I personally think the humans made the hovercrafts and EMPs... The thing with rocket launchers and bullets is they hurt the machines, and not there equipment too.
I personally think the humans made the hovercrafts and EMPs... The thing with rocket launchers and bullets is they hurt the machines, and not there equipment too.
No way man. The humans in Zion don't have the technology, or the know-how, to make the hover-crafts. No, I think they were provided to give the humans a false sense of security; yet another method of control.
why didn't they just have 10 emp's in the dock area?
shut everything off, emp the bastards.
when more show up, shut everything off and emp them again.
you could do that all day.
If you remember in the second movie, all the ships of the various captains went to head off the machines and a junction where they thought they would have an advantage. I forget the name of the human Agent Smith took over (was it Blane?) but he activated the EMP on this ship in which he was serving and it disabled all the other ships. The machines then slaughtered all the captains and their various crews. Blane/Smith was the sole survivor and was picked up by the one ship I guess that managed to avoid all of it.
if you watch animatrix... the hovercraft is the standard for comfortable travel in the near future... complete with AC, FM stereo and mp3 player heh.
Also think of the logistics of it... they know exactly whats wrong with them when they are broken look at revolution when they repair the broken one, the operating system and everything even if they didn't originally manufacture them its very clear that they know what they are doing. Given the circumstances I think you'd have to know how they work, what they are used, to even know how to fly one.
its my personal opinion that the machines provided the humans Zion, with all the machinery they needed to have food and breath. As I recall and i"m not sure, but the dialogue with the elder in reloaded said that they manufactured them.
why didn't they just have 10 emp's in the dock area?
shut everything off, emp the bastards.
when more show up, shut everything off and emp them again.
you could do that all day.
dude thats what I am thinking... why don't they make just a bunch of thermo nuclear bombs and bomb 01 to heck... the EMP shockwave of a thermo, nuclear bomb alone could take the city out.
Ok, I've dutifully avoided this thread until I got a chance to see the movie. Now, it's my turn to chime in.
There is a concept in psychology - borrowed from other areas, especially Eastern philosophy - called mindfulness. The Matrix is all about this concept. In general, there are 3 types of "mind": rational mind, emotion mind and wise mind. All humans struggle with this concept. It's that splinter in the back of your mind. Some people attempt to understand it more and these people were the ones that were "freed" and sent to Zion.
Neo's struggle was to get to wise mind. Wise mind is that place where you're operating out of an intuitive understanding of things. It's that feeling in your gut that you know what you need to do. Sometimes we don't understand it. The choices we make when we're not operating out of strict logic are sometimes the hardest to figure out but are the most important ones we can make. Neo was struggling to understand the choices his "wise mind" told him were right.
At the beginning of the first movie, in the "jump" scene, for example, Neo was still operating out of rational mind. He didn't understand HOW Morpheus could jump that far. It was impossible. As the movie progressed, we saw Neo beginning to trust his intuition and by the end of it, when he's able to stop the bullets, he's achieved wise mind and he now trusts what his rational mind tells him is not possible.
During the second movie, Neo is trying to understand what he knows to be true. The intuition that he needs to do certain things, the choices he "can't understand." This is where the Oracle comes in. Keep in mind, she's an intuitive program, designed to help the Matrix maintain control and understand the sometimes illogical nature of the people it's trying to control. The second movie was all about understanding intuition. By the end of it, Neo still doesn't get it.
Now we move to the third movie and Neo's still stuck trying to understand his intuition. But in the meantime the war continues. Neo understands that he must do something to stop Smith but that's a hard decision to make. Here he is struggling with emotion mind. Emotion mind and wise mind look a lot alike because they both consider things that don't necessarily map onto logical ideas.
We cut to the last scene in the movie. Neo and Smith are way up in the sky and Neo gets a look in his eye. I thought he was going to open up a can of whoop ass on Smith at that point. Instead, we've got Smith taking Neo all the way to the ground and basically defeating him. But Neo fights on and Smith can't understand why he would do it. It's choice. It's Neo's choice to continue fighting and it was Neo's choice to allow Smith to infiltrate his body. (Remember the scene in the second movie when Smith tries to do the same thing? Neo fought it off then - a decision that SEEMED like the wise thing to do, but was actually emotion mind mimicking wise mind.) Neo understands the decision he has made. That is acceptance of one's role in life and a genuine belief that it's the right thing to do. Neo didn't give up, he accepted his role.
At the end, the equation is balanced - both Neo and Smith were "canceled" out and the Oracle, Sati and Serif were all leftover when Smith was destroyed. The "revolution" in this movie was that the machines are doing things differently now. "Some things never change. And some things do."
dude thats what I am thinking... why don't they make just a bunch of thermo nuclear bombs and bomb 01 to heck... the EMP shockwave of a thermo, nuclear bomb alone could take the city out.
They DID, in the animatrix second renessaince part 2
this is my biggest problem with the series, I LOVE the movies, and really enjoyed them, BUT
this is a big discrepancy, the SR:P2 starts by talking about how humans mastered all the elements of earth and layed waste to 01, then it shows 01 englufed in nuclear fire.
but yet somehow the subsequent EMPs from all those nukes didn't short out all the machines?
bologne!
even worse is that they show nukes going off in the midst of battle(well, okay maybe these were just really big bombs that caused mushroom clouds)but still, the machines somehow WIN the war???
I went into revolutions expecting to be totally mind-ed, I was hoping they pulled a ridiculous twist like "actually, the machines LOST the war and, since they are machines, they are easy to reprogram, though since they are also sophisticated AI, they needed something to do to keep them passive, hence creating the illusion of the matrix, and the winning of the war...and yadda yadda yadda"
that was and ending that I was prepared to swallow, simply because it is sooooo far out there and uinexpected.
I was also jokingly ready to take "*and neo wakes up in the real world, the whole thing was a dream*"
One thing that has bugged me from the beginning is the idea of humans as a battery. Yes, our body produces energy but we never put out as much as we but in. We are rather inefficient in that regard. How then can the machines keep us alive? They say that they feed the dead to the living, yet that still would not be enough energy to keep the living body alive. There is no way all the body would produce enough energy to power all those machines, put the city of zion. Also I'm surprised the machine never bothered to come up with a more efficient energy source, or even come up with a way to clean the sky and use the sun.
One thing that has bugged me from the beginning is the idea of humans as a battery. Yes, our body produces energy but we never put out as much as we but in. We are rather inefficient in that regard. How then can the machines keep us alive? They say that they feed the dead to the living, yet that still would not be enough energy to keep the living body alive. There is no way all the body would produce enough energy to power all those machines, put the city of zion. Also I'm surprised the machine never bothered to come up with a more efficient energy source, or even come up with a way to clean the sky and use the sun.
i think the wachowskis kinda ignored some factual problems for the sake of their story. an old story i heard from a very reputable friend of mine in the comic biz said the wachowskis actually started the matrix as a comic long before the movie, but found that it was actually less difficult to pitch a movie idea and get funding than to back regular publication and sales of their comic in a flooded marketplace (this was the mid-to-late 90's, when the comic industry imploded under its own weight and the influence of collectors and tie-ins than actual storylines).
so let that be a lesson to all you young folk -- hone your hollywood pitching skills (*ahem*), and then you can do anything else you want.
We are rather inefficient in that regard. How then can the machines keep us alive?
actually, i just rewatched the first one the other day. there's one line that talks about this.
something to the extent blah blah "this energy, combined with a form of fusion"
i was like WTF!! they have fusion and they're wasting time on human beings. it makes even less sense that way, but oh well. only thing i can think of is that the human energy is somehow usable when the fusion energy isn't. but energy is energy.
actually, i just rewatched the first one the other day. there's one line that talks about this.
something to the extent blah blah "this energy, combined with a form of fusion"
i was like WTF!! they have fusion and they're wasting time on human beings. it makes even less sense that way, but oh well. only thing i can think of is that the human energy is somehow usable when the fusion energy isn't. but energy is energy.
well, remember the machines are trying to maintain a position of control over humankind, too. so if you have to maintain control over the people, you may as well get something back from them while you're at it (otherwise, all you have is a prison system, where you invest lots intto the system, but get negligible returns). and once they figured out a program that could keep them unaware 98% of the time, then they only needed to invest a minimal amount of effort to patrol against that rogue 2%.
i was like WTF!! they have fusion and they're wasting time on human beings. it makes even less sense that way, but oh well. only thing i can think of is that the human energy is somehow usable when the fusion energy isn't. but energy is energy.
Yeah, that explanation is very weak, scientifically. That's why I was hoping that they were going to reveal a more rational explanation for the matrix. In the Animatrix they explain the development of the matrix as the result of a peace treaty with the machines. I think a cooler explanation would be that the machines need the humans for innovation or simply keep them alive out of some lingering respect for their creators.
Yet more reasons why they should have a TV series.
something I read in defense of the silliness of using humans as batteries or whatever.
If you tell a human that X resource will give them power for 100,000 years, they will be satisfied. But if you tell a machine that, they will instantly start worrying about year 100,001
but with the humans in combination with the fusion reactor, they have truly unlimited power, or power that will last till the calculated end of the solar system at least.
of course, it's still fairly silly, but take it with a grain of salt, this is science FICTION after all.
dude thats what I am thinking... why don't they make just a bunch of thermo nuclear bombs and bomb 01 to heck... the EMP shockwave of a thermo, nuclear bomb alone could take the city out.
Did you watch the Animatrix? They did...but the machines were unaffected. Yeah right.
Did you watch the Animatrix? They did...but the machines were unaffected. Yeah right.
yeah i did watch it myself... remember the line...
"but machines are unaffected like human flesh too radioactivity (yeah right) and kept rebuilding...
Overall if you put it into perspective 8 billion humans massed together to make convectional heat into electricity I guess works... sides its freaky (which is cooler)... way better than the they kept humans as slaves in the terminator.
I personally think that 01 wouldn't have looked the way it did either in real life... it looks too human influenced... if it was a machine I'd go the borg thing like a big cube of efficiency or something.
Did anyone see the huge starfox lookalike face at the end? hehe
yeah and the rennaissance in the animatrix was by far the coolest one on there.
Comments
I personally think the humans made the hovercrafts and EMPs... The thing with rocket launchers and bullets is they hurt the machines, and not there equipment too.
Originally posted by kraig911
eh RandyCAt that is up to personal discretion...
I personally think the humans made the hovercrafts and EMPs... The thing with rocket launchers and bullets is they hurt the machines, and not there equipment too.
No way man. The humans in Zion don't have the technology, or the know-how, to make the hover-crafts. No, I think they were provided to give the humans a false sense of security; yet another method of control.
why didn't they just have 10 emp's in the dock area?
shut everything off, emp the bastards.
when more show up, shut everything off and emp them again.
you could do that all day.
Originally posted by alcimedes
here's one thing i didn't understand at all.
why didn't they just have 10 emp's in the dock area?
shut everything off, emp the bastards.
when more show up, shut everything off and emp them again.
you could do that all day.
cause it would be too easy.
Originally posted by alcimedes
here's one thing i didn't understand at all.
why didn't they just have 10 emp's in the dock area?
shut everything off, emp the bastards.
when more show up, shut everything off and emp them again.
you could do that all day.
If you remember in the second movie, all the ships of the various captains went to head off the machines and a junction where they thought they would have an advantage. I forget the name of the human Agent Smith took over (was it Blane?) but he activated the EMP on this ship in which he was serving and it disabled all the other ships. The machines then slaughtered all the captains and their various crews. Blane/Smith was the sole survivor and was picked up by the one ship I guess that managed to avoid all of it.
Nick
you can keep using 1 EMP all day. just keep recharging it.
Also think of the logistics of it... they know exactly whats wrong with them when they are broken look at revolution when they repair the broken one, the operating system and everything even if they didn't originally manufacture them its very clear that they know what they are doing. Given the circumstances I think you'd have to know how they work, what they are used, to even know how to fly one.
its my personal opinion that the machines provided the humans Zion, with all the machinery they needed to have food and breath. As I recall and i"m not sure, but the dialogue with the elder in reloaded said that they manufactured them.
Originally posted by alcimedes
here's one thing i didn't understand at all.
why didn't they just have 10 emp's in the dock area?
shut everything off, emp the bastards.
when more show up, shut everything off and emp them again.
you could do that all day.
dude thats what I am thinking... why don't they make just a bunch of thermo nuclear bombs and bomb 01 to heck... the EMP shockwave of a thermo, nuclear bomb alone could take the city out.
There is a concept in psychology - borrowed from other areas, especially Eastern philosophy - called mindfulness. The Matrix is all about this concept. In general, there are 3 types of "mind": rational mind, emotion mind and wise mind. All humans struggle with this concept. It's that splinter in the back of your mind. Some people attempt to understand it more and these people were the ones that were "freed" and sent to Zion.
Neo's struggle was to get to wise mind. Wise mind is that place where you're operating out of an intuitive understanding of things. It's that feeling in your gut that you know what you need to do. Sometimes we don't understand it. The choices we make when we're not operating out of strict logic are sometimes the hardest to figure out but are the most important ones we can make. Neo was struggling to understand the choices his "wise mind" told him were right.
At the beginning of the first movie, in the "jump" scene, for example, Neo was still operating out of rational mind. He didn't understand HOW Morpheus could jump that far. It was impossible. As the movie progressed, we saw Neo beginning to trust his intuition and by the end of it, when he's able to stop the bullets, he's achieved wise mind and he now trusts what his rational mind tells him is not possible.
During the second movie, Neo is trying to understand what he knows to be true. The intuition that he needs to do certain things, the choices he "can't understand." This is where the Oracle comes in. Keep in mind, she's an intuitive program, designed to help the Matrix maintain control and understand the sometimes illogical nature of the people it's trying to control. The second movie was all about understanding intuition. By the end of it, Neo still doesn't get it.
Now we move to the third movie and Neo's still stuck trying to understand his intuition. But in the meantime the war continues. Neo understands that he must do something to stop Smith but that's a hard decision to make. Here he is struggling with emotion mind. Emotion mind and wise mind look a lot alike because they both consider things that don't necessarily map onto logical ideas.
We cut to the last scene in the movie. Neo and Smith are way up in the sky and Neo gets a look in his eye. I thought he was going to open up a can of whoop ass on Smith at that point. Instead, we've got Smith taking Neo all the way to the ground and basically defeating him. But Neo fights on and Smith can't understand why he would do it. It's choice. It's Neo's choice to continue fighting and it was Neo's choice to allow Smith to infiltrate his body. (Remember the scene in the second movie when Smith tries to do the same thing? Neo fought it off then - a decision that SEEMED like the wise thing to do, but was actually emotion mind mimicking wise mind.) Neo understands the decision he has made. That is acceptance of one's role in life and a genuine belief that it's the right thing to do. Neo didn't give up, he accepted his role.
At the end, the equation is balanced - both Neo and Smith were "canceled" out and the Oracle, Sati and Serif were all leftover when Smith was destroyed. The "revolution" in this movie was that the machines are doing things differently now. "Some things never change. And some things do."
Originally posted by agro craig
dude thats what I am thinking... why don't they make just a bunch of thermo nuclear bombs and bomb 01 to heck... the EMP shockwave of a thermo, nuclear bomb alone could take the city out.
They DID, in the animatrix second renessaince part 2
this is my biggest problem with the series, I LOVE the movies, and really enjoyed them, BUT
this is a big discrepancy, the SR:P2 starts by talking about how humans mastered all the elements of earth and layed waste to 01, then it shows 01 englufed in nuclear fire.
but yet somehow the subsequent EMPs from all those nukes didn't short out all the machines?
bologne!
even worse is that they show nukes going off in the midst of battle(well, okay maybe these were just really big bombs that caused mushroom clouds)but still, the machines somehow WIN the war???
I went into revolutions expecting to be totally mind-
that was and ending that I was prepared to swallow, simply because it is sooooo far out there and uinexpected.
I was also jokingly ready to take "*and neo wakes up in the real world, the whole thing was a dream*"
Originally posted by Dogcow
One thing that has bugged me from the beginning is the idea of humans as a battery. Yes, our body produces energy but we never put out as much as we but in. We are rather inefficient in that regard. How then can the machines keep us alive? They say that they feed the dead to the living, yet that still would not be enough energy to keep the living body alive. There is no way all the body would produce enough energy to power all those machines, put the city of zion. Also I'm surprised the machine never bothered to come up with a more efficient energy source, or even come up with a way to clean the sky and use the sun.
i think the wachowskis kinda ignored some factual problems for the sake of their story. an old story i heard from a very reputable friend of mine in the comic biz said the wachowskis actually started the matrix as a comic long before the movie, but found that it was actually less difficult to pitch a movie idea and get funding than to back regular publication and sales of their comic in a flooded marketplace (this was the mid-to-late 90's, when the comic industry imploded under its own weight and the influence of collectors and tie-ins than actual storylines).
so let that be a lesson to all you young folk -- hone your hollywood pitching skills (*ahem*), and then you can do anything else you want.
We are rather inefficient in that regard. How then can the machines keep us alive?
actually, i just rewatched the first one the other day. there's one line that talks about this.
something to the extent blah blah "this energy, combined with a form of fusion"
i was like WTF!! they have fusion and they're wasting time on human beings. it makes even less sense that way, but oh well. only thing i can think of is that the human energy is somehow usable when the fusion energy isn't. but energy is energy.
Originally posted by alcimedes
actually, i just rewatched the first one the other day. there's one line that talks about this.
something to the extent blah blah "this energy, combined with a form of fusion"
i was like WTF!! they have fusion and they're wasting time on human beings. it makes even less sense that way, but oh well. only thing i can think of is that the human energy is somehow usable when the fusion energy isn't. but energy is energy.
well, remember the machines are trying to maintain a position of control over humankind, too. so if you have to maintain control over the people, you may as well get something back from them while you're at it (otherwise, all you have is a prison system, where you invest lots intto the system, but get negligible returns). and once they figured out a program that could keep them unaware 98% of the time, then they only needed to invest a minimal amount of effort to patrol against that rogue 2%.
Originally posted by alcimedes
i was like WTF!! they have fusion and they're wasting time on human beings. it makes even less sense that way, but oh well. only thing i can think of is that the human energy is somehow usable when the fusion energy isn't. but energy is energy.
Yeah, that explanation is very weak, scientifically. That's why I was hoping that they were going to reveal a more rational explanation for the matrix. In the Animatrix they explain the development of the matrix as the result of a peace treaty with the machines. I think a cooler explanation would be that the machines need the humans for innovation or simply keep them alive out of some lingering respect for their creators.
Yet more reasons why they should have a TV series.
If you tell a human that X resource will give them power for 100,000 years, they will be satisfied. But if you tell a machine that, they will instantly start worrying about year 100,001
but with the humans in combination with the fusion reactor, they have truly unlimited power, or power that will last till the calculated end of the solar system at least.
of course, it's still fairly silly, but take it with a grain of salt, this is science FICTION after all.
Originally posted by kraig911
dude thats what I am thinking... why don't they make just a bunch of thermo nuclear bombs and bomb 01 to heck... the EMP shockwave of a thermo, nuclear bomb alone could take the city out.
Did you watch the Animatrix? They did...but the machines were unaffected. Yeah right.
since machine are machines, in theory they won't be nearly as creative as humans could be.
so the machines just work the Matrix so that humans are working to solve whatever the machines want solved.
Originally posted by Placebo
Did you watch the Animatrix? They did...but the machines were unaffected. Yeah right.
yeah i did watch it myself... remember the line...
"but machines are unaffected like human flesh too radioactivity (yeah right) and kept rebuilding...
Overall if you put it into perspective 8 billion humans massed together to make convectional heat into electricity I guess works... sides its freaky (which is cooler)... way better than the they kept humans as slaves in the terminator.
I personally think that 01 wouldn't have looked the way it did either in real life... it looks too human influenced... if it was a machine I'd go the borg thing like a big cube of efficiency or something.
Did anyone see the huge starfox lookalike face at the end? hehe
yeah and the rennaissance in the animatrix was by far the coolest one on there.