Uh, iMovie 2 was a paid upgrade, but iMove 3 was a free download last year.
Now that I think about it, I paid $49 just for iMovie 2, having to pay $49 for the entire iLife '04 package is not a bad deal at all.
y'know, the more i think about this reasoning, and how people are saying the ipod mini is reasonably priced "because the original ipod was way more expensive at the time" has to be some of the strangest logic i've ever seen. so, basically, apple has to come out with a tower for $10,000, then a year later, come out with a tower for the same market, but charge $5,000 and we'll say it's a deal? it's times like this where i really think steve has some of you hook, line, and sinker. (p.s. by the way, i'm not picking on you specifically, HOM. that line of thinking seems to be pervading rather rapidly and i'm just trying to yell out for someone's attention... ignore me)
wait, i got it... maybe apple should charge $1,000,000,000 for every copy of iphoto, with a $999,999,999 mail-in rebate. all they need is one person to forget!
yep, and no one around here will even care that they're not free anymore. just like when i pointed out that you still can't get safari without upgrading to panther (sure, there's more to panther than safari, but calling safari free anymore is inaccurate). that lil' point was met with silence and crickets.
Heh... noticed your next post... I think the new iPod's price is fine but say no more on it here, since I wrote my opinion on it on the poll page.
Anyway... I did not mention Safari before, since it did not nicely fit my i-argument. However, I agree with you completely. Even Microsoft does not charge for any copy of IE (besides Windows...j/k...kinda) it still supports. Now I know Apple does not sell Safari per say, but you cannot upgrade to the most recent version without buying Panther or begging for it from someone else. As far as I am aware, there is no reason the latest version needs Panther to function properly.
Now at least, you can feel better about not being met by only silence and crickets.
As far as I am aware, there is no reason the latest version needs Panther to function properly.
Now at least, you can feel better about not being met by only silence and crickets.
heh. thanks. sorry about my extra edits. hope it didn't change your opinion or post too much. as far as whether safari NEEDS panther to run, i'm going to give it a try, as i ned to revert to jaguar to run some software that's still buggy as hell under panther. i'll keep safari 1.1 kicking around on a separate drive and see if it still runs.
in an effort to keep from continually editing my previous post, here's a humorous stage set for apple a few years from now, based on there currrent trends...
steve: "for mac ox 10.7, aka "rabid tabby," we've made a finder that has so many incredible features that we are bundling it with our new iProstitute application for only $25. we certainly think that people will want to upgrade to this pussy for all the features it offers."
(okay, maybe i should now officially go to sleep...)
a lobster dinner for 2 for £35 ? god, americans get cheap food. the london food mafia seem to keep lobster (and scallop) prices racked excessively high
given the whole london lobster ripoff conspiracy, might have to buy the software instead.
is £35 a good deal for iLife? undoubtedly. new iPhoto essential, the others less so, but look to be fun new toys to play with. so am not crying over having to shell out some dosh.
you got me thinking about lobster now. mmmmmmm
(best lobster I've encountered so far was in Grenada. worst was in Sydney)
a lobster dinner for 2 for £35 ? god, americans get cheap food. the london food mafia seem to keep lobster (and scallop) prices racked excessively high
Red Lobster is a cheesy chain not quite as bad as Sizzler was, but still. If you pay $50 for two at Red Lobster, you paid about $15 too much...
I don't understand how there could be any real complaining about iLife's price if you plan on using at least 2 of the included programs.
Think about it, 4 programs for $50? That's $12.50 per program! That's nothing, especially when you consider the programs are iDVD, iMovie, GarageBand & iPhoto.
GarageBand alone is worth double the price. Adobe's photo album software alone costs $50, and you'd pay mega $$ for any software that can do what iMovie & iDVD do.
I think that iMovie, iDVD and GarageBand are more than worth the $49; I never use iMovie or iDVD and will happily pay just for GarageBand.
However, I will be very disappointed with Apple if they don't keep iPhoto as a free download. Like iTunes, it already has a built-in revenue stream (books & prints) that iMovie, iDVD and GarageBand lack. Plus, I'm not aware of any content-creation licensing fees that Apple must pay for iPhoto.
I just got my inlaws to switch, and the free included software was a big selling point. I don't look forward to the day when I say that they'll need to shell out another $50 just to update their iPhoto!
I just got my inlaws to switch, and the free included software was a big selling point. I don't look forward to the day when I say that they'll need to shell out another $50 just to update their iPhoto!
I think reasonable people can be expected to pay for software upgrades. It seems that the only company we expect free upgrades from is Apple. Plus iMovie and iPhoto make a perfect pair. If your in-laws want to make more advanced slide shows, making them in iMovie is child's play.
I don't look forward to the day when I say that they'll need to shell out another $50 just to update their iPhoto!
When will they need to update? The only time they'll need to is when they decide that the extra functionality is worth the $50 they'll pay. Till then they'll be fine.
When will they need to update? The only time they'll need to is when they decide that the extra functionality is worth the $50 they'll pay. Till then they'll be fine.
Too true.
It isn't so much that disagree with the concept of paying for software upgrades--I just want to stay on my inlaws' good sides! I'm one of those people who always keeps their software current, so it'll be hard not to recommend to them that they upgrade--and I feel personally responsible for all of their good/bad Mac experiences. So far, they're mostly good!
GarageBand alone is worth double the price. Adobe's photo album software alone costs $50, and you'd pay mega $$ for any software that can do what iMovie & iDVD do.
whoop-de-doo. and guess what, i don't disagree that garageband, idvd and imovie are worth far more than $50. i cheered with everyone else.
BUT
i don't have a video camera, and i am not a musician (i don't care what steve's statistics say). that knocks out idvd, imovie and garage band in one fell swoop. therefore, there are two pieces to the puzzle that i want. itunes, and iphoto.
itunes looks like it will be free for a while to drive ipod sales, so that leaves iphoto that i disagree with. 'course, if apple started making cameras again, they might make iphoto free again (though that hasn't seemed to prevent them from charging for ichatav separately, even if you buy an isight -- edit: and panther isn't even needed to run ichatav, so in essence, you paid more for panther to offset its inclusion).
just because the software is WORTH every penny doesn't mean i want it. i'm sure there are a lot of programs and such out there that are good values. but it doesn't mean that some folks need to pay a cover charge to other pieces of software just to get at another piece they want.
well, whatever. seems like some folks here will be more than willing to shell out $50 for the ilife bundle, and nothing i say here will convince you otherwise. the only good thing is that it seems apple hasn't pulled some bullsh!t tactic like making the previous version of iphoto incompatible with panther, so that means people can still use the old version if it still works just fine for them.
but don't say i didn't warn you if apple keeps up this process of bundling to add small but persistent revenue streams. need iCal 8 in order to sync your new ericcson phone? well, it's included FREE... with a new mac or os x.5. or it's bundled with ilife '05, because we feel it's integral to bringing all of these pieces together with you and your .mac account...which you'll need to buy for our reduced rate of $59, otherwise backup 3 and virex won't work. edit: or you'll want to get our extended applecare warranty for $300, just in case anything should go wrong and, now that we've axed 80% of our quality assurance testing to bring down the price, failure of some sort is almost guaranteed over the life of your computer.
appleinsider's search is really good, and i will not hesitate to call an "i told you so" if need be.
p.s. can we please stop talking about fuggin' red lobster?!?!?
Red Lobster? Do those places actually exist? I've never seen one in my entire life. Maybe there just aren't any in NH or MA?
well, with local seafood like we have it in New England, red lobsters dont work out. since there sh*t is all frozen crud. there was one in dartmouth, Ma once, it got blown away by local fresh stuff, and also Weathervain Restaraunt(seafood chain, but I think only in new england). I went to the red lobster once, food was overpriced, wasnt much selection, and they seem to be obsessed with cheese. almost every side dish had cheese in it(including the bread and potatoes) and their portions were tiny.
who was the bloke in the iLife video? the annoying one.
I'd pay $49 just to see him assaulted by a squad of rabid lobsters.
rok - sorry, still pondering lobsters 8 hours later. not only in a 'with garlic butter' way, but also in a 'how come they can live until 50 and show no signs of ageing?' way. the garlic butter thoughts are taking priority tho
You don't need to be a musician to use GarageBand (but it helps). If nothing else, you can create loops to play while you watch an iPhoto presentation or something.
These programs all come free with a computer purchase. If you want the newer version you have to pay. It's not that big a deal.
You do the same thing with OS X. The latest version comes with a new computer. This Fall if you want 10.4 you'll have to pay. If you don't want to upgrade, you're free to continue using the version that came with your computer. It's the same with iLife.
rok has a point - it can get annoying when Apple FORCES you to buy stuff in a bundle. First .mac, when most people would have loved to keep just their email account and nothing else. In fact, most people would have been content to pay a small percent of the .mac fee for a 5 MB email only account. Sure, .mac is still a good value for all the stuff you get, but if you don't use it, it doesn't figure into the value equation, making it a bad value for most people. Microsoft allows you to buy components of Office, and Macromedia allows you to buy components of Studio. Sure, the components usually cost 1/2 or 2/3 of the full price of the package, but if you'll only be using that one, it's a good deal.
Now, with iLife, the price is low enough from the start (just $49) that upgrade pricing or component pricing doesn't really make sense. I'm sure there are a number of people who will only buy it for one or two of the components. A single component price would have to be something like $29 ($19 educational).
I guess my point is that upgrade prices and single component prices are not "stupid" and people who bring them up are not "whining." However, they don't really fit with iLife because the price is so low to begin with that a drop in price will be barely noticeable to the consumer but it'll add up and hurt Apple. In the case of Panther, the price is borderline on being high enough that there could be a reasonable upgrade price ($79 or $99 or something), but since it's an OS there's no way it could be sold as individual components. I think it would be interesting if Apple offered upgrade CDs like the up-to-date discs, but in a nice box and available to anyone for $79 or something. I don't know if they should or if they will (really doubt the latter), but it is an interesting topic of conversation at least.
You don't need to be a musician to use GarageBand (but it helps). If nothing else, you can create loops to play while you watch an iPhoto presentation or something.
These programs all come free with a computer purchase. If you want the newer version you have to pay. It's not that big a deal.
You do the same thing with OS X. The latest version comes with a new computer. This Fall if you want 10.4 you'll have to pay. If you don't want to upgrade, you're free to continue using the version that came with your computer. It's the same with iLife.
well, yeah, and look at my post. i understand that. and in a way, i think i see what apple's trying to do these days. essentially, they know that
a.) most of the operating system is set, from here on out. they can keep optimizing and rewriting for the g5, but the days of the herculean effort of os 10.0 and 10.1 are over. now all they can do is improve interface elements, fix bugs from other areas (filevault, anyone?), add smaller functionality apps (ichat, safari, itunes) to sweeten the deal, and have the occassional whiz-bang idea like expose to drive sales,
and
b.) they know people would choke if they had to pay for all of this TOGETHER in a single operating system package, so they're breaking it out piecemeal, in the hopes that the consumers will be able to digest smaller chunks without complaint... or suspicion.
but i will say this -- if apple is going to insist that idvd be paid for (and i understand it's big, so it's not easily downloadable, but it could be broken up), they MUST make it usable for third-party dvd burners. there are TONS of people who don't get the superdrive at purchase, which, for now, has locked them into only using dvd studio pro (not likely for your average hobbyist or less) or bundled with another burner, and i have only heard so-so things about divideon, among others. (edit: by the way, if apple HAS snuck in third party or external drive support, it must've flown under my radar and i missed it.)
if nothing else, apple should at least support EXTERNAL versions of the same drive mechanism, as many will say "well, i'd like to buy ilife, and i have this pioneer external dvd burner drive, but it still won't work with idvd. i thought it was the same thing! darn!"
I thought I heard people saying that iDVD 4 would have support for external burners. After checking www.apple.com/ilife/idvd/ I'm not sure if that's true - at the bottom of the main page there's a small note that says "burning requires an Apple Superdrive."
However, you are able to use iDVD to work on a DVD project with one computer, archive it, and move it to another computer for burning. That's one of the new features listed - their example is if you take an iBook with you on a trip somewhere, you can work on the DVD project with it and then transfer it to your Superdrive-equipped computer back home for burning.
Comments
Originally posted by HOM
Uh, iMovie 2 was a paid upgrade, but iMove 3 was a free download last year.
Now that I think about it, I paid $49 just for iMovie 2, having to pay $49 for the entire iLife '04 package is not a bad deal at all.
y'know, the more i think about this reasoning, and how people are saying the ipod mini is reasonably priced "because the original ipod was way more expensive at the time" has to be some of the strangest logic i've ever seen. so, basically, apple has to come out with a tower for $10,000, then a year later, come out with a tower for the same market, but charge $5,000 and we'll say it's a deal? it's times like this where i really think steve has some of you hook, line, and sinker. (p.s. by the way, i'm not picking on you specifically, HOM. that line of thinking seems to be pervading rather rapidly and i'm just trying to yell out for someone's attention... ignore me)
wait, i got it... maybe apple should charge $1,000,000,000 for every copy of iphoto, with a $999,999,999 mail-in rebate. all they need is one person to forget!
Originally posted by rok
yep, and no one around here will even care that they're not free anymore. just like when i pointed out that you still can't get safari without upgrading to panther (sure, there's more to panther than safari, but calling safari free anymore is inaccurate). that lil' point was met with silence and crickets.
Heh... noticed your next post... I think the new iPod's price is fine but say no more on it here, since I wrote my opinion on it on the poll page.
Anyway... I did not mention Safari before, since it did not nicely fit my i-argument. However, I agree with you completely. Even Microsoft does not charge for any copy of IE (besides Windows...j/k...kinda) it still supports. Now I know Apple does not sell Safari per say, but you cannot upgrade to the most recent version without buying Panther or begging for it from someone else. As far as I am aware, there is no reason the latest version needs Panther to function properly.
Now at least, you can feel better about not being met by only silence and crickets.
Originally posted by Donny
As far as I am aware, there is no reason the latest version needs Panther to function properly.
Now at least, you can feel better about not being met by only silence and crickets.
heh. thanks. sorry about my extra edits. hope it didn't change your opinion or post too much. as far as whether safari NEEDS panther to run, i'm going to give it a try, as i ned to revert to jaguar to run some software that's still buggy as hell under panther. i'll keep safari 1.1 kicking around on a separate drive and see if it still runs.
steve: "for mac ox 10.7, aka "rabid tabby," we've made a finder that has so many incredible features that we are bundling it with our new iProstitute application for only $25. we certainly think that people will want to upgrade to this pussy for all the features it offers."
(okay, maybe i should now officially go to sleep...)
$49 is what, dinner for two at Red Lobster?
a lobster dinner for 2 for £35 ? god, americans get cheap food. the london food mafia seem to keep lobster (and scallop) prices racked excessively high
given the whole london lobster ripoff conspiracy, might have to buy the software instead.
is £35 a good deal for iLife? undoubtedly. new iPhoto essential, the others less so, but look to be fun new toys to play with. so am not crying over having to shell out some dosh.
you got me thinking about lobster now. mmmmmmm
(best lobster I've encountered so far was in Grenada. worst was in Sydney)
hang loose
--------------
London weather: pants
Now playing: Cannonball Adderley
Originally posted by Fran441
Red Lobster? Do those places actually exist? I've never seen one in my entire life. Maybe there just aren't any in NH or MA?
Are they similar to the KrustyKrab?
...he lives in a pineapple under the sea...SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS ....
Originally posted by Fran441
Red Lobster? Do those places actually exist? I've never seen one in my entire life. Maybe there just aren't any in NH or MA?
$25 per head at Red Lobster? Since when?!
Originally posted by brandnewfatboy
a lobster dinner for 2 for £35 ? god, americans get cheap food. the london food mafia seem to keep lobster (and scallop) prices racked excessively high
Red Lobster is a cheesy chain not quite as bad as Sizzler was, but still. If you pay $50 for two at Red Lobster, you paid about $15 too much...
Think about it, 4 programs for $50? That's $12.50 per program! That's nothing, especially when you consider the programs are iDVD, iMovie, GarageBand & iPhoto.
GarageBand alone is worth double the price. Adobe's photo album software alone costs $50, and you'd pay mega $$ for any software that can do what iMovie & iDVD do.
However, I will be very disappointed with Apple if they don't keep iPhoto as a free download. Like iTunes, it already has a built-in revenue stream (books & prints) that iMovie, iDVD and GarageBand lack. Plus, I'm not aware of any content-creation licensing fees that Apple must pay for iPhoto.
I just got my inlaws to switch, and the free included software was a big selling point. I don't look forward to the day when I say that they'll need to shell out another $50 just to update their iPhoto!
Originally posted by Fawkes
I just got my inlaws to switch, and the free included software was a big selling point. I don't look forward to the day when I say that they'll need to shell out another $50 just to update their iPhoto!
I think reasonable people can be expected to pay for software upgrades. It seems that the only company we expect free upgrades from is Apple. Plus iMovie and iPhoto make a perfect pair. If your in-laws want to make more advanced slide shows, making them in iMovie is child's play.
Originally posted by Fawkes
I don't look forward to the day when I say that they'll need to shell out another $50 just to update their iPhoto!
When will they need to update? The only time they'll need to is when they decide that the extra functionality is worth the $50 they'll pay. Till then they'll be fine.
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
When will they need to update? The only time they'll need to is when they decide that the extra functionality is worth the $50 they'll pay. Till then they'll be fine.
Too true.
It isn't so much that disagree with the concept of paying for software upgrades--I just want to stay on my inlaws' good sides!
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
GarageBand alone is worth double the price. Adobe's photo album software alone costs $50, and you'd pay mega $$ for any software that can do what iMovie & iDVD do.
whoop-de-doo. and guess what, i don't disagree that garageband, idvd and imovie are worth far more than $50. i cheered with everyone else.
BUT
i don't have a video camera, and i am not a musician (i don't care what steve's statistics say). that knocks out idvd, imovie and garage band in one fell swoop. therefore, there are two pieces to the puzzle that i want. itunes, and iphoto.
itunes looks like it will be free for a while to drive ipod sales, so that leaves iphoto that i disagree with. 'course, if apple started making cameras again, they might make iphoto free again (though that hasn't seemed to prevent them from charging for ichatav separately, even if you buy an isight -- edit: and panther isn't even needed to run ichatav, so in essence, you paid more for panther to offset its inclusion).
just because the software is WORTH every penny doesn't mean i want it. i'm sure there are a lot of programs and such out there that are good values. but it doesn't mean that some folks need to pay a cover charge to other pieces of software just to get at another piece they want.
well, whatever. seems like some folks here will be more than willing to shell out $50 for the ilife bundle, and nothing i say here will convince you otherwise. the only good thing is that it seems apple hasn't pulled some bullsh!t tactic like making the previous version of iphoto incompatible with panther, so that means people can still use the old version if it still works just fine for them.
but don't say i didn't warn you if apple keeps up this process of bundling to add small but persistent revenue streams. need iCal 8 in order to sync your new ericcson phone? well, it's included FREE... with a new mac or os x.5. or it's bundled with ilife '05, because we feel it's integral to bringing all of these pieces together with you and your .mac account...which you'll need to buy for our reduced rate of $59, otherwise backup 3 and virex won't work. edit: or you'll want to get our extended applecare warranty for $300, just in case anything should go wrong and, now that we've axed 80% of our quality assurance testing to bring down the price, failure of some sort is almost guaranteed over the life of your computer.
appleinsider's search is really good, and i will not hesitate to call an "i told you so" if need be.
p.s. can we please stop talking about fuggin' red lobster?!?!?
Originally posted by Fran441
Red Lobster? Do those places actually exist? I've never seen one in my entire life. Maybe there just aren't any in NH or MA?
well, with local seafood like we have it in New England, red lobsters dont work out. since there sh*t is all frozen crud. there was one in dartmouth, Ma once, it got blown away by local fresh stuff, and also Weathervain Restaraunt(seafood chain, but I think only in new england). I went to the red lobster once, food was overpriced, wasnt much selection, and they seem to be obsessed with cheese. almost every side dish had cheese in it(including the bread and potatoes) and their portions were tiny.
I'd pay $49 just to see him assaulted by a squad of rabid lobsters.
rok - sorry, still pondering lobsters 8 hours later. not only in a 'with garlic butter' way, but also in a 'how come they can live until 50 and show no signs of ageing?' way. the garlic butter thoughts are taking priority tho
hang loose
------------
London weather: pants
Now playing: Buckshot Lefounque
You don't need to be a musician to use GarageBand (but it helps). If nothing else, you can create loops to play while you watch an iPhoto presentation or something.
These programs all come free with a computer purchase. If you want the newer version you have to pay. It's not that big a deal.
You do the same thing with OS X. The latest version comes with a new computer. This Fall if you want 10.4 you'll have to pay. If you don't want to upgrade, you're free to continue using the version that came with your computer. It's the same with iLife.
Now, with iLife, the price is low enough from the start (just $49) that upgrade pricing or component pricing doesn't really make sense. I'm sure there are a number of people who will only buy it for one or two of the components. A single component price would have to be something like $29 ($19 educational).
I guess my point is that upgrade prices and single component prices are not "stupid" and people who bring them up are not "whining." However, they don't really fit with iLife because the price is so low to begin with that a drop in price will be barely noticeable to the consumer but it'll add up and hurt Apple. In the case of Panther, the price is borderline on being high enough that there could be a reasonable upgrade price ($79 or $99 or something), but since it's an OS there's no way it could be sold as individual components. I think it would be interesting if Apple offered upgrade CDs like the up-to-date discs, but in a nice box and available to anyone for $79 or something. I don't know if they should or if they will (really doubt the latter), but it is an interesting topic of conversation at least.
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
rok,
You don't need to be a musician to use GarageBand (but it helps). If nothing else, you can create loops to play while you watch an iPhoto presentation or something.
These programs all come free with a computer purchase. If you want the newer version you have to pay. It's not that big a deal.
You do the same thing with OS X. The latest version comes with a new computer. This Fall if you want 10.4 you'll have to pay. If you don't want to upgrade, you're free to continue using the version that came with your computer. It's the same with iLife.
well, yeah, and look at my post. i understand that. and in a way, i think i see what apple's trying to do these days. essentially, they know that
a.) most of the operating system is set, from here on out. they can keep optimizing and rewriting for the g5, but the days of the herculean effort of os 10.0 and 10.1 are over. now all they can do is improve interface elements, fix bugs from other areas (filevault, anyone?), add smaller functionality apps (ichat, safari, itunes) to sweeten the deal, and have the occassional whiz-bang idea like expose to drive sales,
and
b.) they know people would choke if they had to pay for all of this TOGETHER in a single operating system package, so they're breaking it out piecemeal, in the hopes that the consumers will be able to digest smaller chunks without complaint... or suspicion.
but i will say this -- if apple is going to insist that idvd be paid for (and i understand it's big, so it's not easily downloadable, but it could be broken up), they MUST make it usable for third-party dvd burners. there are TONS of people who don't get the superdrive at purchase, which, for now, has locked them into only using dvd studio pro (not likely for your average hobbyist or less) or bundled with another burner, and i have only heard so-so things about divideon, among others. (edit: by the way, if apple HAS snuck in third party or external drive support, it must've flown under my radar and i missed it.)
if nothing else, apple should at least support EXTERNAL versions of the same drive mechanism, as many will say "well, i'd like to buy ilife, and i have this pioneer external dvd burner drive, but it still won't work with idvd. i thought it was the same thing! darn!"
However, you are able to use iDVD to work on a DVD project with one computer, archive it, and move it to another computer for burning. That's one of the new features listed - their example is if you take an iBook with you on a trip somewhere, you can work on the DVD project with it and then transfer it to your Superdrive-equipped computer back home for burning.