UI inconsistencies

homhom
Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
These are two quickies that bother me to no end.





This is a destructive behavior. Shouldn't the default action be to cancel rather than erase the emails?







The downloads window does not show up in the dock menu. Is it not a real window? I don't get this behavior at all.



Any other UI issues that drive you nuts?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 65
    lucaluca Posts: 3,833member
    I don't care about the "destructive behavior" thing, I told it to erase the messages and damn it, I don't want to have to use the mouse to click the okay button when I can just hit return and do what I intended to do in the first place. That bugs me - anytime there are excessive warning dialogs for everything. Sure, I wouldn't mind one for Safari if I try to close the window or quit the application when there are a bunch of tabs open, but I've noticed (when using Windows, mind you) that it asks confirmation to move a file to the trash, and also confirmation to erase it. These warnings can be turned off but it's still annoying. And if each of these warnings had "No" as the default then it would just be twice as bad.



    I do dislike the Downloads window in Safari, and other similar windows - like the file transfer windows in iChat. When switching windows using the cmd-` keystroke, it goes to the Downloads window between every switch. So if I have two windows and the downloads window open, it goes:



    Window 1

    Downloads

    Window 2

    Downloads

    Window 1

    Downloads

    etc.



    when it should go...



    Window 1

    Window 2

    Downloads

    Window 1

    Window 2

    Downloads

    etc.



    That does get annoying. However, for the most part, OS X is great UI design. It's easy and even fun to use. Windows is pretty pathetic in comparison. You can't even keep an application open without having any of that application's windows open.
  • Reply 2 of 65
    defiantdefiant Posts: 4,876member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Luca Rescigno

    Windows is pretty pathetic in comparison. You can't even keep an application open without having any of that application's windows open.



    Well, there are such inconsistencies here too. In the OS 10 world, I mean. For example: The system preferences quit as soon as you close it's window - iPhoto does the same too. But iTunes and iChat don't quit if you close their last window. I only noticed the system preferences thing in 10.3, I don't know if it was like that before.



    Maybe this is a difference between single window apps and multiple window apps. iTunes is also a single window app, and you can run it 'headless', but you can't do the same with the system preferences.



    It's just not consistent. Of course, these things depend on the developer, but if all apps tested here come from Apple... \



    Do I see this right, or was this behavior as intended?
  • Reply 3 of 65
    paulpaul Posts: 5,278member
    thats new in 10.3 and NO it is NOT correct!
  • Reply 4 of 65
    aqua apps titlebar widgets look wierd



    inactive apps have shadow funkiness - look for little lines in the shadow on a solid background...
  • Reply 5 of 65
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    The mail deletion dialog is just plain WRONG according to Apple HIG.



    The Safari Downloads window is a utility window (at least, it acts like it even if it looks just like a normal one... grrr....). The Mail Activity window shows the same behaviour when flipping between windows with Cmd-`. Annoying. I suspect it's a bug in the Cocoa frameworks, since it happens across apps. (OmniGraffle gets bitten by this too, I believe, with it's Info palettes.)
  • Reply 6 of 65
    pbpb Posts: 4,233member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Defiant

    iTunes is also a single window app, and you can run it 'headless', but you can't do the same with the system preferences.





    iTunes is a two-window application; there is the equalizer window.
  • Reply 7 of 65
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PB

    iTunes is a two-window application; there is the equalizer window.



    iTunes is a multi-window application. Playlists can be opened in their own windows too.
  • Reply 8 of 65
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by torifile

    iTunes is a multi-window application. Playlists can be opened in their own windows too.



    As can the Music Store.



    iPhoto is also a multi-window application, but the bastardized red-widget behavior obfuscates things. Here we go again... Once more unto the breach.
  • Reply 9 of 65
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    oh geez, HOM, why'd you have to re-open this can o' worms? AI members have lost fingers typing comments into threads like these.



    look, there are GUI inconsistencies all over the damn place in OS X, almost every version. only thing i can figure is that each team has its own final approval process, but there's no final teams to make sure everything is consistent ACROSS those apps. or if there is, they're given so little time before golden master that they can only do minor tweaks before they start the duping process.



    my guess is that the new tools apple ships offer way more flexibility n gui design, but at the cost of not being able to hold anyone to any established guidelines. though i have to imagine this has always been the case.
  • Reply 10 of 65
    homhom Posts: 1,098member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rok

    oh geez, HOM, why'd you have to re-open this can o' worms? AI members have lost fingers typing comments into threads like these.



    look, there are GUI inconsistencies all over the damn place in OS X, almost every version. only thing i can figure is that each team has its own final approval process, but there's no final teams to make sure everything is consistent ACROSS those apps. or if there is, they're given so little time before golden master that they can only do minor tweaks before they start the duping process.



    my guess is that the new tools apple ships offer way more flexibility n gui design, but at the cost of not being able to hold anyone to any established guidelines. though i have to imagine this has always been the case.




    Sorry for the inconvenience



    The reason I brought this up was first the Mail.app thing really pisses me off. Destructive behavior should have the nullification option as the default.



    The other reason I think it's important is that under Mac OS 9 and earlier UI consistency was one of the most important hallmarks. That's why it was so easy to learn. It acted one way in one app, it acts the same way in all apps. However, the norm from Apple now seems to be worry about functionality first and UI design second even if it is a clear violation of the HIG.
  • Reply 11 of 65
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by HOM

    The reason I brought this up was first the Mail.app thing really pisses me off. Destructive behavior should have the nullification option as the default.





    You realize that you're not pointing out INCONSISTENT behavior, just possibly unwise behavior. Empty the trash in the finder. If you don't have warnings disabled, you'll notice it's the same thing as the mail dialog. That's the way it should be. This isn't windows. I don't want to have click through 15 dialog boxes to make sure I REALLY REALLY want to do something.
  • Reply 12 of 65
    homhom Posts: 1,098member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by torifile

    You realize that you're not pointing out INCONSISTENT behavior, just possibly unwise behavior. Empty the trash in the finder. If you don't have warnings disabled, you'll notice it's the same thing as the mail dialog. That's the way it should be. This isn't windows. I don't want to have click through 15 dialog boxes to make sure I REALLY REALLY want to do something.







    iTunes provides the proper behavior when removing an item from the library.



    Even Apple agrees with me that the default behavior should not be the destructive behavior.

    Quote:

    Originally written by Apple's HIG

    Don?t use a default button if the most likely action is dangerous?for example, if it causes a loss of user data. When there is no default button, pressing Return or Enter has no effect; the user must explicitly click a button. This guideline protects users from accidentally damaging their work by pressing Return or Enter. You can consider using a safe default button, such as Cancel.



    This just goes to show my point. Apple can't get their own act together. The Finder, Mail.app, Address Book.app, iPhoto, ect get it wrong.
  • Reply 13 of 65
    ipeonipeon Posts: 1,122member
    The day we have NO inconsistencies in our, or any UI, will be the day we stop using computers. Don'tcha ya-all know absolutes are unattainable.



    Preferences is more like it... and the minute you go there you get nuked by the other guy.
  • Reply 14 of 65
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by HOM





    iTunes provides the proper behavior when removing an item from the library.



    Even Apple agrees with me that the default behavior should not be the destructive behavior.





    This just goes to show my point. Apple can't get their own act together. The Finder, Mail.app, Address Book.app, iPhoto, ect get it wrong.




    But if you're talking about inconsistency, it would seem that iTunes is the inconsistent one. I'm not debating whether a default should be one or another button. I'm just pointing out that the behavior you pointed out is more consistent than what you'd like to see.
  • Reply 15 of 65
    homhom Posts: 1,098member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by torifile

    But if you're talking about inconsistency, it would seem that iTunes is the inconsistent one. I'm not debating whether a default should be one or another button. I'm just pointing out that the behavior you pointed out is more consistent than what you'd like to see.



    I think the problem lies in that Apple is not eating its own dog food. Other application developers follow Apple's HIG to make their apps "feel like a Mac app". Apple however doesn't do it on a consistent basis.



    Safari is another application that is consistent with the HIG, but not with the other applications that I mentioned.





    So is Disk Utility

  • Reply 16 of 65
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by HOM

    Sorry for the inconvenience





    no, we'll ALL be sorry if both eugene and kim kap sol get in here together.
  • Reply 17 of 65
    evoevo Posts: 198member
    Yeah, it's true that interface inconsistencies are all over OS X. The Finder is a prime example of this. Here's a few inconcistencies that really irk me:



    - The Finder and Mail should have alternating background colors (white/blue like in iTunes, iChat, Safari bookmarks, etc.) but they don't. They should be in Mail for the message list box (and you can activate them by modifying one of the .nibs). Finder should have the background colors for List View. This might sound picky, but having that alternating background color really makes reading long lists of text easier.



    - If I delete a contact from Address Book, the contact below that one is left selected. In List/Column View in the Finder, if I delete anything, nothing is left selected. In Mail, if I delete a message, the message above that one is left selected. This is rediculous! Having this inconsistent behavior between these 3 apps (which cover all possible cases for deleting something) makes it downright frustrating when you want to delete a list of items 1 by 1. I believe Address Book's delete-then-select-the-thing-below-it method is the best.
  • Reply 18 of 65
    homhom Posts: 1,098member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rok

    no, we'll ALL be sorry if both eugene and kim kap sol get in here together.



    Notice how I have avoided using the "T" word
  • Reply 19 of 65
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    Tap?

    Tub?
  • Reply 20 of 65
    paulpaul Posts: 5,278member
    Taq

    Tad

    Tob

    Teb

    Tib





    getting there...





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