in quoting him, you didnt quote the other part about them launching rockets into israel.. and those werent aimed at military targets they were launched randomly. the majority of the time the palestinians DON'T go after military targets.. why is that... ?
This is untrue. Only a fraction of Palestinian militans target civilians. Most palestinian attacks are directed against israeli millitary in the occupied territories.
And BTW, up to now, nobody have been killed by the rockets fired into isreal. They are really not a significant factor.
Originally posted by New
This is untrue. Only a fraction of Palestinian militans target civilians. Most palestinian attacks are directed against israeli millitary in the occupied territories.
And BTW, up to now, nobody have been killed by the rockets fired into isreal. They are really not a significant factor.
Umm, so blowing up buses, and malls, and restaraunts, I guess they are military malls, military busses(with old ladies on em) and military restaraunts? and if someone launched a missile into my property, if they hurt anyone or not, that would be more of luck, and they would get their ass beaten for it.
Originally posted by The General
The PLO is considered a terrorist organization isnt it?
isnt Hamas? who is in charge of those groups??
ARAFAT(also known as Mr Roper)
No, um, WRONG...
The PLO does not exsist as such anymore. And they were recognized by the UN as the legal representative of the palestinians.
Arafat is a secular leader, Hamas is a religious organisation. Controlled på Sheik Yassin. Not one of Arafats favourite men.
Originally posted by New
No, um, WRONG...
The PLO does not exsist as such anymore. And they were recognized by the UN as the legal representative of the palestinians.
Arafat is a secular leader, Hamas is a religious organisation. Controlled på Sheik Yassin. Not one of Arafats favourite men.
I notice how you word many of your things... like to twist em ay.. as in ANYMORE, so it was, thus he was a terrorist leader than, that is a difference..(I can play word games to ya know)
Originally posted by The General
Umm, so blowing up buses, and malls, and restaraunts, I guess they are military malls, military busses(with old ladies on em) and military restaraunts? and if someone launched a missile into my property, if they hurt anyone or not, that would be more of luck, and they would get their ass beaten for it.
My point was that the majority of the attacks are directed against milltary targets. you just don't read about it in the media. And when you do, they are often portrayed as attacks against civilians. Like the "massacre" in Hebron last November when 12 armed men, mostly soldiers, where killed in an ambush.
Originally posted by The General
I notice how you word many of your things... like to twist em ay.. as in ANYMORE, so it was, thus he was a terrorist leader than, that is a difference..(I can play word games to ya know)
I never said he was never involved in terrorist attacks in the past. He is no saint. Neither is Sharon. His past is bloody and he has been involved several times in incidents that break international law. Look it up.