I think the juncture over which opposing sides seem to be talking past each other here is how to separate the "scammers" and "opportunists" from those who really need help. Clearly, significant amounts of both exist out there. Unfortunately, the scammers and opportunists will inherently sop out the benefits away from the truly needy. So just throwing more compassion and resources at the problem won't solve anything. There needs to be an extra step involving "identification" and subsequent elimination of scammers from the system.
Every once and a while when I feel my life is quite shitty - I go to download Los Angeles and at around 5th Street, for two whole block you only see homeless men, women, and kids (not to mention that's the only place where I've seen people selling drugs) and I realize how easy I have it (I may be unemployed and poor - but I still have a ceiling, food, and hope to look for). I hope none of you would ever see life as the man above.
I think the juncture over which opposing sides seem to be talking past each other here is how to separate the "scammers" and "opportunists" from those who really need help. Clearly, significant amounts of both exist out there. Unfortunately, the scammers and opportunists will inherently sop out the benefits away from the truly needy. So just throwing more compassion and resources at the problem won't solve anything. There needs to be an extra step involving "identification" and subsequent elimination of scammers from the system.
Exactly...
as I said...
That there are able-bodied people and freeloaders that when given a non-judgemental form of charity abuse it.
Charities should be able to judge. Instead they just pass out hand outs. They should be able to say if you are going to stay here, there is an expectation, even if part of that expectation is you will sit through the help you need.
Not just to judge, but impose standards upon those that they help. What's wrong with saying that as long as you stay in our shelter, no drinking? Works for the Salvation Army.
All of the homeless, whether or not they could be diagnosed with some disease or mental illness, need help. Or they wouldn't be homeless. Maybe it's training in job skills, or medication. Those are the same thing really.
The disproportionate burden that the homeless represent to some folks (those who have to live in certain areas) is unfair, but there's pretty good evidence that communities can bring a wave of homelessness upon themselves. Either via rent control, or other restrictions on cheap housing, or through excessive handouts without some behavior-changing strings attached. The only solution to the problem of homelessness, for people who aren't homeless, is to move away -- involvement (in charity work) and representation (to change zoning laws and other policies) doesn't really seem to work any more in many places.
That's unfortunate, because there are plenty of homeless folks out there who deserve help and could end the cycle with a push. The systems in place, though, keep that push from happening fast enough many times.
Half way houses provide a function for helping those that want to be helped. They have programs that help with trying to rehabilitate the homeless by mitigating their transition back into society through job programs and assisted living. "Graduation" from the program usually means having proved that a person is able to maintain a job and place of residence. In theory, it?s like learning to ride a bike, after a while, the training wheels come off and you're good to go. In reality, it is hard to overcome house rules i.e. curfew, support meeting (as required), close supervison. Some people fail for whatever reason and leave these programs and end up at square one. And these the folks that even bothered to try in the first place. There are a number of others whose attitudes prevent them from considering these programs because of paranoia, resentment of being controlled or having to abide by ?house? rules, or even thinking that it isn?t worth it, because they?re going to fail anyway ? so why bother.
The reasons that anyone becomes and stays homeless are very complicated (in the sense that there isn?t one generalized reason). As we can see in the posts above, we are just starting to see some of the reasons - child abuse, mental illness, even just being ornary and saying "screw it, getting a hand out is easier!", etc., etc. There are no easy answers.
You want to help? Don?t just throw change at them (it DOES help but only in the short term and who does it really help in the long run anyway?). Don?t ?spit? on them either. Be pro-active about the situation. Volunteer. Try these places: Diamond Youth Shelter (in San Fran on Haight street towards Golden Gate park), Larkin street youth center (SF again, in the Polk area) or Catholic Charities (in SF?s Tenderloin district above Market street).
Don?t want to be that pro-active? Nothing wrong with that BUT I think that helping to pass legislation to provide adequate funding and locations for these programs will also go a long way to ease the homeless situation. Change of attitude. Not every homeless person is a scammer (though there are quite a few assholes that have and will play the system).
OK. I am too preachy now and I apologize.
I used to lurk on all the AI boards but after reading through this thread, thought I?d contribute something. Why? Because I went through the SF system as a homeless kid (hence those places I noted above). Long story short: There were good people that helped and eventually got me into a community college, than did well enough to transfer to a University on the East Coast (and became BuonRotto?s classmate!!!) Landed a job after graduation, saved enough for the first Kihei iMac DVSE (which was the bomb for awhile) and lurked on AI since.
Maybe I was lucky and in a way I was. All I know is that I sure as heck wouldn?t be here if nobody gave a damn.
OK, OK. Back under rock I go, to lurk, again. Wait! In DC, check out S.O.M.E. (So Others Might Eat), might bump into each other. OK, OK. ?Nuff said.
PS: What Finboy said during my long winded typing.
Half way houses provide a function for helping those that want to be helped. They have programs that help with trying to rehabilitate the homeless by mitigating their transition back into society through job programs and assisted living. "Graduation" from the program usually means having proved that a person is able to maintain a job and place of residence. In theory, it?s like learning to ride a bike, after a while, the training wheels come off and you're good to go. In reality, it is hard to overcome house rules i.e. curfew, support meeting (as required), close supervison. Some people fail for whatever reason and leave these programs and end up at square one. And these the folks that even bothered to try in the first place. There are a number of others whose attitudes prevent them from considering these programs because of paranoia, resentment of being controlled or having to abide by ?house? rules, or even thinking that it isn?t worth it, because they?re going to fail anyway ? so why bother.
The reasons that anyone becomes and stays homeless are very complicated (in the sense that there isn?t one generalized reason). As we can see in the posts above, we are just starting to see some of the reasons - child abuse, mental illness, even just being ornary and saying "screw it, getting a hand out is easier!", etc., etc. There are no easy answers.
You want to help? Don?t just throw change at them (it DOES help but only in the short term and who does it really help in the long run anyway?). Don?t ?spit? on them either. Be pro-active about the situation. Volunteer. Try these places: Diamond Youth Shelter (in San Fran on Haight street towards Golden Gate park), Larkin street youth center (SF again, in the Polk area) or Catholic Charities (in SF?s Tenderloin district above Market street).
Don?t want to be that pro-active? Nothing wrong with that BUT I think that helping to pass legislation to provide adequate funding and locations for these programs will also go a long way to ease the homeless situation. Change of attitude. Not every homeless person is a scammer (though there are quite a few assholes that have and will play the system).
OK. I am too preachy now and I apologize.
I used to lurk on all the AI boards but after reading through this thread, thought I?d contribute something. Why? Because I went through the SF system as a homeless kid (hence those places I noted above). Long story short: There were good people that helped and eventually got me into a community college, than did well enough to transfer to a University on the East Coast (and became BuonRotto?s classmate!!!) Landed a job after graduation, saved enough for the first Kihei iMac DVSE (which was the bomb for awhile) and lurked on AI since.
Maybe I was lucky and in a way I was. All I know is that I sure as heck wouldn?t be here if nobody gave a damn.
OK, OK. Back under rock I go, to lurk, again. Wait! In DC, check out S.O.M.E. (So Others Might Eat), might bump into each other. OK, OK. ?Nuff said.
PS: What Finboy said during my long winded typing.
I think that your post should be required reading for everyone here on AO, and certainly everyone who has contributed to this thread. Thank you for this.
Comments
Originally posted by /mandolux/
Every once and a while when I feel my life is quite shitty - I go to download Los Angeles and at around 5th Street, for two whole block you only see homeless men, women, and kids (not to mention that's the only place where I've seen people selling drugs) and I realize how easy I have it (I may be unemployed and poor - but I still have a ceiling, food, and hope to look for). I hope none of you would ever see life as the man above.
I admire your post. It is very meaningful.
The Dream Center
Fellowship
Originally posted by Randycat99
I think the juncture over which opposing sides seem to be talking past each other here is how to separate the "scammers" and "opportunists" from those who really need help. Clearly, significant amounts of both exist out there. Unfortunately, the scammers and opportunists will inherently sop out the benefits away from the truly needy. So just throwing more compassion and resources at the problem won't solve anything. There needs to be an extra step involving "identification" and subsequent elimination of scammers from the system.
Exactly...
as I said...
That there are able-bodied people and freeloaders that when given a non-judgemental form of charity abuse it.
Charities should be able to judge. Instead they just pass out hand outs. They should be able to say if you are going to stay here, there is an expectation, even if part of that expectation is you will sit through the help you need.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Charities should be able to judge.
Not just to judge, but impose standards upon those that they help. What's wrong with saying that as long as you stay in our shelter, no drinking? Works for the Salvation Army.
All of the homeless, whether or not they could be diagnosed with some disease or mental illness, need help. Or they wouldn't be homeless. Maybe it's training in job skills, or medication. Those are the same thing really.
The disproportionate burden that the homeless represent to some folks (those who have to live in certain areas) is unfair, but there's pretty good evidence that communities can bring a wave of homelessness upon themselves. Either via rent control, or other restrictions on cheap housing, or through excessive handouts without some behavior-changing strings attached. The only solution to the problem of homelessness, for people who aren't homeless, is to move away -- involvement (in charity work) and representation (to change zoning laws and other policies) doesn't really seem to work any more in many places.
That's unfortunate, because there are plenty of homeless folks out there who deserve help and could end the cycle with a push. The systems in place, though, keep that push from happening fast enough many times.
The reasons that anyone becomes and stays homeless are very complicated (in the sense that there isn?t one generalized reason). As we can see in the posts above, we are just starting to see some of the reasons - child abuse, mental illness, even just being ornary and saying "screw it, getting a hand out is easier!", etc., etc. There are no easy answers.
You want to help? Don?t just throw change at them (it DOES help but only in the short term and who does it really help in the long run anyway?). Don?t ?spit? on them either. Be pro-active about the situation. Volunteer. Try these places: Diamond Youth Shelter (in San Fran on Haight street towards Golden Gate park), Larkin street youth center (SF again, in the Polk area) or Catholic Charities (in SF?s Tenderloin district above Market street).
Don?t want to be that pro-active? Nothing wrong with that BUT I think that helping to pass legislation to provide adequate funding and locations for these programs will also go a long way to ease the homeless situation. Change of attitude. Not every homeless person is a scammer (though there are quite a few assholes that have and will play the system).
OK. I am too preachy now and I apologize.
I used to lurk on all the AI boards but after reading through this thread, thought I?d contribute something. Why? Because I went through the SF system as a homeless kid (hence those places I noted above). Long story short: There were good people that helped and eventually got me into a community college, than did well enough to transfer to a University on the East Coast (and became BuonRotto?s classmate!!!) Landed a job after graduation, saved enough for the first Kihei iMac DVSE (which was the bomb for awhile) and lurked on AI since.
Maybe I was lucky and in a way I was. All I know is that I sure as heck wouldn?t be here if nobody gave a damn.
OK, OK. Back under rock I go, to lurk, again. Wait! In DC, check out S.O.M.E. (So Others Might Eat), might bump into each other. OK, OK. ?Nuff said.
PS: What Finboy said during my long winded typing.
Originally posted by Meaningless
Half way houses provide a function for helping those that want to be helped. They have programs that help with trying to rehabilitate the homeless by mitigating their transition back into society through job programs and assisted living. "Graduation" from the program usually means having proved that a person is able to maintain a job and place of residence. In theory, it?s like learning to ride a bike, after a while, the training wheels come off and you're good to go. In reality, it is hard to overcome house rules i.e. curfew, support meeting (as required), close supervison. Some people fail for whatever reason and leave these programs and end up at square one. And these the folks that even bothered to try in the first place. There are a number of others whose attitudes prevent them from considering these programs because of paranoia, resentment of being controlled or having to abide by ?house? rules, or even thinking that it isn?t worth it, because they?re going to fail anyway ? so why bother.
The reasons that anyone becomes and stays homeless are very complicated (in the sense that there isn?t one generalized reason). As we can see in the posts above, we are just starting to see some of the reasons - child abuse, mental illness, even just being ornary and saying "screw it, getting a hand out is easier!", etc., etc. There are no easy answers.
You want to help? Don?t just throw change at them (it DOES help but only in the short term and who does it really help in the long run anyway?). Don?t ?spit? on them either. Be pro-active about the situation. Volunteer. Try these places: Diamond Youth Shelter (in San Fran on Haight street towards Golden Gate park), Larkin street youth center (SF again, in the Polk area) or Catholic Charities (in SF?s Tenderloin district above Market street).
Don?t want to be that pro-active? Nothing wrong with that BUT I think that helping to pass legislation to provide adequate funding and locations for these programs will also go a long way to ease the homeless situation. Change of attitude. Not every homeless person is a scammer (though there are quite a few assholes that have and will play the system).
OK. I am too preachy now and I apologize.
I used to lurk on all the AI boards but after reading through this thread, thought I?d contribute something. Why? Because I went through the SF system as a homeless kid (hence those places I noted above). Long story short: There were good people that helped and eventually got me into a community college, than did well enough to transfer to a University on the East Coast (and became BuonRotto?s classmate!!!) Landed a job after graduation, saved enough for the first Kihei iMac DVSE (which was the bomb for awhile) and lurked on AI since.
Maybe I was lucky and in a way I was. All I know is that I sure as heck wouldn?t be here if nobody gave a damn.
OK, OK. Back under rock I go, to lurk, again. Wait! In DC, check out S.O.M.E. (So Others Might Eat), might bump into each other. OK, OK. ?Nuff said.
PS: What Finboy said during my long winded typing.
I think that your post should be required reading for everyone here on AO, and certainly everyone who has contributed to this thread. Thank you for this.