Arrogant PhDs
The sensless jabbing between MDs and PhDs in medical research has always bothered me, but today something really got my goat. A glowing letter of recommendation for an MD/PhD applicant concluded with this sentence:
This is from an eminent structural biologist in Cambridge (England, not Mass., to my surprise). His view, obviously, is that any neanderthal can practice medicine, that there is clearly no intellectual challange in diagnosing and managing a person's disease, or saving his life. OK, maybe he's had some bad experiences with the NHS in England. But what a horrible, dishonorable thing to say.
I emphasize that he knew this letter was for an MD/PhD application, and must have known it would be seen by the medical school committee as well as the research MDs and physican scientists on the MD/PhD committee. We all did/are doing the MD thing for a reason, and not a single one of us would say it's easy, or a waste of our talent and intellectual capacity. Gawd what a jerk.
[/rant]
Edit: This is the same thing shortsighted jerks say about smart teachers: "What a waste, using that Ivy League degree to educate sixth graders". It's a blessing to society that bright people choose to do these jobs, often for poor reward.
Quote:
Her talent and intellectual capacity would be wasted in routine clinical practice.
Her talent and intellectual capacity would be wasted in routine clinical practice.
This is from an eminent structural biologist in Cambridge (England, not Mass., to my surprise). His view, obviously, is that any neanderthal can practice medicine, that there is clearly no intellectual challange in diagnosing and managing a person's disease, or saving his life. OK, maybe he's had some bad experiences with the NHS in England. But what a horrible, dishonorable thing to say.
I emphasize that he knew this letter was for an MD/PhD application, and must have known it would be seen by the medical school committee as well as the research MDs and physican scientists on the MD/PhD committee. We all did/are doing the MD thing for a reason, and not a single one of us would say it's easy, or a waste of our talent and intellectual capacity. Gawd what a jerk.
[/rant]
Edit: This is the same thing shortsighted jerks say about smart teachers: "What a waste, using that Ivy League degree to educate sixth graders". It's a blessing to society that bright people choose to do these jobs, often for poor reward.
Comments
Originally posted by Anders
May I ask where you got the sentence? Member of a review board?
I'm interviewing her.
(ie: don't take it out on her if she didn't display that attitude)
These are facts. Every MD/PhD has to sacrifice some of these talents. The writer of that letter has obviously not seen the clinical side of the student and perhaps cant comment on that.
Originally posted by Towel
The sensless jabbing between MDs and PhDs in medical research has always bothered me, but today something really got my goat. A glowing letter of recommendation for an MD/PhD applicant concluded with this sentence:
This is from an eminent structural biologist in Cambridge (England, not Mass., to my surprise). His view, obviously, is that any neanderthal can practice medicine, that there is clearly no intellectual challange in diagnosing and managing a person's disease, or saving his life. OK, maybe he's had some bad experiences with the NHS in England. But what a horrible, dishonorable thing to say.
I emphasize that he knew this letter was for an MD/PhD application, and must have known it would be seen by the medical school committee as well as the research MDs and physican scientists on the MD/PhD committee. We all did/are doing the MD thing for a reason, and not a single one of us would say it's easy, or a waste of our talent and intellectual capacity. Gawd what a jerk.
[/rant]
Edit: This is the same thing shortsighted jerks say about smart teachers: "What a waste, using that Ivy League degree to educate sixth graders". It's a blessing to society that bright people choose to do these jobs, often for poor reward.
One day a Medical teacher told me that my place was not in surgery but in medecine : "you are too intelligent for surgery". And the scary thing that he wasnt pulling my led : he was serious. That's the stupidiest thing that i ever heard during my medical studies.
Originally posted by billybobsky
there ARE a great deal of talents that would be wasted in a clinical setting for bright research scientists. by the same token there ARE a great deal of talents that would be wasted in a laboratory setting for bright clinical practitioners.
These are facts. Every MD/PhD has to sacrifice some of these talents. The writer of that letter has obviously not seen the clinical side of the student and perhaps cant comment on that.
It remind me an AJ Cronin book that i read in Christmas. Unfortunately i forget the english title. But this book dealt with this. However the heroe of the book shone in the two fields.
Originally posted by billybobsky
there ARE a great deal of talents that would be wasted in a clinical setting for bright research scientists. by the same token there ARE a great deal of talents that would be wasted in a laboratory setting for bright clinical practitioners.
Different fields require different talents, certainly. That which makes a good scientist wouldn't necessarily make a good clinician, nor a good lawyer or teacher.
That wasn't the implication of the letter-writer, though.
Anders: I belatedly realized you meant if I knew the context and accuracy of the sentence: yes, it's verbatim, and doesn't sound any better in context.
curiousburb: I'm sure it doesn't reflect attitude of the interviewee at all. I'm glad I read it a week ahead of time, so it can be fully out of my system before I see her. In a backhanded way, though, if it did... well, it wouldn't make a good fit for this program, but it would, in a way, make her a stronger applicant in general. The most important criteria for a long program like this is whether you'll finish it. You need people who really won't be satisifed (for whatever reason) just doing clinical medicine, or else they might be tempted to join the program just to get half of med school paid for, then drop out without finishing the PhD.
As a PhD that spends most of my time in the clinic ? it aint rocket science.
Originally posted by Scott
As a PhD that spends most of my time in the clinic ? it aint rocket science.
Mostly true, which is why so much routine clinical work is being passed off to NPs and PAs. 99% of the time the computer flies the plane. But that's not what you pay the pilot for, nor the doctor. You make a mistake, something goes wrong, people die. That MD means responsibility.
Do you think Monster.com has any listings like that?
Originally posted by Towel
Mostly true, which is why so much routine clinical work is being passed off to NPs and PAs. 99% of the time the computer flies the plane. But that's not what you pay the pilot for, nor the doctor. You make a mistake, something goes wrong, people die. That MD means responsibility.
Yea yea yea I know. You should write for ER.
The Dean of the med school, who used to be chairman of my department, reluctantly gave up his clinical practice after many many years as Dean. So where I am there's a respect for clinical practice. We don't have any MDs on staff that only do research. Can't say the same thing for the physicists. In our department no one could get away with it. Plus the best MDs are the ones that do the best research. Because they really know their shit.
Originally posted by Scott
Plus the best MDs are the ones that do the best research. Because they really know their shit.
Yup, yup, and yup. This is perceptively, utterly true. I work in a pediatric cardiology lab for a cute (yet brilliant) couple -- she's British, he's Italian; he's an MD, she's a PhD. But he has got to be the most brilliant mind I've ever encountered. Our area is in molecular genetics (congenital heart defects in early development), and he proposes things off the top of his head to remedy problems that some people may have been pondering for weeks.
Yup.
P.S. -- Towel: is this a senior in an undergraduate program applying to an MD/PhD program off the bat or someone already in graduate school?
My hat is totally off to you all.
I wouldn't look at that sentence as arrogance. I'd look it as a view through one person's perspective. Maybe?
Respectfully,
Aries 1B
BSME, BSEE, BSBA
Originally posted by Scott
PhDs are medical researchers. Having that contact with clinical practice is vital IMO.
eep. so not true. the first part not the second. nor should it be true,
i am pursuing the dual degrees separately partly because of the perception that hard science has no place in the clinic. it definitely is a bias that exists, but i think an active geologist physician can provide as much insight as a cell biologist physician if not more. and the same goes in reverse.
Originally posted by Scott
PhDs are medical researchers. Having that contact with clinical practice is vital IMO.
Not always true. I'm (going to be) a PhD in a medical center but our research will not be strictly medical. We'll be working with MDs, obviously, and they have their place but we are not working on the same things. PhDs are better equipped to do some things. And the same goes for MDs. And that's the way it should be.
Cheers
Scott
In the us, its 4 years of "formal" training -- 2 years of which are course work and 2 years of which are clinical. After that there is the residency and intership(s) where training is obtained in specific fields and the time for these programs is field dependent. so yes, a 6 year phd and a 2 year ma could be finishing up at the same time as an md gets their wings.