The official Dean's thread
Gore to Endorse Howard Dean for '04 Presidential Nomination
This is HUGE!
It gives Howard Dean the outsider major credibility with party insiders.
What do you think?
This is HUGE!
It gives Howard Dean the outsider major credibility with party insiders.
What do you think?
Comments
i think this locks dean in, but i think if you really want a democratic president next term, this is bad.
Am I the only one that responds to this with a giant:
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO cares?
Originally posted by BR
Hooray. One politician endorses another politician. Excellent news. Really.
Am I the only one that responds to this with a giant:
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO cares?
You're generalizing. One politician endorsing another politician is generally not newsworthy. But, Al Gore, the Democratic Party's last candidate for President endorsing Howard Dean, the frontrunner for the Democratic nominee, is newsworthy. In fact it's a HUGE boost for the Dean campaign that cements his frontrunner position, gives him insider credibility with the party, and completely rules another candidate out. Joe Lieberman is finished since his own running-mate in 2000 endorsed another candidate. Huge.
dukakis did sooo well when mondale endorsed him.
The former vice-president is widely popular among key primary voters due in part to the widespread belief among Democratic activists that the 2000 election was taken from him. In several surveys of Democratic voters, Gore and New York Senator Hillary Clinton, who repeatedly say they won't seek the nomination next year, have fared better than the announced presidential candidates.
The Gore endorsement comes just weeks after two key unions ? the Service Employees International Union and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees ? backed Dean's candidacy. The approval of Bill Clinton's No. 2 bolsters Dean's case that he can carry the party's mantle next November and represents more than an Internet-driven outsider relying on the support of largely white, middle-class voters.
AFSCME president Gerald McEntee said Gore's endorsement carries more weight than all of Dean's labour endorsements.
"It goes so far in dispelling this idea that swirls around that Dean would not be a good candidate in the general (election), that Dean in some way would be damaging to the Democratic party," McEntee said. "If there is anybody in this country who wants to beat George Bush again, I think it's Al Gore."
huge.
Am I being too machiavellian?
He's already in the middle.
he is a ticking time-bomb, the only question is whether he blows before or after the convention.
Ross Perot was a lunatic and he got a substantial share of the votes as an independant.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
You forget that 49% of the American Public already thinks the war was a bad idea.
He's already in the middle.
The war and opinion of Bush are two completely different things. Although many people will base their decision to vote or not vote for Bush on what happens with the war in the next 11 months, you have to factor in the economy and other things like that. The war is a big factor in everything, but not the only factor.
Mere anti-Bush stands alone will not generate enough votes to defeat him.
the real problem is in the last few weeks a few canidates seem to have been pulling back from this mindset, and have started to come out with some legitimate alternatives to what Bush has offered up.
now those canidates are dead in the water, and you've got a "i hate bush" broken record as your front runner. what the hell is he going to get elected on?
maybe things will change when the election draws near, but it reminds me of the problem republicans had in california. the canidate that was popular among the republicans who voted in the primary elections was also the same canidate that had zero chance to win in a state wide election.
that is dean, at least for now.
Originally posted by mcsjgs
I'm a Democrat, a liberal Democrat, and too old to care who knows it. This is a huge step forward for Howard Dean. But I am pessimistic about '04. What issues will Dems run on? Mere anti-Bush stands alone will not generate enough votes to defeat him. And he and Rove have done a very good job of co-opting key Democratic issues.
Bingo. Intellectual honesty...and thank you for it.
Shawn,
Dean is not going to beat Bush. I don't care of the Pope endorses him. He's too Left. The best chance is Clark. But they'll nominate Dean anyway.
Originally posted by SDW2001
Bingo. Intellectual honesty...and thank you for it.
Shawn,
Dean is not going to beat Bush. I don't care of the Pope endorses him. He's too Left. The best chance is Clark. But they'll nominate Dean anyway.
Mark your words, huh?
Does this sound familiar?
Originally posted by SDW2001
Mark my words, Dean will NOT get the nomination
It just goes to show you how much you undervalued his candidacy. I think people will ultimately be surprised at the potency of Dean's campaign, even though much of it operates above-the-radar (the internet). Much like how they will be surprised at the reasonableness of Dean's actual positions on things, which are much more moderate than perceived. Yet, this guy can motivate the base like no other candidate so far. Now that he has Al Gore's support, it seems he will solidify that base.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Mark your words, huh?
Does this sound familiar?
It just goes to show you how much you undervalued his candidacy. I think people will ultimately be surprised at the potency of Dean's campaign, even though much of it operates above-the-radar (the internet). Much like how they will be surprised at the reasonableness of Dean's actual positions on things, which are much more moderate than perceived. Yet, this guy can motivate the base like no other candidate so far. Now that he has Al Gore's support, it seems he will solidify that base. [/QUOTE]
Actually I would just call that giving the Democrats some credit. If anything it sounds more like the recall here in California. Davis was just paralyzed and Bustemante ran even more to the left of Davis and advocated raising taxes by billions and endorsed every program in the book.
Arnold won with a huge margin. However everyone was convinced early on the Dems would toss away Davis and run someone winnable and who could claim the middle ground. Instead they lost... badly.
SD saying Dean will never get the nomination is likely saying, "Look the Dems were so pissed about 2000 that they will find a nominate a winnable candidate for 2004." Instead they just followed the same pattern they have been following for a few years, and losing almost every time with. You would think that with all the issues they claim are on the line they could pull it together, but they can't.
I assure you I was saying the same thing about Republicans in 96 when they elected Dole for the nomination.
The sadddest part of this will be watching Dean suddenly toss aside his ideas. Sort of like how Gore was pro-life and his wife was getting musical artists into trouble for their lyrics until they wanted to run for president. Then all that was tossed aside.
We know Dean has already tossed away raising the retirement age, reforming medicare, etc. In some ways he does strike me as somewhat middle-ground. But it appears he might have sealed that all away and now is a creature of the hard left.
Nick
Originally posted by ShawnJ
^I don't follow any of your analogies.
I'll make it simple, just for you.
Democrats lose, Democrats lose Democrats lose...
SD2001 sez... Dean won't get nomination because Dems are tired of losing...
Dean gets nomination.
Democrats lose, Democrats lose....
SD was saying that the Democrats HAD to change something and they haven't. So I teased/said that he was giving them some credit for wanting to win. Apparently that was misplaced credit.
As for SD's other predictions. Anyone find it ironic that Dean is endorsed on the same day the stock market cracks 10,000?
Nick
So they do win. And they even win the popular vote.
I don't find it ironic at all... the rich get richer.
If Dean is just anti-Bush he's not going to compel most people to vote for him in the end because he won't appear to stand for anything, he'll be perceived as just standing against stuff. It's not that Dean can't present himself differently after the nomination. It' just that these challenger candidates have to paint themselves into a corner early to get their party's nomination, and the mad dash back to the middle is a longer, harder trip when you start so far away.
It's not a matter of being conservative or liberal it's a matter of being pragmatic and empirical.