I presented an essay printed via a dot matrix printer...back in 1986.
My professor who was from the "old school" picked it up and after a few moments of close inspection, waved it in the air, cleared his throat and with all the gravitas he could muster he said.
"This is the sort of thing that k-k-k-k-killed off latin and heralded the f-f-f-f-f-all of Rome"
I was accused once as well. It seems like this is a pretty common thing based off the replies to these forums.
It really surprises me. I've heard that you're not even supposed to accuse a student of cheating unless you have absolute proof, because the teacher (or more likely, the school) could get in legal trouble. So even if you think you see someone looking at someone else's test, you can't really do anything because there's really no proof.
i was also a good little boy and never plagiarized in college, well for myself. i did write stuff for others, not english so much, but in my native language: c. i always felt dirty about it. the money made up for that feeling; its hard to resist a twenty when i put in 5-10 minutes worth of work. i tried to encourage people not to use my services, particularly when they were cs type majors. i mean, what the hell are you going to college for when i'm writing your fucking comp sci programs? now, when people ask me, i purposely don't give them full programs, but i try to give them enough so the nature of the program is obvious, and the tough parts are more easily approachable.
i didn't realize that teachers actually read home work and papers though. i remember, quite distinctly, that i "accidentally" handed in my math homework to my biology "teacher" (ok, it was hs, so the standards were lower i guess). he, in his typical fashion, passed it back the next day with a check-plus. It wasn't until i got it back that i realized it was math. i was quite confused, and elated (because, as it turns out, i hadn't done my bio hw, and perchance my math teacher didn't collect hw that week).
a similar situation arose in college though. a small team, about 5 students of which i was a member, had to write a long project over pretty much the whole term. every week there were certain pieces due, one of which was always a status report, and they'd be reviewed and graded. the teacher didn't care at all about the technical details of the program. despite what seemed to be written in the course description, i dont think he ever read our code; it was beautiful code too. ours was well beyond the others (i say this not even trying to be self gratifying, but genuinely, ours met and exceeded all the requirements, while the other groups barely met them). we didn't gain much benefit from our technical prowess though. we lost points for spelling on the status report. and the worst part is, the prof basically told us he didn't read it. he said, "i should even see those swiggly red lines when i open it in word." one of the team members hinted at the fact that we dont think he read it, and he said "i'm very busy. i see those damned swiggly lines and i take off points." they're fucking acronyms and shit. jesus christ. i think i got like a C in that class, and it really pissed me off.
so, in conclusion, i think the best option would be to ignore the papers. if thats not feasible, have a ta read and grade them. judge your students solely on speling.
Are you using anything like turnitin.com? You will need an electronic copy though to submit it through this method.
We're currently negotiating with them for a trial service, but the problem is that they want a wide range of professors from several disciplines (and hopefully the sciences) to contribute, which makes it difficult. The service is pretty expensive, too, and we just want to see how well it works.
Several years ago, while in grad school, I argued that the easiest thing to do would be to set up an old PC with something like moveable type (a database-driven web publishing tool), require professors to load up the essays they receive, and thus have them in a searchable text format available via a web interface. I still think something like this would work, and would allow us to keep a nice database of papers turned in. And it'd be searchable, of course.
It really surprises me. I've heard that you're not even supposed to accuse a student of cheating unless you have absolute proof, because the teacher (or more likely, the school) could get in legal trouble.
Yes, they could. This is what got the issue resolved so quickly in my case. I went straight to the professor, who offered no proof, then went to the ombudsman and mentioned exactly that possibility.
Yes, they could. This is what got the issue resolved so quickly in my case. I went straight to the professor, who offered no proof, then went to the ombudsman and mentioned exactly that possibility.
Three days later, everything was cleared up.
As well it should have been. These are serious charges, and they should never, EVER be made simply on a hunch. I've still got a paper I'm CERTAIN was plagiarized but was unable to find the original sources. From time to time, I pull it out and poke around to see if I can find anything, since at the uni where I was teaching before, you can level charges retroactively. If I find it, I can fail the student even after the class is over. And even after I've LEFT the university.
is there any way to prove a student cheated if they just have a friend write the paper for them?
It depends:
Conventional wisdom would say "No," unless you have some proof.
I would argue that, most likely, I could usually make a powerful case based only upon differences in language and rhetorical strategies between previous essays and the current, plagiarized, one. But that would be an absolute shitload of work.
I was talking to someone today about how I have a student who's been getting As on papers up until now and then WHAM, on her last essay, she's got SEVEN run-ons in ONE PAGE. The essay is terrible, and it's 3/4 of a page short. I was told that in these parts, usually Mom is making the grade, and not some other student. In a case like this, I think I could make a compelling argument that this last essay is in fact the student's work, and that the previous essays were not, and I could base that argument entirely on differences in the work.
I am taking a weekend break from failing 10th graders who plagiarized. I alerted them on Thursday and am just letting them consider their fates until Monday.
If you have an electronic copy I can run it through turnitin for you. Send me a PM with a place to upload from, or an e-mail address, and will get in touch.
I HATE people who cheat. I takes me about an 6 times longer to mark an assignment that I know has been copied, and to me time is precious.
I experienced a slightly different twist on this situation.
I had an instructor who 'borrowed' an idea from ME!
For his class we had to come up with a new product. I'm afraid I choose not to be too specific, for legal reasons; but my product was a good one - something I would like to have brought to market on my own someday. Foolishly, I trusted this person with my idea. After all, he was a 'teacher' - trustworthy, right? I wanted to show him how creative I was. Yeah, right!
24 months later, I saw my product on the market, with the exact name I had given it and the exact promotional words I had used in my assignment. I wonder what the statute of limitations is on such a thing. I still have the paper (somewhere) - WITH his fingerprints and grading comments on it, and the date of the assignment, of course.
What's more ironic, is that part of the class dealt with copyright and protection of intellectual property rights.
Frankly, I wouldn't trust anyone with any of my ideas anymore. Sad, huh?
Carol
P.S. I'm not in the business world. I teach 7th grade English. I wonder how much money he made from my idea. The creep!
problem is most major universities have a clause stating that any and all papers you do/write are the property of the University. you'd be screwed anyway.
problem is most major universities have a clause stating that any and all papers you do/write are the property of the University. you'd be screwed anyway.
What? How can that be?
Just because a person is a student shouldn't mean he has no intellectual property rights to his own work!!!
Just because a person is a student shouldn't mean he has no intellectual property rights to his own work!!!
colleges and universities are notorious for thieving all kinds of student's IP. they often swoop down and pluck ideas, only after they come to fruition, ignoring any failed projects the student may have worked on. a student gets to toil over 10s or hundreds of ideas, all failing but one; and the institution comes in and claims ownership over it and steal it. anyone who creates works is best to be particularly cautious while under the watchful eye of a university.
problem is most major universities have a clause stating that any and all papers you do/write are the property of the University. you'd be screwed anyway.
I would think that that only applies to professors and those otherwise working for the university.
Comments
My professor who was from the "old school" picked it up and after a few moments of close inspection, waved it in the air, cleared his throat and with all the gravitas he could muster he said.
"This is the sort of thing that k-k-k-k-killed off latin and heralded the f-f-f-f-f-all of Rome"
His portent of doom still brings a smile.
Originally posted by trumptman
I was accused once as well. It seems like this is a pretty common thing based off the replies to these forums.
It really surprises me. I've heard that you're not even supposed to accuse a student of cheating unless you have absolute proof, because the teacher (or more likely, the school) could get in legal trouble. So even if you think you see someone looking at someone else's test, you can't really do anything because there's really no proof.
Originally posted by murbot
Luckily I didn't have professors who checked shit like that.
You had professors for lumberjacking...and drinking corn whiskey..wow ...Murbot...
i didn't realize that teachers actually read home work and papers though. i remember, quite distinctly, that i "accidentally" handed in my math homework to my biology "teacher" (ok, it was hs, so the standards were lower i guess). he, in his typical fashion, passed it back the next day with a check-plus. It wasn't until i got it back that i realized it was math. i was quite confused, and elated (because, as it turns out, i hadn't done my bio hw, and perchance my math teacher didn't collect hw that week).
a similar situation arose in college though. a small team, about 5 students of which i was a member, had to write a long project over pretty much the whole term. every week there were certain pieces due, one of which was always a status report, and they'd be reviewed and graded. the teacher didn't care at all about the technical details of the program. despite what seemed to be written in the course description, i dont think he ever read our code; it was beautiful code too. ours was well beyond the others (i say this not even trying to be self gratifying, but genuinely, ours met and exceeded all the requirements, while the other groups barely met them). we didn't gain much benefit from our technical prowess though. we lost points for spelling on the status report. and the worst part is, the prof basically told us he didn't read it. he said, "i should even see those swiggly red lines when i open it in word." one of the team members hinted at the fact that we dont think he read it, and he said "i'm very busy. i see those damned swiggly lines and i take off points." they're fucking acronyms and shit. jesus christ. i think i got like a C in that class, and it really pissed me off.
so, in conclusion, i think the best option would be to ignore the papers. if thats not feasible, have a ta read and grade them. judge your students solely on speling.
Originally posted by Aquafire
You had professors for lumberjacking...and drinking corn whiskey..wow ...Murbot...
Corn whiskey? Never heard of that brand of beer.
Originally posted by jwri004
Are you using anything like turnitin.com? You will need an electronic copy though to submit it through this method.
We're currently negotiating with them for a trial service, but the problem is that they want a wide range of professors from several disciplines (and hopefully the sciences) to contribute, which makes it difficult. The service is pretty expensive, too, and we just want to see how well it works.
Several years ago, while in grad school, I argued that the easiest thing to do would be to set up an old PC with something like moveable type (a database-driven web publishing tool), require professors to load up the essays they receive, and thus have them in a searchable text format available via a web interface. I still think something like this would work, and would allow us to keep a nice database of papers turned in. And it'd be searchable, of course.
Cheers
Scott
It really surprises me. I've heard that you're not even supposed to accuse a student of cheating unless you have absolute proof, because the teacher (or more likely, the school) could get in legal trouble.
Yes, they could. This is what got the issue resolved so quickly in my case. I went straight to the professor, who offered no proof, then went to the ombudsman and mentioned exactly that possibility.
Three days later, everything was cleared up.
Originally posted by groverat
Yes, they could. This is what got the issue resolved so quickly in my case. I went straight to the professor, who offered no proof, then went to the ombudsman and mentioned exactly that possibility.
Three days later, everything was cleared up.
As well it should have been. These are serious charges, and they should never, EVER be made simply on a hunch. I've still got a paper I'm CERTAIN was plagiarized but was unable to find the original sources. From time to time, I pull it out and poke around to see if I can find anything, since at the uni where I was teaching before, you can level charges retroactively. If I find it, I can fail the student even after the class is over. And even after I've LEFT the university.
And I will.
Cheers
Scott
Originally posted by alcimedes
is there any way to prove a student cheated if they just have a friend write the paper for them?
It depends:
Conventional wisdom would say "No," unless you have some proof.
I would argue that, most likely, I could usually make a powerful case based only upon differences in language and rhetorical strategies between previous essays and the current, plagiarized, one. But that would be an absolute shitload of work.
I was talking to someone today about how I have a student who's been getting As on papers up until now and then WHAM, on her last essay, she's got SEVEN run-ons in ONE PAGE. The essay is terrible, and it's 3/4 of a page short. I was told that in these parts, usually Mom is making the grade, and not some other student. In a case like this, I think I could make a compelling argument that this last essay is in fact the student's work, and that the previous essays were not, and I could base that argument entirely on differences in the work.
Cheers
Scott
I HATE people who cheat. I takes me about an 6 times longer to mark an assignment that I know has been copied, and to me time is precious.
I experienced a slightly different twist on this situation.
I had an instructor who 'borrowed' an idea from ME!
For his class we had to come up with a new product. I'm afraid I choose not to be too specific, for legal reasons; but my product was a good one - something I would like to have brought to market on my own someday. Foolishly, I trusted this person with my idea. After all, he was a 'teacher' - trustworthy, right? I wanted to show him how creative I was. Yeah, right!
24 months later, I saw my product on the market, with the exact name I had given it and the exact promotional words I had used in my assignment. I wonder what the statute of limitations is on such a thing. I still have the paper (somewhere) - WITH his fingerprints and grading comments on it, and the date of the assignment, of course.
What's more ironic, is that part of the class dealt with copyright and protection of intellectual property rights.
Frankly, I wouldn't trust anyone with any of my ideas anymore. Sad, huh?
Carol
P.S. I'm not in the business world. I teach 7th grade English. I wonder how much money he made from my idea. The creep!
Originally posted by alcimedes
problem is most major universities have a clause stating that any and all papers you do/write are the property of the University. you'd be screwed anyway.
What? How can that be?
Just because a person is a student shouldn't mean he has no intellectual property rights to his own work!!!
Originally posted by Carol A
What? How can that be?
Just because a person is a student shouldn't mean he has no intellectual property rights to his own work!!!
colleges and universities are notorious for thieving all kinds of student's IP. they often swoop down and pluck ideas, only after they come to fruition, ignoring any failed projects the student may have worked on. a student gets to toil over 10s or hundreds of ideas, all failing but one; and the institution comes in and claims ownership over it and steal it. anyone who creates works is best to be particularly cautious while under the watchful eye of a university.
Originally posted by alcimedes
problem is most major universities have a clause stating that any and all papers you do/write are the property of the University. you'd be screwed anyway.
I would think that that only applies to professors and those otherwise working for the university.
i went through this with a professor. i rewrote a paper because i refused to give them rights to my original idea.
if you don't believe me check. Universities (at least public ones) claim ownership of student's IP as well as employees.