That was my first thought, as well. But really, outside of Office and Windows, what has MS been able to do successfully? We KNOW that there's no real money to be made in online music sales and unless MS can come out with some other money-maker to piggy back on this service, it's going to be fruitless. Apple just needs to make sure they don't get complacent with easy victories over the current "competition" (if you can call it that) when the big-boys (aka MS and Dell) come into the picture.
I just don't see the appeal of it. They don't have a player (well, yet anyway...) and does anyone think they'll offer a better/wider selection than Apple's store?
Now that iTunes is out for Windows, the Apple store supports certificates, allowances, does the whole audio book thing, is so easy to use, etc. and the iPod is THE player of choice...who cares?
It would be like going two steps backward. I know quite a few hardcore PC types who have bought an iPod, downloaded iTunes and have told me that they think Apple's set-up is great and they have no desire to fool with anything else.
It's that "whole widget" approach, illustrated beautifully here: hardware, software and so forth, working wonderfully together with a minimum of restrictions, fuss and headache.
I hope you're right but people don't often look for better things and use what comes on their computer. If MS loads this service on boxs people might just use that. However, I agree Apple has a bit of an edge with the iPod and users in place. This might hurt other services more. I think the thing that worries me is that the article claims MS might try to undercut prices.
I hope you're right but people don't often look for better things and use what comes on their computer. If MS loads this service on boxs people might just use that. However, I agree Apple has a bit of an edge with the iPod and users in place. This might hurt other services more. I think the thing that worries me is that the article claims MS might try to undercut prices.
I think that people who use iPods are more savvy than most when it comes to using other services. If you've got an iPod, you've moved away from the "what's installed on your computer" and on to educating yourself to what's best. Sure, there will be people who don't see what else is out there, but they're also the people who wouldn't buy iPods anyway. Let MS have the idiots, we'll take the smart ones.
All the more reason for Apple to get off their butt and make damn sure that THEIR service is widely known-about, stays ahead of the curve with features/enhancements the others don't have, etc.
But the first thing I mention is most important: as nice-looking and snazzy as they are, I know for a fact there are A LOT of people out there not quite sure what all those dancing silhouettes on green and pink backgrounds are all about.
At some point, like it or not, Apple is going to have to make a spot that makes it VERY clear to everyone what exactly an iPod is. What it does. What iTunes does/is. And how it all works together with the online music store. And what makes their approach unique (and, IMO, superior). People, for the most part, have NO idea about the book thing, the allowances, the gift certificate function, the "one click" ease, the previews, the very liberal licensing/usage policy, the easy-to-navigate layout and search functions, the artists playlists, the exclusive tracks, the seamless trio of the store/iPod/iTunes working so beautifully together, etc. And that's just the STORE. The iPod and iTunes themselves are packing a whole other list of coolness people should know about!
Otherwise, they're going to simply let a TON of potential customers/users slip through the cracks because, once again, they've pinned their hopes on nice-looking but EMPTY and UNINFORMATIVE spots that lack any meat and taters for the average Joe who MIGHT be curious and buy an iPod and download iTunes...IF they knew what it was.
And with the holidays coming up, I can think of no better time or opportunity for this to happen. A bit maddening to sit and watch yet another holiday season go by without Apple going out of their way to make their presence known in a meaningful way.
At some point, like it or not, Apple is going to have to make a spot that makes it VERY clear to everyone what exactly an iPod is. What it does. What iTunes does/is. And how it all works together with the online music store.
I think that's the biggest problem. Apple does not have very good Ads. They aren't clear enough.
Here is the problem with this. What does Bill Gates / Microsoft love more than anything? Thats right, $$$. We all know that there is no money to be made in this business. Jobs claims less than a dime a song for each download. The price would be too steep for MS, they might **GASP** loose money!!! Also, they still have to make deals with record labels, something it takes magic to do, not a bunch of corporate lawyers. Finally, can we say: Anti-trust? I know a lot of lawyers that can. If MS does introduce this music service, it will be worthless, just like the rest of their products.
However, as so many of ya'll have stated previously, Apple needs to market the crap out of the iPod/iTMS. Get more people hooked on it before it's too late. www.ipodrocks.com is a huge step in the right direction.
I fail to understand how exactly MS will undercut Apple on price. The problem for MS is that there are viable alternatives to any service that they set up and so they don't have leverage to get lower prices. Sure they can demand lower prices, but how in the world are they going to get the labels to accept less money when the labels are getting money already from Apple and others?
The only thing that I can think of would be for MS to try to bundle their music service with the OS. They could push for better song prices because their service has better coverage. Of course, this would get them sued instantly by everyone else in the marketplace.
My guess is that MS is doing their typical thing in that they feel they need to get their foot in the door. Ever since Netscape, MS hasn't hesitated to throw money at a new market.
Why? I don't see why this is any more threatening than Napster.
Well several reasons why have been given. If the bulk of new PC users take to the MS music store that would be a problem for Apple and MS may undercut prices. A second problem. I'm not saying it will hurt Apple for sure, but it will make their job (Jobs job) more difficult. It really does come down to how they promote the iPod/ ITMS or lack there of.
I think that's the biggest problem. Apple does not have very good Ads. They aren't clear enough.
The ads make it clear that the iPod is cool. Kids love cool. It is called marketing. Having some electrical engineer with triple thick glasses, a procket protector, high water pants, and a nicely starched white shirt and black tie talk about the specs of an iPod (RPM of the HD platter, the luminosity of the LCD with backlighting on) would not sell iPods.
That was my first thought, as well. But really, outside of Office and Windows, what has MS been able to do successfully? We KNOW that there's no real money to be made in online music sales and unless MS can come out with some other money-maker to piggy back on this service, it's going to be fruitless. Apple just needs to make sure they don't get complacent with easy victories over the current "competition" (if you can call it that) when the big-boys (aka MS and Dell) come into the picture.
That is a common misconception of MS. MS has done several other things quite well.
I fail to understand how exactly MS will undercut Apple on price.
I'm not sure either, but my guess is they would absorb the costs and more would go to the labels. Again nothing may come of this, but it's Apple's battle to loose. Hopefully they won't.
I wonder if its a music service more like AOL's offering for its subscriber base than say ITMS... but not that ITMS and aol have it going on... I think just like MSN was late to catch up with AOL... hopefully it will be the same scenario with MSMS to ITMS
MS getting on board after the fact should not come as any surprise. They are never innovate...just immitate.
Regardless, they should be taken seriously.
And the fact that Apple has an iPod won't mean a thing to MS.
They will make their service PC centric and connect to everything else. Yes, the iPod is the biggest selling MP3 player, but there are many cheaper PC players out there.
That is a common misconception of MS. MS has done several other things quite well.
Their Dev tools are excellent.
The XBox has more US marketshare than Nintendo.
Just two nice examples of MS doing well.
I'd like to see those XBox numbers. And their Dev tools may be "market" leaders, but is that market indicative of the consumer market? I think not. And excellence != wide-adoption, as we well know.
The ads make it clear that the iPod is cool. Kids love cool. It is called marketing. Having some electrical engineer with triple thick glasses, a procket protector, high water pants, and a nicely starched white shirt and black tie talk about the specs of an iPod (RPM of the HD platter, the luminosity of the LCD with backlighting on) would not sell iPods.
If I recall correctly, the iPod was rated the coolest product on the market, at least in the US, for a while. Now all Apple has to do is get it out there more and more and the kids will be all over the iPod like a fat kid on a cupcake. And fat kids really love cupcakes .
The ads make it clear that the iPod is cool. Kids love cool. It is called marketing. Having some electrical engineer with triple thick glasses, a procket protector, high water pants, and a nicely starched white shirt and black tie talk about the specs of an iPod (RPM of the HD platter, the luminosity of the LCD with backlighting on) would not sell iPods.
Ohmigosh...give me a complete break!
Did ANYONE here suggest THAT approach in any way whatsoever? That would be quite a lame, boring commercial...good thing no one here called for that...you painted that goofy, cliched image all on your own.
Is it truly an "all or nothing" game (gotta be vague to be "cool and hip"...can't POSSIBLY marry coolness with impact/info?). To some of you, I guess so...
It's done ALL THE TIME...that's called marketing too. There are entire companies/agencies that exist for this sole purpose: to make stuff look good AND come across somewhat informative or packed with SOME meat and potatos...hell, even a little.
So...dancing silhouettes on a colored background is, apparently, the ONLY way to "market" the iPod, iTunes and iTMS, huh?
The interesting thing is that Apple is to some extent insulated from this, because they don't handle WMA at all. If you're already using a WMA-based store with Windows Media Player and some WMA-savvy music player, you can easily make the leap. But if you like iTunes and your iPod, you can't jump nearly as easily.
What MS' entry is more likely to do is compete with all the other services that offer WMA. I'm not sure whether they understand that they'll probably just drive a lot of people to AAC, if they don't drive them under completely.
MS is definitely a force to be taken seriously, just because of their size. But if they've found a way to make money at this they haven't revealed it. If they just got into this because the cool kids are doing it, without paying attention to how or why, they might end up losing out and accelerating the demise of iTMS' competitors.
Comments
Originally posted by imacFP
All I can say is oh boy. Bad news for Apple.
MS music sevice
That was my first thought, as well. But really, outside of Office and Windows, what has MS been able to do successfully? We KNOW that there's no real money to be made in online music sales and unless MS can come out with some other money-maker to piggy back on this service, it's going to be fruitless. Apple just needs to make sure they don't get complacent with easy victories over the current "competition" (if you can call it that) when the big-boys (aka MS and Dell) come into the picture.
Now that iTunes is out for Windows, the Apple store supports certificates, allowances, does the whole audio book thing, is so easy to use, etc. and the iPod is THE player of choice...who cares?
It would be like going two steps backward. I know quite a few hardcore PC types who have bought an iPod, downloaded iTunes and have told me that they think Apple's set-up is great and they have no desire to fool with anything else.
It's that "whole widget" approach, illustrated beautifully here: hardware, software and so forth, working wonderfully together with a minimum of restrictions, fuss and headache.
That trumps most everything else, IMO.
Originally posted by imacFP
I hope you're right but people don't often look for better things and use what comes on their computer. If MS loads this service on boxs people might just use that. However, I agree Apple has a bit of an edge with the iPod and users in place. This might hurt other services more. I think the thing that worries me is that the article claims MS might try to undercut prices.
I think that people who use iPods are more savvy than most when it comes to using other services. If you've got an iPod, you've moved away from the "what's installed on your computer" and on to educating yourself to what's best. Sure, there will be people who don't see what else is out there, but they're also the people who wouldn't buy iPods anyway. Let MS have the idiots, we'll take the smart ones.
But the first thing I mention is most important: as nice-looking and snazzy as they are, I know for a fact there are A LOT of people out there not quite sure what all those dancing silhouettes on green and pink backgrounds are all about.
At some point, like it or not, Apple is going to have to make a spot that makes it VERY clear to everyone what exactly an iPod is. What it does. What iTunes does/is. And how it all works together with the online music store. And what makes their approach unique (and, IMO, superior). People, for the most part, have NO idea about the book thing, the allowances, the gift certificate function, the "one click" ease, the previews, the very liberal licensing/usage policy, the easy-to-navigate layout and search functions, the artists playlists, the exclusive tracks, the seamless trio of the store/iPod/iTunes working so beautifully together, etc. And that's just the STORE. The iPod and iTunes themselves are packing a whole other list of coolness people should know about!
Otherwise, they're going to simply let a TON of potential customers/users slip through the cracks because, once again, they've pinned their hopes on nice-looking but EMPTY and UNINFORMATIVE spots that lack any meat and taters for the average Joe who MIGHT be curious and buy an iPod and download iTunes...IF they knew what it was.
And with the holidays coming up, I can think of no better time or opportunity for this to happen. A bit maddening to sit and watch yet another holiday season go by without Apple going out of their way to make their presence known in a meaningful way.
Originally posted by pscates
At some point, like it or not, Apple is going to have to make a spot that makes it VERY clear to everyone what exactly an iPod is. What it does. What iTunes does/is. And how it all works together with the online music store.
I think that's the biggest problem. Apple does not have very good Ads. They aren't clear enough.
However, as so many of ya'll have stated previously, Apple needs to market the crap out of the iPod/iTMS. Get more people hooked on it before it's too late. www.ipodrocks.com is a huge step in the right direction.
Originally posted by imacFP
All I can say is oh boy. Bad news for Apple.
MS music sevice
Why? I don't see why this is any more threatening than Napster.
The only thing that I can think of would be for MS to try to bundle their music service with the OS. They could push for better song prices because their service has better coverage. Of course, this would get them sued instantly by everyone else in the marketplace.
My guess is that MS is doing their typical thing in that they feel they need to get their foot in the door. Ever since Netscape, MS hasn't hesitated to throw money at a new market.
Originally posted by Placebo
Why? I don't see why this is any more threatening than Napster.
Well several reasons why have been given. If the bulk of new PC users take to the MS music store that would be a problem for Apple and MS may undercut prices. A second problem. I'm not saying it will hurt Apple for sure, but it will make their job (Jobs job) more difficult. It really does come down to how they promote the iPod/ ITMS or lack there of.
Originally posted by imacFP
I think that's the biggest problem. Apple does not have very good Ads. They aren't clear enough.
The ads make it clear that the iPod is cool. Kids love cool. It is called marketing. Having some electrical engineer with triple thick glasses, a procket protector, high water pants, and a nicely starched white shirt and black tie talk about the specs of an iPod (RPM of the HD platter, the luminosity of the LCD with backlighting on) would not sell iPods.
Originally posted by pensieve
That was my first thought, as well. But really, outside of Office and Windows, what has MS been able to do successfully? We KNOW that there's no real money to be made in online music sales and unless MS can come out with some other money-maker to piggy back on this service, it's going to be fruitless. Apple just needs to make sure they don't get complacent with easy victories over the current "competition" (if you can call it that) when the big-boys (aka MS and Dell) come into the picture.
That is a common misconception of MS. MS has done several other things quite well.
Their Dev tools are excellent.
The XBox has more US marketshare than Nintendo.
Just two nice examples of MS doing well.
Originally posted by Yevgeny
I fail to understand how exactly MS will undercut Apple on price.
I'm not sure either, but my guess is they would absorb the costs and more would go to the labels. Again nothing may come of this, but it's Apple's battle to loose. Hopefully they won't.
Regardless, they should be taken seriously.
And the fact that Apple has an iPod won't mean a thing to MS.
They will make their service PC centric and connect to everything else. Yes, the iPod is the biggest selling MP3 player, but there are many cheaper PC players out there.
Originally posted by Yevgeny
That is a common misconception of MS. MS has done several other things quite well.
Their Dev tools are excellent.
The XBox has more US marketshare than Nintendo.
Just two nice examples of MS doing well.
I'd like to see those XBox numbers. And their Dev tools may be "market" leaders, but is that market indicative of the consumer market? I think not. And excellence != wide-adoption, as we well know.
Originally posted by Yevgeny
The ads make it clear that the iPod is cool. Kids love cool. It is called marketing. Having some electrical engineer with triple thick glasses, a procket protector, high water pants, and a nicely starched white shirt and black tie talk about the specs of an iPod (RPM of the HD platter, the luminosity of the LCD with backlighting on) would not sell iPods.
If I recall correctly, the iPod was rated the coolest product on the market, at least in the US, for a while. Now all Apple has to do is get it out there more and more and the kids will be all over the iPod like a fat kid on a cupcake. And fat kids really love cupcakes
Originally posted by Yevgeny
The ads make it clear that the iPod is cool. Kids love cool. It is called marketing. Having some electrical engineer with triple thick glasses, a procket protector, high water pants, and a nicely starched white shirt and black tie talk about the specs of an iPod (RPM of the HD platter, the luminosity of the LCD with backlighting on) would not sell iPods.
Ohmigosh...give me a complete break!
Did ANYONE here suggest THAT approach in any way whatsoever? That would be quite a lame, boring commercial...good thing no one here called for that...you painted that goofy, cliched image all on your own.
Is it truly an "all or nothing" game (gotta be vague to be "cool and hip"...can't POSSIBLY marry coolness with impact/info?). To some of you, I guess so...
It's done ALL THE TIME...that's called marketing too. There are entire companies/agencies that exist for this sole purpose: to make stuff look good AND come across somewhat informative or packed with SOME meat and potatos...hell, even a little.
So...dancing silhouettes on a colored background is, apparently, the ONLY way to "market" the iPod, iTunes and iTMS, huh?
Man, I sure hope not...
What MS' entry is more likely to do is compete with all the other services that offer WMA. I'm not sure whether they understand that they'll probably just drive a lot of people to AAC, if they don't drive them under completely.
MS is definitely a force to be taken seriously, just because of their size. But if they've found a way to make money at this they haven't revealed it. If they just got into this because the cool kids are doing it, without paying attention to how or why, they might end up losing out and accelerating the demise of iTMS' competitors.