Howard Dean's assertion about truck drivers and Confederate flags was clumsy -- but on the right track.
By Jefferson Cowie
When a white, patrician guy from a very white state starts talking about Confederate flags, he really ought to be careful. Howard Dean's clumsy recent statement that he wants to court "white folks in the South who drive trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back" is a good example of why. But though he fumbled the rhetoric, burned himself politically and failed to develop his idea in any sophisticated way, the sentiment behind Dean's statement is exactly what the Democratic Party needs...
While many politicians are aware of this legacy, it is Howard Dean who has awkwardly but boldly tried to articulate its importance. He is not naive enough to think that he can transform this issue, but, as with his political pirouette on the death penalty, he seeks to defuse it because such topics have too often sandbagged Democrats in the past. He has to know that the age-old historical question of why poor blacks and poor whites -- northern or southern -- have never been able to unite for long in this country is not going to be solved under his leadership. But, if he can reframe our nation's obsession with its race into a shared economic agenda, he stands a chance of making progress. Indeed, lost in the hoopla about Dean's remarks was his argument that those poor southern whites "ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance, either, and their kids need better schools, too." That's the part not enough people heard -- and that's what we need to hear more about from Dean.
How is wanting a better public school system, a better health care system and more jobs selective progessivism?
The laws would have to change in order to govern Indian reservations. Which essentially exist and nations within a nation. I agree that all those benefits should be supplied by the businesses tat operate on Indian reservations.
But then again... how many working uninsured are there in this country? Millions. And only a small percentage of them work on indian reservations.
Would be nice if healthcare was provided for everyone... no matter where they worked.
I apologize for not catching your replies sooner chu. I do want to compliment you as well. They have been well thought out, informative replies as well.
The issues you discuss when applied as a whole are not selective progressivism, it is how those issues are applied. You cite articles that mention code words like "silent majority" as a form of racism. To me there is no racial connotation to those words so the code must be very secret.
When I speak of applied I mean the fact that what starts out as very generalized spending soon becomes very specialized spending catagorized very much by special interests.
The clearest example I can give for this is the one I know best, education. There is loads of education spending. However so much of it is specialized that the regular education student sees very little of it. Special education growth has far outpaced other types of growth. Likewise on my campus we have as many adults administering Title I, Title VII, SIP, etc as we do administrators for the whole school. By that I mean they push the paper for those programs.
We have before, after and even off-track interventions for kids that are retention candidates. It is almost always the exact same children referred year after year. They miss lots of them and the parent(s) basicaly sees them as free day care. Meanwhile we cannot afford playground equipment for the other 95% of the kids or even basic supplies at times. We are also a magnet school which means we get extra money because we serve minority students and they create programs in an attempt to convince white students to bus in to our school. All these again take away from general funds.
Now imagine this type of scenario applied to health care....not a chance...
While I agree that the public school system has many problems... the problem is complex... and I don't think reverse racism or pandering is the cause.
Suburban flight, indifference and an unwillingness to consider education as one of the most important investments in our future is the problem.
Americans are so easy to convince to spend more on defense spending... but buy new computers... or even text books? Music classes or the arts? I think we've gotten our priorities all screwed up.
And it didn't help when whites in the 60's and 70's started moving and pulling their kids out of schools in order to avoid having them learn with black children in urban areas. North and south.
Obviously throwing money at the problem isn't the solution. But... are we really giving the kids a chance with what we're giving them now?
O.K., I've got a question. If southerners aren't voting "god guns and gays", ie. cultural positioning, what are they voting?
Why wouldn't they be concerned with the kinds of issues that concern voters elsewhere? From a Nov. 1 Washington Times article on the Kentucky race:
Quote:
Jobs and the economy are on the voters' minds.
On the issues, both candidates vow not to raise taxes but agree the state must enact tax reforms to raise revenue and cut waste to close a more than $200 million budget deficit.
Chandler wants riverboat casino gambling. Fletcher opposes expanded gambling but would leave the final decision up to voters.
The candidates also promised to raise teacher pay. Kentucky ranks 37th in the nation in average teacher pay.
Chandler's education plan calls for smaller class sizes and no school vouchers. Fletcher wants more federal funds to increase child literacy. Both are against raising the state's 3-cent-a-pack cigarette tax, the lowest in the nation.
I don't know what the Mississippi race turned on but the upcoming Louisiana race features a brown-skinned Republican who looks to be the frontrunner right now. In other words, if race is an issue in that race it's an issue in a way that speaks well of Louisiana's voters.
One more thing: his name is Bobby Jindal. I'm betting you'll hear a lot more about him.
Why wouldn't they be concerned with the kinds of issues that concern voters elsewhere? From a Nov. 1 Washington Times article on the Kentucky race:I don't know what the Mississippi race turned on but the upcoming Louisiana race features a brown-skinned Republican who looks to be the frontrunner right now. In other words, if race is an issue in that race it's an issue in a way that speaks well of Louisiana's voters.
One more thing: his name is Bobby Jindal. I'm betting you'll hear a lot more about him.
Wait zaphod_beeblebrox? You state facts without stereotyping and you are trying to suggest that voters in the south vote for the same reasons that anyone else votes for? WOW...... What a thought.....
Ohh and speaking of Bobby Jindal I found this interesting:
"Bobby is connecting with the voters of Louisiana because they know he has boundless energy, integrity, and a strong vision for the future," said RGA Executive Director Ed Tobin.
Vision for the future What? One filled with racism?
connecting with the voters You mean he understands the people instead of coming from a mostly white state and telling others how to manage their racism?
they know he has boundless integrity WHAT! Integrity? Not pandering? Not promoting racism and asking those who have the confederate flag to vote for him?
While I agree that the public school system has many problems... the problem is complex... and I don't think reverse racism or pandering is the cause.
Suburban flight, indifference and an unwillingness to consider education as one of the most important investments in our future is the problem.
Americans are so easy to convince to spend more on defense spending... but buy new computers... or even text books? Music classes or the arts? I think we've gotten our priorities all screwed up.
And it didn't help when whites in the 60's and 70's started moving and pulling their kids out of schools in order to avoid having them learn with black children in urban areas. North and south.
Obviously throwing money at the problem isn't the solution. But... are we really giving the kids a chance with what we're giving them now?
I think people think this might happen to their health care. It is a rather famous case with a lot of history if you care to research it.
I do think Americans have their spending priorities straight with education. They just don't understand how government works and that is what takes a moderate Democrat and likely turns him into a moderate Republican. They vote in the money but then it gets eaten up with special issues and interests. Here in California for example we have some of the highest licensing fees in the country, but they money doesn't go for roads.
I do think there has indeed been some white flight, but that is because of the nature of schools as well. They will let offenses that would put you in jail be handled with things like suspensions, Sat. school etc. When you combine the lack of ability to enforce your own values along with the institution actively seeking to teach contrary values, then the folks just pull up stakes and go somewhere else where they can elect the school board they want. I think it looks racial, but I think the white folks just had the money to do this while the poorer black folks just had to stay and suffer.
Sometimes I cant tell if you're in denial or just being tricky. You act like these prejudice attitudes didn't exist... that it's just perception and not reality.
And you seem to be assuming if there were black students... there was more crime...
What special interests control Democrats when it comes to education?
I find it funny that you think if a Democrat is moderate... it's the same thing as a moderate Republican.
What those damned teachers need to do is get together somehow and speak with a unified voice and get out from under that union. Once they're free of it, they'll already have the organizational structures in place so that they can continue to speak with a united voice so that they could bargain collectively for the things they want.
That Strom sure was a character. Twenty-three years after fathering a child with a black woman he ran one of the most viciously racist presidential campaigns since before the Civil War. What an upstanding and wonderful man. So glad he was third in line to be president for so long.
Comments
Pickup Line
Howard Dean's assertion about truck drivers and Confederate flags was clumsy -- but on the right track.
By Jefferson Cowie
When a white, patrician guy from a very white state starts talking about Confederate flags, he really ought to be careful. Howard Dean's clumsy recent statement that he wants to court "white folks in the South who drive trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back" is a good example of why. But though he fumbled the rhetoric, burned himself politically and failed to develop his idea in any sophisticated way, the sentiment behind Dean's statement is exactly what the Democratic Party needs...
While many politicians are aware of this legacy, it is Howard Dean who has awkwardly but boldly tried to articulate its importance. He is not naive enough to think that he can transform this issue, but, as with his political pirouette on the death penalty, he seeks to defuse it because such topics have too often sandbagged Democrats in the past. He has to know that the age-old historical question of why poor blacks and poor whites -- northern or southern -- have never been able to unite for long in this country is not going to be solved under his leadership. But, if he can reframe our nation's obsession with its race into a shared economic agenda, he stands a chance of making progress. Indeed, lost in the hoopla about Dean's remarks was his argument that those poor southern whites "ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance, either, and their kids need better schools, too." That's the part not enough people heard -- and that's what we need to hear more about from Dean.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
How is wanting a better public school system, a better health care system and more jobs selective progessivism?
The laws would have to change in order to govern Indian reservations. Which essentially exist and nations within a nation. I agree that all those benefits should be supplied by the businesses tat operate on Indian reservations.
But then again... how many working uninsured are there in this country? Millions. And only a small percentage of them work on indian reservations.
Would be nice if healthcare was provided for everyone... no matter where they worked.
I apologize for not catching your replies sooner chu. I do want to compliment you as well. They have been well thought out, informative replies as well.
The issues you discuss when applied as a whole are not selective progressivism, it is how those issues are applied. You cite articles that mention code words like "silent majority" as a form of racism. To me there is no racial connotation to those words so the code must be very secret.
When I speak of applied I mean the fact that what starts out as very generalized spending soon becomes very specialized spending catagorized very much by special interests.
The clearest example I can give for this is the one I know best, education. There is loads of education spending. However so much of it is specialized that the regular education student sees very little of it. Special education growth has far outpaced other types of growth. Likewise on my campus we have as many adults administering Title I, Title VII, SIP, etc as we do administrators for the whole school. By that I mean they push the paper for those programs.
We have before, after and even off-track interventions for kids that are retention candidates. It is almost always the exact same children referred year after year. They miss lots of them and the parent(s) basicaly sees them as free day care. Meanwhile we cannot afford playground equipment for the other 95% of the kids or even basic supplies at times. We are also a magnet school which means we get extra money because we serve minority students and they create programs in an attempt to convince white students to bus in to our school. All these again take away from general funds.
Now imagine this type of scenario applied to health care....not a chance...
Nick
Suburban flight, indifference and an unwillingness to consider education as one of the most important investments in our future is the problem.
Americans are so easy to convince to spend more on defense spending... but buy new computers... or even text books? Music classes or the arts? I think we've gotten our priorities all screwed up.
And it didn't help when whites in the 60's and 70's started moving and pulling their kids out of schools in order to avoid having them learn with black children in urban areas. North and south.
Obviously throwing money at the problem isn't the solution. But... are we really giving the kids a chance with what we're giving them now?
Originally posted by chu_bakka
... Remember how well Pat Buchanan went over at the convention talking about a moral and cultural war with the left?
Remember how Buchanan LEFT the GOP because it wasn't addressing his issues? Well, maybe you didn't remember that.
Originally posted by addabox
O.K., I've got a question. If southerners aren't voting "god guns and gays", ie. cultural positioning, what are they voting?
Why wouldn't they be concerned with the kinds of issues that concern voters elsewhere? From a Nov. 1 Washington Times article on the Kentucky race:
Jobs and the economy are on the voters' minds.
On the issues, both candidates vow not to raise taxes but agree the state must enact tax reforms to raise revenue and cut waste to close a more than $200 million budget deficit.
Chandler wants riverboat casino gambling. Fletcher opposes expanded gambling but would leave the final decision up to voters.
The candidates also promised to raise teacher pay. Kentucky ranks 37th in the nation in average teacher pay.
Chandler's education plan calls for smaller class sizes and no school vouchers. Fletcher wants more federal funds to increase child literacy. Both are against raising the state's 3-cent-a-pack cigarette tax, the lowest in the nation.
I don't know what the Mississippi race turned on but the upcoming Louisiana race features a brown-skinned Republican who looks to be the frontrunner right now. In other words, if race is an issue in that race it's an issue in a way that speaks well of Louisiana's voters.
One more thing: his name is Bobby Jindal. I'm betting you'll hear a lot more about him.
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
Why wouldn't they be concerned with the kinds of issues that concern voters elsewhere? From a Nov. 1 Washington Times article on the Kentucky race:I don't know what the Mississippi race turned on but the upcoming Louisiana race features a brown-skinned Republican who looks to be the frontrunner right now. In other words, if race is an issue in that race it's an issue in a way that speaks well of Louisiana's voters.
One more thing: his name is Bobby Jindal. I'm betting you'll hear a lot more about him.
Wait zaphod_beeblebrox? You state facts without stereotyping and you are trying to suggest that voters in the south vote for the same reasons that anyone else votes for? WOW...... What a thought.....
Fellows
"Bobby is connecting with the voters of Louisiana because they know he has boundless energy, integrity, and a strong vision for the future," said RGA Executive Director Ed Tobin.
Vision for the future What? One filled with racism?
connecting with the voters You mean he understands the people instead of coming from a mostly white state and telling others how to manage their racism?
they know he has boundless integrity WHAT! Integrity? Not pandering? Not promoting racism and asking those who have the confederate flag to vote for him?
Did somebody say Integrity??????? NO WAY!!!!!!!!!
His website
Fellowship
Originally posted by chu_bakka
While I agree that the public school system has many problems... the problem is complex... and I don't think reverse racism or pandering is the cause.
Suburban flight, indifference and an unwillingness to consider education as one of the most important investments in our future is the problem.
Americans are so easy to convince to spend more on defense spending... but buy new computers... or even text books? Music classes or the arts? I think we've gotten our priorities all screwed up.
And it didn't help when whites in the 60's and 70's started moving and pulling their kids out of schools in order to avoid having them learn with black children in urban areas. North and south.
Obviously throwing money at the problem isn't the solution. But... are we really giving the kids a chance with what we're giving them now?
I think people think this might happen to their health care. It is a rather famous case with a lot of history if you care to research it.
Desegregation-Kansas City
I do think Americans have their spending priorities straight with education. They just don't understand how government works and that is what takes a moderate Democrat and likely turns him into a moderate Republican. They vote in the money but then it gets eaten up with special issues and interests. Here in California for example we have some of the highest licensing fees in the country, but they money doesn't go for roads.
I do think there has indeed been some white flight, but that is because of the nature of schools as well. They will let offenses that would put you in jail be handled with things like suspensions, Sat. school etc. When you combine the lack of ability to enforce your own values along with the institution actively seeking to teach contrary values, then the folks just pull up stakes and go somewhere else where they can elect the school board they want. I think it looks racial, but I think the white folks just had the money to do this while the poorer black folks just had to stay and suffer.
Nick
And you seem to be assuming if there were black students... there was more crime...
What special interests control Democrats when it comes to education?
I find it funny that you think if a Democrat is moderate... it's the same thing as a moderate Republican.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
... What special interests control Democrats when it comes to education?
The teachers unions! What was that about being in denial?
One union.
Screwing up the schools. The teachers. All of em.
That's like saying the problem with healthcare is the doctors.
CNN
Originally posted by chu_bakka
That's a "special interest"?
One union.
Screwing up the schools. The teachers. All of em.
You said a mouth-full!
What those damned teachers need to do is get together somehow and speak with a unified voice and get out from under that union. Once they're free of it, they'll already have the organizational structures in place so that they can continue to speak with a united voice so that they could bargain collectively for the things they want.
Yeah.
Cheers
Scott
Originally posted by Akumulator
CNN
Haha!
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
No doubt it will be one of the most entertaining to watch unfold.
Cheers back atcha,
Fellows
are you guys going to kiss now
Since we're talking about the south and kissing.
How interesting is this?!
Strom Thurmond had a secret child with a black woman.
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml...toryID=3997889
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/16/national/16STRO.html