There's obviously a difference between being safer and being safe. Those in denial either think that nothing has been done, or they think that it's all safe now. I see a lot more of the former in here than the latter.
Technically, I'm safer driving at 80MPH rather than driving at 120MPH. But I really want to drive 120 so I installed Z rated tires rather than V rated tires. I feel a lot safer now, rather than just safe.
It's all relative. Look, the chances of you or I getting killed by a new terrorist attack are slim. But, I refuse to allow this false sense of security to be used as political gain by the current administration. It's intellectually dishonest. So, yeah, I will counter that claim vigorously.
That's a pretty astonishing charge and one would hope he had his facts absolutely straight. He doesn't. His entire case is centered around a Pakistani named Mansoor Ijaz. Sandy Berger only had to meet with him once to realize he was an unreliable freelancer, pursuing his own financial interests. Ijaz wanted sanctions lifted off Sudanese oil and tried bartering Bin Laden. Why didn't we negotiate? First, we don't negotiate with terrorist states. Two, because Sudan remains a notorious sponsor of terrorism, harboring Hamas, Hazbollah, and al Qaeda. Third, Sudan is the leading state sponsor of slavery and is considered by many to be genocidal. However, the US pursued every lead and tried to negotiate. Nothing.
The good news is that Moonsor Ijaz now has a job as foreign affairs analyst for Fox News. Surprise surprise.
I knew I was forgetting something. It's been a few months since I read that book.
You guys should move to Israel or Afghanistan or Iraq if your think safety is entirely relative.
The fact that 9/11 proved to terror entities that a major attack on the US could be effected, opened the door for every wacky extremist group to follow suit. The fact that no other attack on US soil since proves that our government is taking serious measures to keep it's citizens safe as possible.
Giant, I know you will probably disagree with this, but who knows how many attempts have been thwarted by different agencies in our government.
Safety is relative, I will agree. But to state we are no safer than before 9/11 goes in the face of mounting evidence otherwise. And to imply that GWB is making token measures to achieve greater safety just because you are on the opposite end of the political spectrum, is blatantly irresponsible.
There are people on this earth that have decided that everything is America's and Israel's fault. They are banding together as we speek. They have decided that your life and the lives of your family should be cut short, if they have anything to do with it. You are the enemy, even if you think you are not. They care little about your political leanings. Stating "Wait, I am a liberal Democrat, I defend your cause!" will not save you from their hatred. Sending brotherly love or gifts will not make them like you. Understanding why they hate you will not prevent them from wanting to kill you. You and your children mean nothing to them, except maybe another notch on their gun-stalk. You should come to grips with sooner or later.
Like I said the greatest promoter of safety is involvement in your community.
BTW: I downloaded expired about a month ago. Very cool. Are the other two available anywhere?
Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it.
OT: FETWICK is just about finished. Once we get through the holidays we're going to finish up post-sound. It's a very crazy goof-ball comedy that couldn't be more polar opposite to EXPIRED. Roughly 45 minutes.
OT: THE DEAD is a gothic-noir-thriller that was shot in 1998 before The Matrix, Underworld and Kill Bill came out. Unfortunately, because it took so long to finish, those film's plots, visual design have killed any potential my film might've had. I doubt I'll ever finish it now (despite constant pressure from my cast and crew). We may release it Onliine via my website even though it'll get hammered for being "derivative".
Now really. That's the first time I've heard that claim. You'll need to support it. I'll tell you what WAS created during Clinton's terms: A total disregard for national security. Clinton was offered bin laden in 1996 and turned him down. Clinton did nothing about the embassy bombings and the USS Cole. He launched a few cruise missles and laid waste to some aspirin factories...but what was accomplished to increase security during HIS terms? I seem to remembver a little nuke deal wtih North Korea.
SDW! God are you at this again? ( Head shakes ). Your right about one thing Clinton wasn't a warmonger. A great leader knows when to attack ( and for the right reasons ). Clinton handled this much better than Dubbya. Besides he knew we had work to do here at home to make are country strong financially. Something that our current leader doesn't seem to grasp.
When I read these posts, I tend to filter out the blatant partisanship displayed by both extremes. You guys know who you are!
I think that there is a place where agreement lies, I feel it is somewhere in the middle. Right?
As far as Clinton V. Bush: Running a country is so much more complicated than any of us realize. There is no way Clinton had the time he needed to dedicate to important things, he was too busy defending against his actions. I know, I know, some will say it was the republican's fault or the independent counsel or what have you. But the fact remains he could not have done as good a job as the current Pres. if only taking that into account.
Clinton had a habit of taking issues from his opposition to form a direction of his presidency. This President was confronted by a major problem and took on a cause to fight terrorism. Agree or not with the methods you can respect his steadfastness. Clinton was primarily a peacetime president. GWB has had a war brought to his doorstep. Comparisons, to me, seem a bit lacking. It's a whole new ball-game.
I am sure President Clinton was a good guy and he did a lot of good things, And, I would Imagine that if your were President you would too. Clinton was human and made human mistakes. I think you all should get over it on both sides. Live in the here an now.
Al-qaeda hit the US and the every wacky Muslim group cheered and considered it a rallying cry. Saddam praised it, they all did. The wacko wing of Islam declared war on the US and freedom, if all of the other terrorist acts did not convince anyone. All of us here are their enemy whether we like it or not. get used to it.
As far as WMD, all of you lefties will be eating your accusations, IMO, very soon. There has been rumors about proof of nuclear material being sent out of Iraq, along with eyewitnesses. Next week will be very interesting, I think.
Comments
Originally posted by BuonRotto
There's obviously a difference between being safer and being safe. Those in denial either think that nothing has been done, or they think that it's all safe now. I see a lot more of the former in here than the latter.
Technically, I'm safer driving at 80MPH rather than driving at 120MPH. But I really want to drive 120 so I installed Z rated tires rather than V rated tires. I feel a lot safer now, rather than just safe.
It's all relative. Look, the chances of you or I getting killed by a new terrorist attack are slim. But, I refuse to allow this false sense of security to be used as political gain by the current administration. It's intellectually dishonest. So, yeah, I will counter that claim vigorously.
WE ARE NOT SAFER THAN WE WERE FOUR YEARS AGO!
Originally posted by Northgate
That's a pretty astonishing charge and one would hope he had his facts absolutely straight. He doesn't. His entire case is centered around a Pakistani named Mansoor Ijaz. Sandy Berger only had to meet with him once to realize he was an unreliable freelancer, pursuing his own financial interests. Ijaz wanted sanctions lifted off Sudanese oil and tried bartering Bin Laden. Why didn't we negotiate? First, we don't negotiate with terrorist states. Two, because Sudan remains a notorious sponsor of terrorism, harboring Hamas, Hazbollah, and al Qaeda. Third, Sudan is the leading state sponsor of slavery and is considered by many to be genocidal. However, the US pursued every lead and tried to negotiate. Nothing.
The good news is that Moonsor Ijaz now has a job as foreign affairs analyst for Fox News. Surprise surprise.
I knew I was forgetting something. It's been a few months since I read that book.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
So the measure of "safety" is a political one?
I don't know. According the Carl Rove it is.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Merry Christmas
Originally posted by giant
I knew I was forgetting something. It's been a few months since I read that book.
Well, I did paraphrase.
Doesn't change the facts though.
Originally posted by Northgate
Well, I did paraphrase.
Doesn't change the facts though.
BTW: I downloaded expired about a month ago. Very cool. Are the other two available anywhere?
The fact that 9/11 proved to terror entities that a major attack on the US could be effected, opened the door for every wacky extremist group to follow suit. The fact that no other attack on US soil since proves that our government is taking serious measures to keep it's citizens safe as possible.
Giant, I know you will probably disagree with this, but who knows how many attempts have been thwarted by different agencies in our government.
Safety is relative, I will agree. But to state we are no safer than before 9/11 goes in the face of mounting evidence otherwise. And to imply that GWB is making token measures to achieve greater safety just because you are on the opposite end of the political spectrum, is blatantly irresponsible.
There are people on this earth that have decided that everything is America's and Israel's fault. They are banding together as we speek. They have decided that your life and the lives of your family should be cut short, if they have anything to do with it. You are the enemy, even if you think you are not. They care little about your political leanings. Stating "Wait, I am a liberal Democrat, I defend your cause!" will not save you from their hatred. Sending brotherly love or gifts will not make them like you. Understanding why they hate you will not prevent them from wanting to kill you. You and your children mean nothing to them, except maybe another notch on their gun-stalk. You should come to grips with sooner or later.
Like I said the greatest promoter of safety is involvement in your community.
Originally posted by NaplesX
Giant, I know you will probably disagree with this, but who knows how many attempts have been thwarted by different agencies in our government.
There was a very real threat to the Brooklyn Bridge that the NYPD claimed was stopped because of the stepped up security here.
Like I said earlier, if anyone is going to be a target it's us in NYC. Hell we've been attacked twice.
Originally posted by giant
BTW: I downloaded expired about a month ago. Very cool. Are the other two available anywhere?
Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it.
OT: FETWICK is just about finished. Once we get through the holidays we're going to finish up post-sound. It's a very crazy goof-ball comedy that couldn't be more polar opposite to EXPIRED. Roughly 45 minutes.
OT: THE DEAD is a gothic-noir-thriller that was shot in 1998 before The Matrix, Underworld and Kill Bill came out. Unfortunately, because it took so long to finish, those film's plots, visual design have killed any potential my film might've had. I doubt I'll ever finish it now (despite constant pressure from my cast and crew). We may release it Onliine via my website even though it'll get hammered for being "derivative".
Merry Christmas!
Robert
Originally posted by SDW2001
Now really. That's the first time I've heard that claim. You'll need to support it. I'll tell you what WAS created during Clinton's terms: A total disregard for national security. Clinton was offered bin laden in 1996 and turned him down. Clinton did nothing about the embassy bombings and the USS Cole. He launched a few cruise missles and laid waste to some aspirin factories...but what was accomplished to increase security during HIS terms? I seem to remembver a little nuke deal wtih North Korea.
SDW! God are you at this again? ( Head shakes ). Your right about one thing Clinton wasn't a warmonger. A great leader knows when to attack ( and for the right reasons ). Clinton handled this much better than Dubbya. Besides he knew we had work to do here at home to make are country strong financially. Something that our current leader doesn't seem to grasp.
Deficit, deficit, dance to the music!
When I read these posts, I tend to filter out the blatant partisanship displayed by both extremes. You guys know who you are!
I think that there is a place where agreement lies, I feel it is somewhere in the middle. Right?
As far as Clinton V. Bush: Running a country is so much more complicated than any of us realize. There is no way Clinton had the time he needed to dedicate to important things, he was too busy defending against his actions. I know, I know, some will say it was the republican's fault or the independent counsel or what have you. But the fact remains he could not have done as good a job as the current Pres. if only taking that into account.
Clinton had a habit of taking issues from his opposition to form a direction of his presidency. This President was confronted by a major problem and took on a cause to fight terrorism. Agree or not with the methods you can respect his steadfastness. Clinton was primarily a peacetime president. GWB has had a war brought to his doorstep. Comparisons, to me, seem a bit lacking. It's a whole new ball-game.
I am sure President Clinton was a good guy and he did a lot of good things, And, I would Imagine that if your were President you would too. Clinton was human and made human mistakes. I think you all should get over it on both sides. Live in the here an now.
My 2 cents.....
Are you sure he didn't bring the war to our doorstep?
Originally posted by jimmac
" GWB has had a war brought to his doorstep "
Are you sure he didn't bring the war to our doorstep?
Or are you talking about the first one with Afganistan?
Or maybe the war on terrorism? I have to say I would have been much more impressed if they had caught Osama instead of Saddam.
Originally posted by jimmac
" GWB has had a war brought to his doorstep "
Are you sure he didn't bring the war to our doorstep?
pay attention class;
That was a good example of partisan wackiness.
Originally posted by NaplesX
pay attention class;
That was a good example of partisan wackiness.
Nope! It's all in what you mean and how you look at it.
Was it wacky that he lied about the situation in Iraq?
Al-qaeda hit the US and the every wacky Muslim group cheered and considered it a rallying cry. Saddam praised it, they all did. The wacko wing of Islam declared war on the US and freedom, if all of the other terrorist acts did not convince anyone. All of us here are their enemy whether we like it or not. get used to it.
As far as WMD, all of you lefties will be eating your accusations, IMO, very soon. There has been rumors about proof of nuclear material being sent out of Iraq, along with eyewitnesses. Next week will be very interesting, I think.
My .02
Originally posted by xenu
So, have you lot in America been blown up, or was this just another scare brought to you by the totally clueless?
Heh?