while i would love this to happen, i just can't see it...
what is going to screw things up is if you work in a mixed platform environment (as i do). do you upgrade to 7.1 on the pcs (we do a lot of xml work, so 7.1 appeals a lot), but then have mac versions of 7 that can't deal with the new files?
ggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
On the face of it, it should be OK to upgrade to 7.1 where you can: see the following remarks from the Adobe rep on frameusers. (I've also included the preceding paragraph, which rules out a late arrival of 7.1 for the Mac, alas.)
Quote:
FrameMaker 7.1 will only be available on the platforms listed.
FrameMaker 7.0 will continue to be the current version for all
other platforms for which FrameMaker 7.0 was released.
The file format of FrameMaker 7.1 does not differ at all from
that of FrameMaker 7.0 such that there is full file interoperability
between users of FrameMaker 7.1 and users of FrameMaker 7.0.
This more then sucks. The only reason I have that damn classic environment on my computer is to run FM, I just cannot work without it.
There is no other application that I can use to replace FrameMaker on the Mac. If Adobe drops Mac support what can I do? I'm going to be forced to switch to PCs.
Yes, this was reported in the Times of India some time ago. (No pun intended.) To the best of my knowledge though there has been no specific confirmation that FM8 would support OSX: I've always just assumed it would....
The saga continues: one of the regular members of the frameusers group writes,
Quote:
>I agree. No amount of whining will change the fact that Adobe has,
>apparently, abandoned the Mac platform for FrameMaker development.
Not just the Mac, apparently...
I have received offlist a report on internal Adobe information that confirms that Adobe has decided to end FrameMaker development and migrate users to InDesign. The nature of the information suggests that this may happen earlier than two years hence.
(Note: There is no way for me to check this information. So please treat it as a rumor, although I have no reason to doubt it's accuracy.)
This is an experienced and level-headed respondent with a long track record on this list, not just some fly-by-night troll.
This is very depressing, if it's true.
So: what would it take for InDesign to catch up to Framemaker's features? An off-list respondent compiled the following list:
Quote:
WebWorks for InDesign
RoboHelp for InDesign
Documentum Integration for InDesign
InDesignScript
InDesign Developers Kit (IDK)
InDesign Server
MIF for InDesign
InDesign with EDDs for context-based formatting rules
InDesign with valid XML Round trip (as opposed to well-formed XML round trip)
Apply Master Pages based on paragraph tags/elements in context
Reference pages
Obviously, several of these features could be substituted by equivalents, e.g. substituting Webworks with GoLive integration. Nonetheless, this is a rather daunting list.
Lovely, if they kill FM I don't know what I'll do.
Is there any other program that will give me these Frame Maker features: Paragraph designer, character designer, master pages. indexing, table of contents generation, auto updating of cross references, tables, spell checker, thesaurus, flow text around images, link several files together to form a book.
Off the top of my head those are the features that I use daily... is there another program out there that I can use instead of FM?
i can't see indesign ever having all the FM features...
...unless its a FM add-on to InDesign. the masses wouldn't need the extra features. but the FM users would pay an extra 750+ for their frame features.
InDesign+FM anyone?
Well, yes, that's what I've always had in mind when I spout glibly about ID supplanting FM. I'd imagine that it might be marketed as something like "InDesign TS" (technical suite). The InDesign engine would be thrown in with a potpourri of Adobe libraries, presumably consisting of:
-- Most or all of InDesign as we know it
-- InCopy
-- Fat slabs of Acrobat and GoLive
-- A whole bunch of specialised extra bits for long documents
I've got no doubt whatsoever that Adobe will make us pay through the nose for all this, so I'm sure that your prediction of paying an extra 750 smackeroos is (sadly) not too far wide of the mark.
Well, yes, that's what I've always had in mind when I spout glibly about ID supplanting FM. I'd imagine that it might be marketed as something like "InDesign TS" (technical suite).
The only problem with this scenario is that Frame is actually FAST and stable.
The only problem with this scenario is that Frame is actually FAST and stable.
this reminds me of something which happened at the place i work last week.
a new junior designer, trained on indesign. she is using frame for the first time.
well frame crashed, and she told someone in the office 'that it just crashed', because thats what indesign does all the time. ended up with everyone rushing through to actually see a frame crash...
I've never had reason to use a program like Framemaker with long document features. So I don't know much about the category.
But I know Apple must use this category to prepare manuals and technical documents.
With Framemaker now gone, does this open up a chance for Apple to intro a Word Processor with long document features (a la Keynote) and still not "directly" compete with Microsoft?
Frame was one of the most useful programs a few years back for me. Too bad they couldn't release a OS X Frame based on the old NEXTSTEP version.
FrameMaker is my mission-critical application. Frame, Inc. ported FrameMaker from UNIX to the Mac and Windows. It was a bit un-Maclike, but it more than held its own as a wordprocessor and was without peer for developing long documents. It was used by Apple Computer and by many others to develop their user manuals. However, I always had the sense that Adobe's purchase of Frame was the beginning of the end for FrameMaker. I appreciate the fact that FM 5, 6, and 7 were released by Adobe. However, I was never able to shake the sense that Adobe treated the product like a redheaded stepchild. The Mac leg of the stepchild has been amputated. If you use the Windows or Solaris version, however, I think that you too should be looking for alternatives.
With Framemaker now gone, does this open up a chance for Apple to intro a Word Processor with long document features (a la Keynote) and still not "directly" compete with Microsoft?
Ahhhh Frank777 I too noticed the huge gap that Apple could take advantage of. "We're not trying to compete with Microsoft, Mac users need Long Document support and that's what we're giving" says Steve in the future. Teeehee. Maybe this is a good thing
I feel for Mac Framemaker users. Adobe is a company I would not trust for the long haul. Well and eye for and eye. Develope Shake light and snuff AE out. There are plenty of people ready to leave AE if the right product comes along.
I can't say I'm stunned at all when I look at the big picture. I expect InDesign, Go Live and Acrobat for Macs to be orphaned soon enough. I don't expect any new products to come out for Macs either, only updates to current ones, and those to drop off as well in the next 3-5 years.
At some point a lot of us are going to have to choose between Macs or Adobe products once and for all.
Comments
Originally posted by othello
while i would love this to happen, i just can't see it...
what is going to screw things up is if you work in a mixed platform environment (as i do). do you upgrade to 7.1 on the pcs (we do a lot of xml work, so 7.1 appeals a lot), but then have mac versions of 7 that can't deal with the new files?
ggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
On the face of it, it should be OK to upgrade to 7.1 where you can: see the following remarks from the Adobe rep on frameusers. (I've also included the preceding paragraph, which rules out a late arrival of 7.1 for the Mac, alas.)
FrameMaker 7.1 will only be available on the platforms listed.
FrameMaker 7.0 will continue to be the current version for all
other platforms for which FrameMaker 7.0 was released.
The file format of FrameMaker 7.1 does not differ at all from
that of FrameMaker 7.0 such that there is full file interoperability
between users of FrameMaker 7.1 and users of FrameMaker 7.0.
There is no other application that I can use to replace FrameMaker on the Mac. If Adobe drops Mac support what can I do? I'm going to be forced to switch to PCs.
PS. Adobe India are still supposed to be working on FM8 which is supposedly going to be a major re-write!
ever in hope...
Originally posted by othello
and i've just heard this...
ever in hope...
Yes, this was reported in the Times of India some time ago. (No pun intended.) To the best of my knowledge though there has been no specific confirmation that FM8 would support OSX: I've always just assumed it would....
>I agree. No amount of whining will change the fact that Adobe has,
>apparently, abandoned the Mac platform for FrameMaker development.
Not just the Mac, apparently...
I have received offlist a report on internal Adobe information that confirms that Adobe has decided to end FrameMaker development and migrate users to InDesign. The nature of the information suggests that this may happen earlier than two years hence.
(Note: There is no way for me to check this information. So please treat it as a rumor, although I have no reason to doubt it's accuracy.)
This is an experienced and level-headed respondent with a long track record on this list, not just some fly-by-night troll.
This is very depressing, if it's true.
So: what would it take for InDesign to catch up to Framemaker's features? An off-list respondent compiled the following list:
WebWorks for InDesign
RoboHelp for InDesign
Documentum Integration for InDesign
InDesignScript
InDesign Developers Kit (IDK)
InDesign Server
MIF for InDesign
InDesign with EDDs for context-based formatting rules
InDesign with valid XML Round trip (as opposed to well-formed XML round trip)
Conditional text
Hypertext
Variables
Cross-Reference formats
Import formats
Import element definitions
XML Namespaces
Robust Table Editor
Book-level Find/Change, Spell Check, XREF & Structure Validation
Apply Master Pages based on paragraph tags/elements in context
Reference pages
Obviously, several of these features could be substituted by equivalents, e.g. substituting Webworks with GoLive integration. Nonetheless, this is a rather daunting list.
Is there any other program that will give me these Frame Maker features: Paragraph designer, character designer, master pages. indexing, table of contents generation, auto updating of cross references, tables, spell checker, thesaurus, flow text around images, link several files together to form a book.
Off the top of my head those are the features that I use daily... is there another program out there that I can use instead of FM?
...unless its a FM add-on to InDesign. the masses wouldn't need the extra features. but the FM users would pay an extra 750+ for their frame features.
InDesign+FM anyone?
Originally posted by othello
i can't see indesign ever having all the FM features...
...unless its a FM add-on to InDesign. the masses wouldn't need the extra features. but the FM users would pay an extra 750+ for their frame features.
InDesign+FM anyone?
Well, yes, that's what I've always had in mind when I spout glibly about ID supplanting FM. I'd imagine that it might be marketed as something like "InDesign TS" (technical suite). The InDesign engine would be thrown in with a potpourri of Adobe libraries, presumably consisting of:
-- Most or all of InDesign as we know it
-- InCopy
-- Fat slabs of Acrobat and GoLive
-- A whole bunch of specialised extra bits for long documents
I've got no doubt whatsoever that Adobe will make us pay through the nose for all this, so I'm sure that your prediction of paying an extra 750 smackeroos is (sadly) not too far wide of the mark.
Adobe, look at me
And tell me what you see
You ain't seen the best of me yet
Give me time, and make me as good as "the rest".
I got more in me
And you can set it free
Now Warnock's gone I'm still in your hands
Don't you know who I am?
Remember my name? (Frame)
I'm gonna live forever
I'm gonna learn how to fly (high)
CS and I work together
Framers will buy me and cry (Frame)
I'm gonna make it past seven
Letting me die is a shame (Frame)
I'm gonna live forever
Adobe remember my name.
Adobe, hold on tight
'Cause you will see that I'm right
You will see I'm not for the chop
Give me love and take all I got to give
Adobe, I'll be tough
Too much is never enough
XML just makes my heart quake
Ooh, I got what it takes
Remember my name (Frame)
I'm gonna live forever
Well, I'm gonna give it a try (sigh)
You and I should stick together
Framers will buy me and cry (Frame)
I'm gonna make it past seven
Messing with me's not a game (Frame)
I'm gonna live forever
Adobe remember my name.
(Remember, remember, remember, remember ...)
FRAME!
Well, yes, that's what I've always had in mind when I spout glibly about ID supplanting FM. I'd imagine that it might be marketed as something like "InDesign TS" (technical suite).
The only problem with this scenario is that Frame is actually FAST and stable.
Originally posted by cowerd
The only problem with this scenario is that Frame is actually FAST and stable.
this reminds me of something which happened at the place i work last week.
a new junior designer, trained on indesign. she is using frame for the first time.
well frame crashed, and she told someone in the office 'that it just crashed', because thats what indesign does all the time. ended up with everyone rushing through to actually see a frame crash...
you had to be there!
Adobe FrameMaker End-of-Life for Macintosh Platform
On April 21, 2004 Adobe will discontinue Adobe(r) FrameMaker(r)
software for the Apple Macintosh operating system. Adobe FrameMaker 7.1
will continue to be available on Microsoft(r) Windows(r) and Sun(tm)
Solaris(tm) platforms. Complimentary and fee-based technical support
for FrameMaker for Macintosh will be available for approximately one
year running through April 21, 2005.
Frequently Asked Questions
Q. Why is Adobe discontinuing Macintosh support for FrameMaker
altogether?
A. The decision to discontinue FrameMaker on the Macintosh operating
systems was based on the market conditions for FrameMaker. The majority
of our customers use FrameMaker on Microsoft Windows and Sun Solaris
platforms.
Adobe is continuing Macintosh development for flagship print and web
publishing solutions such as Adobe Creative Suite including InDesign(r)
CS, Photoshop(r) CS, Illustrator(r) CS, GoLive(r) CS, and Acrobat(r).
Q. How much of your FrameMaker base is currently using Macintosh?
A. It is our policy to not comment on the size of our user base.
However, sales of FrameMaker licenses have been greater on the Windows
and Solaris platforms for a number of years.
Q. How much longer will FrameMaker 7.0 for Macintosh be available?
A. Adobe FrameMaker 7.0 for Macintosh will be available to distributors
and licensing customers and through the Adobe Store, until April 21, 2004.
Q. Will Adobe release another version of FrameMaker for Solaris and
Windows?
A. It?s our policy not to disclose future product plans but moving
forward, Adobe's planned development efforts for FrameMaker will focus on
the Windows and Solaris platforms.
Q. Will Macintosh users continue to get support from Adobe on FrameMaker?
A. Adobe will continue to provide complimentary support for FrameMaker 7.0
for Macintosh until April 21, 2005, approximately one year. Adobe will
honor fee-based technical support contracts for the Mac version until they
expire. Adobe Open Option (AOO) maintenance contracts can no longer be
ordered. For North America customers, please contact Adobe Customer Service
at (800) 833-6687. For customers in other regions, please visit
<http:// www.adobe.com/support/intlsupport.html> to contact your local
customer service team.
But I know Apple must use this category to prepare manuals and technical documents.
With Framemaker now gone, does this open up a chance for Apple to intro a Word Processor with long document features (a la Keynote) and still not "directly" compete with Microsoft?
Originally posted by nguyenhm16
Frame was one of the most useful programs a few years back for me. Too bad they couldn't release a OS X Frame based on the old NEXTSTEP version.
FrameMaker is my mission-critical application. Frame, Inc. ported FrameMaker from UNIX to the Mac and Windows. It was a bit un-Maclike, but it more than held its own as a wordprocessor and was without peer for developing long documents. It was used by Apple Computer and by many others to develop their user manuals. However, I always had the sense that Adobe's purchase of Frame was the beginning of the end for FrameMaker. I appreciate the fact that FM 5, 6, and 7 were released by Adobe. However, I was never able to shake the sense that Adobe treated the product like a redheaded stepchild. The Mac leg of the stepchild has been amputated. If you use the Windows or Solaris version, however, I think that you too should be looking for alternatives.
With Framemaker now gone, does this open up a chance for Apple to intro a Word Processor with long document features (a la Keynote) and still not "directly" compete with Microsoft?
Ahhhh Frank777 I too noticed the huge gap that Apple could take advantage of. "We're not trying to compete with Microsoft, Mac users need Long Document support and that's what we're giving" says Steve in the future. Teeehee. Maybe this is a good thing
I feel for Mac Framemaker users. Adobe is a company I would not trust for the long haul. Well and eye for and eye. Develope Shake light and snuff AE out. There are plenty of people ready to leave AE if the right product comes along.
this was not what i had heard from the people i know in adobe.
as someone said, frame is mission critical for me too.
stunned
At some point a lot of us are going to have to choose between Macs or Adobe products once and for all.