Damn... didn't hear Trumpt complaining about Max Cleland's image put up with Osama's.
The submission was on Bushin60seconds.org not moveon.org. However they are sponsoring the contest.
The complaints were by VOTERS on the site! LIBERALS didn't like the ad!
You have to register to vote. Conservatives didn't get the ad removed from the contest... LIBERALS did.
Maybe Trumpt should start a topic...
BUSH IS NOT EQUAL TO HITLER ACCORDING TO LIBERALS.
or:
Conservatives make a big deal about something that no longer can be seen.
I don't recall you starting a topic on Max Cleland being compared to Osama.
Is this going to be another one of THOSE threads where you complain I don't advocate your views for you in addition to my own views? If you don't like something, start a thread.
As for the voting, it wasn't claimed the ad was voted out. It was claimed that moveon.org received so many complaints they took it down. The complaints can be received by other means. Would you care to prove your assertion that the voting is what caused the ad to be removed?
So the the right is getting all antsy now? They are perpetually throwing the harshest, hateful, bigoted filth at their opposition on the left, santioned by big media corporations. Now they start bawling, bleating and get all offended when they get a dose of their own medicine. If the right, who own and control virtually 95% of the media that American people hear, see, and read cant handle a bit of the rough stuff in return, then they should shut the fvck up, or learn that in a free speech society, you have to take the hits, as well as throw them.
Don't forget that these days, if you publicly oppose the Bush Adminstration policies (for example by appearing in an anti-war demonstration, belonging to a pro-environmental group or even writing "the wrong" letter to a newspaper) you may be deemed by the FBI as a potential terrorist, and be banned from flying on an airplane. The FBI's "no-fly list" stood at around 5700 people in September 2003, Even Al Franken, a public figure, had extreme difficulty boarding a flight not so long ago. I guess he wrote the wrong book.
The First Amendment still applies in the US, provided you don't speak out against Bush.
The left has it's share as well. Hymietown. NAACP ad linking Bush with the dragging death of a black man.
As for your conspiracy claims. Prove them or don't be surprised when they... and you are dismissed by the majority of people yet again.
Anyone knows that there is plenty, plenty of hateful stuff on the right, such as daily, constantly, everywhere on any number of right-wing talk shows in the U.S. How about when my country is called "Soviet Canuckestan", as one small but pertinent example? Sure it was a comment from a somewhat fringe element in the United States, but was not soundly denounced and was considered good for a few laughs even by the moderate right. Where is the self-rightous outrage about comparing a capitalist democracy - admitedly a fairly liberal capitalist democracy - but a capitalist democracy just the same - with a communist dictatorship that murdered more than the Nazis?
But liberals come to expect such behaviour from the right, so it is hardly worth comment, by them or anyone else. The right wing does not expect such comments from liberals, and correctly so....
Anyone knows?? Please prove this. When Michael Savage makes a hateful comment (not that I consider him a member of the right) he is fired. I think it was Larry Elder who has taken great pleasure in posting numerous quotes from liberals who have wished conservatives dead. Last time I checked no one fired. No one even condemned.
Plus... you haven't even seen the ad... because it's been pulled.
So what exactly are you bellyaching about? Someone made a dumb ad for a contest. People complained... it was pulled.
Prove to me that it WASN'T the people who were visiting the site daily to vote? The VAST majority are democrats.
The only place it was shown was on the contest site...
The whole topic is a rube.
Claiming we're hypocrits when it's obvious were pretty good at tempering what should and should not be said.
I said it was pulled due to complaints. You claimed it was liberals who complained and got it pulled via the voting and thus I should change the thread title. Support your claim.
I'm not going to try to prove a negative to you. I have seen the ad, and you can too since a copy of it was grabbed by the RNC. Drudge linked to it as well.
That's a very different scenario than what you've put in the title of this thread. Is there a disclainer similar to those when a TV channel claims that the 'views expressed aren't those of the station' or whatever the hell else they say?
If what you're saying here is correct, then you're posting the same type of garbage I criticized you for in the 'Dean wants to blow up Vermont' thread.
As for the validity of the idea, I'd say Bush going into Iraq is about as well received by the international community as Hitler going into Poland.
Dont start that again. The percentage of nations behind the iraq war is more than those behind WWII. I think I proved that in the other thread.
Dont start that again. The percentage of nations behind the iraq war is more than those behind WWII. I think I proved that in the other thread.
You guys are all silly.
I will wrap up this thread like this:
The ad, whoever it was created by, was inflammatory and wrong. It should restore our faith in people in general that it was rejected and pulled from whatever site it was hosted on. Apparently, there is a collective conscience. We should all be happy about that.
The same thing happened with the "reagan movie" and it was a good thing. let's move on and try to be intellectually honest and it won't happen again.
How about when my country is called "Soviet Canuckestan", as one small but pertinent example? Sure it was a comment from a somewhat fringe element in the United States, but was not soundly denounced and was considered good for a few laughs even by the moderate right.
Soviet Canuckistan? Hahaha. Ahem. Yeah, that's disgusting. Canuckistan. Pffftttt. Hahahehe. Err. Sorry. Right. That's bad. You're either with us or against us Chinney!
[edit] I've noticed what I think is a trend lately among the right wing. They take quotes of supposed liberals from a variety of sources and use them to characterize the mainstream liberal position.
Andrewsullivan.com does this almost daily - someone will submit to him what some anonymous person on a forum like this said, and he'll post it "Bush is such a Nazi" with the heading "this is what the left thinks about our president." I've seen other right-wing sources, like opinionjournal.com, do similar (yes, I read many of them regularly). They also takes quotes from major figures, but mix them in with not-so-major figures and even anonymous posters on forums like the Dean forums or the NYTimes forums.
It's completely fair if it's a major figure. John Kerry said we needed regime change in the US, and lots of people in the right wing pounced on it. Fair enough. But when they take posts off of bulletin boards, or ads that can be submitted by anyone, that's not fair. How do we know that some right-winger didn't do these things to make liberals look bad? I wouldn't put it past them. And even if it's not, who knows who said these things? Are they really representative of liberals in general?
My guess is that this will be a major theme of the election campaign from the Republican side. We can expect to see a lot more of this, especially if (when) Dean becomes the nominee. That's going to be the main criticism of him - the "angry left." They're going to run more of those ads showing Dean supposedly foaming at the mouth during one of his speeches. Haven't they already run one like that?
Just a warning. Liberals need to be careful how we criticize Bush, and be ready to quickly condemn criticisms that go too far. It's going to be the game over the next year.
So Drudge says MoveOn.org "featured" the ad on their site. Does that mean it was allowed to be voted on by members just like any other submission, or does that mean it was displayed more prominently than other ads?
I mean you're really not telling us much here. So far all we know is that MoveOn.org sponsored an ad contest called Bushin30seconds.org. One of the submissions compared Bush to Hitler. MoveOn removed the submission after it was posted. Hmm. \
What I want to know is what happened precisely, and you're pretty much only going on "Bush=Hitler according to MoveOn.org."
Comments
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Damn... didn't hear Trumpt complaining about Max Cleland's image put up with Osama's.
The submission was on Bushin60seconds.org not moveon.org. However they are sponsoring the contest.
The complaints were by VOTERS on the site! LIBERALS didn't like the ad!
You have to register to vote. Conservatives didn't get the ad removed from the contest... LIBERALS did.
Maybe Trumpt should start a topic...
BUSH IS NOT EQUAL TO HITLER ACCORDING TO LIBERALS.
or:
Conservatives make a big deal about something that no longer can be seen.
I don't recall you starting a topic on Max Cleland being compared to Osama.
Is this going to be another one of THOSE threads where you complain I don't advocate your views for you in addition to my own views? If you don't like something, start a thread.
As for the voting, it wasn't claimed the ad was voted out. It was claimed that moveon.org received so many complaints they took it down. The complaints can be received by other means. Would you care to prove your assertion that the voting is what caused the ad to be removed?
Thought not...
Nick
Originally posted by sammi jo
awww.....dear dear....my liberal heart bleeds.
So the the right is getting all antsy now? They are perpetually throwing the harshest, hateful, bigoted filth at their opposition on the left, santioned by big media corporations. Now they start bawling, bleating and get all offended when they get a dose of their own medicine. If the right, who own and control virtually 95% of the media that American people hear, see, and read cant handle a bit of the rough stuff in return, then they should shut the fvck up, or learn that in a free speech society, you have to take the hits, as well as throw them.
Don't forget that these days, if you publicly oppose the Bush Adminstration policies (for example by appearing in an anti-war demonstration, belonging to a pro-environmental group or even writing "the wrong" letter to a newspaper) you may be deemed by the FBI as a potential terrorist, and be banned from flying on an airplane. The FBI's "no-fly list" stood at around 5700 people in September 2003, Even Al Franken, a public figure, had extreme difficulty boarding a flight not so long ago. I guess he wrote the wrong book.
The First Amendment still applies in the US, provided you don't speak out against Bush.
The left has it's share as well. Hymietown. NAACP ad linking Bush with the dragging death of a black man.
As for your conspiracy claims. Prove them or don't be surprised when they... and you are dismissed by the majority of people yet again.
Nick
Originally posted by Chinney
Anyone knows that there is plenty, plenty of hateful stuff on the right, such as daily, constantly, everywhere on any number of right-wing talk shows in the U.S. How about when my country is called "Soviet Canuckestan", as one small but pertinent example? Sure it was a comment from a somewhat fringe element in the United States, but was not soundly denounced and was considered good for a few laughs even by the moderate right. Where is the self-rightous outrage about comparing a capitalist democracy - admitedly a fairly liberal capitalist democracy - but a capitalist democracy just the same - with a communist dictatorship that murdered more than the Nazis?
But liberals come to expect such behaviour from the right, so it is hardly worth comment, by them or anyone else. The right wing does not expect such comments from liberals, and correctly so....
Anyone knows?? Please prove this. When Michael Savage makes a hateful comment (not that I consider him a member of the right) he is fired. I think it was Larry Elder who has taken great pleasure in posting numerous quotes from liberals who have wished conservatives dead. Last time I checked no one fired. No one even condemned.
Stop chasing your tail.
Nick
Originally posted by bunge
They encouraged ads, not this ad. They host and post links to how many? Are they even reviewed or is it an automated process?
You don't even care. All you want to do is discredit them without supporting your claim. Great.
Where the hell on the moveon.org site was the ad even posted? I looked briefly but couldn't find anything.
Originally posted by bunge
They encouraged ads, not this ad. They host and post links to how many? Are they even reviewed or is it an automated process?
You don't even care. All you want to do is discredit them without supporting your claim. Great.
Where the hell on the moveon.org site was the ad even posted? I looked briefly but couldn't find anything.
Feeling neglected bunge?
You have to post something worth responding to. I supported. I care. I mentioned they pulled the ad. Get over it.
Nick
Plus... you haven't even seen the ad... because it's been pulled.
So what exactly are you bellyaching about? Someone made a dumb ad for a contest. People complained... it was pulled.
Prove to me that it WASN'T the people who were visiting the site daily to vote? The VAST majority are democrats.
The only place it was shown was on the contest site...
The whole topic is a rube.
Claiming we're hypocrits when it's obvious were pretty good at tempering what should and should not be said.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
The ad was NOT featured on Moveon.org.
Plus... you haven't even seen the ad... because it's been pulled.
So what exactly are you bellyaching about? Someone made a dumb ad for a contest. People complained... it was pulled.
Prove to me that it WASN'T the people who were visiting the site daily to vote? The VAST majority are democrats.
The only place it was shown was on the contest site...
The whole topic is a rube.
Claiming we're hypocrits when it's obvious were pretty good at tempering what should and should not be said.
I said it was pulled due to complaints. You claimed it was liberals who complained and got it pulled via the voting and thus I should change the thread title. Support your claim.
I'm not going to try to prove a negative to you. I have seen the ad, and you can too since a copy of it was grabbed by the RNC. Drudge linked to it as well.
Nick
Moveon didn't create the ad. So your topic is wrong.
Originally posted by bunge
That's a very different scenario than what you've put in the title of this thread. Is there a disclainer similar to those when a TV channel claims that the 'views expressed aren't those of the station' or whatever the hell else they say?
If what you're saying here is correct, then you're posting the same type of garbage I criticized you for in the 'Dean wants to blow up Vermont' thread.
As for the validity of the idea, I'd say Bush going into Iraq is about as well received by the international community as Hitler going into Poland.
Dont start that again. The percentage of nations behind the iraq war is more than those behind WWII. I think I proved that in the other thread.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
It wasn't shown on Moveon. So your topic is wrong.
Moveon didn't create the ad. So your topic is wrong.
Yeah and Apple doesn't own quicktime since you can get it at quicktime.com instead of going through Apple.com
Domain ID
Domain Name:BUSHIN30SECONDS.ORG
Created On:14-Oct-2003 11:10:53 UTC
Last Updated On:14-Dec-2003 04:12:15 UTC
Expiration Date:14-Oct-2004 11:10:53 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:R71-LROR
Status:OK
Registrant ID:C30915110-RCOM
Registrant Name:Eli Pariser
Registrant Organization:EliPariser
Registrant Street1:452W57thSt
Registrant City:NewYork
Registrant State/Province:NY
Registrant Postal Code:10019
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.6463266333
Registrant Email:[email protected]
Admin ID:C37148926-RCOM
Admin Name:Eli Pariser
Admin Organization:EliPariser
Admin Street1:POBox9063
Admin City:Berkeley
Admin State/Province:CA
Admin Postal Code:94709
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.112223333
Admin Email:[email protected]
Tech ID:C1-RCOM
Tech Name
Tech Organization:Register.Com
Tech Street1:575 8th Avenue
Tech City:New York
Tech State/Province:NY
Tech Postal Code:10018
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.9027492701
Tech Email:[email protected]
Name Server
Name Server
Gee, moveon.org owns the domain, but it doesn't say moveon.org in the url so it must not be them....
You are laughable.
Nick
Originally posted by NaplesX
Dont start that again. The percentage of nations behind the iraq war is more than those behind WWII. I think I proved that in the other thread.
You guys are all silly.
I will wrap up this thread like this:
The ad, whoever it was created by, was inflammatory and wrong. It should restore our faith in people in general that it was rejected and pulled from whatever site it was hosted on. Apparently, there is a collective conscience. We should all be happy about that.
The same thing happened with the "reagan movie" and it was a good thing. let's move on and try to be intellectually honest and it won't happen again.
Did they create the ad?
The topic here is a lie and you know it.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Percentage of nations? How many islands are on the list? funny.
"Maybe someone with the hard research can comment here.
Let's see:
16 (by my count) nations out 60 (It was 60) = 27% of the nations in the LoN
current coalition = 90+ countries
security counsel members involved in current battle = 5
so 5 out of 15 = 33%"
Do the math.
Originally posted by Chinney
How about when my country is called "Soviet Canuckestan", as one small but pertinent example? Sure it was a comment from a somewhat fringe element in the United States, but was not soundly denounced and was considered good for a few laughs even by the moderate right.
Soviet Canuckistan? Hahaha. Ahem. Yeah, that's disgusting. Canuckistan. Pffftttt. Hahahehe. Err. Sorry. Right. That's bad. You're either with us or against us Chinney!
[edit] I've noticed what I think is a trend lately among the right wing. They take quotes of supposed liberals from a variety of sources and use them to characterize the mainstream liberal position.
Andrewsullivan.com does this almost daily - someone will submit to him what some anonymous person on a forum like this said, and he'll post it "Bush is such a Nazi" with the heading "this is what the left thinks about our president." I've seen other right-wing sources, like opinionjournal.com, do similar (yes, I read many of them regularly). They also takes quotes from major figures, but mix them in with not-so-major figures and even anonymous posters on forums like the Dean forums or the NYTimes forums.
It's completely fair if it's a major figure. John Kerry said we needed regime change in the US, and lots of people in the right wing pounced on it. Fair enough. But when they take posts off of bulletin boards, or ads that can be submitted by anyone, that's not fair. How do we know that some right-winger didn't do these things to make liberals look bad? I wouldn't put it past them. And even if it's not, who knows who said these things? Are they really representative of liberals in general?
My guess is that this will be a major theme of the election campaign from the Republican side. We can expect to see a lot more of this, especially if (when) Dean becomes the nominee. That's going to be the main criticism of him - the "angry left." They're going to run more of those ads showing Dean supposedly foaming at the mouth during one of his speeches. Haven't they already run one like that?
Just a warning. Liberals need to be careful how we criticize Bush, and be ready to quickly condemn criticisms that go too far. It's going to be the game over the next year.
So how many of those Leage Of Nation nations had "colonies" that are islands and now independant nations.
We could also debate the percantage of the world's population that supports or doesn't support the war...
Which would be tough because China opposed it.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
hehe... this is a good history topic... and completely irrelevant.
So how many of those Leage Of Nation nations had "colonies" that are islands and now independant nations.
We could also debate the percantage of the world's population that supports or doesn't support the war...
Which would be tough because China opposed it.
Give us a break. I was just encouraging bunge to quit spreading half truths.
You can argue and try to pick it apart all you want. Just don't sit here and verbally crap like what he said.
Originally posted by NaplesX
Give us a break. I was just encouraging bunge to quit spreading half truths.
You can argue and try to pick it apart all you want. Just don't sit here and verbally crap like what he said.
You're not making sense. We're debating LoN vs. UN...
and different points in history... and then saying there was more support for the Present war than there was for our involvement in WW2.
And you're saying I'm pulling verbal crap?
Originally posted by trumptman
Buy a dictionary oh parser of many words.
Nick
So Drudge says MoveOn.org "featured" the ad on their site. Does that mean it was allowed to be voted on by members just like any other submission, or does that mean it was displayed more prominently than other ads?
I mean you're really not telling us much here. So far all we know is that MoveOn.org sponsored an ad contest called Bushin30seconds.org. One of the submissions compared Bush to Hitler. MoveOn removed the submission after it was posted. Hmm.
What I want to know is what happened precisely, and you're pretty much only going on "Bush=Hitler according to MoveOn.org."