Dumbass. The point is that the workers are pleased and don't feel the need to unionize.
One reason why Wal-Mart has happy workers is their medical benefits package. Wal-Mart covers 100% of all catastrophic medical expenses. Need a transplant? You're covered. Have a major car accident? You're covered. However, the tradeoff is that there is a higher copay for run of the mill doctor visits. Still, knowing that your family is covered in case of a severe accident helps keep peace of mind.
You're calling me a dumbass, but then claiming that WalMart isn't fighting unions? You really are not very intelligent BR. Keep working at it though.
Try GOOGLE. Try reading about union busting by WalMart. Try reading about the court decisions against them. You are dumb, aren't you? My goodness.
Happy workers that don't feel the need to unionize? You are dumb, aren't you?
That is why it pays what it does. Change any of those variables, and watch the pay rate start to change. Require something that some stiff off the street doesn't know and can't be trained by watching a video in 20 minutes, pay goes up, etc.
The supply of people who can and will do this job is too large.
Nick
Yeah, I made $14 an hour as a non-union (in the books that's the same as "unskilled.") construction worker. Plus time and a half for overtime. I was working on a roof in the heat, doing manual labor, but hey, I did pretty well that summer. If I'm correct, the skilled guys (plumbers, sheet metal, other union guys) made about twice as much. That's not really a bad way to live, aside from union dues.
If you weren't such a stupid insufferable prick you might take a second to look back at American history and realize the period of our greatest prosperity and largest middle class coincided with our highest levels of union employment
Are you referring to the 20's or the 90's?
Both decades had generally low union involvement. In the 90's, while unions were big, they didn't make a lot of fuss. . . And keep in mind that unions do just as much dirty stuff as anti-union camps. Most people I know who are in unions would rather not be. They're just in them because they were coerced by union lawyers. (the lawyers force companies that hire to go union-only)
In constrast, during the seventies, union and unskilled labor were paid much better comparative wages than they are today. And we all know the 70's sucked, aside from a few cool rock bands like AC-DC.
So that's maybe $16.5k a year working full time but not including overtime. Maybe it's a nice second income for a spouse. Maybe a good place to start for a young adult. Not everyone has to pay their full expense with their income. Some kids work there after school or summers. If it can't cover your expenses then you have to find something else that pays more.
You assume too much.
You assume that in these times anybody can get a career in their field right now in these "great" fiscal times from the Dumbo administration (can't dump all of this shit on Dumbo...this has been an issue for decades). YOU'RE WRONG.
I am working at Barne's and Noble, full-time, $8.00 and hour and it SUCKS. There ARE no other opportunities for extra work. At least not the ones I have called, sent resumes or filled out applications for.
I guess one would perceive that working at a large bookstore would be a little more "high brow" than a position at a Wal-Mart but it's the SAME. Low pay and hard, hard work. It's not my second income...its my ONLY income.
This new year will decide whether I stay in Philly or move to my sister's and live in her basement out in the boondocks. So far, it doesn't look promising. I will carry on, scrape by, eat tuna fish salad sandwiches and Chef Boyardee for sustenance, cut costs anyway I can...but right now I'm living pay check by paycheck. As MOST people are today.
Yeah, I made $14 an hour as a non-union (in the books that's the same as "unskilled.") construction worker. Plus time and a half for overtime. I was working on a roof in the heat, doing manual labor, but hey, I did pretty well that summer. If I'm correct, the skilled guys (plumbers, sheet metal, other union guys) made about twice as much. That's not really a bad way to live, aside from union dues.
Well you sort of prove the point then don't you. My apartment building is filled almost exclusively with people working in various fields of construction. It pays pretty/very well, but a lot of the jobs do involve some danger of course. Stay off the roof! Roofers have the highest level of injuries. Plumbing is where it is at, or electrician in my book.
You assume that in these times anybody can get a career in their field right now in these "great" fiscal times from the Dumbo administration (can't dump all of this shit on Dumbo...this has been an issue for decades). YOU'RE WRONG.
I am working at Barne's and Noble, full-time, $8.00 and hour and it SUCKS. There ARE no other opportunities for extra work. At least not the ones I have called, sent resumes or filled out applications for.
I guess one would perceive that working at a large bookstore would be a little more "high brow" than a position at a Wal-Mart but it's the SAME. Low pay and hard, hard work. It's not my second income...its my ONLY income.
This new year will decide whether I stay in Philly or move to my sister's and live in her basement out in the boondocks. So far, it doesn't look promising. I will carry on, scrape by, eat tuna fish salad sandwiches and Chef Boyardee for sustenance, cut costs anyway I can...but right now I'm living pay check by paycheck. As MOST people are today.
Why would someone assume there will always be plenty of jobs in their field no matter who is president? I tease people that whatever is job hot enough for you to hear about the shortage likely already has too many people running to meet the shortfall by the time you would get into it. (If it requires 4 years of schooling.)
The only field I have seen buck this trend is nursing which has had shortages for over a decade.
Perhaps if you job field is looking like there will be no job growth in it for now, or for a few years, you ought to change fields.
When I entered college one of the big jobs was aeronautical engineering, by the time I left aeronautical engineers were working at Denny's because of all the defense cutbacks. I'm in teaching now which seems pretty safe, but if there suddenly were huge layoffs, I'd probably go back for nursing or something else where the jobs are going.
To be honest the core of my main student job require two weeks of training and not much more. I´m given a desk, a computer and lunch every day and my salary is $25/h. After tax its still double the amount of the AVERAGE (<-remember that) wal mart worker before tax.
If it is that easy to get into, I wouldn't count on it as a career then. I would say, hmmmmm... I feel like a future bank teller, grocery worker, etc.
Why would someone assume there will always be plenty of jobs in their field no matter who is president? I tease people that whatever is job hot enough for you to hear about the shortage likely already has too many people running to meet the shortfall by the time you would get into it. (If it requires 4 years of schooling.)
The only field I have seen buck this trend is nursing which has had shortages for over a decade.
Perhaps if you job field is looking like there will be no job growth in it for now, or for a few years, you ought to change fields.
When I entered college one of the big jobs was aeronautical engineering, by the time I left aeronautical engineers were working at Denny's because of all the defense cutbacks. I'm in teaching now which seems pretty safe, but if there suddenly were huge layoffs, I'd probably go back for nursing or something else where the jobs are going.
Nick
...and I agree to a lot of what you've pointed out. I'm not blind. I know that the career I went to college and got a degree for (that sad and forlorned Graphic Design career) is dead...and if there are opportunities they are far and few between or the employers are asking WAY too much in responsibilities and experience for anyone to be accepted. I have seen probably a dozen postings of positions like this who have not been fullfilled. I know because I have sent resumes to them countless times...and the position is still available.
As far as a career change...I have thought of it and I hate to say this (I am not one who dislikes change...yet I have changed my directions career-wise many times) but I went to high school and college...even returned to college for more experience and I sure as hell know that if I wanted to be a nurse I have really gone insane. I have skills, experience and training in the field I went to college and worked in...I'm not going back to school or college to become something I'm NOT. Neither are the other graphic designers, writers and other talentd/creative people working at Barne's and Noble or any other wage-slave job.
I will survive. And I will achieve the creative direction my talent can give me...and hopefully live comfortably from it. I'll gather the purpose and determination I have and fight for it.
Plus...I want to point out again that the retail, service and low-wage jobs are the hardest jobs around. I respect them and feel their pain (tax-wise) and believe they (I?) should be better compensated or given a tax break. But you see...tax breaks are for the rich...oh well.
Plus...I want to point out again that the retail, service and low-wage jobs are the hardest jobs around. I respect them and feel their pain (tax-wise) and believe they (I?) should be better compensated or given a tax break. But you see...tax breaks are for the rich...oh well.
Retail and service hard? Please.. I'd take working at Barnes and Noble over say... laying asphalt pretty much any day of the week. But of course so would just about everyone else and that is the issue.
Hmmm... stock clothes at Target or.... bust out ceramic tile in housing remodels.... I wonder which is harder?
I work in a bookstore and I set up and take care of a website for a construction company, where I get paid under a monthly contract. I put a lot more hours than neccessary because I try to do a superior job so I can pick up other work which will pay decently. For the construction company I make about 5 or 6 dollars an hour for the work I do.
I work in a bookstore and I set up and take care of a website for a construction company, where I get paid under a monthly contract. I put a lot more hours than neccessary because I try to do a superior job so I can pick up other work which will pay decently. For the construction company I make about 5 or 6 dollars an hour for the work I do.
Wow Rick, I have a friend who works under similar circumstances. I have had a sort of multiple year argument with him about how that doesn't garner better or higher paying work. He doesn't work at a book store though. He sort of freelances with computer repair,network installation, buzzword of the week to fill in the rest of the finances.
Wow Rick, I have a friend who works under similar circumstances. I have had a sort of multiple year argument with him about how that doesn't garner better or higher paying work. He doesn't work at a book store though. He sort of freelances with computer repair,network installation, buzzword of the week to fill in the rest of the finances.
It's called the recommendation game. Will it come through? Don't know - but as soon as I find something better I'm gone - plus there are only five months left on the current contract.
It's called the recommendation game. Will it come through? Don't know - but as soon as I find something better I'm gone - plus there are only five months left on the current contract.
Oh I know. It is just my contention that when they recommend they add, "Oh yeah, and he's cheap." So it doesn't lead to higher paying work.
Again to each their own. I have to apply my own principles when looking for renters. So they are sort of studies on human nature.
Exactly - it is a total scam, but at this point in time it is the only game on the table. I just had negotiations with two possible clients fall through because I proposed that they pay me decently - still below the market rate for high quality work. Someday I will find good clients and they will receive my best efforts - actually the people I work for now do, though they don't appreciate it.
Exactly - it is a total scam, but at this point in time it is the only game on the table. I just had negotiations with two possible clients fall through because I proposed that they pay me decently - still below the market rate for high quality work. Someday I will find good clients and they will receive my best efforts - actually the people I work for now do, though they don't appreciate it.
You my friend need to learn the art of the upsale.
Comments
Originally posted by BR
Dumbass. The point is that the workers are pleased and don't feel the need to unionize.
One reason why Wal-Mart has happy workers is their medical benefits package. Wal-Mart covers 100% of all catastrophic medical expenses. Need a transplant? You're covered. Have a major car accident? You're covered. However, the tradeoff is that there is a higher copay for run of the mill doctor visits. Still, knowing that your family is covered in case of a severe accident helps keep peace of mind.
You're calling me a dumbass, but then claiming that WalMart isn't fighting unions? You really are not very intelligent BR. Keep working at it though.
Try GOOGLE. Try reading about union busting by WalMart. Try reading about the court decisions against them. You are dumb, aren't you? My goodness.
Happy workers that don't feel the need to unionize? You are dumb, aren't you?
Originally posted by trumptman
That is why it pays what it does. Change any of those variables, and watch the pay rate start to change. Require something that some stiff off the street doesn't know and can't be trained by watching a video in 20 minutes, pay goes up, etc.
The supply of people who can and will do this job is too large.
Nick
Yeah, I made $14 an hour as a non-union (in the books that's the same as "unskilled.") construction worker. Plus time and a half for overtime. I was working on a roof in the heat, doing manual labor, but hey, I did pretty well that summer. If I'm correct, the skilled guys (plumbers, sheet metal, other union guys) made about twice as much. That's not really a bad way to live, aside from union dues.
Originally posted by trick fall
If you weren't such a stupid insufferable prick you might take a second to look back at American history and realize the period of our greatest prosperity and largest middle class coincided with our highest levels of union employment
Are you referring to the 20's or the 90's?
Both decades had generally low union involvement. In the 90's, while unions were big, they didn't make a lot of fuss. . . And keep in mind that unions do just as much dirty stuff as anti-union camps. Most people I know who are in unions would rather not be. They're just in them because they were coerced by union lawyers. (the lawyers force companies that hire to go union-only)
In constrast, during the seventies, union and unskilled labor were paid much better comparative wages than they are today. And we all know the 70's sucked, aside from a few cool rock bands like AC-DC.
Originally posted by Scott
So that's maybe $16.5k a year working full time but not including overtime. Maybe it's a nice second income for a spouse. Maybe a good place to start for a young adult. Not everyone has to pay their full expense with their income. Some kids work there after school or summers. If it can't cover your expenses then you have to find something else that pays more.
You assume too much.
You assume that in these times anybody can get a career in their field right now in these "great" fiscal times from the Dumbo administration (can't dump all of this shit on Dumbo...this has been an issue for decades). YOU'RE WRONG.
I am working at Barne's and Noble, full-time, $8.00 and hour and it SUCKS. There ARE no other opportunities for extra work. At least not the ones I have called, sent resumes or filled out applications for.
I guess one would perceive that working at a large bookstore would be a little more "high brow" than a position at a Wal-Mart but it's the SAME. Low pay and hard, hard work. It's not my second income...its my ONLY income.
This new year will decide whether I stay in Philly or move to my sister's and live in her basement out in the boondocks. So far, it doesn't look promising. I will carry on, scrape by, eat tuna fish salad sandwiches and Chef Boyardee for sustenance, cut costs anyway I can...but right now I'm living pay check by paycheck. As MOST people are today.
Nickle and Dimed...
READ IT Royal Pain in the Ass...get a clue.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Yeah, I made $14 an hour as a non-union (in the books that's the same as "unskilled.") construction worker. Plus time and a half for overtime. I was working on a roof in the heat, doing manual labor, but hey, I did pretty well that summer. If I'm correct, the skilled guys (plumbers, sheet metal, other union guys) made about twice as much. That's not really a bad way to live, aside from union dues.
Well you sort of prove the point then don't you. My apartment building is filled almost exclusively with people working in various fields of construction. It pays pretty/very well, but a lot of the jobs do involve some danger of course. Stay off the roof!
Nick
Originally posted by Artman @_@
You assume that in these times anybody can get a career in their field right now in these "great" fiscal times from the Dumbo administration (can't dump all of this shit on Dumbo...this has been an issue for decades). YOU'RE WRONG.
I am working at Barne's and Noble, full-time, $8.00 and hour and it SUCKS. There ARE no other opportunities for extra work. At least not the ones I have called, sent resumes or filled out applications for.
I guess one would perceive that working at a large bookstore would be a little more "high brow" than a position at a Wal-Mart but it's the SAME. Low pay and hard, hard work. It's not my second income...its my ONLY income.
This new year will decide whether I stay in Philly or move to my sister's and live in her basement out in the boondocks. So far, it doesn't look promising. I will carry on, scrape by, eat tuna fish salad sandwiches and Chef Boyardee for sustenance, cut costs anyway I can...but right now I'm living pay check by paycheck. As MOST people are today.
Nickle and Dimed...
READ IT Royal Pain in the Ass...get a clue.
Why would someone assume there will always be plenty of jobs in their field no matter who is president? I tease people that whatever is job hot enough for you to hear about the shortage likely already has too many people running to meet the shortfall by the time you would get into it. (If it requires 4 years of schooling.)
The only field I have seen buck this trend is nursing which has had shortages for over a decade.
Perhaps if you job field is looking like there will be no job growth in it for now, or for a few years, you ought to change fields.
When I entered college one of the big jobs was aeronautical engineering, by the time I left aeronautical engineers were working at Denny's because of all the defense cutbacks. I'm in teaching now which seems pretty safe, but if there suddenly were huge layoffs, I'd probably go back for nursing or something else where the jobs are going.
Nick
Originally posted by Anders
To be honest the core of my main student job require two weeks of training and not much more. I´m given a desk, a computer and lunch every day and my salary is $25/h. After tax its still double the amount of the AVERAGE (<-remember that) wal mart worker before tax.
If it is that easy to get into, I wouldn't count on it as a career then. I would say, hmmmmm... I feel like a future bank teller, grocery worker, etc.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Why would someone assume there will always be plenty of jobs in their field no matter who is president? I tease people that whatever is job hot enough for you to hear about the shortage likely already has too many people running to meet the shortfall by the time you would get into it. (If it requires 4 years of schooling.)
The only field I have seen buck this trend is nursing which has had shortages for over a decade.
Perhaps if you job field is looking like there will be no job growth in it for now, or for a few years, you ought to change fields.
When I entered college one of the big jobs was aeronautical engineering, by the time I left aeronautical engineers were working at Denny's because of all the defense cutbacks. I'm in teaching now which seems pretty safe, but if there suddenly were huge layoffs, I'd probably go back for nursing or something else where the jobs are going.
Nick
...and I agree to a lot of what you've pointed out. I'm not blind. I know that the career I went to college and got a degree for (that sad and forlorned Graphic Design career) is dead...and if there are opportunities they are far and few between or the employers are asking WAY too much in responsibilities and experience for anyone to be accepted. I have seen probably a dozen postings of positions like this who have not been fullfilled. I know because I have sent resumes to them countless times...and the position is still available.
As far as a career change...I have thought of it and I hate to say this (I am not one who dislikes change...yet I have changed my directions career-wise many times) but I went to high school and college...even returned to college for more experience and I sure as hell know that if I wanted to be a nurse I have really gone insane. I have skills, experience and training in the field I went to college and worked in...I'm not going back to school or college to become something I'm NOT. Neither are the other graphic designers, writers and other talentd/creative people working at Barne's and Noble or any other wage-slave job.
I will survive. And I will achieve the creative direction my talent can give me...and hopefully live comfortably from it. I'll gather the purpose and determination I have and fight for it.
Plus...I want to point out again that the retail, service and low-wage jobs are the hardest jobs around. I respect them and feel their pain (tax-wise) and believe they (I?) should be better compensated or given a tax break. But you see...tax breaks are for the rich...oh well.
Originally posted by Artman @_@
Plus...I want to point out again that the retail, service and low-wage jobs are the hardest jobs around. I respect them and feel their pain (tax-wise) and believe they (I?) should be better compensated or given a tax break. But you see...tax breaks are for the rich...oh well.
Retail and service hard? Please.. I'd take working at Barnes and Noble over say... laying asphalt pretty much any day of the week. But of course so would just about everyone else and that is the issue.
Hmmm... stock clothes at Target or.... bust out ceramic tile in housing remodels.... I wonder which is harder?
Nick
contruction etc. are hard because of manual labor.
i would actually rather do manual labor than have to be polite to assholes.
Originally posted by alcimedes
i would actually rather do manual labor than have to be polite to assholes.
Thanks for always being polite to me.
What sort of work do you do Rick1138?
I work in a bookstore and I set up and take care of a website for a construction company, where I get paid under a monthly contract. I put a lot more hours than neccessary because I try to do a superior job so I can pick up other work which will pay decently. For the construction company I make about 5 or 6 dollars an hour for the work I do.
Thanks for always being polite to me.
see, told you i'm no good at it.
Originally posted by Rick1138
I work in a bookstore and I set up and take care of a website for a construction company, where I get paid under a monthly contract. I put a lot more hours than neccessary because I try to do a superior job so I can pick up other work which will pay decently. For the construction company I make about 5 or 6 dollars an hour for the work I do.
Wow Rick, I have a friend who works under similar circumstances. I have had a sort of multiple year argument with him about how that doesn't garner better or higher paying work. He doesn't work at a book store though. He sort of freelances with computer repair,network installation, buzzword of the week to fill in the rest of the finances.
Nick
Originally posted by alcimedes
see, told you i'm no good at it.
Uh moderator, bunge's left another pubic hair in my reply again. Would you be so kind as to remove it comp my meal.
Nick
re you referring to the 20's or the 90's?
Neither, I was referring to the post WWII economic expansion.
Wow Rick, I have a friend who works under similar circumstances. I have had a sort of multiple year argument with him about how that doesn't garner better or higher paying work. He doesn't work at a book store though. He sort of freelances with computer repair,network installation, buzzword of the week to fill in the rest of the finances.
It's called the recommendation game. Will it come through? Don't know - but as soon as I find something better I'm gone - plus there are only five months left on the current contract.
Originally posted by Rick1138
It's called the recommendation game. Will it come through? Don't know - but as soon as I find something better I'm gone - plus there are only five months left on the current contract.
Oh I know. It is just my contention that when they recommend they add, "Oh yeah, and he's cheap." So it doesn't lead to higher paying work.
Again to each their own. I have to apply my own principles when looking for renters. So they are sort of studies on human nature.
Nick
Originally posted by Rick1138
Exactly - it is a total scam, but at this point in time it is the only game on the table. I just had negotiations with two possible clients fall through because I proposed that they pay me decently - still below the market rate for high quality work. Someday I will find good clients and they will receive my best efforts - actually the people I work for now do, though they don't appreciate it.
You my friend need to learn the art of the upsale.
Nick