99.9% of them are scammers. They don't have a job because they can't hold one. Drinks, drugs, anti-social mental illness. The later have a real excuse. Get 'em into an SRO and hope for the best.
How do you even know that women was homeless? I've had similar sob stories from people that quite clearly aren't living on the street (and I've seen plenty of people in nice suits lie to get something they want). So I'm not sure how your point relates directly to the homeless.
As for 'scamming':
So they're big 'scam' was to intentionally develop the inability to hold a job and become addicted to drink and/or drugs, possibly because of mental illness? (And if they are in that final group, all 0.01% of them by your estimate, they are fine by you.) It's hardly up there with Enron in the dastardly scheme stakes, in fact it's more like 'ing up their lives' than scamming.
I mean, I'm not expecting you to propose some grand socialist vision but some internal consistency would help.
---------
Personally, I would make begging illegal and I *never* give money to beggers. It preys on vulnerable people, who give money to make themselves feel bettero or because they feel physically unsafe. Many beggars are simply scam-artists who give the people who are really living on the streets a bad name. The ones who are 'real' beggars are probably using the money to feed a drink/drug habit and so would be far better served with food, rehab and psychiatric help than a ready source of cash.
It's a simple case of not rewarding something you don't want to encourage. As other's have mentioned most charity is about making the giver feel better about themselves (and sustaining the charity industry) rather than actually providing help to the recipients.
This applies to both domestic and foreign aid e.g. a country starves because their food production is disrupted by war -> lets flood the market with free grain that we were going to scrap anyway because of our subsidies and overproduction and totally trash their farming economy. Whatever happend to the free market?
Where do I start... oh shit... forget about it... I hate those homeless bastards too. They don't even have to pay rent. That's not fair.
What about those of us complaining that homeless people should not be cut $400 checks per month with no accountability? All that money could be put directly into shelters and food services. Instead homeless people end up getting gouged at sleazy motels or spending the money on non-essential items. Do you have a beef that?
The homeless flock to SF because of the cash they get. Is it really fair to the citizens OR the homeless? Everyone gets a raw deal in a way...
What about those of us complaining that homeless people should not be cut $400 checks per month with no accountability? All that money could be put directly into shelters and food services. Instead homeless people end up getting gouged at sleazy motels or spending the money on non-essential items. Do you have a beef that?
The homeless flock to SF because of the cash they get. Is it really fair to the citizens OR the homeless? Everyone gets a raw deal in a way...
Only a few more months of Willie Brown...
Actually more homeless are also created in San Francisco because of the areas insane zoning/environmental codes which makes it impossible to build any new housing.
Thomas Sowell writes about this every few months. San Francisco is the only place I have ever been that made beach front property in Newport look cheap. The city and places like Berkeley for example don't allow any new building of housing and the prices rise like a rocket. Meanwhile they declare they are "compassionate" when no one can find an inexpensive place to live. Also the number of black folks living in San Francisco and Berkeley has been halved because of these insame prices.
You don't have to segregate people. You just declare yourself compassionate, don't allow any new housing in your own backyard and then watch the poor folks get priced out of the market.
That the homeless shit and piss in the doorways of people and when given public facilities they make them unsafe by having sex and doing drugs in them.
That there are able-bodied people and freeloaders that when given a non-judgemental form of charity abuse it.
That other people can be harmed by supposed compassion?
Ever see that film with rutger hauer and ice T? The one where rutger pays homeless people to do a job or something hen flys them out in the middle of no-where and hunts them, or something like that.
Just a thought.
But seriously, since your renovating your house, why not go round and ask some to do some work for you, like painting or something? At least your giving them hope and moral and at the very least you just might get to know a few of them and therefore convince them not to go near your property. Gotta be worth a try.
...some of you need so goddamn compassion. Jesus H. Christ - do you guys even realize what must be like to be homeless, having nothing to eat, and having to deal with a lot of assholes who continuously abuse them physically and mentally. And let's not forget a lot of them are the way they are because of drugs and abuse (as in when they were kids). We, society, have created homeless men, women, and kids because of our lack of concern. We HAVE to help them and NEVER forget the hell they are in.
What about those of us complaining that homeless people should not be cut $400 checks per month with no accountability? All that money could be put directly into shelters and food services. Instead homeless people end up getting gouged at sleazy motels or spending the money on non-essential items. Do you have a beef that?
The homeless flock to SF because of the cash they get. Is it really fair to the citizens OR the homeless? Everyone gets a raw deal in a way...
Only a few more months of Willie Brown...
That sucks Eugene. i had no idea of the situation there. the money would be better spent in shelters where people could get the help they need, if they want it that is. Going to motels and such gives them no support for the trully hopeless.
...some of you need so goddamn compassion. Jesus H. Christ - do you guys even realize what must be like to be homeless, having nothing to eat, and having to deal with a lot of assholes who continuously abuse them physically and mentally. And let's not forget a lot of them are the way they are because of drugs and abuse (as in when they were kids). We, society, have created homeless men, women, and kids because of our lack of concern. We HAVE to help them and NEVER forget the hell they are in.
You are high. First and foremost I do realize what it is like to be homeless. Back when I was young and foolish I was renting a room in an apartment. I thought my name was on the rental agreement and it wasn't. Needless to say the crazy person I had ended up sharing it with had turned in notice and hadn't even told anyone. Suddenly with like a day's notice I've got to move (you notice this when all the sudden there is a moving van out front) and I've got returned rent, no security deposit, no savings (being like 19 and a college student will do that to ya) so I had to move into my car for a month- 6 weeks)
I assure you that even during that time I held down my job, and kept my pride. I got back on my feet quickly because I helped myself.
As for how I grew up, the car was preferable.
I don't create the homeless. I have visited homes where mom, dad and four kids were living in a one bedroom apartment, but there was food in their belly, pride in their manner, and the homes were cramped but clean.
The folks he is referring to in the first post have chosen a lifestyle and do so even when given help or better choices. Given them restrooms so they don't crap in an alley, hey, good place for a drug deal. Give them food and blankets, hey good to thrown the trash on your lawn/sidewalk.
Even the poorest able-bodied person can care enough to not destroy a neighborhood.
That so many of the people posting in this thread assume that the majority of homeless people are there by their own fault, are scammers or gaming the system and hence are undeserving of any compassion or assistance.
A lot of people in our cities are cold, hungry and sick. Some of them end up on the streets because they are mentally ill and unable to care for themselves (about 33 percent of the long term homeless display signs of mental illness, 20 to 25 percent display signs of serious mental illness). Some of them end up there because of problems with drugs and/or alcohol (about 30 percent have substance addictions), but the main reason why people become homeless is that they just don't have anywhere else to go.
For example: a huge percent of people raised in foster care end up living on the streets at one point or another in their adult lives. An estimated 45 percent of kids leaving foster care end up homeless within a year. The system says 'you're on your own' when they hit a certain age and until they fall far enough they really are on their own. They have no families to support or help them in the event that things go wrong. Some make it, many don't. Those that make it should be applauded, those that don't should be assisted.
As for the 'freeloading' families driving up to take free food from a soup kitchen or food pantry. Just because a family has access to a car or a roof over their heads does not mean that they are getting enough to eat. An estimated 1.5 million people in NYC rely on emergency food programs. Without food assistance, one in four children in NYC would go hungry.
Here are some more fun facts about those lazy, ungrateful, doorway shitting in, drug and alcohol abusing human cockroaches:
- 25 percent of homeless individuals are children under 18.
- 3 percent of homeless individuals are unaccompanied minors.
- 40 percent of homeless individuals are families with children.
- 22 percent of homeless individuals left home due to domestic violence.
- 40 percent of men who are homeless are veterans.
- 22 percent of homeless individuals are employed.
That the system has flaws in its attempt to deal with the problem of homelessness is indisputable. Obviously, if the system worked instances of homelessness would be few and far between. But what is needed is more compassion and greater, more efficient levels of assistance...not contempt and disregard disguised as 'tough love'.
The homeless shit and piss and sleep on the streets because they have nowhere else to shit and piss and sleep. They scam and beg and steal and then spend the money on alcohol and drugs because that makes having to shit and piss and sleep on the streets just a little bit more bearable. Only a tiny fraction of the seriously mentally ill homeless might actually choose to live this way. Anyone who claims that the homeless have no one but themselves to blame for their condition is either just plain ignorant or a callous, self-righteous asshole.
The homeless shit and piss and sleep on the streets because they have nowhere else to shit and piss and sleep.
How close do you live to homeless people? They don't just piss in the back alley mind you. Many make every effort to piss right on your doorstep. I saw it almost every night walking down as busy a street as University Avenue in the late evenings.
In my college co-op my room on the first floor used to have door access outside and down a short flight of stairs into the alley-way. It was converted into a window but the base and steps were still there. After I moved out of Berkeley, my friend took over the room. I went to visit him once, and decided to spook him by knocking on his window. Unfortunately a homeless couple had set-up camp right there. They were living right outside his window. If that had happened to me while I lived there I would have been furious. I mean, there's a church that offers shelter across the street EVEN...And there's People's Park about a two blocks away.
Wow...I agree with trumptman! Precipitation in Hell at 11, chances are it will be a cold one!
Quote:
Douglas Adams might suggest a planet just for them (and telephone sanitizers)
the latest scam here is that more and more of the homeless have dogs
(part for sympathy, and to claim as a "dependent" for extra $100 of welfare)
of course, the dogs then foul the sidewalks too...
but for the dogs, it's like the longest walk in the world, and most would do better on their own
Yeah Douglas Adams.
Bums with pets piss me off. They have no right to have an animal they can't care for. And it's just to get money. I used to give them extra money but now, well, I it's saddening. How did the bums end up bums? Did they not try hard enough in school? I'm compassionate, hell I'm devoting my life to environmental sciences which benefits everyone/thing. But I don't get why bums become bums. Is it so hard to just graduate high school, take a shower, apply for a position at McDonald's, and work your way up? Perhaps if we weren't devoting so much resources to making tax shelters in the Caribbean and defending Dick Cheney's pension plan in Iraq we'd be able to have some money to spend on improving education and healthcare. Is there anyone from Russia here? Were there bums in Communist countries back during the cold war? But yes there will always be scammers. Hey there are people that charge you to make your room have better feng shui. There is a lot of bullshit going on. Penn and Teller's show Bullshit is great.
I lived on the LES until about nine months ago. I'd step over human shit pretty much every morning as I walked out my door and again as I entered the subway at 2nd and Houston. The park in front of my building was full of dealers and users. The alleyway behind my building was a combination toilet / shooting gallery and was full of shit, piss, blood, needles, pipes and broken bottles. The next building over was the Bowery mission. I think I have seen the chronically homeless at their worst.
I now live in Brooklyn, but I'm half a block from a Salvation Army center so there are crackheads and chronically homeless people in the area at all times. It's a little cleaner, but the homeless are a lot more visible.
The way many of these people live is sad and disgusting...but they're still human beings.
Is it so hard to just graduate high school, take a shower, apply for a position at McDonald's, and work your way up?
It's probably pretty difficult if you have untreated schizophrenia or your foster father beats and rapes you every night until you run away and start sticking needles in your arm so you don't have to think about it too much.
Every once and a while when I feel my life is quite shitty - I go to download Los Angeles and at around 5th Street, for two whole block you only see homeless men, women, and kids (not to mention that's the only place where I've seen people selling drugs) and I realize how easy I have it (I may be unemployed and poor - but I still have a ceiling, food, and hope to look for). I hope none of you would ever see life as the man above.
Comments
Originally posted by applenut
way too many homeless here
Yeah, and it's even worse in San Francisco where they get $400+ in homeless welfare checks a month...no strings attached.
Originally posted by alcimedes
IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT. THEY ARE'T RESPONSIBLE!!!
EEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
Of course not individuals are not here to take responsiblity. Moron
Where do I start... oh shit... forget about it... I hate those homeless bastards too. They don't even have to pay rent. That's not fair.
...
Originally posted by Scott
[panhandling anecdote...]
homeless woman walks off fast.
99.9% of them are scammers. They don't have a job because they can't hold one. Drinks, drugs, anti-social mental illness. The later have a real excuse. Get 'em into an SRO and hope for the best.
How do you even know that women was homeless? I've had similar sob stories from people that quite clearly aren't living on the street (and I've seen plenty of people in nice suits lie to get something they want). So I'm not sure how your point relates directly to the homeless.
As for 'scamming':
So they're big 'scam' was to intentionally develop the inability to hold a job and become addicted to drink and/or drugs, possibly because of mental illness? (And if they are in that final group, all 0.01% of them by your estimate, they are fine by you.) It's hardly up there with Enron in the dastardly scheme stakes, in fact it's more like '
I mean, I'm not expecting you to propose some grand socialist vision but some internal consistency would help.
---------
Personally, I would make begging illegal and I *never* give money to beggers. It preys on vulnerable people, who give money to make themselves feel bettero or because they feel physically unsafe. Many beggars are simply scam-artists who give the people who are really living on the streets a bad name. The ones who are 'real' beggars are probably using the money to feed a drink/drug habit and so would be far better served with food, rehab and psychiatric help than a ready source of cash.
It's a simple case of not rewarding something you don't want to encourage. As other's have mentioned most charity is about making the giver feel better about themselves (and sustaining the charity industry) rather than actually providing help to the recipients.
This applies to both domestic and foreign aid e.g. a country starves because their food production is disrupted by war -> lets flood the market with free grain that we were going to scrap anyway because of our subsidies and overproduction and totally trash their farming economy. Whatever happend to the free market?
Originally posted by New
I don't believe this thread...
Where do I start... oh shit... forget about it... I hate those homeless bastards too. They don't even have to pay rent. That's not fair.
What about those of us complaining that homeless people should not be cut $400 checks per month with no accountability? All that money could be put directly into shelters and food services. Instead homeless people end up getting gouged at sleazy motels or spending the money on non-essential items. Do you have a beef that?
The homeless flock to SF because of the cash they get. Is it really fair to the citizens OR the homeless? Everyone gets a raw deal in a way...
Only a few more months of Willie Brown...
Originally posted by Eugene
What about those of us complaining that homeless people should not be cut $400 checks per month with no accountability? All that money could be put directly into shelters and food services. Instead homeless people end up getting gouged at sleazy motels or spending the money on non-essential items. Do you have a beef that?
The homeless flock to SF because of the cash they get. Is it really fair to the citizens OR the homeless? Everyone gets a raw deal in a way...
Only a few more months of Willie Brown...
Actually more homeless are also created in San Francisco because of the areas insane zoning/environmental codes which makes it impossible to build any new housing.
Thomas Sowell writes about this every few months. San Francisco is the only place I have ever been that made beach front property in Newport look cheap. The city and places like Berkeley for example don't allow any new building of housing and the prices rise like a rocket. Meanwhile they declare they are "compassionate" when no one can find an inexpensive place to live. Also the number of black folks living in San Francisco and Berkeley has been halved because of these insame prices.
You don't have to segregate people. You just declare yourself compassionate, don't allow any new housing in your own backyard and then watch the poor folks get priced out of the market.
Nick
Originally posted by New
I don't believe this thread...
Me neither...
Originally posted by kneelbeforezod
Me neither...
What don't you believe....
That the homeless shit and piss in the doorways of people and when given public facilities they make them unsafe by having sex and doing drugs in them.
That there are able-bodied people and freeloaders that when given a non-judgemental form of charity abuse it.
That other people can be harmed by supposed compassion?
Tell me which part you don't believe...
Nick
Just a thought.
But seriously, since your renovating your house, why not go round and ask some to do some work for you, like painting or something? At least your giving them hope and moral and at the very least you just might get to know a few of them and therefore convince them not to go near your property. Gotta be worth a try.
Originally posted by Eugene
What about those of us complaining that homeless people should not be cut $400 checks per month with no accountability? All that money could be put directly into shelters and food services. Instead homeless people end up getting gouged at sleazy motels or spending the money on non-essential items. Do you have a beef that?
The homeless flock to SF because of the cash they get. Is it really fair to the citizens OR the homeless? Everyone gets a raw deal in a way...
Only a few more months of Willie Brown...
That sucks Eugene. i had no idea of the situation there. the money would be better spent in shelters where people could get the help they need, if they want it that is. Going to motels and such gives them no support for the trully hopeless.
the latest scam here is that more and more of the homeless have dogs
(part for sympathy, and to claim as a "dependent" for extra $100 of welfare)
of course, the dogs then foul the sidewalks too...
but for the dogs, it's like the longest walk in the world, and most would do better on their own
Originally posted by /mandolux/
...some of you need so goddamn compassion. Jesus H. Christ - do you guys even realize what must be like to be homeless, having nothing to eat, and having to deal with a lot of assholes who continuously abuse them physically and mentally. And let's not forget a lot of them are the way they are because of drugs and abuse (as in when they were kids). We, society, have created homeless men, women, and kids because of our lack of concern. We HAVE to help them and NEVER forget the hell they are in.
You are high. First and foremost I do realize what it is like to be homeless. Back when I was young and foolish I was renting a room in an apartment. I thought my name was on the rental agreement and it wasn't. Needless to say the crazy person I had ended up sharing it with had turned in notice and hadn't even told anyone. Suddenly with like a day's notice I've got to move (you notice this when all the sudden there is a moving van out front) and I've got returned rent, no security deposit, no savings (being like 19 and a college student will do that to ya) so I had to move into my car for a month- 6 weeks)
I assure you that even during that time I held down my job, and kept my pride. I got back on my feet quickly because I helped myself.
As for how I grew up, the car was preferable.
I don't create the homeless. I have visited homes where mom, dad and four kids were living in a one bedroom apartment, but there was food in their belly, pride in their manner, and the homes were cramped but clean.
The folks he is referring to in the first post have chosen a lifestyle and do so even when given help or better choices. Given them restrooms so they don't crap in an alley, hey, good place for a drug deal. Give them food and blankets, hey good to thrown the trash on your lawn/sidewalk.
Even the poorest able-bodied person can care enough to not destroy a neighborhood.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
What don't you believe....
That so many of the people posting in this thread assume that the majority of homeless people are there by their own fault, are scammers or gaming the system and hence are undeserving of any compassion or assistance.
A lot of people in our cities are cold, hungry and sick. Some of them end up on the streets because they are mentally ill and unable to care for themselves (about 33 percent of the long term homeless display signs of mental illness, 20 to 25 percent display signs of serious mental illness). Some of them end up there because of problems with drugs and/or alcohol (about 30 percent have substance addictions), but the main reason why people become homeless is that they just don't have anywhere else to go.
For example: a huge percent of people raised in foster care end up living on the streets at one point or another in their adult lives. An estimated 45 percent of kids leaving foster care end up homeless within a year. The system says 'you're on your own' when they hit a certain age and until they fall far enough they really are on their own. They have no families to support or help them in the event that things go wrong. Some make it, many don't. Those that make it should be applauded, those that don't should be assisted.
As for the 'freeloading' families driving up to take free food from a soup kitchen or food pantry. Just because a family has access to a car or a roof over their heads does not mean that they are getting enough to eat. An estimated 1.5 million people in NYC rely on emergency food programs. Without food assistance, one in four children in NYC would go hungry.
Here are some more fun facts about those lazy, ungrateful, doorway shitting in, drug and alcohol abusing human cockroaches:
- 25 percent of homeless individuals are children under 18.
- 3 percent of homeless individuals are unaccompanied minors.
- 40 percent of homeless individuals are families with children.
- 22 percent of homeless individuals left home due to domestic violence.
- 40 percent of men who are homeless are veterans.
- 22 percent of homeless individuals are employed.
That the system has flaws in its attempt to deal with the problem of homelessness is indisputable. Obviously, if the system worked instances of homelessness would be few and far between. But what is needed is more compassion and greater, more efficient levels of assistance...not contempt and disregard disguised as 'tough love'.
The homeless shit and piss and sleep on the streets because they have nowhere else to shit and piss and sleep. They scam and beg and steal and then spend the money on alcohol and drugs because that makes having to shit and piss and sleep on the streets just a little bit more bearable. Only a tiny fraction of the seriously mentally ill homeless might actually choose to live this way. Anyone who claims that the homeless have no one but themselves to blame for their condition is either just plain ignorant or a callous, self-righteous asshole.
Sources: 1 2 3 4
The homeless shit and piss and sleep on the streets because they have nowhere else to shit and piss and sleep.
How close do you live to homeless people? They don't just piss in the back alley mind you. Many make every effort to piss right on your doorstep. I saw it almost every night walking down as busy a street as University Avenue in the late evenings.
In my college co-op my room on the first floor used to have door access outside and down a short flight of stairs into the alley-way. It was converted into a window but the base and steps were still there. After I moved out of Berkeley, my friend took over the room. I went to visit him once, and decided to spook him by knocking on his window. Unfortunately a homeless couple had set-up camp right there. They were living right outside his window. If that had happened to me while I lived there I would have been furious. I mean, there's a church that offers shelter across the street EVEN...And there's People's Park about a two blocks away.
Douglas Adams might suggest a planet just for them (and telephone sanitizers)
the latest scam here is that more and more of the homeless have dogs
(part for sympathy, and to claim as a "dependent" for extra $100 of welfare)
of course, the dogs then foul the sidewalks too...
but for the dogs, it's like the longest walk in the world, and most would do better on their own
Yeah Douglas Adams.
Bums with pets piss me off. They have no right to have an animal they can't care for. And it's just to get money. I used to give them extra money but now, well, I it's saddening. How did the bums end up bums? Did they not try hard enough in school? I'm compassionate, hell I'm devoting my life to environmental sciences which benefits everyone/thing. But I don't get why bums become bums. Is it so hard to just graduate high school, take a shower, apply for a position at McDonald's, and work your way up? Perhaps if we weren't devoting so much resources to making tax shelters in the Caribbean and defending Dick Cheney's pension plan in Iraq we'd be able to have some money to spend on improving education and healthcare. Is there anyone from Russia here? Were there bums in Communist countries back during the cold war? But yes there will always be scammers. Hey there are people that charge you to make your room have better feng shui. There is a lot of bullshit going on. Penn and Teller's show Bullshit is great.
Originally posted by Eugene
How close do you live to homeless people?
I lived on the LES until about nine months ago. I'd step over human shit pretty much every morning as I walked out my door and again as I entered the subway at 2nd and Houston. The park in front of my building was full of dealers and users. The alleyway behind my building was a combination toilet / shooting gallery and was full of shit, piss, blood, needles, pipes and broken bottles. The next building over was the Bowery mission. I think I have seen the chronically homeless at their worst.
I now live in Brooklyn, but I'm half a block from a Salvation Army center so there are crackheads and chronically homeless people in the area at all times. It's a little cleaner, but the homeless are a lot more visible.
The way many of these people live is sad and disgusting...but they're still human beings.
Originally posted by Aquatic
Is it so hard to just graduate high school, take a shower, apply for a position at McDonald's, and work your way up?
It's probably pretty difficult if you have untreated schizophrenia or your foster father beats and rapes you every night until you run away and start sticking needles in your arm so you don't have to think about it too much.
Every once and a while when I feel my life is quite shitty - I go to download Los Angeles and at around 5th Street, for two whole block you only see homeless men, women, and kids (not to mention that's the only place where I've seen people selling drugs) and I realize how easy I have it (I may be unemployed and poor - but I still have a ceiling, food, and hope to look for). I hope none of you would ever see life as the man above.