As to buying a BMW from a reseller, Mini Coopers are sold through BMW dealerships currently.
You just spent an incredible amount of time trying to prove a point that wasn't even true. Actually, you made the exact opposite point. BMW only sells MINI Coopers through BMW dealerships because they want complete control of the buying experience. That's why you can't buy a new MINI from anyone but BMW.
I'm sure some of Apple's resellers have been very loyal through some very tough times, but if the fact of the matter is that they aren't doing a good enough job at getting boxes out the door, they need to go. I don't go to my local Apple place for ANYTHING, partly because they're hardly ever open, but also because they're in a crappy strip mall on the south side of town, and their prices are outrageous. I considered buying my PowerBook there, but after coming in one day and not getting any help from anyone there, I reconsidered.
This shows how Apple mistreats not only their resellers, but now innovative employees as well as service centers. When and how will it stop is the question....
Advocate, I don't blame you for not frequenting your crappy local Apple reseller. Why would you? How long has it been in business, I wonder? Usually, stores like that go out of business all on their own, without any assistance from difficuties in their dealings with their suppliers. If they HAVE been in business for a while, doesn't it make you wonder what has happened to them now?
And how exactly does cutting margins = increasing market share?
There are a multitude of reasons Apple has such a small market share with such a superior product, but small margins do not appear to be one of them.
Um... smaller margins lower prices? There are indeed a multitude of reasons that Apple has a small market share, and large margins is at the top of the list. Not that lowering prices now would have a major effect (it might have some, it might have a lot). But historically the reason for PC dominance in the late '80s early '90s when Apple had a real chance to grow was the high price of Mac systems. With lower prices (and a few other things) Apple could have easily hit 25% market share by 1994.
Apple is now cutting RESELLER margins to all time lows. Are you suggesting that Apple's OWN large margins over the past have contributed to their having such high prices, relative to the other computers out there, and consequently was the major contributing factor to their small market share during the computer boom? I have been informed that their margins were comparable to the other computer companies during that time--Apple computers are just more expensive to manufacture. Is this information erroneous?
PC's and Apples share many things in common. PCI, IDE cables, Hard Drives... many things are shared in common. The only real differences are that they use a different chip and chip architecture. Ethernet Chips, Firewire, USB, ect.. are all the same both on PC and Mac.
Honestly, having less resellers will only hurt apple. People are wary about buying on the internet more so then ever before, due to the fact that so many Americans are affected by credit card fraud.
I live in Michigan. I've been to about 7 different malls here... not the really pricey onces out in Oakland County, but over a large area... 5 different cities to be exact. I haven't seen one store that sells Apple. CompUSA is the only one I've ever seen sell Apple.
If apple creats less resellers, I think it will hurt their overall sales in general. People like to buy a product they see all over. It gives them the illusion that they are comparison shopping, and that it is a hit.
AI have been informed that their margins were comparable to the other computer companies during that time--Apple computers are just more expensive to manufacture. Is this information erroneous?
At the time the margins were comparable given the extra work Apple had to do to develop the OS, use non-standard parts etc. Had Apple been willing to cut its margins below that of the general industry and accept smaller profits I think their market share would have grown.
Did anyone really expect the Mac Classic with an 8 MHz 68000 and a 9" black and white screen to sell for $999 in 1991 when a 20MHz VGA 286 could be had for the same price? Could Apple have sold the LC for $1599 in '91? Would it have been impossible to address more than 10MB of RAM in that thing, or was Apple protecting IIsi sales? Could they have just repackaged the IIci and sold it for $1499 instead of creating the limited LCIII in '93?
I think that anything that would have lowered prices in those years would have been a positive influence on the bottom line.
Labor is free? Please explain. If you are talking about folks working on either Windows or Mac OS, aren't they paid employees? Or, are you referring to employees, like the one referenced in this article, whose ideas are ripped off because they ARE employees?
Labor is free? Please explain. If you are talking about folks working on either Windows or Mac OS, aren't they paid employees? Or, are you referring to employees, like the one referenced in this article, whose ideas are ripped off because they ARE employees?
I was being sarcastic. scavenger is a windows troll and I was pointing out the flaws in his thinking because some of OS X is open-source, development is cheap.
Just becuase I use windows, and see that it has merits, I'm a troll... just becuase I don't worship apple, I am a troll. I will say it again. I will be buying an iBook as soon as my supervisor swaps hers for a new PB. I'm buying it becuase I need a light and powerful notebook. I wouldn't mind also having a Unix platform either.
I use Windows, Gentoo Linux, and soon to be OSX.
Just because I see that Linux and Windows have some higher points doesn't mean that I'm a troll.
The fact that you declare me a troll since I don't think OSX is the greatest thing ever, is really biased. OSX has a lot of flaws. Finder crashing is horrible, considering you will find alot of places where Windows is the dominate networking technology, especially in alot of smaller start ups.
I have given nothing but constructive view points on both PCs and Macs, if you are too close minded to see that then I pity you. The only time I've just hated something, is quicktime, I've hated it for the past 10 years, and I don't plan to change my mind now.
Developement is cheaper if you are using opensource... you have more programers that you don't have to pay, you cannot deny that it is cheaper.
And it's cheaper for MS to swipe ideas from Apple than to pay the creative people who think them up, too. I'd say it's even in the "get what you can for free" department. Only Apple gives back to the community they get from (KHTML, for example).
Microsoft is a business. They want profit they want bottom line, they want to own what they create. They are no differnt then most of the business that create and sell products. If apple wouldn't of been so generous in the past maybe they wouldn't of lost their GUI idea to MS in the past. Its a business you can't say that MS is being greedy, they are better then most of the Fortune 500 Companies.
Ah, and now we get back to the original point of this thread; Apple behaving as a big business. It appears that most Apple enthusiasts feel their latest tactics are "about time"--no more Mr. Nice Guy--let's do whatever it takes to go for the bottom line--so that we can, what? Get a bigger piece of the market share?
How has Apple "been so generous in the past"? As I am relatively new to computers in general--Apple has been my first and only platform--I am ignorant about this history. This may help me get a perspective on user response to the current situation regarding Apple.
Back when the Personal Computer came out, Apple was the leader in this market becuase IBM didn't think people would want a Personal Computer, instead everything was done in throught a terminal connected to a Mainframe manufactured by IBM in most cases. Well anyway, near this time Xerox developed what we know as the "Graphical User Interface" and the "Mouse" Xerox didn't think these would become big hits and they sold them to Apple. At this same time, Microsoft was licensing DOS to companies. I can't exactly remember what happened but somehow Microsoft and Apple had a partner ship for a while, and they basicly stole the GUI and mouse idea. It's been forever since I read about this this, so excuse me if its wrong or has errors, feel free to correct as I would like to know myself.
Anyway, cutting out retailers isn't going to help apple. Seems to me that people got pissed when Apple releases a new product and the retailers are still selling older ones, like with the Dual G5's and stuff.. well all I say to them is did you research what you were going to buy? Did you check different places? Did you find out which was the latest one. This is directed towards the people that bought an older Mac with 10.2 on it and complained it didn't have 10.3, the retailer can't just get rid of his older model's and replace with newer ones, they have to sell them. This is more directed at bad purchesing on the consumer's part.
I would think more retailers would help apple look more popular and more wide spread and encourage growth.
I have yet to understand your issue meilleure ami. Nowhere in the article you linked to does it say that Apple is cutting off it's resellers.
Quote:
Apple is beefing up its sales force with representatives tasked with selling directly to large accounts, sources said.
Sources confirmed that Apple has divided its new direct sales force into fifteen regions, each with the goal of developing $5 million in annual business. With this sales force, Apple intends to target traditional print design and creative customers. The company also plans to take on enterprise markets.
The rest is pure speculation - typical modern day journalism unfortunately - 10% fact and 90% intended controversy to keep the readers entertained. Never mind that no one wins by this, but that's another subject.
Back to the subject. Resellers only play a role within an established market, for without an established market resellers have no one to sell it to. Get it? For resellers to exist in the first place there has to be an establishing market there for them to sell it to. The keyword here is "established." You say Apple already has an established market? Oh no they don't. At 3% market share one cannot say it's an established market. Apple does have a few strong areas such as print and media but even those key areas are being eroded by Windows. The enterprise market has never even been close to anything resembling an established market by Apple.
So your fears will be realized if Apple does not succeed in re-establishing itself within it's key customers and establishing itself in new markets for there will be no resellers for sure if Apple fails.
Now that everything is in place, it's time to sell sell sell.
Comments
Originally posted by meilleure ami
As to buying a BMW from a reseller, Mini Coopers are sold through BMW dealerships currently.
You just spent an incredible amount of time trying to prove a point that wasn't even true. Actually, you made the exact opposite point. BMW only sells MINI Coopers through BMW dealerships because they want complete control of the buying experience. That's why you can't buy a new MINI from anyone but BMW.
I'm sure some of Apple's resellers have been very loyal through some very tough times, but if the fact of the matter is that they aren't doing a good enough job at getting boxes out the door, they need to go. I don't go to my local Apple place for ANYTHING, partly because they're hardly ever open, but also because they're in a crappy strip mall on the south side of town, and their prices are outrageous. I considered buying my PowerBook there, but after coming in one day and not getting any help from anyone there, I reconsidered.
There are a multitude of reasons Apple has such a small market share with such a superior product, but small margins do not appear to be one of them.
Check out these latest articles:
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/netflixfanatic.html
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/g5enclosure.html
This shows how Apple mistreats not only their resellers, but now innovative employees as well as service centers. When and how will it stop is the question....
Originally posted by meilleure ami
And how exactly does cutting margins = increasing market share?
There are a multitude of reasons Apple has such a small market share with such a superior product, but small margins do not appear to be one of them.
Um... smaller margins lower prices? There are indeed a multitude of reasons that Apple has a small market share, and large margins is at the top of the list. Not that lowering prices now would have a major effect (it might have some, it might have a lot). But historically the reason for PC dominance in the late '80s early '90s when Apple had a real chance to grow was the high price of Mac systems. With lower prices (and a few other things) Apple could have easily hit 25% market share by 1994.
Honestly, having less resellers will only hurt apple. People are wary about buying on the internet more so then ever before, due to the fact that so many Americans are affected by credit card fraud.
I live in Michigan. I've been to about 7 different malls here... not the really pricey onces out in Oakland County, but over a large area... 5 different cities to be exact. I haven't seen one store that sells Apple. CompUSA is the only one I've ever seen sell Apple.
If apple creats less resellers, I think it will hurt their overall sales in general. People like to buy a product they see all over. It gives them the illusion that they are comparison shopping, and that it is a hit.
Excuse my grammar and spelling, its late.
Originally posted by meilleure ami
AI have been informed that their margins were comparable to the other computer companies during that time--Apple computers are just more expensive to manufacture. Is this information erroneous?
At the time the margins were comparable given the extra work Apple had to do to develop the OS, use non-standard parts etc. Had Apple been willing to cut its margins below that of the general industry and accept smaller profits I think their market share would have grown.
Did anyone really expect the Mac Classic with an 8 MHz 68000 and a 9" black and white screen to sell for $999 in 1991 when a 20MHz VGA 286 could be had for the same price? Could Apple have sold the LC for $1599 in '91? Would it have been impossible to address more than 10MB of RAM in that thing, or was Apple protecting IIsi sales? Could they have just repackaged the IIci and sold it for $1499 instead of creating the limited LCIII in '93?
I think that anything that would have lowered prices in those years would have been a positive influence on the bottom line.
Originally posted by scavanger
OSX uses alot of open source software... I would be willing to be R&D on Windows is higher then that of OSX.
Because labor is free.
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/netflixfanatic.html
Originally posted by meilleure ami
Labor is free? Please explain. If you are talking about folks working on either Windows or Mac OS, aren't they paid employees? Or, are you referring to employees, like the one referenced in this article, whose ideas are ripped off because they ARE employees?
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/netflixfanatic.html
I was being sarcastic. scavenger is a windows troll and I was pointing out the flaws in his thinking because some of OS X is open-source, development is cheap.
Originally posted by scavanger
I was refering to alot of the Open Sourced stuff, like Apache, ect.. that is free labor.
Apache is free, but what about integrating it into the OS? That's free too?
I use Windows, Gentoo Linux, and soon to be OSX.
Just because I see that Linux and Windows have some higher points doesn't mean that I'm a troll.
The fact that you declare me a troll since I don't think OSX is the greatest thing ever, is really biased. OSX has a lot of flaws. Finder crashing is horrible, considering you will find alot of places where Windows is the dominate networking technology, especially in alot of smaller start ups.
I have given nothing but constructive view points on both PCs and Macs, if you are too close minded to see that then I pity you. The only time I've just hated something, is quicktime, I've hated it for the past 10 years, and I don't plan to change my mind now.
Originally posted by scavanger
Developement is cheaper if you are using opensource... you have more programers that you don't have to pay, you cannot deny that it is cheaper.
And it's cheaper for MS to swipe ideas from Apple than to pay the creative people who think them up, too. I'd say it's even in the "get what you can for free" department. Only Apple gives back to the community they get from (KHTML, for example).
How has Apple "been so generous in the past"? As I am relatively new to computers in general--Apple has been my first and only platform--I am ignorant about this history. This may help me get a perspective on user response to the current situation regarding Apple.
Anyway, cutting out retailers isn't going to help apple. Seems to me that people got pissed when Apple releases a new product and the retailers are still selling older ones, like with the Dual G5's and stuff.. well all I say to them is did you research what you were going to buy? Did you check different places? Did you find out which was the latest one. This is directed towards the people that bought an older Mac with 10.2 on it and complained it didn't have 10.3, the retailer can't just get rid of his older model's and replace with newer ones, they have to sell them. This is more directed at bad purchesing on the consumer's part.
I would think more retailers would help apple look more popular and more wide spread and encourage growth.
Apple is beefing up its sales force with representatives tasked with selling directly to large accounts, sources said.
Sources confirmed that Apple has divided its new direct sales force into fifteen regions, each with the goal of developing $5 million in annual business. With this sales force, Apple intends to target traditional print design and creative customers. The company also plans to take on enterprise markets.
The rest is pure speculation - typical modern day journalism unfortunately - 10% fact and 90% intended controversy to keep the readers entertained. Never mind that no one wins by this, but that's another subject.
Back to the subject. Resellers only play a role within an established market, for without an established market resellers have no one to sell it to. Get it? For resellers to exist in the first place there has to be an establishing market there for them to sell it to. The keyword here is "established." You say Apple already has an established market? Oh no they don't. At 3% market share one cannot say it's an established market. Apple does have a few strong areas such as print and media but even those key areas are being eroded by Windows. The enterprise market has never even been close to anything resembling an established market by Apple.
So your fears will be realized if Apple does not succeed in re-establishing itself within it's key customers and establishing itself in new markets for there will be no resellers for sure if Apple fails.
Now that everything is in place, it's time to sell sell sell.