Yep he is so intelligent.... Just so well studied with the issues and never the deer in the headlights problem...
from the nelson report:
Quote:
12. With the endorsement by former VP Al Gore, Howard Dean's chances of being the Democrat's presidential nominee are looking increasingly realistic. That means we all have to start looking at his policy pronouncements for substance, and not just as political maneuverings.
-- a friend attended a small, very private fundraiser for Dean recently?and despite going in fairly skeptical about Dean on substantive grounds, came away impressed on several levels.
13. Our friend asked Dean two trade related questions: first, would Dean have made a different decision on the steel 201's? (Yes?he would have kept them in place); and how does Dean see the issue of managing U.S.-China trade problems. (That's more complicated.)
-- "Dean gave a long, actually somewhat over-long answer, but one which clearly showed he had thought this all through, and wasn't just reciting staff-generated talking points," our friend reports.
14. Dean said that he would have kept the steel 201's in place, and that he will support a tougher trade enforcement stance on China, and other U.S. trading partners, not to raise barriers in the U.S., but to encourage China and other, lesser developed trading partners to "raise their standards".
-- Dean said that he originally supported NAFTA and China's WTO membership precisely because he feels that, in the long run, free trade "helps create a middle class", and that, "eventually" it will in both Mexico and China. The problem for now, which is to say, the problem for the political process, is that "the U.S. has not got time to wait" due to the trade deficit, and job losses which will never be replaced by adequately paying employment.
15. Dean made a point of saying that he often talks about all this with Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, and claimed that he and Rubin "are on the same page" about U.S. economic and trade policy, at least in terms of "how to get there."
-- our friend, an experienced financial and political observer, came away "frankly impressed" that Dean "can position himself well to take advantage of Bush on the 201's, and to address the job loss issue."
16. Stylistically, our friend said, "Dean is very, very intense", which sometimes is risky for TV, but that if Dean can keep his temper under control, "he seems likely to be able to reach out to 'emotional moderates' who are dissatisfied with Bush and worried about the future".
-- as to worries that Dean is "another McGovern", our friend noted recent polls showing that whereas McGovern was very unpopular with lots of Democrats, Bush is just as unpopular, now, with many Democrats. The point?cross-over voting by Democrats in 2004 is not likely to hurt Dean, as it killed McGovern in 1972?.and current polls show that Bush is close to even with leading Dems.
[B]Why vote for a man like Clark when we can have Dean
I like Clark a whole lot, but you should be aware that there are some quite compelling criticisms against him (not that this is at all unique to him--he's moses compared to Bush) and it would be good for you to really look into them.
That video is the best... Do I even have to spell out why Dean is a screwtard?
Fellows
Hu? You must be seeing something I don´t.
They have two issues with Dean.
1) His smile. Lets disregard that
1) That he is saying "There are some issues out there I haven´t made my mind up about and I have to look into that further before I take a position on those". Lets break that down.
1.1) His stance on gay marriage. We all know what Deans position is on that. No religious ceremony but common law marriage with exactly same rights. A position shared by almost anyone not hardcore republicans. What they actually showed was one clip where he is trying to semi-dodge the question and a clip clearly taken from some other part of the interview. I think he is trying to paint himself more liberal than he really is but know that when the first few primaries are over he will not be pussyfoot about that issue.
1.2) His stance on medical mahjuana. What he is saying is "Hey I don´t know the medical and social impacts of this yet to make up my mind. Lets find out and I will give you my position". Thats exactly what Clark does in so many issues and what makes him a strong candidate in my eyes. Not having a deck of cards with the right ideas ready to spew out. More honest also
Thats what the video leaves us with. A candidate that is pussyfoot on gay marriage because he knows that thats an issue that probably divide hardcore democrats and the general population most. Yeah that surely disqualify him as a candidate
Now I would like to see Clark as the candidate as much as you would but Dean would make a good one too if Clark doesn´t win the nomination. A lot better than the rest of the pack.
What he is saying is "Hey I don´t know the medical and social impacts of this yet to make up my mind. Lets find out and I will give you my position".
I see this as a cool position for Dean to take. We should have a candidate who supports decisions based on research rather than coming to the table with a predetermined stance.
Quote:
A candidate that is pussyfoot on gay marriage because he knows that thats an issue that probably divide hardcore democrats and the general population most.
Exactly. Could we expect an electable candidate to say anything different?
Compared to Clark Dean is a joke. First off the opening post of this thread raises a flag for me. Read over it again if need be.
As to what you call me on.
Deans comment about Gay marriage:
I am not gay and it does not affect me one way or the other but on the issue of gay marriage:
Clark on MSNBC for one hour with Chris Mathews said he is for equal rights for Gays and civil unions.
What does Dean say? I have not thought about that...... Crickets....
I just think a person who is running for president should be prepared for questions asked by Larry King.
Fellowship
Maybe he hasn't thought much about it...
You can't expect someone to [always] have a black and white decision... even when they're running for President. He appears to be honest. I don't have a clear decision on several matters in life, even those I have thought about considerably. Not everything is simple and clear cut... he probably needs more time to think about this particular issue. No big deal really.
I'm amazed by what I'm reading here. Bush might not be the most articulate person to grace the office, but he is certainly not stupid. And what is more important, if not most important, he's got VERY good political instincts. This conversation reminds of what I read of those leftist intellectuals back in the old days of Soviet Russia. They installed Stalin into power thinking him to be stupid a donkey, but turns out the guy out maneuvered the whole lot of them. I wonder why would Gore back-stab his old running mate like that. Is he seriously thinking he still got a future in politics?
Clark on MSNBC for one hour with Chris Mathews said he is for equal rights for Gays and civil unions.
Exactly what Deans position is too
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
What does Dean say? I have not thought about that...... Crickets....
That was a comment on GAY MARRIAGE. And as we all know he is AGAINST gay marriage (which he is actually saying with his "what other states want to do is their business").
WHat is Clarks position on gay marriage Fellwship?
As I pointed out, I don't want to attack clark because I think he might be very good, but you are really going to have to deal with the criticisms at some point.
You can't expect someone to [always] have a black and white decision... even when they're running for President. He appears to be honest. I don't have a clear decision on several matters in life, even those I have thought about considerably. Not everything is simple and clear cut... he probably needs more time to think about this particular issue. No big deal really.
Actually thats not quite right. He is against gay marriage.
With his sights now set on the White House, the Dean team has been doing its best over the last year to polish up a mediocre gubernatorial record. They're also trying to position Dean as "the liberal" in the Democratic field so as to grab the much-coveted early primary voters.
And nowhere are the tall tales of Dean's liberalism more off the mark than when the Dean team begins to gush about his environmental record.
"EP under Governor Dean meant Expedite Permits, not Environmental Protection," proclaims Annette Smith, the director of Vermonters for a Clean Environment.
Quote:
"Dean's attempts to run for president as an environmentalist is nothing but a fraud," Smith told Wild Matters. "He's destroyed the Agency of Natural Resources, he's refused to meet with environmentalists while constantly meeting with the development community, and he's made the permitting process one, big dysfunctional joke."
I am for Clark but it doesn´t mean you have to every other candidate as the enemy.
Exactly. They should gain support on their own merits, not on the 'problems' of the others. If you want to talk about problems, the only place worth looking is Bush. That's the alternative.
I believe that episode of The Daily Show isn't very recent. Jon Stewart talks about Dean making the cover of those magazines, and that happened some months ago. If the point was to show that months ago Dean wasn't sure where he stood on some issues, that's fine, but I think things are a bit different now.
Two links from what might be opposite sides of the fence depending on how you feel about the sources:
Conservative columnist William Kristol in Tuesday's Washington Post.
CNN's summary of where Dean stands on several issues.
I'm amazed by what I'm reading here. Bush might not be the most articulate person to grace the office, but he is certainly not stupid. And what is more important, if not most important, he's got VERY good political instincts. This conversation reminds of what I read of those leftist intellectuals back in the old days of Soviet Russia. They installed Stalin into power thinking him to be stupid a donkey, but turns out the guy out maneuvered the whole lot of them. I wonder why would Gore back-stab his old running mate like that. Is he seriously thinking he still got a future in politics?
Comments
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Yep he is so intelligent.... Just so well studied with the issues and never the deer in the headlights problem...
from the nelson report:
12. With the endorsement by former VP Al Gore, Howard Dean's chances of being the Democrat's presidential nominee are looking increasingly realistic. That means we all have to start looking at his policy pronouncements for substance, and not just as political maneuverings.
-- a friend attended a small, very private fundraiser for Dean recently?and despite going in fairly skeptical about Dean on substantive grounds, came away impressed on several levels.
13. Our friend asked Dean two trade related questions: first, would Dean have made a different decision on the steel 201's? (Yes?he would have kept them in place); and how does Dean see the issue of managing U.S.-China trade problems. (That's more complicated.)
-- "Dean gave a long, actually somewhat over-long answer, but one which clearly showed he had thought this all through, and wasn't just reciting staff-generated talking points," our friend reports.
14. Dean said that he would have kept the steel 201's in place, and that he will support a tougher trade enforcement stance on China, and other U.S. trading partners, not to raise barriers in the U.S., but to encourage China and other, lesser developed trading partners to "raise their standards".
-- Dean said that he originally supported NAFTA and China's WTO membership precisely because he feels that, in the long run, free trade "helps create a middle class", and that, "eventually" it will in both Mexico and China. The problem for now, which is to say, the problem for the political process, is that "the U.S. has not got time to wait" due to the trade deficit, and job losses which will never be replaced by adequately paying employment.
15. Dean made a point of saying that he often talks about all this with Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, and claimed that he and Rubin "are on the same page" about U.S. economic and trade policy, at least in terms of "how to get there."
-- our friend, an experienced financial and political observer, came away "frankly impressed" that Dean "can position himself well to take advantage of Bush on the 201's, and to address the job loss issue."
16. Stylistically, our friend said, "Dean is very, very intense", which sometimes is risky for TV, but that if Dean can keep his temper under control, "he seems likely to be able to reach out to 'emotional moderates' who are dissatisfied with Bush and worried about the future".
-- as to worries that Dean is "another McGovern", our friend noted recent polls showing that whereas McGovern was very unpopular with lots of Democrats, Bush is just as unpopular, now, with many Democrats. The point?cross-over voting by Democrats in 2004 is not likely to hurt Dean, as it killed McGovern in 1972?.and current polls show that Bush is close to even with leading Dems.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
[B]Why vote for a man like Clark when we can have Dean
I like Clark a whole lot, but you should be aware that there are some quite compelling criticisms against him (not that this is at all unique to him--he's moses compared to Bush) and it would be good for you to really look into them.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
That video is the best... Do I even have to spell out why Dean is a screwtard?
Fellows
Hu? You must be seeing something I don´t.
They have two issues with Dean.
1) His smile.
1) That he is saying "There are some issues out there I haven´t made my mind up about and I have to look into that further before I take a position on those". Lets break that down.
1.1) His stance on gay marriage. We all know what Deans position is on that. No religious ceremony but common law marriage with exactly same rights. A position shared by almost anyone not hardcore republicans. What they actually showed was one clip where he is trying to semi-dodge the question and a clip clearly taken from some other part of the interview. I think he is trying to paint himself more liberal than he really is but know that when the first few primaries are over he will not be pussyfoot about that issue.
1.2) His stance on medical mahjuana. What he is saying is "Hey I don´t know the medical and social impacts of this yet to make up my mind. Lets find out and I will give you my position". Thats exactly what Clark does in so many issues and what makes him a strong candidate in my eyes. Not having a deck of cards with the right ideas ready to spew out. More honest also
Thats what the video leaves us with. A candidate that is pussyfoot on gay marriage because he knows that thats an issue that probably divide hardcore democrats and the general population most. Yeah that surely disqualify him as a candidate
Now I would like to see Clark as the candidate as much as you would but Dean would make a good one too if Clark doesn´t win the nomination. A lot better than the rest of the pack.
Originally posted by Anders
What he is saying is "Hey I don´t know the medical and social impacts of this yet to make up my mind. Lets find out and I will give you my position".
I see this as a cool position for Dean to take. We should have a candidate who supports decisions based on research rather than coming to the table with a predetermined stance.
A candidate that is pussyfoot on gay marriage because he knows that thats an issue that probably divide hardcore democrats and the general population most.
Exactly. Could we expect an electable candidate to say anything different?
This video shows nothing to justify your dislike for Dean. You use a clip from The Daily Show?
Ummmm.... it's a parody of the news. They'd poke fun of your mother if she was a top story. Sorry man, you got nothing.
Originally posted by Akumulator
Anders has it 100% correct.
This video shows nothing to justify your dislike for Dean. You use a clip from The Daily Show?
Ummmm.... it's a parody of the news. They'd poke fun of your mother if she was a top story. Sorry man, you got nothing.
Compared to Clark Dean is a joke. First off the opening post of this thread raises a flag for me. Read over it again if need be.
As to what you call me on.
Deans comment about Gay marriage:
I am not gay and it does not affect me one way or the other but on the issue of gay marriage:
Clark on MSNBC for one hour with Chris Mathews said he is for equal rights for Gays and civil unions.
What does Dean say? I have not thought about that...... Crickets....
I just think a person who is running for president should be prepared for questions asked by Larry King.
Fellowship
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Compared to Clark Dean is a joke. First off the opening post of this thread raises a flag for me. Read over it again if need be.
As to what you call me on.
Deans comment about Gay marriage:
I am not gay and it does not affect me one way or the other but on the issue of gay marriage:
Clark on MSNBC for one hour with Chris Mathews said he is for equal rights for Gays and civil unions.
What does Dean say? I have not thought about that...... Crickets....
I just think a person who is running for president should be prepared for questions asked by Larry King.
Fellowship
Maybe he hasn't thought much about it...
You can't expect someone to [always] have a black and white decision... even when they're running for President. He appears to be honest. I don't have a clear decision on several matters in life, even those I have thought about considerably. Not everything is simple and clear cut... he probably needs more time to think about this particular issue. No big deal really.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Clark on MSNBC for one hour with Chris Mathews said he is for equal rights for Gays and civil unions.
Exactly what Deans position is too
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
What does Dean say? I have not thought about that...... Crickets....
That was a comment on GAY MARRIAGE. And as we all know he is AGAINST gay marriage (which he is actually saying with his "what other states want to do is their business").
WHat is Clarks position on gay marriage Fellwship?
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Compared to Clark Dean is a joke.
As I pointed out, I don't want to attack clark because I think he might be very good, but you are really going to have to deal with the criticisms at some point.
Originally posted by majorspunk
I wonder why would Gore back-stab his old running mate like that. Is he seriously thinking he still got a future in politics?
maybe.... are there term limits on VP? I don't think there are..............................he may be interested in being VP again>
Originally posted by Akumulator
Maybe he hasn't thought much about it...
You can't expect someone to [always] have a black and white decision... even when they're running for President. He appears to be honest. I don't have a clear decision on several matters in life, even those I have thought about considerably. Not everything is simple and clear cut... he probably needs more time to think about this particular issue. No big deal really.
Actually thats not quite right. He is against gay marriage.
How is Dean's record?
With his sights now set on the White House, the Dean team has been doing its best over the last year to polish up a mediocre gubernatorial record. They're also trying to position Dean as "the liberal" in the Democratic field so as to grab the much-coveted early primary voters.
And nowhere are the tall tales of Dean's liberalism more off the mark than when the Dean team begins to gush about his environmental record.
"EP under Governor Dean meant Expedite Permits, not Environmental Protection," proclaims Annette Smith, the director of Vermonters for a Clean Environment.
"Dean's attempts to run for president as an environmentalist is nothing but a fraud," Smith told Wild Matters. "He's destroyed the Agency of Natural Resources, he's refused to meet with environmentalists while constantly meeting with the development community, and he's made the permitting process one, big dysfunctional joke."
CounterPunch Link
compare that to Clark:
Turnaround Plan for America: Clean Air
Environmentalists for Clark
Fellowship
You don't want to end up feeling like how nader 2000 supporters do today.
Originally posted by giant
Look, the most important thing is to get Bush out. Attacking Dean isn't going to do it, it will only serve to make none of the democrats get elected.
Dean will not win the South, Clark would.
But hey we will all have to watch this unfold.
I just hate to see Bush get re-elected because some democrats think Dean is the coolest thing since paper.
Fellowship
Yeah that is a fair comparishment.
At least it confirm my argument that Dean isn´t a liberal
I am for Clark but it doesn´t mean you have to every other candidate as the enemy.
Originally posted by Anders
I am for Clark but it doesn´t mean you have to every other candidate as the enemy.
Exactly. They should gain support on their own merits, not on the 'problems' of the others. If you want to talk about problems, the only place worth looking is Bush. That's the alternative.
Two links from what might be opposite sides of the fence depending on how you feel about the sources:
Conservative columnist William Kristol in Tuesday's Washington Post.
CNN's summary of where Dean stands on several issues.
Originally posted by majorspunk
I'm amazed by what I'm reading here. Bush might not be the most articulate person to grace the office, but he is certainly not stupid. And what is more important, if not most important, he's got VERY good political instincts. This conversation reminds of what I read of those leftist intellectuals back in the old days of Soviet Russia. They installed Stalin into power thinking him to be stupid a donkey, but turns out the guy out maneuvered the whole lot of them. I wonder why would Gore back-stab his old running mate like that. Is he seriously thinking he still got a future in politics?
"back-stab?"
Troll.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
That video is the best... Do I even have to spell out why Dean is a screwtard?
You'd have to define it first, but yes.