You know, why not look at iLife as a boombox and Apple as Sony.
Say Sony has a boobox out for $49. It's a very nice boombox and does more than enough for the people who bought it. But, then Phillips and Panasonic come out with boomboxes that are also $49. And while not as good as the Sony boombox, they draw some level or attention away from the Sony. So, Sony introduces the 'B' version of their $49 boombox, and its even better than before, and does what it is supposed to do, which is help take back the attention that its competitors took away.
But what if you're an owner of the 'A' version of the boombox? It still does everything you want it to, and it works well, and was still great for the price. But now the 'B' is out... do you have to go run out and buy it you wonder? NO YOU DONT YOU ****!
So instead of pissing and moaning about your now obsolete Sony, go pop in that crappy Britney Spears that you love so much, and humm REALLY loud along with Britney until you forget about the fact that you are a ****!
IT"S A F***ING STEAL! I don't use iMovie(I use FCP) or iDVD(I use DVDSP) but I will sure as hell use GarageBand. That alone is worth $49. If they sold that as a standalone for $49, I am sure there are a loooooooot of people that would buy it.
iLife is a great suite for consumers. There is NOTHING on the PC that can compare, free or otherwise.
Everyone has made their points. If you don't want to pay then don't pay. I am sure no one will notice.
Also, as someone mentioned earlier, you bought iLife because you wanted iDVD right? If you don't use iDVD then you didn't need to buy it, because everything else was a freedownload. And even the first iLife was worth $49. Do you know how long it takes to create templates? It is a time consuming process. Also with the new iLife you get upgrades for all the apps, and a whole new program to boot. You aren't upgrading GarageBand, it is totally new.
You know, why not look at iLife as a boombox and Apple as Sony.
Say Sony has a boobox out for $49. It's a very nice boombox and does more than enough for the people who bought it. But, then Phillips and Panasonic come out with boomboxes that are also $49. And while not as good as the Sony boombox, they draw some level or attention away from the Sony. So, Sony introduces the 'B' version of their $49 boombox, and its even better than before, and does what it is supposed to do, which is help take back the attention that its competitors took away.
But what if you're an owner of the 'A' version of the boombox? It still does everything you want it to, and it works well, and was still great for the price. But now the 'B' is out... do you have to go run out and buy it you wonder? NO YOU DONT YOU F*CKING DUMB*ASS!
So instead of pissing and whining about your now obsolete Sony, go pop in that crappy Britney Spears that you love so much, and humm REALLY load along with Britney until you forget about the fact that you are a ****!
Gosh. You make such a convincing argument. I don't know. Maybe I was wrong. But just for the sake of encouraging a little thought...
Do you remember going to Disney World? There was more there than you could enjoy in just one day. Surprises were around every corner. People treated you better than you had been treated before. Perhaps that wasn't your experience with Disney, but it is their intention. They rationalize that if they can provide an experience that is beyond your expectations, then you will want to go back.
In a sense, this is a more accurate example than the Sony/boombox example. After all, a boombox is a tangible product. What Disney offers is a SERVICE - an intangible feeling of satisfaction and entertainment. One may argue that software is closer to a service - a means to get something done, instead of a tangible product.
Imagine what it would be like if Apple treated every customer as if they were REALLY important. Customer loyalty would be higher. People would be willing to pay more for Apple products. Apple's market share would be higher than 5% (or less).
Instead, Apple treats customers like they owe Apple. Steve Jobs didn't say one word of "thanks" to the customers in his audience today. He acknowledged the Apple employees. He bragged on Apple's products. But he never bragged on Apple customers. He missed a great opportunity.
You may not have heard of Tom Peters. He's a management consultant. He once said, "Without a stunning, sustainable service advantage, you can take your top quality product and shove it." Steve Jobs could benefit from Peters' advice.
Luca Rescigno compares Apple's product pricing to Microsoft Office - good example. Office sells for $369. Upgrades of Office sell for $225, about a 40% discount. I'm not asking for the program to be free (although Luca implies that I am). I'm just suggesting that a 10% or 20% discount is better customer service, a great way to keep customers and a good strategy.
By the way, calling me a "F*CKING DUMB*ASS!" really makes you sound ignorant. And the remark about Britney Spears has even less impact. I don't listen to her music, so I don't care.
Upgrade pricing is really only useful for software that has a very high point of entry price. Otherwise it's not really useful. I say Apple should charge $99, even without Garage Band, and $49 for an update. Make people feel like they're getting a good deal.
Even $99 is a steal. A high school student can afford that if they mow a few lawns.
When Steve was about to announce the price today, I thought to myself, "It's going to be $99," and was pleasantly surprised when it was half that.
Again, Apple's not robbing anyone blind with this. As has been mentioned, a lot of the cost is probably going toward licensing fees, and recovering some of the cost of the samples and loops that are in GarageBand (I imagine they were not free or cheap).
I'm thinking iPhoto's upgrade will still be free. My reasoning for this is because it has it's own built-in revenue stream with the photo prints and books. Like the iTMS, Apple's making money with features inside the software.
Perhaps the solution is for Apple to charge new buyers of iLife $49, and also provide an upgrade version for existing buyers which it can sell for something trivial - $50 perhaps (that seems to be the price of a lot of media-only "free" software packages. And you are getting some seriously upgraded software.)
Gosh. You make such a convincing argument. I don't know. Maybe I was wrong. But just for the sake of encouraging a little thought...
Do you remember going to Disney World? There was more there than you could enjoy in just one day. Surprises were around every corner. People treated you better than you had been treated before. Perhaps that wasn't your experience with Disney, but it is their intention. They rationalize that if they can provide an experience that is beyond your expectations, then you will want to go back.
In a sense, this is a more accurate example than the Sony/boombox example. After all, a boombox is a tangible product. What Disney offers is a SERVICE - an intangible feeling of satisfaction and entertainment. One may argue that software is closer to a service - a means to get something done, instead of a tangible product.
Imagine what it would be like if Apple treated every customer as if they were REALLY important. Customer loyalty would be higher. People would be willing to pay more for Apple products. Apple's market share would be higher than 5% (or less).
Instead, Apple treats customers like they owe Apple. Steve Jobs didn't say one word of "thanks" to the customers in his audience today. He acknowledged the Apple employees. He bragged on Apple's products. But he never bragged on Apple customers. He missed a great opportunity.
You may not have heard of Tom Peters. He's a management consultant. He once said, "Without a stunning, sustainable service advantage, you can take your top quality product and shove it." Steve Jobs could benefit from Peters' advice.
Luca Rescigno compares Apple's product pricing to Microsoft Office - good example. Office sells for $369. Upgrades of Office sell for $225, about a 40% discount. I'm not asking for the program to be free (although Luca implies that I am). I'm just suggesting that a 10% or 20% discount is better customer service, a great way to keep customers and a good strategy.
By the way, calling me a "F*CKING DUMB*ASS!" really makes you sound ignorant. And the remark about Britney Spears has even less impact. I don't listen to her music, so I don't care.
Sorry, everyone I know who works at Disneyland makes minimum wage and hates it there. Everyone else has been outsourced to India. (consultants suck). From what I can tell, any time a low level tech support hasn't memorized say, the voltage of every powerbook adapter ever made, they get lashed out at. At some companies *cough emachines, dell* they don't even even have to know what a computer is to get that job. Everyone whines about the pricing but we're already getting a lot more for it.
Another thing. When you buy Panther or iLife, that IS the upgrade price. The original version was INCLUDED with your Mac purchase.
I don't see what all the fuss is about. iLife is a great product suite, and GarageBand alone is worth $50 to many people. Like others have said, if you don't want it, don't buy it. And I wouldn't give up hope for iPhoto/iMovie to be posted as a free download on Jan 16th.
Come on people, we didn't buy macs to be cheap. We bought them for the great OS and great apps.
When you buy Panther or iLife, that IS the upgrade price. The original version was INCLUDED with your Mac purchase.
You know, that is an excellent point. I never thought of it like that.
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
I'm thinking iPhoto's upgrade will still be free. My reasoning for this is because it has it's own built-in revenue stream with the photo prints and books. Like the iTMS, Apple's making money with features inside the software.
The thing about that is, while I wish iPhoto were free, those orders go through Kodak, who probably get most of the sale, and I don't see any indication it's going to be a free download.
So everything will still be a free download besides iDVD right? Personally I can't wait for iPhoto 4. I find it curious they skipped "3". Ratings in iPhoto, NICE! The more it becomes like iTunes the better, iTunes sets the gold standard for library management of content. What's next, Smart Playlists of photos? (semi seriously)
Comments
Originally posted by bsharper
I wish people like you did not buy Macs.
You know, why not look at iLife as a boombox and Apple as Sony.
Say Sony has a boobox out for $49. It's a very nice boombox and does more than enough for the people who bought it. But, then Phillips and Panasonic come out with boomboxes that are also $49. And while not as good as the Sony boombox, they draw some level or attention away from the Sony. So, Sony introduces the 'B' version of their $49 boombox, and its even better than before, and does what it is supposed to do, which is help take back the attention that its competitors took away.
But what if you're an owner of the 'A' version of the boombox? It still does everything you want it to, and it works well, and was still great for the price. But now the 'B' is out... do you have to go run out and buy it you wonder? NO YOU DONT YOU ****!
So instead of pissing and moaning about your now obsolete Sony, go pop in that crappy Britney Spears that you love so much, and humm REALLY loud along with Britney until you forget about the fact that you are a ****!
IT"S A F***ING STEAL! I don't use iMovie(I use FCP) or iDVD(I use DVDSP) but I will sure as hell use GarageBand. That alone is worth $49. If they sold that as a standalone for $49, I am sure there are a loooooooot of people that would buy it.
iLife is a great suite for consumers. There is NOTHING on the PC that can compare, free or otherwise.
Everyone has made their points. If you don't want to pay then don't pay. I am sure no one will notice.
Also, as someone mentioned earlier, you bought iLife because you wanted iDVD right? If you don't use iDVD then you didn't need to buy it, because everything else was a freedownload. And even the first iLife was worth $49. Do you know how long it takes to create templates? It is a time consuming process. Also with the new iLife you get upgrades for all the apps, and a whole new program to boot. You aren't upgrading GarageBand, it is totally new.
Get over it man!
Originally posted by Pumpkintosh
I wish people like you did not buy Macs.
You know, why not look at iLife as a boombox and Apple as Sony.
Say Sony has a boobox out for $49. It's a very nice boombox and does more than enough for the people who bought it. But, then Phillips and Panasonic come out with boomboxes that are also $49. And while not as good as the Sony boombox, they draw some level or attention away from the Sony. So, Sony introduces the 'B' version of their $49 boombox, and its even better than before, and does what it is supposed to do, which is help take back the attention that its competitors took away.
But what if you're an owner of the 'A' version of the boombox? It still does everything you want it to, and it works well, and was still great for the price. But now the 'B' is out... do you have to go run out and buy it you wonder? NO YOU DONT YOU F*CKING DUMB*ASS!
So instead of pissing and whining about your now obsolete Sony, go pop in that crappy Britney Spears that you love so much, and humm REALLY load along with Britney until you forget about the fact that you are a ****!
Gosh. You make such a convincing argument. I don't know. Maybe I was wrong. But just for the sake of encouraging a little thought...
Do you remember going to Disney World? There was more there than you could enjoy in just one day. Surprises were around every corner. People treated you better than you had been treated before. Perhaps that wasn't your experience with Disney, but it is their intention. They rationalize that if they can provide an experience that is beyond your expectations, then you will want to go back.
In a sense, this is a more accurate example than the Sony/boombox example. After all, a boombox is a tangible product. What Disney offers is a SERVICE - an intangible feeling of satisfaction and entertainment. One may argue that software is closer to a service - a means to get something done, instead of a tangible product.
Imagine what it would be like if Apple treated every customer as if they were REALLY important. Customer loyalty would be higher. People would be willing to pay more for Apple products. Apple's market share would be higher than 5% (or less).
Instead, Apple treats customers like they owe Apple. Steve Jobs didn't say one word of "thanks" to the customers in his audience today. He acknowledged the Apple employees. He bragged on Apple's products. But he never bragged on Apple customers. He missed a great opportunity.
You may not have heard of Tom Peters. He's a management consultant. He once said, "Without a stunning, sustainable service advantage, you can take your top quality product and shove it." Steve Jobs could benefit from Peters' advice.
Luca Rescigno compares Apple's product pricing to Microsoft Office - good example. Office sells for $369. Upgrades of Office sell for $225, about a 40% discount. I'm not asking for the program to be free (although Luca implies that I am). I'm just suggesting that a 10% or 20% discount is better customer service, a great way to keep customers and a good strategy.
By the way, calling me a "F*CKING DUMB*ASS!" really makes you sound ignorant. And the remark about Britney Spears has even less impact. I don't listen to her music, so I don't care.
Even $99 is a steal. A high school student can afford that if they mow a few lawns.
Again, Apple's not robbing anyone blind with this. As has been mentioned, a lot of the cost is probably going toward licensing fees, and recovering some of the cost of the samples and loops that are in GarageBand (I imagine they were not free or cheap).
I'm thinking iPhoto's upgrade will still be free. My reasoning for this is because it has it's own built-in revenue stream with the photo prints and books. Like the iTMS, Apple's making money with features inside the software.
I'm pretty sure if you suggest it to them...
Originally posted by bsharper
Gosh. You make such a convincing argument. I don't know. Maybe I was wrong. But just for the sake of encouraging a little thought...
Do you remember going to Disney World? There was more there than you could enjoy in just one day. Surprises were around every corner. People treated you better than you had been treated before. Perhaps that wasn't your experience with Disney, but it is their intention. They rationalize that if they can provide an experience that is beyond your expectations, then you will want to go back.
In a sense, this is a more accurate example than the Sony/boombox example. After all, a boombox is a tangible product. What Disney offers is a SERVICE - an intangible feeling of satisfaction and entertainment. One may argue that software is closer to a service - a means to get something done, instead of a tangible product.
Imagine what it would be like if Apple treated every customer as if they were REALLY important. Customer loyalty would be higher. People would be willing to pay more for Apple products. Apple's market share would be higher than 5% (or less).
Instead, Apple treats customers like they owe Apple. Steve Jobs didn't say one word of "thanks" to the customers in his audience today. He acknowledged the Apple employees. He bragged on Apple's products. But he never bragged on Apple customers. He missed a great opportunity.
You may not have heard of Tom Peters. He's a management consultant. He once said, "Without a stunning, sustainable service advantage, you can take your top quality product and shove it." Steve Jobs could benefit from Peters' advice.
Luca Rescigno compares Apple's product pricing to Microsoft Office - good example. Office sells for $369. Upgrades of Office sell for $225, about a 40% discount. I'm not asking for the program to be free (although Luca implies that I am). I'm just suggesting that a 10% or 20% discount is better customer service, a great way to keep customers and a good strategy.
By the way, calling me a "F*CKING DUMB*ASS!" really makes you sound ignorant. And the remark about Britney Spears has even less impact. I don't listen to her music, so I don't care.
Sorry, everyone I know who works at Disneyland makes minimum wage and hates it there. Everyone else has been outsourced to India. (consultants suck). From what I can tell, any time a low level tech support hasn't memorized say, the voltage of every powerbook adapter ever made, they get lashed out at. At some companies *cough emachines, dell* they don't even even have to know what a computer is to get that job. Everyone whines about the pricing but we're already getting a lot more for it.
Another thing. When you buy Panther or iLife, that IS the upgrade price. The original version was INCLUDED with your Mac purchase.
When will I be able to go to my local Apple store and happily pay $29 for iLife '04?
Woah..I'm not getting involved in this one, since it doesn't involve me..only iTunes does..
Come on people, we didn't buy macs to be cheap. We bought them for the great OS and great apps.
Originally posted by Nebrie
Another thing. When you buy Panther or iLife, that IS the upgrade price. The original version was INCLUDED with your Mac purchase.
That is the BEST argument I've heard. Thank you.
Makes perfect sense. Since every purchase is an upgrade, there *is* no special price... you bought the package with the computer in the first place.
Originally posted by Nebrie
When you buy Panther or iLife, that IS the upgrade price. The original version was INCLUDED with your Mac purchase.
You know, that is an excellent point. I never thought of it like that.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
I'm thinking iPhoto's upgrade will still be free. My reasoning for this is because it has it's own built-in revenue stream with the photo prints and books. Like the iTMS, Apple's making money with features inside the software.
The thing about that is, while I wish iPhoto were free, those orders go through Kodak, who probably get most of the sale, and I don't see any indication it's going to be a free download.
Only iTunes will still be free.
And Smart Albums were introduced today for iPhoto.
Man that thing goes fast. Of course it's a G5.
It works "otto"mattically. The calendar stuff is awesome. "This is your life" going by! Awesome stuff.
Doesn't this belong in Digital Hub.
This belongs in Digital Hub. But there's already another thread there for this topic.
So, this one is getting the big old LOCK.
Carry on here: iPhoto & iMovie no longer free.